I don't know about Jolteon, I have always been extremely underwhelmed by it. I know I run a stall team, so obviously I don't have much of a problem with it, its just that if it is walled, its walled hard, not even by just Chansey and Blissey, but Celebi and other grass types aren't much effected by it, even Jirachi can kill it off with its weak Body Slam. I understand that it's speed and immunity to electric attacks can really mess with offensive teams, but outside of that, I don't see its amazing use.
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OU Stats (May 2013)
- Thread starter Nix_Hex
- Start date
- Status
Because it's relatively slow and takes team support usually to make it worthwhile. Outside of its SR weakness, it's also weak to mach punch and bullet punch, out sped by all other dragons bar dragonite, and has very few resistances to switch in on. Hone claws it has is also pretty weak compared sword dance and dragon dance, with the accuracy only really helping one that runs stone edge. A lot of players don't want to waste time building a team around Kyurem-B and would rather just run a dragon that can work with little to no support.
That being said, anything that doesn't resist its physical attacks is gonna get a dent put in it and breaks walls like there is no tomorrow. I think it could probably be a little higher, but it doesn't deserve a spot below 30 in my opinion.
Kyurem-B just needs steels out of the way to sweep. It's also bulky enough to tank a Bullet Punch or a Mach Punch if need be. Kyurem-B requires so little support its scary, so I don't know what you mean. It basically 2HKOs the entire unresisted metagame, and OHKO's the majority at that. You don't really need to build a team around Kyurem-B. It can wreck any team.
I think that if Lead Custap Skarmory were to catch on, Kyurem-B would start seeing more usage. A lot of steel types already take a pretty hefty chunk from a banded Outrage, and switching in on Rocks and a layer of spikes makes it a lot more difficult for them to consistently wall it.
Time for another round monthly comments.
| 4 | Dragonite | 17.23408% | 347029 | 16.178% | 271947 | 15.735% |
Anyone else say this is overrated? I mean getting an almost guaranteed setup turn with Multiscale is awesome and all, but I most DD sets are next to helpless against Air Balloon Heatran (Even if the balloon is broken, those that lack Earthquake are pretty helpless). And look how common Heatran is:
| 5 | Heatran | 16.58880% | 250528 | 11.679% | 205769 | 11.906% |
Speaking of Heatran, offensive SR sets are seriously underrated. With an Air Balloon, you can get a guaranteed KO or SR setup on Dragonite as well as Garchomp.
| 42 | Hydreigon | 5.42458% | 146210 | 6.816% | 114600 | 6.631% |
Glad to see this has risen a bit. I don't want this thing ruling UU.
| 45 | Hippowdon | 4.89209% | 74552 | 3.475% | 67167 | 3.886% |
Never realized before now that this was so low. It stops SpD Jirachi in its tracks
| 47 | Dugtrio | 4.78263% | 77649 | 3.620% | 62204 | 3.599% |
Don't care much if this goes to UU. Too many things force it out after it has killed something.
| 51 | Haxorus | 3.56976% | 96680 | 4.507% | 73397 | 4.247% |
This is probably gonna be tested if it is broken or not in UU soon. If it does, Choice Scarf might be its most common set, since base 97 Speed lets it kill a lot of UU threats. I still think its too broken for UU though.
| 52 | Tornadus | 3.18766% | 40692 | 1.897% | 31759 | 1.838% |
Come up already! OU is the place to be with your Hurricanes.
| 4 | Dragonite | 17.23408% | 347029 | 16.178% | 271947 | 15.735% |
Anyone else say this is overrated? I mean getting an almost guaranteed setup turn with Multiscale is awesome and all, but I most DD sets are next to helpless against Air Balloon Heatran (Even if the balloon is broken, those that lack Earthquake are pretty helpless). And look how common Heatran is:
| 5 | Heatran | 16.58880% | 250528 | 11.679% | 205769 | 11.906% |
Speaking of Heatran, offensive SR sets are seriously underrated. With an Air Balloon, you can get a guaranteed KO or SR setup on Dragonite as well as Garchomp.
| 42 | Hydreigon | 5.42458% | 146210 | 6.816% | 114600 | 6.631% |
Glad to see this has risen a bit. I don't want this thing ruling UU.
| 45 | Hippowdon | 4.89209% | 74552 | 3.475% | 67167 | 3.886% |
Never realized before now that this was so low. It stops SpD Jirachi in its tracks
| 47 | Dugtrio | 4.78263% | 77649 | 3.620% | 62204 | 3.599% |
Don't care much if this goes to UU. Too many things force it out after it has killed something.
| 51 | Haxorus | 3.56976% | 96680 | 4.507% | 73397 | 4.247% |
This is probably gonna be tested if it is broken or not in UU soon. If it does, Choice Scarf might be its most common set, since base 97 Speed lets it kill a lot of UU threats. I still think its too broken for UU though.
| 52 | Tornadus | 3.18766% | 40692 | 1.897% | 31759 | 1.838% |
Come up already! OU is the place to be with your Hurricanes.
I've actually been boned a couple of times by Toxic Jolteon. While it's true that Jolteon's counters hard-wall it, Jolteon is superb at luring them in as he poses an immediate offensive threat. This allows Jolteon to lure in Hippowdon, Latias, Gastrodon, Kyurem(-B), all of which hate Toxic. What do all of these counters have in common? They also wall Sub CM Jirachi. But with Toxic, they're put on a timer that allows Sub CM Jirachi to set up.
If Jolteon runs Signal Beam, Blissey and Chansey are the only Natural Cure users that can stand up to you (Roserade and Shaymin too I suppose).
If Jolteon runs Signal Beam, Blissey and Chansey are the only Natural Cure users that can stand up to you (Roserade and Shaymin too I suppose).
While I somewhat agree, some of these pokemon have niches in OU.
-Donphan is the most viable spinner for a sun team. Sun teams HAVE to have a spinner and the only other OU pokemon are starmie, forretress and tentacruel iirc and all of them suck under sun.
-Jolteon is an electric attack absorber on rain teams as well as a decent cleaner. Thunderus-t is always compared to him but jolteon has a few advantages such as having amazing speed right off the bat and no SR weakness (and better typing overall)
-Cloyster is dangerous when used right but there is always one pokemon on a team that will no be KOed and can counter back. Once that pokemon is gone, it is gg when cloyster sets up.
-I agree that conkeldurr (and possibly reuniclus but it shouldn't be UU either) shouldn't be OU. It was once a dominating pokemon but is now rather useless as many things can KO it.
-Vaporeon is an excellent tank in rain with rest, toxic and other moves. It also hits surprisingaly hard.
-Gastro's main niche is countering rain teams but it doesn't do that very well and has no other niche so I think it should drop. Interestingly, gastro is RU on PO.
-Metagross can drop. With 4MSS and no specific niche or reason to justify it's use, it shouldn't be OU.
^ forretress is great for sun teams; fire attacks are going to OHKO either way while an added water resist is nice. donphan is also a good choice too, but starmie resists fire / water while getting bolt/beam/psychic for attacks.
btw, how gyarados is #30 is beyond me; it gives sand teams grief w/ 1 DD, gets a boosted waterfall in rain and moxie allows it to steamroll teams w/ some speed.
it resists water, fighting (fuck you keldeo), fire, bug (you too volcarona), ground, fighting (RP lando) and steel (scizor). with just bounce and waterfall you hit all of the top 100 neutrally at worst except for rotom-W and empoleon.
being weak to electric and stealth rocks does suck, but it's a small price to pay for being awesome
btw, how gyarados is #30 is beyond me; it gives sand teams grief w/ 1 DD, gets a boosted waterfall in rain and moxie allows it to steamroll teams w/ some speed.
it resists water, fighting (fuck you keldeo), fire, bug (you too volcarona), ground, fighting (RP lando) and steel (scizor). with just bounce and waterfall you hit all of the top 100 neutrally at worst except for rotom-W and empoleon.
being weak to electric and stealth rocks does suck, but it's a small price to pay for being awesome
No no no no no no no. Conkeldurr is definitely OU viable. I JUST posted a RMT that features Lavos Spawn's Sheer Force set, and I've had tremendous success with it. What exactly makes you think a Pokémon with 3 fantastic abilities and a move pool that perfect complements those abilities doesn't deserve to be OU? It's decently bulky, extremely powerful, albeit very slow too, but I don't think that should keep it out of OU. I think it deserves to be right about where it is in the 1850 stats, not too high, but not bottom of the tier either, and certainly not UU.
Politoed |
+----------------------------------------+
| Raw count: 300511 |
| Avg. weight: 0.469229514644 |
+----------------------------------------+
| Abilities |
| Drizzle 99.497% |
| Water Absorb 0.476% |
| Damp 0.028%
sigh.
Scizor |
+----------------------------------------+
| Raw count: 374397 |
| Avg. weight: 0.467860793509 |
+----------------------------------------+
| Abilities |
| Technician 97.265% |
| Swarm 2.138% |
| Light Metal 0.597%
~23.5% x ~0.6% = ~0.14%
around 1 in every 715 people actually does this.
wut.
| Ninetales | +0.68239% |
| Politoed | -0.66308% |
Sun teams appear to be on their way up, probably due to Venusaur's immense sweeping capability. It's surprisingly easy for a sun team to knock out a rain team, as long as they are careful to keep Ninetales alive.
| 100 | Sigilyph | 0.84759% | 25572 | 1.192% | 19533 | 1.130% |
Why does no one realize Sigilyph's hidden potential? as long as it doesn't get roared out early on, it can single-handedly turn a game around. It gets pretty badly walled by Heatran and most Dark-types, but with enough Cosmic Powers, it's untouchable even by them.
Also, I find it interesting how Espeon's usage is significantly lower in the 1850 stats than in the OU stats.
+----------------------------------------+
| Raw count: 300511 |
| Avg. weight: 0.469229514644 |
+----------------------------------------+
| Abilities |
| Drizzle 99.497% |
| Water Absorb 0.476% |
| Damp 0.028%
sigh.
Scizor |
+----------------------------------------+
| Raw count: 374397 |
| Avg. weight: 0.467860793509 |
+----------------------------------------+
| Abilities |
| Technician 97.265% |
| Swarm 2.138% |
| Light Metal 0.597%
~23.5% x ~0.6% = ~0.14%
around 1 in every 715 people actually does this.
wut.
| Ninetales | +0.68239% |
| Politoed | -0.66308% |
Sun teams appear to be on their way up, probably due to Venusaur's immense sweeping capability. It's surprisingly easy for a sun team to knock out a rain team, as long as they are careful to keep Ninetales alive.
| 100 | Sigilyph | 0.84759% | 25572 | 1.192% | 19533 | 1.130% |
Why does no one realize Sigilyph's hidden potential? as long as it doesn't get roared out early on, it can single-handedly turn a game around. It gets pretty badly walled by Heatran and most Dark-types, but with enough Cosmic Powers, it's untouchable even by them.
Also, I find it interesting how Espeon's usage is significantly lower in the 1850 stats than in the OU stats.
Looking at the moveset stats..Politoed's teammates bug me.
Toxicroak isn't bad, but tornadus is better. under the rain, specced Tornadus is just about impossible
to shut down without a blob or a sand inducer. If you want to use
Dugtrio (who I really think is more of a pain to use than anything though, some people seem to see something good in it)
then the blobs and T-Tar are put away.
I don't see why Tornadus isn't the quintessential rain sweeper.
Toxicroak isn't bad, but tornadus is better. under the rain, specced Tornadus is just about impossible
to shut down without a blob or a sand inducer. If you want to use
Dugtrio (who I really think is more of a pain to use than anything though, some people seem to see something good in it)
then the blobs and T-Tar are put away.
First of all, take it easy, tiger. People using Damp Politoed and the like is simply the result of someone forgetting to alter their Pokemon's ability before taking their teams to battle. It happens to the best of us.
Secondly, no, Sigilyph sucks. Being walled by Heatran and Tyranitar is actually a pretty major downfall, and if you plan to just sit in front of them all damn day setting up Cosmic powers while they hit you, you're begging to get critted.
edit: I mean metal plate, not light metal... oops
Light metal Scizor a little popular for a few months during the very end of BW1 as one can fake out being choice band and actually be swords dance Scizor, yet still have the power to check things with bullet punch if need be. When a lot more teams were defensive, this was pretty dangerous.
I imagine those people are still hung up on the days of BW1.
Light metal Scizor a little popular for a few months during the very end of BW1 as one can fake out being choice band and actually be swords dance Scizor, yet still have the power to check things with bullet punch if need be. When a lot more teams were defensive, this was pretty dangerous.
I imagine those people are still hung up on the days of BW1.
| 41 | Kyurem-Black | 5.86561% | 104488 | 4.871% | 80293 | 4.646% |
the best physical dragon in OU shouldn't be this low. (Quote)
Kinda hard to be the best physical dragon in OU when you are weak to the two most powerful and common priority in the tier, scizor's bullet punch, and breloom's mach punch
the best physical dragon in OU shouldn't be this low. (Quote)
Kinda hard to be the best physical dragon in OU when you are weak to the two most powerful and common priority in the tier, scizor's bullet punch, and breloom's mach punch
And yet it manages it. It can actually survive both at full health, and behind a sub its irrelevant. It would probably be Uber if it was Dragon/Electric like Zekrom, even if its Ice typing is great offensively. I wouldn't even call Kyurem-B a physical dragon. It's mixed sets are by far and away its best.
breloom can only revenge kill when kyurem isn't behind a sub, has no way of getting in on it. scizor I think is a 2hko on fusion bolt, not sure but also will lose a huge chunk if switching in
Besides you could say the same thing about terrakion lol, doesn't mean he isn't great
Every pokemon has checks and counters. Jellicent completely shuts down most Keldeo sets with ease. Any pokemon that lacks a dark typing or immunity to burn paired with resistance (see: any OU pokemon other than Tyranitar, Hydreigon or Heatran) can do very little to Sigilyph once it gets a few Cosmic Powers. Even Hydreigon can be taken down with burn as long as it doesn't have Leftovers.
P.S. Sigilyph also pairs really well with Tyranitar, as it's immune to ground-type attacks and shrugs off even the most powerful of fighting-type attacks.
Problem is, Sigilyph isn't bulky enough to take attacks without at least two boosts. Just about anything that hits you super effectively will KO you even at +1, since you won't be able to survive a second attack in order to Roost. Things like Thundurus-T, Alakazam, Gengar, Jolteon, Kyurem-B, and Terrakion can all 2HKO you easily since they all outspeed you too. It just doesn't get enough to set up to +2 or +3, where it really starts getting scary. Even if it does get to +3 or higher, then you're just begging the crit on things like Hydreigon or even Burned Tyranitar's Crunch. I just don't think it's a very viable strategy.
By nooo means is Kyurem-B the best physical dragon... it has a shallow movepool and a low speed for the tier... it is a good wallbreaker and thats about it
Have you actually used it? Speed isn't an issue for something so bulky and that forces so many switches, giving it Sub opportunities. It's not a good wallbreaker, it and Hydreigon are easily the best wallbreakers. It may have a shallow movepool, but by no means is it bad, as it has Outrage, Dragon Claw, Draco Meteor, Hone Claws, Dragon Tail, Fusion Bolt, Ice Beam, Earth Power and any Hidden Power of choice. It's just begging to go mixed. Note that its base Special Attack is only 10 lower than dedicated special attacker Latios, considered the pinnacle of special dragons. It also couldn't give a shit about weather, its only drawback being the weaker HP Fire in rain and Sandstorm damage. It's also faster than Dragonite, so speed is clearly not a problem. Dragonite and Salamence are both SR weak too. Both and Garchomp are easily felt with by Mamoswine. Bulky Kyurem-B sets avoid the OHKO from CB Bullet Punch and LO Mach Punch from Scizor and Breloom, even after SR. Speaking of which, bulky shuffler Kyurem-B is amazing.
You are confusing Light Metal, and ability and Metal Plate, an item.
Light Metal halves weight and is practically useless.
Actually, Burned Tyranitar's crunch does around 60% on a crit. Stone edge does about 75%. I can roost off the damage and settle back into Cosmic Power with ease. (Not to mention that roost takes away Sigilyph's Flying type, along with its weakness to Rock.) As for the rest, as long as I come in on something like Breloom which cannot hurt me no matter how hard it tries, burn comes very quickly, and cosmic powers come next. At least in my experience, it has been extremely useful as a physical wall.
Unless, of course, you come across someone stupid enough to use grass knot on Scizor.
I'm bored so here's some observations:
1 | Scizor | 23.48928% | 374397 | 17.454% | 298017 | 17.243% |
Whenever will this guy be dethroned? I mean, he's good and all, but I'm seriously getting tired of seeing these guys on so many teams. I also don't like playing with him, but eh, I like (semi)stall so what do I know. Either way, I hope Gen 6 will bring a Ghost/Steel type to wall mons like Scizor.
2 | Ferrothorn | 19.98081% | 354342 | 16.519% | 306123 | 17.712% |
I find it funny how such a defensive mon manages to be #2 on the usage stats in an offensive metagame. He deserves it though, he's really fucking good.
4 | Dragonite | 17.23408% | 347029 | 16.178% | 271947 | 15.735% |
Multiscale's not this good, people. Once it's broken you'd rather have Salamence on your side, and Salamence is "only" #21. Mence is faster and can do massive damage in tandem with Moxie. And yes, I know you can spin SR away or simply bounce them back with other mons in order to keep Dragonite's Multiscale in tact, but then again, people can use spinblockers (Jellicent is really great in this meta) or, in the second case, they can just throw any random physical attack around in order to kill an incoming Espeon. I have never been swept by Dragonite but I have lost a few times against Mence, so I ask you: What justifies Dragonite's #4 position anyway?
9 | Breloom | 13.40895% | 253146 | 11.801% | 200615 | 11.608% |
Please stop using this. Please.
28 | Landorus | 8.37818% | 99112 | 4.620% | 77278 | 4.471% |
Do people even realise just how deadly this guy is?
30 | Gyarados | 7.16588% | 156141 | 7.279% | 125017 | 7.234% |
Still too high if you ask me. Seriously, he has to rely on Bounce for a secondary stab. Not only that but I'd much rather just use Salamence or Dragonite for a DD sweeper. I don't really get Gyarados but ok.
36 | Donphan | 6.56819% | 111487 | 5.197% | 94016 | 5.440% |
39 | Cloyster | 6.27523% | 222173 | 10.357% | 173834 | 10.058% |
48 | Gastrodon | 4.39748% | 76650 | 3.573% | 62620 | 3.623% |
49 | Metagross | 4.29466% | 137071 | 6.390% | 111183 | 6.433% |
Let them rot in UU/BL please. Donphan's severly outclassed by Forretress in almost any situation (not to mention Starmie and Tentacruel, who play differently but are also way better), Cloyster barely manages to kill anything as far as I've seen them around (or maybe people just use them the wrong way), I always found Gastrodon to be outclassed by anythign with Water Absrob because outside of Storm Drain, Gastrodon is pretty mediocre and Metagross has no real distinguishable niche that he can do better than anything else in the tier.
110 | Meloetta | 0.67832% | 17638 | 0.822% | 13829 | 0.800% |
Meloetta's better than that, right?
E: Oh, and why won't Hippowdon get a better ranking for once? He's no worse than Tyraniar in my book.
1 | Scizor | 23.48928% | 374397 | 17.454% | 298017 | 17.243% |
Whenever will this guy be dethroned? I mean, he's good and all, but I'm seriously getting tired of seeing these guys on so many teams. I also don't like playing with him, but eh, I like (semi)stall so what do I know. Either way, I hope Gen 6 will bring a Ghost/Steel type to wall mons like Scizor.
2 | Ferrothorn | 19.98081% | 354342 | 16.519% | 306123 | 17.712% |
I find it funny how such a defensive mon manages to be #2 on the usage stats in an offensive metagame. He deserves it though, he's really fucking good.
4 | Dragonite | 17.23408% | 347029 | 16.178% | 271947 | 15.735% |
Multiscale's not this good, people. Once it's broken you'd rather have Salamence on your side, and Salamence is "only" #21. Mence is faster and can do massive damage in tandem with Moxie. And yes, I know you can spin SR away or simply bounce them back with other mons in order to keep Dragonite's Multiscale in tact, but then again, people can use spinblockers (Jellicent is really great in this meta) or, in the second case, they can just throw any random physical attack around in order to kill an incoming Espeon. I have never been swept by Dragonite but I have lost a few times against Mence, so I ask you: What justifies Dragonite's #4 position anyway?
9 | Breloom | 13.40895% | 253146 | 11.801% | 200615 | 11.608% |
Please stop using this. Please.
28 | Landorus | 8.37818% | 99112 | 4.620% | 77278 | 4.471% |
Do people even realise just how deadly this guy is?
30 | Gyarados | 7.16588% | 156141 | 7.279% | 125017 | 7.234% |
Still too high if you ask me. Seriously, he has to rely on Bounce for a secondary stab. Not only that but I'd much rather just use Salamence or Dragonite for a DD sweeper. I don't really get Gyarados but ok.
36 | Donphan | 6.56819% | 111487 | 5.197% | 94016 | 5.440% |
39 | Cloyster | 6.27523% | 222173 | 10.357% | 173834 | 10.058% |
48 | Gastrodon | 4.39748% | 76650 | 3.573% | 62620 | 3.623% |
49 | Metagross | 4.29466% | 137071 | 6.390% | 111183 | 6.433% |
Let them rot in UU/BL please. Donphan's severly outclassed by Forretress in almost any situation (not to mention Starmie and Tentacruel, who play differently but are also way better), Cloyster barely manages to kill anything as far as I've seen them around (or maybe people just use them the wrong way), I always found Gastrodon to be outclassed by anythign with Water Absrob because outside of Storm Drain, Gastrodon is pretty mediocre and Metagross has no real distinguishable niche that he can do better than anything else in the tier.
110 | Meloetta | 0.67832% | 17638 | 0.822% | 13829 | 0.800% |
Meloetta's better than that, right?
E: Oh, and why won't Hippowdon get a better ranking for once? He's no worse than Tyraniar in my book.
*Cracks knuckles*
Ok, so please explain to me why people should be using Breloom less. It has an effective OHKO move in Spore, has Technician boosted Mach Punch, can sweep with it at +2 against weakened teams, and doesn't have a hard time setting up on whatever it puts asleep, it can absolutely destroy its counters with the Fight Gem Focus Punch set, which I've seen a lot more of on the ladder recently (I myself used a team that features it, and had great success with it). Seriously, do you think it's stopped by Dragonite, Salamence, Lati@s, Celebi, and Skarmory? Wrong. You switch in on a Fight Gem boosted Focus Punch and all of those things will die to the Mach Punch that follows, plus you already lost something to Spore. That's two Pokémon gone, right there. And once your Celebi goes down, what are you going to use to stop a Landorus sweep? That's right, nothing. Breloom demolishes walls with that set, and clears the way for other Pokémon to sweep.
And Gyarados? Are you kidding me? Gyarados's Sub DD set is absolutely terrifying. There's one thing that resists Water/Flying coverage in OU, and that's Rotom-W. But Rotom-W only usually runs Volt Switch, which means Gyarados can keep setting up a sub and there's nothing you can do to stop it. You'll just keep switching out and be unable to continue to switch in, because after a few Waterfalls, you'll die. It also is one of the best offensive checks to Keldeo and Landorus, which are the best special attackers in the tier. Gyarados should be higher, imo.
EDIT: Oh ok, sorry for misunderstanding your meaning. I just get really defensive with Breloom :P
- Status