Zapdos (BW2 Revamp)

[relaunched]

I'm fine with everything you chose to keep below "Also" in the above post, but you neglected to make many of my changes that you should've made. For one, I'm supposed to make so-called subjective changes because I am a member of the Grammar and Prose Team. Second of all, some of the changes you apparently regarded as "subjective" weren't at all, resulting in the retention of ungrammatical phrases. For instance, you had:

The only chance that Zapdos has of being used offensively is to take advantage of its better bulk and access to Heat Wave and Roost.

Which I changed to:

Zapdos is an appropriate offensive choice only if you take advantage of its better bulk and access to Heat Wave and Roost.

This may seem like an involved change, but it was necessary because of your sentence structure, with the construction "chance...to take advantage". "Chance" is a noun, while "take advantage" is a verb, so your original sentence is bad. The sentence also didn't look easily fixable, so I thought for awhile to make this new sentence. If you prefer a different sort of construction, feel free to think on it yourself, but what you currently have doesn't make sense.

Please make the changes I suggested. Some are somewhat subjective, but they're based on what, in my experience, is pleasing to readers, and also on George Orwell's Style Guide. If you still dislike many of my changes, I would be happy to add to this thread comments explaining each non-trivial change I made à la the example I gave above.

 

[Vert]

Offensive ; Set Comments

By virtue of the above, Zapdos can check many dangerous offensive Pokemon that Thundurus-T can't, such as Scizor, Breloom, Landorus, and Tornadus, all the while being very hard to switch into thanks to its good power and coverage.

 

[alexwolf]

relaunched, just to clarify, subjectivity wasn't the sole reason i didn't add some of your corrections. I know that you are a GP check member and i know what this means. As i already said, i was on irc and talking with other GP members, and everything that wasn't implemented was done after consulting them. Now if there are still issues i am fine with correcting them. Other than the sentence which you mentioned, is there anything else that you thing is wrong?

And thx Vertex, fixed.

 

[Jukain]

I highly recommend adding ALL of relaunched's changes; each one of them is 100% right and improves the writing.

 

[relaunched]

Other than the sentence which you mentioned, is there anything else that you thing is wrong?

Well obviously I thought all the changes I made that you didn't comment on are better than what you have right now, as I wouldn't have otherwise made them in the first place. I will comment on all of the changes and explain why they are good, for the most part. There were a couple changes I made that you were fine or even better off not making, and I also mention those.


Sentence: "In the defensive...team reliant."

Why I changed this sentence: I changed the sentence structure because "Defensively" says the same thing as "In the defensive department", but shorter, just as I changed "In the offensive department" to "Offensively" earlier in the edit. This is why you should change your sentence to mine. You could use "team reliant" as opposed to "reliant on Rapid Spin" if you REALLY want to, but why? I don't mind using a couple other words for more clarity, even if people will usually understand.

Sentence: "Thanks to its...anti-rain Pokemon."

Why I changed this sentence: I didn't want you to use "good" three times. Changing "good" to "favorable" was an easy fix, and so was removing your "good" from "good coverage". Zapdos's good coverage doesn't make it a good anti-rain Pokemon, its coverage does, period. It could have two attacks that do well against Steels, Grasses and Waters, and had terrible coverage on everything else, and still be a good anti-rain Pokemon, so good is superfluous here.

Sentence: "Thunderbolt is a...better pivot."

Why I changed this sentence: Your sentence makes it sound like Thunderbolt and Volt Switch are actually different types. Obviously they aren't, but if I didn't know what types they were, I would assume that from your sentence structure. My variation explains that Zapdos wants an Electric move in this slot, and ascribes all the advantages of Electric-type moves, rather than just to Thunderbolt, as your variation does. Then, it compares the differences between Thunderbolt and Volt Switch, rather than making it seem like Volt Switch doesn't do well against the Water-types all around the tier. It doesn't do AS WELL as Thunderbolt, but you can't say it doesn't do well, especially when it allows you to switch out to another Pokemon you almost surely have that does well against Water-types.

(Partial) Sentence: "Expert Belt...Stealth Rock"

Why I changed this: You can't say it OHKOs max HP Jellicent, e.g., because I calced this and it doesn't OHKO max HP Specially Defensive Jellicent, which is indeed a max HP Jellicent. You can say Zapdos OHKOs physically defensive variants of these Pokemon though, because physically defensive variants of Politoed, Tentacruel, and Jellicent invariably run max HP.

I guess I'm OK with your formation of the Thundurus-T sentence. It sounds a bit awkward in your variant to me, and I don't think mine does much worse w/r/t content, but w/e.

Sentence: "U-Turn...recommended."

Why I changed this: You did my removal, but instead just made the sentence a clunkier form of your own. I would much prefer you keep the old sentence you had to using the sentence you have now. However, you don't even need "usually." "Recommended" already tones this down enough. The use of the word "recommended" suggests that you would advise against using Roost, but not that it's always bad. The word is fairly strong, but not absolute, so you don't need the "usually".

I suggested saying that Pressure "speeds up" PP Stalling, but I'm not sure that makes sense. I don't really like "allows" that much either though. Maybe something in between? You can use either, really, but if you come up with a good in-between phrase, I encourage you to change it to that.

Sentence: "While Agility...or Heat Wave"

Why I changed the sentence: Movesets with slashes in them are ugly and confusing when typed as plaintext. My formation retains everything you said in yours while being much easier to read. The other reasons were that the ...and...or...and.... construction was a little clumsy, and that you don't really need to mention coverage moves, as the main draw of such a set is Agility.

Sentence: "Hidden Power Grass...otherwise."

Why I changed the sentence: Mamoswine clearly isn't a Zapdos counter. It's a check at best, but it definitely gives Zapdos problems. When you take in to account that Gastrodon is a counter to Zapdos lacking HP Grass, and counters invariably give the Pokemon they counter problems, there is nothing wrong with my sentence, whereas your sentence states something that is wrong. Also, you wouldn't want to remove Mamoswine from the sentence because it's obviously relevant to the use of HP Grass.

 

[alexwolf]

Well obviously I thought all the changes I made that you didn't comment on are better than what you have right now, as I wouldn't have otherwise made them in the first place. I will comment on all of the changes and explain why they are good, for the most part. There were a couple changes I made that you were fine or even better off not making, and I also mention those.

I understand that you made all those changes for the best, what i am asking for you is to tell me if there is anything that i didn't change or changed in something else than you aksed for, and which of those changes you have a problem with. I trust you as a GP checker, and this is why i don't want you to explain to me every change you make, only changes that we seem to disagree about.

So, far i changed the sentence in the overview, which you told me to in your first post in the second page of this thread, so i am waiting for you to point out anything else that you would like to see changed.

 

[relaunched]

I understand that you made all those changes for the best, what i am asking for you is to tell me if there is anything that i didn't change or changed in something else than you aksed for, and which of those changes you have a problem with. I trust you as a GP checker, and this is why i don't want you to explain to me every change you make, only changes that we seem to disagree about.

So, far i changed the sentence in the overview, which you told me to in your first post in the second page of this thread, so i am waiting for you to point out anything else that you would like to see changed.

Didn't I just do that? Those were all the places I found where you didn't change what I suggested. Thus I explained all of them. I did not explain changes that you made.

 

[Jukain]

you can't abbreviate Hidden Power as HP; see in checks and counters.

 

[alexwolf]

Sentence: "In the defensive...team reliant."

Why I changed this sentence: I changed the sentence structure because "Defensively" says the same thing as "In the defensive department", but shorter, just as I changed "In the offensive department" to "Offensively" earlier in the edit. This is why you should change your sentence to mine. You could use "team reliant" as opposed to "reliant on Rapid Spin" if you REALLY want to, but why? I don't mind using a couple other words for more clarity, even if people will usually understand.

This is already implemented. I also didn't go in details to mention spin support, because i do so in the AC of each set.

Sentence: "Thanks to its...anti-rain Pokemon."

Why I changed this sentence: I didn't want you to use "good" three times. Changing "good" to "favorable" was an easy fix, and so was removing your "good" from "good coverage". Zapdos's good coverage doesn't make it a good anti-rain Pokemon, its coverage does, period. It could have two attacks that do well against Steels, Grasses and Waters, and had terrible coverage on everything else, and still be a good anti-rain Pokemon, so good is superfluous here.

Changed the first good to wide. Also, Zapdos is an anti-rain Pokemon because it gets Electric-STAB and has good coverage. Rain teams are very versatile and can follow many structures, so in order to constantly trouble them you need to have good coverage.

Sentence: "Thunderbolt is a...better pivot."

Why I changed this sentence: Your sentence makes it sound like Thunderbolt and Volt Switch are actually different types. Obviously they aren't, but if I didn't know what types they were, I would assume that from your sentence structure. My variation explains that Zapdos wants an Electric move in this slot, and ascribes all the advantages of Electric-type moves, rather than just to Thunderbolt, as your variation does. Then, it compares the differences between Thunderbolt and Volt Switch, rather than making it seem like Volt Switch doesn't do well against the Water-types all around the tier. It doesn't do AS WELL as Thunderbolt, but you can't say it doesn't do well, especially when it allows you to switch out to another Pokemon you almost surely have that does well against Water-types.

I don't like intros for attacking types as they just sound too generic and unneeded. But, on the other hand, the problem you mentioned exists, so we should find another solution.

(Partial) Sentence: "Expert Belt...Stealth Rock"

Why I changed this: You can't say it OHKOs max HP Jellicent, e.g., because I calced this and it doesn't OHKO max HP Specially Defensive Jellicent, which is indeed a max HP Jellicent. You can say Zapdos OHKOs physically defensive variants of these Pokemon though, because physically defensive variants of Politoed, Tentacruel, and Jellicent invariably run max HP.

I guess I'm OK with your formation of the Thundurus-T sentence. It sounds a bit awkward in your variant to me, and I don't think mine does much worse w/r/t content, but w/e.

Ok done.

Sentence: "U-Turn...recommended."

Why I changed this: You did my removal, but instead just made the sentence a clunkier form of your own. I would much prefer you keep the old sentence you had to using the sentence you have now. However, you don't even need "usually." "Recommended" already tones this down enough. The use of the word "recommended" suggests that you would advise against using Roost, but not that it's always bad. The word is fairly strong, but not absolute, so you don't need the "usually".

Ok changed.

I suggested saying that Pressure "speeds up" PP Stalling, but I'm not sure that makes sense. I don't really like "allows" that much either though. Maybe something in between? You can use either, really, but if you come up with a good in-between phrase, I encourage you to change it to that.

Already changed this to yours.

Sentence: "While Agility...or Heat Wave"

Why I changed the sentence: Movesets with slashes in them are ugly and confusing when typed as plaintext. My formation retains everything you said in yours while being much easier to read. The other reasons were that the ...and...or...and.... construction was a little clumsy, and that you don't really need to mention coverage moves, as the main draw of such a set is Agility.

They may be ugly and confusing but they are sometimes necessary. The way you wrote it made it even more confusing and also you neglected to talk about Roost at all. If you implied the use of Roost when saying ''tank'' then you still got it wring, as Baton Pass is not supposed to be used with Baton Pass usually.

Sentence: "Hidden Power Grass...otherwise."

Why I changed the sentence: Mamoswine clearly isn't a Zapdos counter. It's a check at best, but it definitely gives Zapdos problems. When you take in to account that Gastrodon is a counter to Zapdos lacking HP Grass, and counters invariably give the Pokemon they counter problems, there is nothing wrong with my sentence, whereas your sentence states something that is wrong. Also, you wouldn't want to remove Mamoswine from the sentence because it's obviously relevant to the use of HP Grass.

Ok done.

 

[relaunched]

I don't like intros for attacking types as they just sound too generic and unneeded. But, on the other hand, the problem you mentioned exists, so we should find another solution.

Already changed this to yours.

They may be ugly and confusing but they are sometimes necessary. The way you wrote it made it even more confusing and also you neglected to talk about Roost at all. If you implied the use of Roost when saying ''tank'' then you still got it wring, as Baton Pass is not supposed to be used with Baton Pass usually.

First thing I understand. One thing you could do is make my deletions in that area but instead of adding the sentence "Electric moves have great neutral coverage in OU, while hitting the the Water-types that are everywhere." before talking about Thunderbolt vs. Volt Switch you could use "A STAB move is essential on Zapdos, taking advantage of Electric's great neutral coverage in OU, and you have two options."

Second one yeah, I know. I was just commenting that I thought my change didn't really seem better than what you had originally, and there is probably a better way to state the Pressure stalling part than either of us came up with.

Third one, I see how my change doesn't work. I still don't like the weird slashes, so how about instead of:

"blend of sweeper and tank with an Agility set, and even use Baton Pass with this to support the team"

You use:

"sweeper with an Agility set, using either Roost to become a tanking sweeper of Baton Pass to become a supporting sweeper."

The reason I don't think you need the slashes is that Thunderbolt + coverage move is pretty obvious on such a set, and the main thing to highlight here is that Zapdos can use Agility, and can go two directions with an Agility set.

 

[alexwolf]

Ok fixed both issues, so after relaunched checks this out it should be ready for upload!

 

[blarajan]

uploading