Gen V SKY BATTLES: KACAW

[Darknesscrusher]

Why ban Ubers?

Also: Is Soul Dew banned?

 

[bobbyvaporeon]

Why ban Ubers?

Because they're Ubers.

 

[Mizuhime]

Why ban Ubers?

Also: Is Soul Dew banned?

cause rayquaza would 1hko the whole tier after a DD
soul dew is most likely banned because it's broken as shit even in ubers


Choice scarf zapdos wrecks shit
and eats children

 

[toxicroaker]

Choice scarf zapdos wrecks shit
and eats children

 

[b2j135]

I like your decisions Qwilphish, but I think this is more of a better change for this new type of play.

Here is what I have come up with right now, remember this is unofficial until Pokemon X/Y is out or the developers release the information on how it REALLY will work.

Sky Battle ruleset
by Qwilphish & b2j135

Weather is banned as a whole (too overpowered at the moment)
Entry Hazards are banned (their pointless and SR really holds back A LOT of Pokemon)
ONLY part Flying type Pokemon
or Pokemon with the ability Levitate
are allow to play. (This is officially from X/Y itself)
Air Balloon holding Pokemon do not count. (For now)

Banned Moves:
Stealth Rock
Spikes
Toxic Spikes
Gravity
Smack Down
Skill Swap
Entrainment
Gastro Acid
Simple Beam
Worry Seed
*Sky Drop (not sure how this would work in the real game so it's here for now)
Rain Dance
Sandstorm
Sunny Day
Hail

Once again, THIS IS UNOFFICIAL and will probably change as Sky Battling becomes more popular or until official release. Let me know what you guys think. Also I will be uploading more Sky Battles on my channel this week, I'll link it here once there up.

Also I made this sweet art for the metagame, could you post this to your OP Qwilphish?

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[Laga]

To the guy above me = why would you ban Stealth Rock and the weather-setting moves? O_o

 

[b2j135]

To the guy above me = why would you ban Stealth Rock and the weather-setting moves? O_o

I think that FOR SURE Rain Dance and Hail need to be banned. OHKO Thunder and Blizzard is too OP for this type of play.
I am not TOO sure about Sandstorm and Sunny Day though...there aren't any Sand Rush Flying types or Levitate Pokemon so...this could be unbanned. How strong do you think Sand Force Lando-I/T is in this meta?
We need more testing...but SR NEEDS to go, so many bugs type will be happy! Not to mention Moltres and Charizard ;)

 

[Punchshroom]

Stealth Rock is free 25% on the majority of the metagame, and racks up very quickly as a result. A single move that has the potential to deal ~150-200% throughout the course of a game? Yeah Stealth Rock is much too powerful here, even if only a handful of eligible pokemon can actually learn it.

Weather moves though are up to debate really.

 

[Spork]

Yeah but Claydol and Xatu and especially Cryogonal are all still available and it isn't a free 25% on the majority because Rock resists/neutralities are found on many of the most important and viable pokemon. Meanwhile, for spinblockers, you have... Gengar. And Drifblim. They love switching into Psychic/Ice attacks.

Banning weather moves is frankly ridiculous, considering there are no Swift Swimmers and nobody is wasting a turn for to spam Thunder when it could fire off Thunderbolts right off the bat.

tl;dr: stop flippantly banning stuff

 

[SpartanMalice]

I disagree on the banning of weather moves too. This being a meta with limited options as it is it will only pokes like say, Tornadus more ineffective. Like spork said, it's a waste of time trying to spam Thunder since you only have 5 turns of rain and well, why even use Thunder and Blizzard when Thunderbolt and Ice Beam still flat out KO ?

I'm still not sure what to say about rocks. At first I thought it might be too OP, but then you see the limited distribution. Cryogonal is also a spinner who can threaten out a setter that isn't Skarmory or Bronzong with Ice Beam.

Also no offense but it kind of looked like you were trying to take over the thread. o.O

 

[b2j135]

This is why we test things, I have yet to actually try out SR as it seems just too OP, but I will give it a try today. I will also test all formes of weather and see how OP or not it is.
Thanks for the feedback guys! And no I'm not trying to take over the thread, I just have STRONG leadership skills ;)
I hope this metagame becomes more popular soon...

 

[Shiruba]

Who cares about limited distribution when some of the Pokemon that get it are Skarmory [resisting the main STAB of a lot of the metagame and having the physical bulk to stomach several powerful hits] and Landorus-I [with Intimidate to lessen blows, a great attack stat, and excellent stats overall]?

If there's controversy over the brokenness of Stealth Rock now, imagine what'd happen if most of the metagame is weak to it and very little resists it?


As for weather, Rain Dance sets you up for 8 Thunders [Damp Rock] as opposed to Thunderbolts if you have it.

95 * 8 = 760
120 * 8 = 960

200 whopping base power total, more than worth the time it takes to set up, and that's not counting the sweet 30% chance of paralysis as opposed to 10%. This is, of course, not counting STAB. Rain'd also make 100% accurate Hurricanes.

While I'm not saying this one is necessarily banned, it'd definitely be worth looking into.

Edit: As a UU player, I'm fully aware of the quality of the spinners Cryogonal and Claydol... They suck. Seriously. Crygonal is weak to the rocks it's going to spin away and dies to a light breeze physically, and Claydol is not only setup fodder, but literally attracts ghosts. There is a reason these two are D-Rank in the UU viability thread. They are very, very bad. As for Delibird, good luck, son.

 

[SpartanMalice]

Well if we go by b2j's rules then suddenly the only spinner is Claydol who's not so good (There's Delibird, but seriously, who would even use it?) since Cryogonal doesn't have levitate or a flying time. Cryogonal on the other hand has a much easier team threatening Skarmory with HP fire (or maybe electric since most pokes are part flying) and/or the switch in with Ice Beam because of it's high speed. That being said, without Cryogonal it suddenly becomes harder to spin when all you have is Claydol.

And b2j, that's not what I meant.

Also, as someone mentioned earlier Zapdos is probably gonna be common in this tier. It even gets rid of Skarmory, while it cant stop it from setting up SR cause of sturdy, you could volt switch to your spinner I guess.

 

[Spork]

Who cares about limited distribution when some of the Pokemon that get it are Skarmory [resisting the main STAB of a lot of the metagame and having the physical bulk to stomach several powerful hits] and Landorus-I [with Intimidate to lessen blows, a great attack stat, and excellent stats overall]?

If there's controversy over the brokenness of Stealth Rock now, imagine what'd happen if most of the metagame is weak to it and very little resists it?

Obviously it'd be a centralising factor but the point is that it isn't banned in standard play, which this meta is directly based on, and the available pokemon are more than capable of dealing with it. We have poor spinblockers, two good spinners (one with SR resistance and Electric immunity, another with excellent SpD for soaking BoltBeam and an amazing STAB) and a Magic Bouncer. Banning SR because you want to use Butterfree and Charizard is ridiculous.

As for weather, Rain Dance sets you up for 8 Thunders [Damp Rock] as opposed to Thunderbolts if you have it.

95 * 8 = 760
120 * 8 = 960

just stop

 

[Shiruba]

Obviously it'd be a centralising factor but the point is that it isn't banned in standard play, which this meta is directly based on, and the available pokemon are more than capable of dealing with it. We have poor spinblockers, two good spinners (one with SR resistance and Electric immunity, another with excellent SpD for soaking BoltBeam and an amazing STAB) and a Magic Bouncer. Banning SR because you want to use Butterfree and Charizard is ridiculous.

See my points about the spinners above. For Xatu, though, you need to predict the Stealth Rock/etc, though I'm not gonna say that Xatu sucks. It's probably the only one that's really viable. I can definitely see a lot of the rockers themselves [Aerodactyl in particular] smashing it, though.

I'm not against banning SR because I want to use Butterfree/Charizard/Articuno. Neither are the people who want to ban it in standard play.

As for standard play, well, Terrakion and Keldeo aren't banned there, so they shouldn't be banned here, either! Thing is, this is still a different metagame, and things aren't banned because they weren't banned before, they're banned because they are overcentralising.

just stop

why

 

[b2j135]

Well if we go by b2j's rules then suddenly the only spinner is Claydol who's not so good (There's Delibird, but seriously, who would even use it?) since Cryogonal doesn't have levitate or a flying time.

What? I don't understand this sentence...Cryogonal does have Levitate...

 

[Shiruba]

I'm also wondering... Would Roost not work in this meta, either? Makes sense that it wouldn't - roosting involves not flying, and the whole point of Sky Battles is that you are in the sky, naturally. This would nerf so many Pokemon lmao. Pokemon like Togekiss and the Lati twins that have access to alternate healing options would be godsends.

Edit: List of fully-evolved, legal Pokemon that learn Recover:

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Cryogonal
Chimecho
Latios
Latias

List of fully-evolved, legal Pokemon that learn Heal Order:

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Vespiquen

List of fully-evolved, legal Pokemon that learn Synthesis:

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Jumpluff
Carnivine

List of fully-evolved, legal Pokemon that learn Wish:

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Chimecho
Latias
Latios
Xatu
Togekiss

List of fully-evolved, legal Pokemon that learn Moonlight:

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Cresselia

List of fully-evolved, legal Pokemon that learn Morning Sun:

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Beautifly
Togekiss
Unfezant

Did I miss anyone?

 

[SpartanMalice]

Yeah nevermind that. I never used it before and didn't know it was allowed till Snaq mentioned it. That makes things a lot different. Still, this would go a lot better if someone actually battled. Stealth Rock looks broken on paper, but we'll have to see if it's too hard to counter or not first.

 

[Shiruba]

Whose rules would we play with, though? Qwilfish or bj's?

 

[SpartanMalice]

I'm with Qwilfish's right now since it's the only one I've made a team for, but if you want to use b2j's rules I'll just make a new one then.

 

[b2j135]

Okay I just had a Sky Battle with my buddy DarkBlitz720...Rain+Thunder is VERY powerful in this meta, especially when the user is Rotom-W but he was being a BITCH about me using Tornadus-T so he decided to bring 3 Choice Scarfers and beat me. I didn't even get a SR with my Aerodactly because he was bitching so much on Skype -_-

Time for another test with someone willing I suppose. Also, you guys DON'T HAVE to use my ruleset if you don't want to...we are suspect testing afterall right? I still don't know if SR is too good or not. Just give both a try.

 

[Shiruba]

For sure. However, Teambuilding would be easier if everyone knew what was legal. Does anyone object to my making a comprehensive list of every fully evolved, legal Pokemon in the tier?

 

[SpartanMalice]

Exactly. And the main difference between your ruleset and his is the banning of stealth rock and weather moves, which is exactly what we're going to test anyway. I have a team ready and I'll battle you in another 15 minutes if you're free for one.

 

[Qwilphish]

Im sorry, but this system was not run by me before you posted. Not only do I not agree with banning anything at the moment because at its heart this is a placeholder thread until more information is given out about Sky Battles. b2j135: I will not apply any of your changes for the reasons above. I am not trying to strongarm the ruleset that I have chosen upon anyone, but the goal of this thread is to preserve Nintendo's idea of Sky Battles in its purest form. I would also like to ask for everyone to refrain from taking b2j's list as the official banlist of Sky Battles- you may play with that banlist if you want but for the sake of consistent discussion do not discuss it here.

Besides that, I do enjoy the discussion of strong strategies in this metagame. As for my opinions on Stealth Rock, I have not found it broken in any game of mine. The spinners are much better than what everyone is giving them credit for. Claydol is exceptionally bulky and Cryogonal is one of the faster Pokemon. The best Spinblocker is obviously Gengar, but it is relatively easy to wear down. As for Stealth Rock itself, it may just be me, but I tend to not use many SR weak Pokemon in general. Bronzong is almost mandatory, Rotoms are extremely viable, and Latios is one of the hardest hitters in the metagame. From the games I played, I have never felt that the enjoyment of the tier was broken by SR.

 

[b2j135]

snip

No arguements here. I just really wanted to get everyones input and see how they feel about my ruleset. I actually want to test out SR even more now. Weather I'm still on the fence about but, hey to each's own.
Also...you don't want to use my custom art? :(


Edit: I'm not sure about Roost...RIGHT NOW I think we should use it, but once the games come out...we'll see I suppose.

For sure. However, Teambuilding would be easier if everyone knew what was legal. Does anyone object to my making a comprehensive list of every fully evolved, legal Pokemon in the tier?

No objections fro me ^_^