Serious Australian Election 2013: Liberals win

skylight

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Kevin Rudd has just been voted in as Labor Leader (Labor are currently in power) by the Labor caucus in a tight vote of 57 - 45. Julia Gillard (the soon to be ex-Prime Minister) took his position of Labor leader back in June 2010, while Australia was under a Federal Labor Government. With Rudd back in power, and high in the popularity polls, this gives the Labor party a chance of taking a win in the upcoming election (although the date could be changed from September 14 2013 to a later time, or sometime sooner, depending on what Rudd decides). Interestingly, Rudd had a chance to take leadership earlier in the year and mentioned that he wouldn't contest the leadership.

Also, in a poll run last week there was a 50/50 poll based on what party people would vote for if Rudd was in power. Now he's in power will this stand true?

As well as this, two independents, Rob Oakeshott and Tony Windsor, have announced they won't be involved in the next election. Adding to this, Julia Gillard has also bowed out of politics.

So what's your thoughts on this? For both Australians and those who have been keeping an eye on this, do you think this gives Labor a better chance at winning? Is there any chance at all? Would've you rather Gillard or Rudd as the PM? Would you rather Liberals in Federal Government than Labor due to the confusion over the leadership? Or for another reason? Even if you can't vote, what are your thoughts on the leadership/upcoming election? Also, what do you think was Gillard's downfall? Will Australia forgive Rudd for taking his seat back, or was it rightfully his? You don't need to answer everything, but they're just a few things that have come to mind.

Discuss your thoughts on the election/today's events, pretty much.
 
Wayne Swan and Steven Conroy have resigned.

Good riddance to two of our most incompetent (former!) ministers, with Wayne Swan's many failures to deliver a budget surplus and Steven Conroy's communications failures (like the NBN) haunting their 'legacies' forever.
 

michael

m as in mancy
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rudd voted in, loses the election, and is dumped in favour of shorten.

calling that now.

realistically, labor has no chance of winning the next election and rudd was the best candidate to keep as many seats for labor as possible. as much as i dislike him personally, he was the better choice for labor's current position.

that said, i'm still in favour of shorten or someone else to take charge after the upcoming election to steer labor to some semblance of coherence.

Good riddance to two of our most incompetent (former!) ministers, with Wayne Swan's many failures to deliver a budget surplus and Steven Conroy's communications failures (like the NBN) haunting their 'legacies' forever.
wayne's swan's lack of a surplus was very heavily due to the global financial crisis. you can't see a drop in australia's economy during a time of world economic turmoil and allocate all the blame with him. i agree that he shouldn't have promised a surplus so vehemently, but it's unfair to lynch swan for it.

conroy is a cockgobbler so thank god he's gone.
 

Its_A_Random

A distant memory
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Yeah, Rudd back in power has certainly boosted Labor's chances of winning the next election, but in my opinion, Rudd will not be enough for the ALP to win, but yeah it had to happen. If Gillard won, things were just going to get worse & worse for Labor to the point where they might as well concede that they are going to lose a lot of seats.

Even then, Rudd & Gillard are just as bad as each other. They both have not been able to do much good for Australia across the six years they have been in power, & the fact that Australia has just buried itself further & further into debt with each passing month... Looks like Abbot has his work cut out for him if he gets into power in terms of repaying this debt.

I do not know about any of you, but I am certainly not voting for Labor this election.
 
I'm gonna see if I can get away with not voting
I have an outstanding fine from a local election but they haven't chased me up on it in a few months so *shrug*
 
Good riddance to two of our most incompetent (former!) ministers, with Wayne Swan's many failures to deliver a budget surplus and Steven Conroy's communications failures (like the NBN) haunting their 'legacies' forever.
Swan got hit with a series of slowdowns in Chinese growth (which dented the holy fuck out of our exports), also a surplus is irrelevant right now given our debt is minuscule, but if we start playing slash and burn with the public service unemployment will not be. Never let the facts get in the way of inaccurate and inflammatory rhetoric though.

Also the NBN is actually the only GOOD idea to come out of Conroys office; it could do with some tweaks but the Coalition plan isn't up to snuff by an even larger margin.



Just on Australian politics in generla, both major parties suck; Liberals under Abbott are blindingly stupid lapdogs for the exceptionally wealthy (whereas usually they're just lapdogs for the exceptionally wealthy, Abbott as PM would be a national embarrassment), while Labor is the political extension of Unions (the less wealthy but equally corrupt and thuggish).

What amazes me is that the vast majority of the ~70% of Australians who fall into neither category of "Union Members"* or "Exceptionally Wealthy people" still vote for either of those rubbish parties.

*And not even all Unions, given it's pretty unfair to lump respectable (and necessary) unions such as the Australian Institute of Marine and Power Engineers with thugs like the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union.


I'm sad to see Tony Windsor calling it a day, he's far and away the single most level headed and sensible person in Australian politics.
 
YOU'RE sad to see Tony Windsor calling it a day? >< I live in his electorate, which is soon gonna be Barnaby Joyce's electorate. I'm so disappointed. I'm pretty sure, despite people here being pissed he helped Labor form government, he would've beaten Joyce out. Although ideologically we are not aligned, Windsor is a good politician and represented this electorate very well. My family and I've had some favourable encounters with him too.

I wish him the best with his health problems.

ETA: While I think it is good to steer discourse towards proper applications of preferences (and awareness of above/below the line senate voting) so that people understand they don't have to Vote [1] Major Party Representative, realistically in most situations you have to preference one of the big two before the other.
 
I don't recall Rudd doing anything that deserved negative feedback. I think some people just didn't like him because he was trying to be friends with China.

Considering Saint's Row 4 and State of Decay got banned even after we fought for that R18+ rating, nope.
The PC version on steam at the moment is listed as the low violence version. So we're probably looking at getting a translated German version for Saints Row 4.

R18+ games can still be banned if they don't follow the guidelines. With State of Decay, they just need to change the name of the drugs. As for SR4, they need to remove the anal probe weapon(sexual violence) and alien drugs(descriptive drug usage). All the reasons are a load of "think of the children!".
 
The PC version on steam at the moment is listed as the low violence version. So we're probably looking at getting a translated German version for Saints Row 4.

R18+ games can still be banned if they don't follow the guidelines. With State of Decay, they just need to change the name of the drugs. As for SR4, they need to remove the anal probe weapon(sexual violence) and alien drugs(descriptive drug usage). All the reasons are a load of "think of the children!".

People down here were upset that Fallout 3 had to be censored just to see an Australian release. I doubt people will be happy with SR4 and State of Decay being released in a toned-down state, especially after a change that was supposed to rectify this very problem. The people on the classification board really need to get their heads out of their arses.
 
I don't recall Rudd doing anything that deserved negative feedback. I think some people just didn't like him because he was trying to be friends with China.
Well anyone who thinks we can trust the Chinese needs their head examined, of course I'd argue the same about Americans, Russians, Indians, and anyone else who has a remotely significant stake in how we do things.

I believe the problems many (within the Labor caucus) had with Rudd was that he was permanently in a state of campaign rather than actually getting things done and working with people. If we look at his first term he really didn't *do* anything much.
 
People down here were upset that Fallout 3 had to be censored just to see an Australian release. I doubt people will be happy with SR4 and State of Decay being released in a toned-down state, especially after a change that was supposed to rectify this very problem. The people on the classification board really need to get their heads out of their arses.
Luckily for people planning to get the PC version of SR4, they can get a steam friend in the US or UK to gift it to them. Just buy a $50 steam card at EB Games(or any other store near you selling them), and give the code to a friend(you also save yourself $20).
Unfortunately, there's no way to get an uncensored State of Decay without getting screwed over :(

I also want to see the classification board to get their head out of their arse, but they're all old, so they should be rolling over dead soon.
Well anyone who thinks we can trust the Chinese needs their head examined, of course I'd argue the same about Americans, Russians, Indians, and anyone else who has a remotely significant stake in how we do things.

I believe the problems many (within the Labor caucus) had with Rudd was that he was permanently in a state of campaign rather than actually getting things done and working with people. If we look at his first term he really didn't *do* anything much.
You gotta be bffs if you want to get some business contracts(which means more jobs). PMs never really do anything, they just say what the plans are for the future, and pass down the message to whoever is in charge of what.
 
You gotta be bffs if you want to get some business contracts(which means more jobs).
What would mean more jobs is ceasing our endless intake of foreign students who virtually automatically become Permanent Residents after their degree, who are essentially buying PR.


PMs never really do anything, they just say what the plans are for the future, and pass down the message to whoever is in charge of what.
Not really true; they do a lot of negotiation with the states -- something Gillard managed MUCH better than Rudd, and much more.
 

Crux

Banned deucer.
What would mean more jobs is ceasing our endless intake of foreign students who virtually automatically become Permanent Residents after their degree, who are essentially buying PR
You know who stopped the boats?




White Australia Policy, bring it back.

I don't understand why immigration is an issue of any importance to anyone unless they are a racist. There is literally no good reason that "stop the boats" or any other kind of immigration policy should be paraded as some hot topic election issue that decides the election.

I think the good thing about the re-election of Rudd is that he will probably do what he was beginning to do in his first term and begin to re-separate Labor right for Labor left, so that Australia has a legitimate alternative left. The factional make-up of the Labor party is really detrimental to any kind of Leftist representation and the Labor party has really been a centre-right party masquerading as a left party for the last few years. Hopefully we begin to see actual progress on issues like women's / gay / poor rights and welfare etc. that have been largely ignored due to this right, conservative bias actually discussed if not legislated. I think it will also stop a lot of this inane discussion about the economy when it is clear that none of the people discussing it have any idea what they are talking about!
 
I don't understand why immigration is an issue of any importance to anyone unless they are a racist. There is literally no good reason that "stop the boats" or any other kind of immigration policy should be paraded as some hot topic election issue that decides the election.
Because an open door immigration policy inevitably translates to high unemployment and crime (just take a look at Greece and Spain), not to mention higher house prices. Even ignoring that, there are plenty of other legit reasons to be against poorly thought out immigration policy in a country as agriculturally handicapped as Australia -- we barely produce enough food for the population as is, we're light on for water, our major cities are too goddamn big as is, and we have a passable but not great unemployment rate -- so basically unless there's specific reasons for it we really don't need (or get any benefit as a nation from) more people.

Also this ludicrous false equivalence of "opposed to unnecessary immigration" = "racist" is fucking ridiculous, cut that shit out if you want to have a vaguely intelligent discussion. I have no issue with immigrants on any personal level, I have an issue with bad policy.

I think the good thing about the re-election of Rudd is that he will probably do what he was beginning to do in his first term and begin to re-separate Labor right for Labor left, so that Australia has a legitimate alternative left. The factional make-up of the Labor party is really detrimental to any kind of Leftist representation and the Labor party has really been a centre-right party masquerading as a left party for the last few years.
Gillard is arguably far further left than Rudd ever was. Even if we ignore that the policies of the Gillard admin were further left than those Rudd is currently campaigning on, the odds of a QLD Labor member being further left than a Victorian is pretty much non-existent.


Hopefully we begin to see actual progress on issues like women's / gay / poor rights and welfare etc. that have been largely ignored due to this right, conservative bias actually discussed if not legislated. I think it will also stop a lot of this inane discussion about the economy when it is clear that none of the people discussing it have any idea what they are talking about!
Poor people have it pretty bloody good here (and our disability system is about to improve), and unless we're going to crack down on long term unemployed I fail to see what rationale you have for improving our welfare system (ignoring that it's already pretty good). Just get gay marriage over, let them be miserable like everyone else. I don't know what progress you want on women's rights; if you're pro-quotas I'm pro you jumping off a cliff into a pool of acid.
 

Crux

Banned deucer.
Because an open door immigration policy inevitably translates to high unemployment and crime (just take a look at Greece and Spain), not to mention higher house prices. Even ignoring that, there are plenty of other legit reasons to be against poorly thought out immigration policy in a country as agriculturally handicapped as Australia -- we barely produce enough food for the population as is, we're light on for water, our major cities are too goddamn big as is, and we have a passable but not great unemployment rate -- so basically unless there's specific reasons for it we really don't need (or get any benefit as a nation from) more people.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/(SICI)1520-6688(199822)17:3<457::AID-PAM4>3.0.CO;2-F/abstract
http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/sp.2009.56.3.447
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X05000104

Immigration does not lead to higher crime. If you think immigration had any impact on the crises in Greece and Spain then you have no understanding of the Eurozone or its constituents or the problems it is facing at the moment.

http://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/negotiations/trade_in_agriculture.html
http://www.nff.org.au/farm-facts.html

We can easily accommodate more people agriculturally given the enormous export capacity that already exists and even if we couldn't then there is this magical thing that exists called imports. The concern about big cities is a bit silly and I'm not exactly sure what the problem with having lots of people is if it doesn't cause any kind of strain on other people's existence (which it certainly doesn't):

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1475-4932.1985.tb02010.x/abstract
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.23...id=2134&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21102513694987
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/026921799101698#.Udnwz_lkOSo

And all the stuff on unemployment is unfounded too!

Also this ludicrous false equivalence of "opposed to unnecessary immigration" = "racist" is fucking ridiculous, cut that shit out if you want to have a vaguely intelligent discussion. I have no issue with immigrants on any personal level, I have an issue with bad policy.
Well given that you can't provide any reason to actually stop immigration on any level and given the nature of your actual objections then I don't think that the equivalence is false at all!

Gillard is arguably far further left than Rudd ever was. Even if we ignore that the policies of the Gillard admin were further left than those Rudd is currently campaigning on, the odds of a QLD Labor member being further left than a Victorian is pretty much non-existent.
Did you actually follow Rudd's term at all? Rudd's policies were indisputably further left and that is why he was lynched in the first place. Factions didn't appreciate how far left he had moved and instigated the leadership spill. (Also I found the bit about you not being motivated by any personal dislike and not being a racist was effectively refuted by yourself in the last part of this quote).

Poor people have it pretty bloody good here (and our disability system is about to improve), and unless we're going to crack down on long term unemployed I fail to see what rationale you have for improving our welfare system (ignoring that it's already pretty good). Just get gay marriage over, let them be miserable like everyone else. I don't know what progress you want on women's rights; if you're pro-quotas I'm pro you jumping off a cliff into a pool of acid.
http://www.voced.edu.au/content/ngv13335
http://search.informit.com.au/documentSummary;dn=191745628241167;res=IELFSC
http://digital.library.adelaide.edu.au/theses/09ARM/09armb242.pdf

No the poor don't have it good here (or anywhere for that matter) and they continue to be left behind by a society with such dismissive and selfish attitudes as you have shown here: "O we totally did NDIS we don't need to do anything else now, fucking welfare bludgers stealing all of our tax money". I think it is absolutely the government's duty to engage with those people who are severely disadvantaged by societal structures be they economic and social (in the case of the poor) or otherwise in the case of the other groups you listed.

I'm glad that you think equal rights for gays is something worth fighting for...

Better paid maternity leave and job security during child birth, equal pay for equal work, abortion reform and less incentive / social and political pressure to adhere to stigmas surrounding womanhood and the roles that women should fulfill would be a good start!
 
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/(SICI)1520-6688(199822)17:3<457::AID-PAM4>3.0.CO;2-F/abstract
http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/sp.2009.56.3.447
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X05000104

Immigration does not lead to higher crime. If you think immigration had any impact on the crises in Greece and Spain then you have no understanding of the Eurozone or its constituents or the problems it is facing at the moment.
Why are you using the United States as an example, especially when you consider how badly skewed US crime figures are towards the urban poor (also the US has far from an open door immigration policy -- an endless flood of illegal immigrants from Mexico, but they don't want to get caught and deported).

50% of crime in Greece is done by immigrants, 30% of crime in Spain is done by immigrants.

Both Greece and Spain have incredible levels of unemployment among unskilled workers and huge unskilled immigrant populations. It's not the immigrants fault mind you, it's the fault of the people who decided bringing in a ton of unskilled workers to fuel a bubble was a good idea -- neglecting to consider that bubbles burst and then you have to pay unemployment benefits.


http://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/negotiations/trade_in_agriculture.html
http://www.nff.org.au/farm-facts.html

We can easily accommodate more people agriculturally given the enormous export capacity that already exists and even if we couldn't then there is this magical thing that exists called imports. The concern about big cities is a bit silly and I'm not exactly sure what the problem with having lots of people is if it doesn't cause any kind of strain on other people's existence (which it certainly doesn't):
We actually don't have a particularly large export capacity in our agriculture; we're slightly better off than a net importer (and thankfully most of what we import is from New Zealand). There's no reason to put ourselves into an even higher trade deficit though.

And yes lots of people does cause problems, because infrastructure needs to cope with the larger population (our peak hour traffic/trains are already ridiculous here in Melbourne) which requires money. I don't know if you realise this but Melbourne and Sydney are large cities, even on a global scale -- and most of the bigger cities are highly polluted holes.


I can't read your articles (thanks paywall), but we've been going through a pretty good period of growth in the last 10 years, however there's definitely more unemployment than before -- especially in the tertiary educated sectors where we've educated and then kept a lot of Indian and Chinese students, IT jobs are really tough to find these days (I know people who, despite having good experience, have been unemployed for months -- some of whom are migrants).


Well given that you can't provide any reason to actually stop immigration on any level and given the nature of your actual objections then I don't think that the equivalence is false at all!
Already refuted your points, regardless your logic doesn't hold up. It's funny to think I've helped people practice for their IELTS exams and you're accusing me of being racist though.


Did you actually follow Rudd's term at all? Rudd's policies were indisputably further left and that is why he was lynched in the first place. Factions didn't appreciate how far left he had moved and instigated the leadership spill. (Also I found the bit about you not being motivated by any personal dislike and not being a racist was effectively refuted by yourself in the last part of this quote).
Rudd was ousted because his dumb ass decided to announce a controversial, incomplete policy that successfully pissed off everyone involved in our largest export sector (you may remember he was on track to lose the election at the time) which he completely failed to sell the general public on in close proximity to an election, Rudd was hideously ineffectual as prime minister, virtually nothing got done during the Rudd administration (unless you prefer symbolism over substance).


Gillard administration: Gonski, NDIS, Carbon Price, withdrew troops from Afghanistan, parental leave scheme, mining tax (even if watered down, actually getting it over the line in a hung parliament is nothing short of a miracle), health reform (including the new Dental stuff, which is as far left as you can get from Labor).

Rudd administration: Pulled apart work choices (but didn't fully roll it back), signed onto Kyoto Protocol (without actually ensuring we'd meet the target), distributed a bunch of unnecessary laptops, ridiculously poorly implemented insulation scheme.

I'd argue Gillards administrative accomplishments line up much better with the left. Both administrations had to negotiate with relatively conservative independents and cross bencher's to get anything done.

You're missing a bit between the ears if you think Queensland isn't vastly more conservative than Victoria as a general statement -- plus it's pretty well documented that the Queensland Labor party has been dominated by more right wing elements of Labor.


I'm glad that you think equal rights for gays is something worth fighting for....
It'd be more accurate to say I don't think it's worth fighting about. As a rule, if there's no reason to prevent something and it being prevented personally effects someone, then it shouldn't be prevented.


I think it is absolutely the government's duty to engage with those people who are severely disadvantaged by societal structures be they economic and social (in the case of the poor) or otherwise in the case of the other groups you listed.
The government already provides plenty of opportunity for people who are vaguely capable and willing to put in effort.


No the poor don't have it good here (or anywhere for that matter) and they continue to be left behind by a society with such dismissive and selfish attitudes as you have shown here: "O we totally did NDIS we don't need to do anything else now, fucking welfare bludgers stealing all of our tax money".
I was speaking in relative terms, but lets be honest: most people who are really poor in this country are poor for a reason and it's usually more to do with them than anything else. If someone is unemployed for 2 years, it says more about their efforts and abilities than anything else.


Better paid maternity leave and job security during child birth, equal pay for equal work, abortion reform and less incentive / social and political pressure to adhere to stigmas surrounding womanhood and the roles that women should fulfill would be a good start!
Paid maternity leave shouldn't ever come from public funds, the government should not be subsidising the choices people make.

If you took 12 months away from work for any reason but child birth you wouldn't have a job when you came back, child birth shouldn't be an exception.

Equal pay for equal work is fine, but lets not pretend that because 2 people do the same job they actually do equal work -- some people are more skilled, more productive, work harder, and should be paid as such.

Abortion is one of those things that should be safe, available, and extremely infrequent -- it's a difficult balance to strike.

The role of the government isn't to change our society (as our society determines who is in government).
 
Ah, yes, blame the poor, it's all their fault, poor people are awful and lazy and incapable and their children should be left to starve, what terrible social ills. Imagine spending your childhood on welfare because your father had to retire early due to mental illness so severe that it has to be medicated so that he can't work again, and your stay-at-home disabled mother was lumped with caring for him and her disabled daughter, so even if she wanted work it could only be part-time, and she would have all the disadvantage of lacking up-to-date training in her field due to being out of work so long due to her circumstances.

It's very easy for the middle-class to talk about how easy it is to be poor in Australia and how they wouldn't stay poor for long, but when you have all the fucking disadvantages of poverty on your side (usually worse education, lack of access to resources -- I lacked internet for a good time too, before you point out I'm on Smogon!, the fact that poor people spend a lot of their energy on getting by and not the pursuit of class mobility, etc.), instead of the privileges of not having to constantly worry about every time your parents spend money or where your next meal is coming from (not even being dramatic!), and no ability to pursue employment at your leisure, then I think you know a little more about what it's like to not have money. For the record, my medication -- there are three of us in this house who take prescription meds -- costs hundreds of dollars a month, and not all of it is subsidised, and I see at least four different specialists several times a year, some of whom I have to travel to see. When you're dealing with that kind of surcharge on your monthly costs of survival, it's a lot harder. Sure, Australia is a lot better than other countries like the USA, but don't kid yourself that just because we're comparatively generous (and even that is saying a lot), poverty is ever easy. Income disparity is still a huge problem here too.

Yep, you can drag yourself up out of poverty, and I certainly hope that I will be able to do this through education despite my illnesses that may make it difficult for me to hold down meaningful employment, but it's incredibly ignorant to a) condemn the dependents of those who are poor to a disadvantaged life, continuing the cycle of poverty b) gloss over the difficulties of life which those who are poor experience and make it so much more difficult to break said cycle c) think that anyone deserves to suffer the across-the-board disadvantages and inequity those who are poor are subjected to.

Also, I thought unemployment was the fault of all those dirty criminal boat people.

It'd be more accurate to say I don't think it's worth fighting about. As a rule, if there's no reason to prevent something and it being prevented personally effects someone, then it shouldn't be prevented.
I'm not really sure what you mean by that last sentence. Are you agreeing that it's a no-brainer that LGBT equality (hell, forget marriage; let's look more closely at the disproportionate amounts of youth homelessness and disenfranchisement, poverty, workplace and employment discrimination, hate crimes, etc. etc.; let's look at trans rights too!) should move forward? If so, stop sitting on your hands and look around; it'd be kind to say it's crawling. Social change doesn't just happen automatically. It needs to happen on the part of individuals, on the parts of communities, and, yes, in some areas from the recognition and legislature of governments. That means fighting!!

It's funny to think I've helped people practice for their IELTS exams and you're accusing me of being racist though.
What does this even have to do with anything?

Paid maternity leave shouldn't ever come from public funds, the government should not be subsidising the choices people make.
Hmm, but is it really a regular choice that people make just like any other, free of pressures and external forces? It's not like mothers are going off work to have a holiday. The burden of maternity is generally borne by the mother, and the parent who stays home -- usually the woman -- is loaded with a bunch of disadvantages career-wise because of it. This amounts to a huge disadvantage that is unfairly shouldered by women when people want to have families. You can't expect people to across-the-board stop having children, and having children later in life is associated with a number of problems too. Oh, I guess the rich can keep having children, since they can afford to get by...! Everyone starts equal in life, don'tcha know. Honestly I think it's a good thing for society to encourage a parent to stay home with their kid in the first year, and given the difficulty women can experience in pregnancy/post-pregnancy it needs to not be a career-risking move disproportionately for one gender to have children. Not that I support the idiotic policy of the Coalition, handing out money to the women who need it least and upholding income inequity.

Equal pay for equal work is fine, but lets not pretend that because 2 people do the same job they actually do equal work -- some people are more skilled, more productive, work harder, and should be paid as such.
Gosh, I agree with you -- some people do more, better work than others! Wouldn't it be nice if all people got recognised for those efforts, instead of some getting paid less despite them just because they're women and that's acceptable?

Abortion is one of those things that should be safe, available, and extremely infrequent -- it's a difficult balance to strike.
Hmm, I don't know if I agree with this. Safe and available (where available means readily accessible, not accessible if you are rich and can afford to travel, not inaccessible if you are young and your parents disapprove) sounds great to me. Infrequent is a secondary priority that comes out of pragmatism. I agree it would be better to avoid unwanted pregnancies in the first place, due to the cost and the problems they can cause, but I don't see infrequency of abortion as such an important consideration that it needs to be balanced with safety and accessibility first and foremost.
 

Crux

Banned deucer.
Why are you using the United States as an example, especially when you consider how badly skewed US crime figures are towards the urban poor (also the US has far from an open door immigration policy -- an endless flood of illegal immigrants from Mexico, but they don't want to get caught and deported).

50% of crime in Greece is done by immigrants, 30% of crime in Spain is done by immigrants.

Both Greece and Spain have incredible levels of unemployment among unskilled workers and huge unskilled immigrant populations. It's not the immigrants fault mind you, it's the fault of the people who decided bringing in a ton of unskilled workers to fuel a bubble was a good idea -- neglecting to consider that bubbles burst and then you have to pay unemployment benefits.
1) There is no connection between immigration and crime documented for any country anywhere. Here is another study that mentions Australia: http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s12134-009-0117-9.pdf . The US example is actually more pertinent because given the illegal nature of the immigrants and their inability to get jobs as well as being generally disenfranchised by a system that rejects them would probably mean that they are more likely to commit crime, when in fact they are not.

2) In Greece there is an influx of illegal immigrants for areas in the country's general vicinity. These include: armed gangs from Albania and Bulgaria and undocumented immigrants from Iran, Iraq, Pakistan etc. who are totally destitute. Additionally much of this crime is also due to political unrest within said countries particularly among UNEMPLOYED (read: they are not stealing your jobs) young immigrants (as in most European countries actually). I never said that I was in favour of open door immigration policy though and I don't think these are the kinds of groups we are likely to get immigrating to Australia.

We actually don't have a particularly large export capacity in our agriculture; we're slightly better off than a net importer (and thankfully most of what we import is from New Zealand). There's no reason to put ourselves into an even higher trade deficit though.

And yes lots of people does cause problems, because infrastructure needs to cope with the larger population (our peak hour traffic/trains are already ridiculous here in Melbourne) which requires money. I don't know if you realise this but Melbourne and Sydney are large cities, even on a global scale -- and most of the bigger cities are highly polluted holes.
1) Yes we do, we export 60% of our agricultural produce already.

2) You're probably not familiar with the Pitchford Thesis since your knowledge of economics has been lacking elsewhere but most of our imports are actually driven by the private sector engaging in mutually beneficial trade and are subsequently used to produce goods which are exported.

2) Fix problems with infrastructure and sustainability then and obtain all the benefits that immigration brings: http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/research/social-costs-benefits/chapter_3-6.pdf


Rudd was ousted because his dumb ass decided to announce a controversial, incomplete policy that successfully pissed off everyone involved in our largest export sector (you may remember he was on track to lose the election at the time) which he completely failed to sell the general public on in close proximity to an election, Rudd was hideously ineffectual as prime minister, virtually nothing got done during the Rudd administration (unless you prefer symbolism over substance).


Gillard administration: Gonski, NDIS, Carbon Price, withdrew troops from Afghanistan, parental leave scheme, mining tax (even if watered down, actually getting it over the line in a hung parliament is nothing short of a miracle), health reform (including the new Dental stuff, which is as far left as you can get from Labor).

Rudd administration: Pulled apart work choices (but didn't fully roll it back), signed onto Kyoto Protocol (without actually ensuring we'd meet the target), distributed a bunch of unnecessary laptops, ridiculously poorly implemented insulation scheme.

I'd argue Gillards administrative accomplishments line up much better with the left. Both administrations had to negotiate with relatively conservative independents and cross bencher's to get anything done.

You're missing a bit between the ears if you think Queensland isn't vastly more conservative than Victoria as a general statement -- plus it's pretty well documented that the Queensland Labor party has been dominated by more right wing elements of Labor.
No, Rudd was ousted because he didn't work well with Labor right. The mining tax debacle was merely convenience. This has actually been stated by several Labor politicians and even a few Unionists. Gillard's policy is at best centrist and was mostly as a result of common sense rather than leftist ideologies and was already mandated by Rudd in most cases anyway! My comment was quite clearly about the factional nature of the party and the effect that has on its policies. Gillard never did anything to quell the growth of those factions and Rudd did and seems set to do so again. I have made no comments about Queensland's conservatism vs. Victoria's. I commented on Rudd's view of the factions vs. Gillard's when in the context of their leftist ideologies.

And Miffy responded to all the social stuff.

Except that I think it is the role of government to intervene in a social context when society actively marginalises and oppresses groups of people due to circumstances that are totally outside of their control. This is particularly true in the cases of gays, women, immigrants and the poor because governments and society have both benefited from the oppression of those groups politically and economically. Governments have legislated to enforce new values on society countless times and I am absolutely happy for them to do so in the future.
 
Gillard is arguably far further left than Rudd ever was. Even if we ignore that the policies of the Gillard admin were further left than those Rudd is currently campaigning on, the odds of a QLD Labor member being further left than a Victorian is pretty much non-existent.
If Gillard is so left, why did she vote against same sex marriage because it goes against her beliefs? That sounds like a pretty right thing to do. Let's also not forget that her goonies also voted no. oh oh oh! And how she played the sex card a lot.

Let's face it, both have had their ups and downs. The only reason you don't see much of the Rudd administration accomplishments is because he was backstabbed and thrown away. OH, and fyi. We wouldn't have the nbn if it wasn't for Rudd.
 
I hope Rudd wins the next election since I've agreed with most of his policies in the past and also because he's internationally respected, which can only be a good thing. I liked Gillard as well, but I think that Rudd will do more for the Labor party and the Australian people... but as long as Labor is in power I'm happy.
 

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