Gen V Balanced Hackmons

[asterat]

Hey all I decided to compile a list of pokemon by primary type that are viable. If you think a pokemon with a dual type is missing check its other type. Of course you can use any pokemon but these are the only ones worth using 99.9% of the time. If I forgot one tell me.

Normal:

• Chansey
• Blissey
• Slaking
• Regigigas
• Arceus
• Meloetta-P

Fire:

• Darmanitan
• Ho-Oh
• Heatran
• Darmanitan-Z

Fighting:

• None

Water:

• Suicune
• Kyogre
• Palkia
• Jellicent
• Keldeo

Flying:

• None

Grass:

• Shaymin-S
• Ferrothorn
• Virizion

Poison:

• None

Electric:

• Thundurus-I
• Thundurus-T

Ground:

• Groudon
• Rhydon
• Gliscor
• Landorus-I
• Landorus-T

Psychic:

• Mewtwo
• Deoxys-A
• Deoxys-S
• Cresselia
• Lugia

Rock:

• Regirock
• Tyranitar
• Arceus-Rock
• Archeops
• Terrakion

Ice:

• None

Bug:

• Shuckle
• Shedinja
• Escavalier
• Genesect

Dragon:

• Latias
• Latios
• Rayquaza
• Reshiram
• Zekrom
• Kyurem-W
• Kyurem-B

Ghost:

• Gengar
• Spiritomb
• Giratina-A
• Giratina-O
• Arceus-Ghost

Dark:

• None

Steel:

• Registeel
• Skarmory
• Jirachi
• Dialga

And there you have it. All of the pokemon generally viable in balanced hackmons. The tier isn't that hard to figure out.

 

[EV]

Is this the beginning of a viability ranking?

 

[asterat]

Is this the beginning of a viability ranking?

I don't have plans to make one. I feel like different pokemon all work differently in BH especially because it is difficult to put a specific grasp on what a standard team is. Anybody can list 6 mons that make a standard OU team but it's fuzzier in BH. Also I'm adding arceus ghost and rock I forgot them.

 

[asterat]

Is this the beginning of a viability ranking?

I don't have plans to make one. I feel like different pokemon all work differently in BH especially because it is difficult to put a specific grasp on what a standard team is. Anybody can list 6 mons that make a standard OU team but it's fuzzier in BH. Also I'm adding arceus ghost and rock I forgot them.

 

[Arcticblast]

There's already a viability rankings thread somewhere that Hyperbeem and I were working on.

 

[Adrian Marin]

The big problem with the viability ranking thread that you and Hyperbeem were working on is that because of BH's changing nature, the rankings get less accurate over time (Mold BreakerDeoxys-S is not as good as it was for example.) I think a guide will somehow enlighten people more, many important BH players and myself are working on it at the moment.

 

[EV]

There's already a viability rankings thread somewhere that Hyperbeem and I were working on.

I thought so but I couldn't remember.

There's always so many new things popping up, so reigniting the viability thread or posting this guide Adrian is talking about should help people stay in the loop.

 

[asterat]

I thought so but I couldn't remember.

There's always so many new things popping up, so reigniting the viability thread or posting this guide Adrian is talking about should help people stay in the loop.

The guide will forever remain hidden from the public.





Or at least until its decided it should be shared. I'm in the middle of writing something about leads so I want to finish that at least first.

 

[Adrian Marin]

The guide will forever remain hidden from the public.

Or at least until its decided it should be shared. I'm in the middle of writing something about leads so I want to finish that at least first.

The guide will be released once it's finished.

 

[ntiller]

The guide will take a very long time to finish.

Also, Asterat, I think you were pretty liberal in that list in some places. I would not consider Suicune, Spiritomb, or Tyranitar to be viable.

 

[EV]

I used to love my Sap Sipper Tyranitar. Sub on a Spore. Sucker Punch and Swords Dance mind games.

 

[asterat]

Spiritomb is strictly viable in tandem with imposter lure jirachi. It is immune to both secret sword and stored power while it traps chansey and sets up acupressure or hazards until chansey struggles to death.

Tyranitar can pull of a few sets, it is really hard to take down in sandstorm with so much HP defense and special defense. To put it in perspective it has more physical defense than slowbro. Unfortunately it is 4x weak to fighting which can be an issue with secret sword and to a lesser degree aura sphere.

Suicune is a decent unaware wall but its definitely one of the lesser pokemon on the list.

 

[Keep it Playful]

The guide will take a very long time to finish.

Also, Asterat, I think you were pretty liberal in that list in some places. I would not consider Suicune, Spiritomb, or Tyranitar to be viable.

I use Magic Bounce/Vital Spirit Tyranitar on 1/3 of my teams and I've had great success with him. Not only does Tyranitar take down one of the most common leads (Deo-S), it takes on almost every Giratina set, the most used Pokemon in Balanced Hackmons. Fighting is really the only attack that stops Tyranitar.

 

[asterat]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/balanced-hackmons-viability-rankings-thread.3480659/

I took a look at it and it doesn't seem all bad but there is a lot I personally disagree with, but thats probably just my playstyle/personal opinions. I think a viability ranking thread isn't a great idea for this metagame. However I would LOVE to see balanced hackmons get its own forum like doubles did, as far as I am concerned that only happened because pocket and NixHex back doubles. Hell they even have doubles analysis just like for OU (check tyranitar's page.) If that were to happen I would personally enjoy writing 10+ analysises (?) for different pokemon. Tbh I'm surprised it hasn't already happened with chaos and Zarel in BH cast. Arcticblast is the only mod that regularly contributes to BH on forums though... If that never happens just sit tight until the guide is published its pretty close to done.

 

[Vincent]

From what I remember, there's some complicated stuff with Arceus that prevents the formes from being obtained with different items or abilities (remember - it relies on BOTH, not just one).

Thanks for answering that, it would be really nice seeing things like Normalize Skill Swap Ghost Arceus or Sandstream Rock Arceus (among many others) on the current metagame.

Going further into this subject, if one day you guys solve this problem about Arceus formes, what do you guys think about allowing Plate+Multitype for any pokemon beyond Arceus?

I already can imagine endless possibilities:

-Iron Plate on Giratina or Blissey to give them Steel type instead of Ghost/Dragon and Normal, respectively, what means the best defensive type on the best physical wall and the best special wall;
-Flame or Splash Plate on Deoxys-A to spam STAB V-Create and Water Spout coming from the best base Atk and Sp.Atk of the game;
-Spooky Plate on Deoxys-A to give this fragile Pokemon two key immunities to switch in and start to wreak havoc with the unresisted Judgment+Secret Sword combination coming from 180 base Sp.Atk;
-And so on...

Well, i guess i made my point.

 

[Major Blitz]

I remember seeing a extreme killer arcues disguised as a ghost arcues.quite a good strategy i must say

 

[asterat]

Thanks for answering that, it would be really nice seeing things like Normalize Skill Swap Ghost Arceus or Sandstream Rock Arceus (among many others) on the current metagame.

Going further into this subject, if one day you guys solve this problem about Arceus formes, what do you guys think about allowing Plate+Multitype for any pokemon beyond Arceus?

I already can imagine endless possibilities:

-Iron Plate on Giratina or Blissey to give them Steel type instead of Ghost/Dragon and Normal, respectively, what means the best defensive type on the best physical wall and the best special wall;
-Flame or Splash Plate on Deoxys-A to spam STAB V-Create and Water Spout coming from the best base Atk and Sp.Atk of the game;
-Spooky Plate on Deoxys-A to give this fragile Pokemon two key immunities to switch in and start to wreak havoc with the unresisted Judgment+Secret Sword combination coming from 180 base Sp.Atk;
-And so on...

It isn't close to as good as you would expect. You are always better off using a pokemon of that type even if it means sacrificing a little bit of stats because you lose item and ability which makes you very underwhelming in balanced hackmons. I suppose it might be able to work if there is a pokemon whose stats are better suited to a certain role than an arceus who is a rock or ghost (only viable forms.) Maybe like a slaking on a sand team could put in work with sd/head smash/eq/heal order with sandstorm whittling down enemies and boosting SpD really high.

EDIT: I ran a few calcs. Do not use multitype slaking.

I remember seeing a extreme killer arcues disguised as a ghost arcues.quite a good strategy i must say

If your opponent was using an extreme killer arceus then it wasn't a very good strategy. Arceus formes something you learn to expect. Assume it arceus-normal unless it's on a sand team (then its rock.) If it isn't on a sand team and it uses tail glow or judgment then its arceus ghost. 90% of the time it will be normal so don't sweat it.

 

[bobbyvaporeon]

tbh id put Blaziken/Infernape in because i use it as a great Contrarian. STAB V-Create, SuperPower, and both having high enough Special Attack to use Draco Meteor.

 

[Arcticblast]

Multitype is hard coded to work only on Arceus, and as a result cannot be used on any other Pokemon.

 

[Redless]

Surely the type changing effect only works on Arceus, but if another Pokemon is hacked to have multitype, can it be skill swapped?

 

[FMD]

Why is Sturdy Lum Recycle Shedinja allowed?

 

[Manitary]

Because it's killed by weather/phazing+hazard/taunt+status etc.?

 

[Arcticblast]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/balanced-hackmons-viability-rankings-thread.3480659/

I took a look at it and it doesn't seem all bad but there is a lot I personally disagree with, but thats probably just my playstyle/personal opinions. I think a viability ranking thread isn't a great idea for this metagame. However I would LOVE to see balanced hackmons get its own forum like doubles did, as far as I am concerned that only happened because pocket and NixHex back doubles. Hell they even have doubles analysis just like for OU (check tyranitar's page.) If that were to happen I would personally enjoy writing 10+ analysises (?) for different pokemon. Tbh I'm surprised it hasn't already happened with chaos and Zarel in BH cast. Arcticblast is the only mod that regularly contributes to BH on forums though... If that never happens just sit tight until the guide is published its pretty close to done.

The big barriers to BH becoming official are its general nature (y'know, everything's hacked) and its tiny playerbase. It also doesn't have an admin currently backing it becoming official like Doubles did. However, chaos has stated that he wants to put some more emphasis on Other Metas in the Strategy Dex in the future (in particular, mentioning a Tier Shift filter), so we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Adrian Marin]

You may remember me for creating the Shell Smash Stored Power Jirachi + Spiritomb combo. I actually made a more consistent version with Dry Skin Jirachi and Magnet Pull Umbreon

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Substitute
- Heal Order

The nice part about this set is that it walls the standard Drizzle Palkia making it setup bait, my mistake before was that Fighting STAB isn't even necessary, all it needed were the opportunities to setup, Dry Skin makes it really easy for him and is a great rain counter.

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Careful Nature
- Perish Song
- Foul Play
- Heal Order
- Stealth Rock/Fire Spin/Whirlpool

Umbreon is by far the best option, it has good bulk and STAB Foul Play which is useful in some occasions. Perish Song allows it to defeat the Impostered Jirachi's and sometimes steel types such as Registeel and Dialga whereas Stealth Rock is useful against the Impostered Jirachi because it can't do anything. Fire Spin and Whirlpool are options if you want to perish-trap non-steel types.

 

[Adrian Marin]

Accidentally double posted, might as well post something

FERRAGETHORN (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Calm Nature
- Substitute
- Heal Order
- Spore
- Baton Pass

This Ferrothorn is a great lead and a great counter to Rainy Palkias such as Swift Swim and Drizzle Palkia, It can put pressure to the opponent with quick sub-passes if they predict the spore and it also lasts really long unlike the sweep-stopper prank-thorn