Gen 2 An Old Team

[monster]

I made this team a while ago, trying somehow to fit Dragonite and Jolteon on a GSC team. Before you turn away, I will say that with prediction and timing, the team won 50% of the battles I fought. It was fun and novel. I will post it in the hopes that I did not post it already, but I would appreciate serious criticism other than "there's no hope for this team because UU Pokemon are on it" - that simply is not true.

Without further ado, here is the team:

Jolteon @Leftovers
Thunder
Growth
Substitute
HP Ice

This is a really good Pokemon, if Thunder should hit. It takes out Zapdos, a common lead, without any difficulty, or later in the game. I lead with it because I want to do as much damage as possible right off the bat, and will switch to someone else if I'm afraid it will get KO'd too early.

Dragonite @Leftovers
Dynamic Punch
Thunder
Double Edge/Extremespeed
Fire Blast/Surf

The last move slot was filler, as I cannot remember what I actually put. If Dynamic Punch hits, I can easily take out a Miltank in about five turns with this set (!). There's not much else to say, except that this Dragonite does do significant damage to a lot of threats, not least Snorlax, who thinks he can come in and take Special hits like there's no tomorrow, but is annihilate by Dynamic Punch and a subsequent Double Edge. I'm considering replacing this Dragonite with this Kingdra set, for obvious reasons:

Kingdra @Leftovers
Hydro Pump
Curse
Return/Double Edge
Rest

Most people know about this set, and it's probably the most popular, as Curse generally goes in Gen II. It's not as fun to use as Dragonite, however, so I would begrudge putting this on my team over good old 'Nite.

Suicune@Leftovers
Surf
Mirror Coat
Rest
Sleep Talk

I actually lead with this most of the time to catch Zapdos off guard, who is a common lead and think he can just Thunder Suicune and be done for the day. It works well, but the used up move slot is indeed a problem. Not much else to say.

Snorlax@Leftovers
Body Slam/Double Edge
Lovely Kiss
Earthquake
Selfdestruct

He's here to blow up on Pokemon and, of course, put Pokemon to sleep. Not much else to say other than the obvious.

Miltank@Leftovers
Curse
Body Slam
Milk Drink
Heal Bell

My cleric, and also physical tank. Skarmory really only became the default physical wall in RSE, in my opinion. I would say pre-RSE, Miltank was the premier physical sponge. I choose Curse over Growl because it ended up being more useful.

Machamp@Leftovers
Cross Chop
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Fire Blast/Vital Throw

He's here to take care of Snorlax, and I think he's a rather underrated counter. Should Cross Chop be a crit, it will take out Curselax easily, but of course no one uses Curselax anymore anyway. This Machamp tends to be a bit lackluster though, and fails against incoming Starmies, who is a major threat to this team if I don't manage to Mirror Coat a Thunderbolt, or outright KO it with Jolteon.

So that's my team. I'm sorry if I double-posted this, but that was a long time ago, and I don't think I gave good descriptions then anyway, or defended it as much as I could. I will probably disband it and try to find a way to put Scizor on an OU GSC team. I just wish Showdown ran Gen II. Hmm...

 

[magic9mushroom]

Showdown does run Gen 2, it's just got a load of bugs.

Not seeing the point of Vital Throw on a Machamp that can't Curse. Isn't the whole point of Vital Throw to block Roar while dealing damage?

Also not seeing Miltank being great here. For all that I hate Growl, Curse doesn't do the same job for Miltank either against Snorlax (since Miltank now can't switch out) or against CurseRoarers (which will keep cancelling Miltank's boosts while gaining more themselves). And Heal Bell doesn't seem optimally useful on such an offensive team. I'd be tempted to swap out Miltank for CursePass Umbreon.

 

[Jorgen]

but of course no one uses Curselax anymore anyway

What? It's the most popular set. Just about everyone uses Curselax.

My overall impression of the team is that it's fundamentally flawed in a way that's not easy to fix except by totally dismantling it. It lacks Resters, Snorlax switch-ins, Legendary Electric switch-ins, a Phazer, and anything to play the Spikes game, and in place of those things it packs a couple of mediocre mixed attackers and stall mons that don't synergize very well at all. Simply put, you're going to get worn down before you manage to do enough damage.

With that said, I can at least give you a more constructive rate on your sets:

Jolteon: Not a bad set at all. Pairs well with your Miltank to avoid being crippled permanently by status. It doesn't really switch into anything very well, though, because it lacks Rest (although it struggles to do that even with Rest).

Dragonite: The standard is DPunch/Double-Edge/Ice Beam/Thunder. You're not really going to catch anyone "off guard" with Dnite anymore, but it still does damage because it's got great coverage. Keep Double-Edge over ExtremeSpeed so you can actually hurt Raikou, and I'd consider Ice Beam over Fire Blast/Surf so that Zapdos doesn't wall you.

[Kingdra: Don't use this. It beats the Normal Resists that counter Curselax (bar Misdreavus), but it still gets 3HKOed on the Special Side by Electrics, can't beat Curselax at all, and needs to set up a lot of Curses before it's legitimately scary. It's a nice non-AA Vap counter, but you already have plenty of things to deal with that (including Dnite itself).]

Suicune: Don't lead this, it gives MC away. Why else would you lead Suicune? Speaking of the set, Sleep Talk + Mirror Coat is iffy. You'll never want to risk Sleep Talking Surf against Raikou or what have you, and of course if you Sleep Talk Mirror Coat as Marowak switches out or something, you've blown your cover. Plus what's to stop Snorlax from switching in all day? Plus your team currently lacks a Phazer, and Suicune is the only thing that can really play that role on the team as it is. Using Roar > Sleep Talk is a quick fix to allow you to keep Mirror Coat while adding a Phazer to your team, but I don't like that set too much, especially without Spikes.

Snorlax: A surprising Lax set for sure, you're likely to get kills but at the cost of having any decent defenses against Electrics! You can't count on MC from Cune all the time.

Miltank: It works.

Machamp: Why is Vital Throw a slash? Other than that this set is fine, although it will struggle to do damage to Starmie (although that's pretty much all Machamp sets).

 

[monster]

Machamp: Why is Vital Throw a slash? Other than that this set is fine, although it will struggle to do damage to Starmie (although that's pretty much all Machamp sets).

I don't think I actually use Vital Throw, but favor HP Bug or Fire Blast instead. I think I put it there under the idea that it has priority over Roar (?), but you're right, no one is going to phaze Machamp out without Curse anyway.

Showdown does run Gen 2, it's just got a load of bugs.

Also not seeing Miltank being great here. For all that I hate Growl, Curse doesn't do the same job for Miltank either against Snorlax (since Miltank now can't switch out) or against CurseRoarers (which will keep cancelling Miltank's boosts while gaining more themselves). And Heal Bell doesn't seem optimally useful on such an offensive team. I'd be tempted to swap out Miltank for CursePass Umbreon.

I actually like that idea. Actually, I put Rest on Dragonite at some point in order to have some recovery, but it didn't work all that well in the long run.

 

[magic9mushroom]

I think I put it there under the idea that it has priority over Roar (?),

The idea with Vital Throw is that it's negative priority, and thus can go second even against Roar if Machamp is slower (and Roar/Whirlwind in GSC don't work if they go first). So yes, it stops phazers from countering CurseChamp - not that they do a particularly good job of that anyway.