Icicle Spear.None of those Pokémon can OHKO with an Ice-type move when Garchomp has Yache Berry, making it a fantastic lure for those mons.
Icicle Spear.None of those Pokémon can OHKO with an Ice-type move when Garchomp has Yache Berry, making it a fantastic lure for those mons.
He never once mentioned Mamoswine, so I don't know why you're bringing it into the conversation. I said none of those Pokémon can OHKO...and they can't. But since you have brought up Mamoswine, I will rebut. Mamoswine is OHKOed by Earthquake at +2. Assuming you come in on Garchomp as it Swords Dances, or after it has gotten a kill at +2, you have to Ice Shard. If you don't, you get KOed. the only situation where Mamo would be able to get off an Icicle Spear is if it still has its Focus Sash intact. But if there's a Mamoswine at full health on your opponent's team and you don't know its item, I don't know why you would set up Garchomp anyway. Point is that Yache Berry beats all of the Pokémon that he mentioned, and even beats most Mamoswine that rely on Ice Shard to revenge kill Garchomp.Icicle Spear.
I don't think anyone is saying Garchomp can't sweep and of course it can boost, but it's problem is it's speed. 102 is great, but when you remember the Starmies, Keldeo, Latis, Zam, etc. I think it's best sets are the Scarfed ones, since it has great bulk even if it faces another Scarfer, and the SR lead set since it can even outspeed Jolly Mamo with an Adamant nature and lay down the rocks as well as putting immediate offensive pressure on the opponent from the go.
Actually, that's exactly what he said. I agree that its Scarf set is amazing, as is the SR set (which is the first set in the new analysis update that's being worked on right now), but its sweeping potential should not be underestimated, especially when it can lure and KO big threats like Starmie, Keldeo, and other Ice-type-coverage Pokémon. All I'm saying is that Garchomp's Speed is not bad, and with a Yache Berry, it doesn't care about most of those Pokémon. Obviously if a team has Keldeo and Starmie on it, for example, then Garchomp won't sweep. But that could be said of a team with Scarf Keldeo and Mamoswine for Dragonite or Jolteon and Scarf Keldeo; it doesn't make it any less potent of a sweeper.I regret the bad scarfer thing, cuz that is more personal presence. And while it is fast, it has no way of boosting. Any team with a starmie keldeo lati jolteon hp ice gengar alakazam and any almost any scarfer wont have too big of chomp problems, while other sweeper, like voclarona breloom dnite etc can beat their checks if they boost far enough or with the right move/item, while garchomp has no way around that speed. And while none of those can switch in safely, they can all easily revenge. Now I'm not saying that garchomp is a bad mon, just that it is a wallbreaker, not a sweeper. Now, if it got rock polish, damn double dance chomp would be a threat
Don't forget about the mix set, which is very popular lately and can run Energy Ball to beat Rotom-W / Gastrodon / etc.Eh I don't agree with Jirach in S-rank I personally find it easy to force it out. Maybe it's because I almost always use defensive Rotom-W on all my teams but yeah I just don't think it's that good the Scarf set gets outsped by the extremely common Scarf Keldeo and Scarf Terrakion, also Scarfchomp. The Calm Mind set in the rain usually loses to Band Ttar or perish song Celebi. Paralflinch loses to Gliscor or Landorus-T or Heatran or Rotom-W. SpD sets are beaten by the same Pokemon I listed. Don't get me wrong it's a great Pokemon in it's own right but I just don't think it fits up there with Tyranitar, Politoed and Keldeo. I honestly think Kyurem-B is a better candidate for S-rank, I think anyone who has used it right would agree with me.
Considering that you named different counters to each set, Jirachi clearly is one of the most versatile Pokemon in the tier. At team preview, you don't know what set it has, which makes it so amazing. Is your Scarfchomp going to kill that Jirachi with EQ, or will a Shuca Berry activate, and ice punch leaving you down a revenge killer? Will Celebi wall the SubCM set, or is a scarf U-turn destroy it? Can Jellicent predict a Body Slam, or will it let SubCM set up all over it, before getting hit up with a T-bolt? Can your Rotom-W safely come in, or is it 2HKOed by Energy Ball after rocks?Eh I don't agree with Jirach in S-rank I personally find it easy to force it out. Maybe it's because I almost always use defensive Rotom-W on all my teams but yeah I just don't think it's that good the Scarf set gets outsped by the extremely common Scarf Keldeo and Scarf Terrakion, also Scarfchomp. The Calm Mind set in the rain usually loses to Band Ttar or perish song Celebi. Paralflinch loses to Gliscor or Landorus-T or Heatran or Rotom-W. SpD sets are beaten by the same Pokemon I listed. Don't get me wrong it's a great Pokemon in it's own right but I just don't think it fits up there with Tyranitar, Politoed and Keldeo. I honestly think Kyurem-B is a better candidate for S-rank, I think anyone who has used it right would agree with me.
I've used Kyurem-Black pretty extensively actually, and I think A-Rank is just fine for it. S-Rank is home to metagame titans that need no support. Take Keldeo for example; sure there are pokemon that have good synergy with it, Politoed can power up it's Hydro Pump and Tyranitar can pursuit trap it's checks, but Keldeo can function just fine without either of those things. Then, look at the description for A-Rank:Eh I don't agree with Jirach in S-rank I personally find it easy to force it out. Maybe it's because I almost always use defensive Rotom-W on all my teams but yeah I just don't think it's that good the Scarf set gets outsped by the extremely common Scarf Keldeo and Scarf Terrakion, also Scarfchomp. The Calm Mind set in the rain usually loses to Band Ttar or perish song Celebi. Paralflinch loses to Gliscor or Landorus-T or Heatran or Rotom-W. SpD sets are beaten by the same Pokemon I listed. Don't get me wrong it's a great Pokemon in it's own right but I just don't think it fits up there with Tyranitar, Politoed and Keldeo. I honestly think Kyurem-B is a better candidate for S-rank, I think anyone who has used it right would agree with me.
Does this not fit Kyurem-Black perfectly? Kyurem-Black is capable of 2HKOing anything in the tier, yeah but it requires support if you want it to work well. A spinner is wise to have, as well as answers to top threats that force Kyurem-B out when it's not behind a sub like faster dragons, Breloom, Keldeo, etc. Not only that, but it has flaws that make it sort of inconsistent. It's bad defensive typing comes to bite it in the ass, it's weak to most priorities, all Hazards, it's not fast, and it has an awkward movepool that doesn't work well with it's stat spread. So no, I think Kyurem-Black is a solid A-Rank.A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.
Only Water Pulse CM Jirachi can parafuse, and this set is admittedly problematic for SpD Scizor, but fortunately it is not even used enough to show up in the usage stats.Someone mentioned SpD Scizor beating SubCM. You parafuse it...and it dies eventually.
Guess what: Specially Defensive Scizor is not used at all.Only Water Pulse CM Jirachi can parafuse, and this set is admittedly problematic for SpD Scizor, but fortunately it is not even used enough to show up in the usage stats.
| Adamant:252/252/0/0/4/0 21.940% |
| Adamant:248/252/0/0/8/0 8.152% |
| Jolly:4/252/0/0/0/252 6.670% |
| Adamant:4/252/0/0/0/252 6.520% |
| Adamant:248/252/0/0/0/8 4.781% |
| Adamant:0/252/0/0/4/252 4.137% |
| Other 47.800% |
| Roost 14.696% |
It doesn't matter if it used or not, it matters that you have the option to use it to deal with most common Jirachi sets. SpD Scizor is a viable and solid set in OU, regardless of how much it is used (usage does not equal to viability), so if you want a solid all-around Jirachi check you can use it.Guess what: Specially Defensive Scizor is not used at all.
It may be somewhere in that 47.8%... But I doubt it's much. Since Roost is used on most Specially Defensive Scizor, I'll derive from that.Code:| Adamant:252/252/0/0/4/0 21.940% | | Adamant:248/252/0/0/8/0 8.152% | | Jolly:4/252/0/0/0/252 6.670% | | Adamant:4/252/0/0/0/252 6.520% | | Adamant:248/252/0/0/0/8 4.781% | | Adamant:0/252/0/0/4/252 4.137% | | Other 47.800% |
So you're just making your own arguement invalid because specially defensive scizor isn't common at all, at 15% (and mind, some of them aren't even specially defensive).Code:| Roost 14.696% |
It doesn't matter if it used or not, it matters that you have the option to use it to deal with most common Jirachi sets. SpD Scizor is a viable and solid set in OU, regardless of how much it is used (usage does not equal to viability), so if you want a solid all-around Jirachi check you can use it.
that was more of a fun fact rather than my argument, I point you to the point where I said "I'll type my real arguments out later" and my edit that happened laterIt warranted more than 1 test because it was banned, then un-banned again after Sand Veil was decided to really be the only broken thing about Chomper. DPPt Latias was actually considered, well, is being considered for re-testing at a later point. Look around RoA and there is a thread discussing how Latias could actually diverse the metagame, especially considering what Gen 4 has come too, FWG cores with Flygon or Rotom added on. It was hard to make a decision whether it was broken or not, I don't see how that makes it anymore broken. Sand Veil had a lot to do with Evasion Clause, which was in general a very haxxy move which was just a complete and utter joke. It was very good that we banned it, it added un-needed luck in the game. SubSD Veil Gliscor was nowhere near broken, but Sand Veil overall just decreases the luck in games.
Basically, the amount of Suspect Tests doesn't mean anything is more broken, it just meant it was harder to decide if it was actually broken or not. Also, World Tour players? You mean World Cup?
Alakazam w/o HP Ice is losing to dual CHOMP anyway, HP ICe Gengar is really a waste of gengar when it could be one of it's sets that got it to A rank, and Jolteon isn't that good in this current metagame, it finds itself being compared to thundurus-t for power and rotom-w for subtyping, levitate and bulk, and all of these are beaten by Yache Chomp regardlessAny team with a starmie keldeo lati jolteon hp ice gengar alakazam and any almost any scarfer wont have too big of chomp problems,
As I pointed out, the fact that garchomp will die to anything faster is pretty much bullshit.Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.
As good as chomp is, it doesn't fit into that description. Garchomp can't boost speed, so any faster pokemon can come in an kill it with ease, stopping a sweep. As far as walling goes, name one good player who runs a wall set. Finally, garchomp's team support stops and ends with stealth rock.
What I'm saying is that you're making your own argument invalid due to how rare Specially Defensive Scizor is, while you shake off any arguments that Jirachi can beat Scizor by saying "Those sets aren't used much so it doesn't really matter."It doesn't matter if it used or not, it matters that you have the option to use it to deal with most common Jirachi sets. SpD Scizor is a viable and solid set in OU, regardless of how much it is used (usage does not equal to viability), so if you want a solid all-around Jirachi check you can use it.
Well, what if the Jirachi in question does run such a set that can beat Scizor (SubCM, any set with Fire Punch / HP Fire)? The fact that Jirachi can beat Scizor is important. Many players won't run Specially defensive Scizor to beat Jirachi anyway, and it's not even guaranteed to beat Jirachi. The fact that Jirachi can screw over many if its counters with the right set makes it so versatile. S Rank fits Jirachi just fine.Only Water Pulse CM Jirachi can parafuse, and this set is admittedly problematic for SpD Scizor, but fortunately it is not even used enough to show up in the usage stats.