Mewtwo

[stage7_4]

We've got a thread on the other three legends and about every mega, so how did we miss this guy?

Name: Mewtwo
Pokedex Number: 150
Type: Psychic
Base Stats: 106/110/90/154/90/130
Ability: Pressure (Hidden Ability: Unnerve)


Name: Mewtwo X
Type: Psychic/Fighting
Base Stats: 106/190/100/154/100/130
Ability: Steadfast

Name: Mewtwo Y
Type: Psychic
Base Stats: 106/150/70/194/120/140
Ability: Insomnia

Notable moves:
Psystrike, Aura sphere, Psycho Cut, zen headbutt, recover, brick break (it's best physical fighting move I know of), drain punch, earthquake, shadow ball, thunderbolt, ice beam, flamethrower, elemental punches, hurricane (through an event), calm mind, bulk up

Guess who's back with some brand new tricks? The original legendary has got two new flavors:

Mewtwo X gains sky high attack, keeps his old sp.attack, and gains slight defense buffs. In addition it gains the fighting type. Steadfast is the new ability, which is cool? I guess?

Mewtwo Y stays a pure psychic but shoots its sp.attack to nuclear levels. To keep it interesting, it also gains a small attack bonus and a speed bonus, with a buff to sp.def. Unfortunately, at the cost of some regular defense. It's new ability is insomnia, which provides a nice check to choice scarf Darkrai's Dark Void antics.

Potential sets:

Psycho Killer Y
-Psystrike
-Taunt
-Ice Beam
-Fire blast/Aura Sphere
Ability: Pressure -> Insomnia
Item: Mewtwonite Y
Nature: Timid

Same old staple from GenV, now faster (and almost as strong). Regular Mewtwo could run the same set with a life orb or choice specs (with no calm mind of course), but should run Timid over Modest to deal with the lower speed.

Bulk-two
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Zen Headbutt/Psycho Cut
-Taunt/Earthquake
Ability: Pressure -> Steadfast
Item: Mewtwonite X
Nature: Jolly

190 attack and a semi-healing fighting move? Yes please. Definitely taking advantage of Mewtwo's increased bulk. Taunt shuts many of your checks, but Earthquake might be worth the coverage.

Still, regular mewtwo isn't out of the picture, keeping life orb and choice specs options. And new threats are appearing in Xerneas, Yvetal, Aegislash, and others. While there is no doubt Mewtwo will make a big impact, just how will that effect the metagame?

 

[Vryheid]

I've been trying out a Bulk Up mixxed attacking set on Mewtwo X on wifi. Unfortunately it suffers a severe case of four moveslot syndrome and doesn't have the bulk to set up for very long. I was hoping Mewtwo has a better Fighting STAB move than Brick Break but it doesn't seem that way. I suppose something like Zen Headbutt/Drain Punch/Fire Blast/Bulk Up would work as a set, but bulky Psychic types could still wall it to hell and back. Also, we can't get that set without access to the BW2 move tutors, so for now we're stuck with Psycho Cut and Brick Break.

Overall, I feel like Mewtwo X is fun to use and a good surprise to usual counters, but that huge attack stat seems somewhat redundant due to its access to Psystrike.

 

[Jukain]

It's fairly interesting that Mega Mewtwo X gets the high attack, as it can become an extremely effective mixed attacker. Its offenses become very high; it will be able to run a physical set with special coverage moves to wreck typical physical walls, and has the wide array of coverage moves it needs to do so.

The Y Evolution would tbh be forgettable if it didn't have such high Speed, enabling to outrun the fastest of Ubers threats and some of its Scarfers. I see it utilizing its Special Defense to set up and wreak havoc.

Mega Mewtwo Y's 106/90/120 defenses also lend it to a slightly more defensive build I would think. I mean they're not amazing, but Mega Mewtwo Y is powerful, and that Special Defense could lead to it being a decent switch-in to certain threats, at the very least comfortably allowing it to CM on special attackers.

 

[stage7_4]

Mega Mewtwo Y's 106/90/120 defenses also lend it to a slightly more defensive build I would think. I mean they're not amazing, but Mega Mewtwo Y is powerful, and that Special Defense could lead to it being a decent switch-in to certain threats, at the very least comfortably allowing it to CM on special attackers.

That's incorrect. Mega Mewtwo Y suffers a defense drop to 70, making a defensive build dubious (especially with priority shadow sneak Aegislash). Mega Mewtwo X is the one with better overall defenses, even with a little less Sp.Def than Mega Mewtwo Y.

 

[Surgo]

Physical Mewtwo has always had the issue since Gen 4 of not actually having a solid physical movepool like its special one outside of Bulk Up. It used to have a really good one, then the physical/special split happened and it didn't get the Claw moves to make up for it.

Without some kind of tutoring or other learnset change, I'm afraid that's going to remain the issue.

 

[Rudoku]

Honestly I see no point in running M-Mewtwo X when Psystrike exists.

Style counts sometimes.

 

[Haruno]

Honestly I see no point in running M-Mewtwo X when Psystrike exists.

It loses its bug weakness which matters alot, physical > special in ubers, not to mention MM2Y is balls.

 

[BlazingBarrager]

It also gets a STAB boost for Aura Sphere now, which can be handy in a Mix set.

 

[Skyblade12]

If you run a mixed set on M-Mewtwo X then you're splitting Evs between offenses (you'll definitely want maxed speed) lowering its damage potential, while M-Mewtwo Y can just maximize special attack and hit hard from both sides of the spectrum with Psystrike and Aura Sphere. Is there anything M-Mewtwo X is beating more reliably than normal Mewtwo or M-Mewtwo Y that way?

What about a full special M-Mewtwo X? You keep your STAB on Psystrike, and gain STAB on Aura Sphere. Your last move can be that same coverage Ice Beam. I'm not sure how Aura Sphere's damage would compare to M-M2 Y's, but the other moves would be weaker. Still, with more physical defense and losing some important weaknesses, it might be a possibility for a bulkier version, wouldn't it?

 

[Haruno]

If you run a mixed set on M-Mewtwo X then you're splitting Evs between offenses (you'll definitely want maxed speed) lowering its damage potential, while M-Mewtwo Y can just maximize special attack and hit hard from both sides of the spectrum with Psystrike and Aura Sphere. Is there anything M-Mewtwo X is beating more reliably than normal Mewtwo or M-Mewtwo Y that way?

Uturn weak, scarf weak, good enough reason on why mewtwo Y is shit.

 

[Luigi Bros.]

Why is Mega Mewtwo Y's primary nature Modest?

 

[Skyblade12]

Why is Mega Mewtwo Y's primary nature Modest?

Because it already gets a speed boost over normal Mewtwo, and increasing Special Attack just makes it hurt things that much more. That's my guess, anyway.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Neither mmx or mmy are that impressive, but mmx is definitely the most interesting one. Neutrality to bug and dark and better overall bulk are really good buffs when you compare to its normal form. The problem is, it just dont have a strong physical stab to use. The closest thing would be zen headbutt, which is a 80 base power move. Also if you wanna go mixed, youre better off using normal mewtwo with psystrike anyway. Mmy has no real niche. It fares even worse against genesect and giratina-o now and is weaker than life orb two. I would never waste my mega slot with something that offers very little to nothing over its normal counterpart. Also you need timid for it just like the other mewtwos, or else darkrai will outspeed you.

 

[Shadow-XIII]

Mewtwo Y will still suffer from the same checks as regular mewtwo (looking at you choice scarf Genesect), so really don't see the point of wasting a mega evolution there. Still, I could be wrong, since 780 bst with that 194 sp. att is just awesome. Mewtwo X will play way differently than mewtwo, mostly due to it's typing.

 

[I2edShift]

Edit: Nevermind, pointless to bother.

 

[Haruno]

Neither mmx or mmy are that impressive, but mmx is definitely the most interesting one. Neutrality to bug and dark and better overall bulk are really good buffs when you compare to its normal form. The problem is, it just dont have a strong physical stab to use. The closest thing would be zen headbutt, which is a 80 base power move. Also if you wanna go mixed, youre better off using normal mewtwo with psystrike anyway. Mmy has no real niche. It fares even worse against genesect and giratina-o now and is weaker than life orb two. I would never waste my mega slot with something that offers very little to nothing over its normal counterpart. Also you need timid for it just like the other mewtwos, or else darkrai will outspeed you.

You know the people here from ou are just going to say that losing LO recoil is a big deal because yknow it preserves mewtwo's longevity and how gene/gira-o aren't a threat.

You know, for a game that's been out less than a week, that hasn't had any time to develop any metagame in the slightest, you should really stop going around these boards making blanked de-facto statements like they're absolute truth.

They are truth though, that's why mewtwo is balls in ubers.

 

[BlueSuperSonic1]

Number 3 Usage(in Gen 5 Ubers) is definitely terrible, right?

On topic though, I think that while X is certainly more interesting due to its gained Fighting-Type and shifted focus to physical attacking, Y will probably be better, mostly due to how it's just a straight-up buffed version of Mewtwo. On top of that, X doesn't really have any Fighting moves to take advantage of its new STAB; all I can think of atm are Aura Sphere and Brick Break.

 

[Vryheid]

Honestly I see no point in running M-Mewtwo X when Psystrike exists.

I agree with you to an extent, but Mewtwo X's niche is out there. Bulk Up + Drain Punch can OHKO physically defensive Chansey, something even a boosted Psystrike on any Mewtwo set cannot do. The move also allows it to constantly stay healthy while keeping momentum, which can allow it to sweep longer and get more boosts in. It can easily swap out Psycho Cut with something like Earthquake or Stone Edge which will still hit pretty damn hard even without STAB and can obliterate usual revenge killers like Ho-oh or Dialga. Given the potential popularity of Assault Vest Dialga, the ability to OHKO the latter may be important.

 

[Haruno]

Number 3 Usage(in Gen 5 Ubers) is definitely terrible, right?

On topic though, I think that while X is certainly more interesting due to its gained Fighting-Type and shifted focus to physical attacking, Y will probably be better, mostly due to how it's just a straight-up buffed version of Mewtwo. On top of that, X doesn't really have any Fighting moves to take advantage of its new STAB; all I can think of atm are Aura Sphere and Brick Break.

Usage =/= viability.

 

[PKMN1]

Usage =/= viability.

yeah, you're right many of the pokemon in the lower tiers are just as good as the pokemon in the higher tiers, just because a pokemon is in a lower tier does not make it bad

 

[BlueSuperSonic1]

The two, however, are correlated. A Pokemon is not likely to reach that much usage if it's, as you're saying, "balls."

 

[NoahStar]

Usage =/= viability.

Right, because Scizor just looks badass and his #1 usage for almost 3 consecutive years has nothing to do with his viability. In the same way, Mewtwo being able to set up on the likes of Kyogre and finally win against Blissey 1v1 have nothing to do with his viability or usage. Everyone just uses him because he looks cool >.>

Not sure if you're a bad troll or if you don't understand how Pokemon work....

Stupidity aside, I agree that MMY is slightly underwhelming. That Sp.Atk stat is absolutely ridiculous but is it really hitting things harder than Life Orb Mewtwo? The speed may indeed be all that is going for it but I agree that Genesect will still have no problem dealing with it.

MMX on the other hand is very interesting. It really reminds me of Kyurem-B; nothing great on the physical side but makes for a very surprising specially based mixed sweeper. I can see something along the lines of Aura Sphere, EQ (hits Assault Vest Dialga), Psystrike, and Ice Beam/Fire Blast. That fighting STAB is going to be the main draw. I don't think Ferrothorn will be giving Mewtwo problems anymore especially with the huge rain nerf.

 

[Haruno]

Shouldn't people here actually play ubers before commenting on how something's viability works?

 

[NoahStar]

You know Gen 6 ubers is running on Pokemon Showdown, right? People are already testing Mewtwo to see how it fares.

 

[Articanus]

Shouldn't people here actually play ubers before commenting on how something's viability works?

I'll take that as a challenge.

So you're telling me that Mewtwo is shit because it loses momentum in a metagame where losing momentum even just once can spell defeat? Especially in a metagame where permanent rain was dominant, Genesect didn't have to fear most of mewtwo's moveset and switched in for free at least once, which in ubers could be enough?

If it was gen IV, I would have agreed with you. That kind of shit would have worked too well, and Mewtwo would have probably been called shit.

However, in gen V there was something introduced that I absolutely hate called "team preview." What that allows both players to do is be notified that a situation can occur before it happens; and as I am sure you are aware because you play ubers so frequently, this is incredibly relevant in a metagame where decisions are even more high-risk high-reward than even that of gen V OU.

So yes, genesect vs Mewtwo does suck because it takes the high risk high reward mechanics of ubers and puts it more towards medium risk, high reward for the genesect player. Though I must say, in a metagame where SR + Spikes are pretty simple to get down without losing as much momentum, constantly switching around on your part might be your undoing. This coupled with the fact that mewtwo hits genesect on the switch-in does no favors for the genesect player, as in all honesty he gets at most two "free" switch-ins... but mewtwo can learn flamethrower, I'm sure, so that directly might not be the case.

And as I'm sure you know, it's even a viable option to allow genesect to come in, tank some damage, lose mewtwo but gain the free switch after u-turn has brought something out. Losing pokemon and conserving momentum? Not exclusive to suicide starters. So maybe even without team preview, mewtwo could have existed... who knows. What we know is that mewtwo has enough stats and movepool behind him to terrify eveyone, even if there are some decent checks to him.

This situations becomes more complicated if the genesect user was using it to cover more than just mewtwo, which both players would decently be aware of just because of team preview. But I won't talk anymore about this.
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I like Mega Mewtwo Y better because 140 base speed is insane, and even though you lose defensive stats and some damage, you still hit hard enough to scare everything and no LO recoil gives him an unfair amount of freedom to do what he wants. Mega Mewtwo X has superior typing and bulk, but honestly I don't see why he wants to be part fighting type or why he would want to be physical... selfdestruct is better, I guess? I think a subpunch set would be rather funny on it, actually.