Pokémon Zygarde

[RufflesPro]

Why people go hatin' on this guy?

This guy without a doubt outclasses Flygon. And he has some things that make him outclass Garchomp: Can survive at least 1 hit from almost anything(Garchomp can't), Can set up (Garchomp almost all the time fails to set up without a Yache Berry / Focus Sash, and somethings OHKO him other than ice), Has access to DD (which makes his "Mediocre Atk" do a lot of damage, and his "Mediocre speed" outspeed a lot of things), Has Access to Extreme Speed. <---- Is it me or did people forget how viable that is?

And 95 Spe isn't bad at all *cough*White-Kyurem*cough*

Now Zygarde doesn't outclass Garchomp horribly, Scarf Garchomp is arguably better. But other than that, I don't see why Garchomp can be better than Zygarde.

 

[Haruno]

Why people go hatin' on this guy?

This guy without a doubt outclasses Flygon. And he has some things that make him outclass Garchomp: Can survive at least 1 hit from almost anything(Garchomp can't), Can set up (Garchomp almost all the time fails to set up without a Yache Berry / Focus Sash, and somethings OHKO him other than ice), Has access to DD (which makes his "Mediocre Atk" do a lot of damage, and his "Mediocre speed" outspeed a lot of things), Has Access to Extreme Speed. <---- Is it me or did people forget how viable that is?

And 95 Spe isn't bad at all *cough*White-Kyurem*cough*

Now Zygarde doesn't outclass Garchomp horribly, Scarf Garchomp is arguably better. But other than that, I don't see why Garchomp can be better than Zygarde.

it's weak, so in order to set up it has to take a hit because it doesn't provide offensive pressure to anything. It's still slow even after a boost, It's still weak after a boost. Not to mention that ground/drag is a pretty horrible defensive typing, it works for chomp since chomp is an offensive mon but for a bulky setup sweeper? yeah..... no

 

[RufflesPro]

it's weak, so in order to set up it has to take a hit because it doesn't provide offensive pressure to anything. It's still slow even after a boost, It's still weak after a boost. Not to mention that ground/drag is a pretty horrible defensive typing, it works for chomp since chomp is an offensive mon but for a bulky setup sweeper? yeah..... no

It's weakly offensive but it's bulky, just take a hit and set up, next turn you outspeed the pokemon, and hey, you have +1 Atk so you can actually do something. AND IT HAS SOME CRAZY BULK! and how is slow after a boost, then you are telling me that White-Kyurem is slow with a scarf, if you agree, well guess what, White-Kyurem is Ubers. I know he has enormous SpA, but this guy has ENORMOUS BULK.
Garchomp sweeps, but so does Zygarde after Dragon Dance. Not to mention that this thing has coil too.

 

[Haruno]

It's weakly offensive but it's bulky, just take a hit and set up, next turn you outspeed the pokemon, and hey, you have +1 Atk so you can actually do something. AND IT HAS SOME CRAZY BULK! and how is slow after a boost, then you are telling me that White-Kyurem is slow with a scarf, if you agree, well guess what, White-Kyurem is Ubers. I know he has enormous SpA, but this guy has ENORMOUS BULK.
Garchomp sweeps, but so does Zygarde after Dragon Dance. Not to mention that this thing has coil too.

Are we talking about ubers again? Because if we are then zygarde has piss poor bulk. Also white kyurem is slow by uber standards, outspeeding the slowest things in ubers does not make a mon fast by any means. Zygarde is even worse since it absolutely must take a hit to setup, even after setting up it can't ko in most circumstances and takes yet another hit, by which point it'll be near/dead. That and having no good dragon stab helps.

 

[Yamborski]

Azumarill is immune to Outrage and Mamoswine never directly swicthes on a dragon anyways, it just revenge kills.

Azumarill is OHKOed by +1 LO Earthquake while Mamoswine falls to the same hit. Zygarde can sponge a priority move from either of them and even avoid the counter hit by wiping them out with +1 LO Extremespeed. Mamoswine CAN OHKO Zygarde with Banded Adamant Ice Shard but the point isn't that Zygarde has no counters. Everything has counters. The point is that nothing else IN THE GAME combines Zygarde's traits of Ground / Dragon + Dragon Dance. Its massive bulk differentiates it from other Dragon Dancers allowing it to easily reach +2.

This was before the fairy type existed. And Flygon was instantly kicked down to UU whenever Garchomp was available in OU. Now Zygarde faces competition from both of them, and one is UU. Do the math.

Yeah because Garchomp is better in every way besides Levitate and U-turn. BUT NEITHER OF THEM HAVE DRAGON DANCE + MORE BULK THAN HIPPOWDON.

Speed isn't the problem,

You just said speed is the problem.

it's the low base 100 attack.

Use its bulk to get to +2. 100 base attack is more than enough. It sweeps at +1 too. Also due to the relatively high speed + Dragon Dance it can afford to run Adamant. Adamant Zygarde has about 91% the power of Jolly Garchomp.

It's tied with Flygon for the weakest physically oriented dragon

Flygon's power was never really the problem. Being outclassed by Garchomp in literally every stat was the problem. Flygon was OU in every metagame that Garchomp was not allowed in.

and it's slower than it to boot.

You literally just said speed isn't the problem.

Also. Dragon. Dance.

Mew isn't OHKO'd by Ice Beam, Moonblast and Draco Meteor, arguably the 3 best special attacks in the game now that perma-weather is gone.

Instead Mew is weak to Pursuit, trapped by Gengar Shadow Ball, and has a single, weak STAB. I would rather pick Dragon / Ground over Psychic any day. Dragon / Ground is potentially the best offensive typing in the game and one of the better defensive typings.

Lando-T drops its Attack with Intimidate and 2HKO's at worst with HP Ice. Zygarde loses.

Zygarde 2HKOs and easily survives the HP Ice.

It doesn't have Flygon's offensive stats. In fact Flygon has the same attack and better speed. Those 5 speed points make a world of difference.

After a Dragon Dance Adamant Zygarde has the equivalent of 175 base attack and with 156 EVs, something like 132 base speed. Flygon can suck a dick if it thinks it can match Zygarde offensively.

The rest of your points are just as flawed but I just pointed out the most obvious ones.

Not flawed, you just don't know how to argue against any of them.

 

[Yamborski]

Garchomp is a better wall breaker, Scarfer, Bander, Sub user, and lead.

Zygarde gets Dragon Dance and Coil, two sets Garchomp is incapable of using meaning Garchomp literally will never outclass Zygarde at these roles. Garchomp will probably never sweep a team. Zygarde, late game at least, can single handedly incinerate one.

 

[jas61292]

Honestly, I have not really had much success with Dragon Dance (only used it a little, but was not impressed). HOWEVER, Coil Zygarde has been absolutely amazing. Its so easy to set up, hits hard after a boost, and Extremespeed makes it hard to be revenged.

A lot of people have been showing Coil sets as defensive/supportive, but to me, bulky offensive is still the way to go. The key, however, to me, is to completely ignore Dragon STAB. Dragon is an awesome type, but Outrage is incredibly unattractive for a Coil set, and Dragon Tail's negative priority is really not something I want, in addition to being weak. Instead, I've been using Stone Edge. EdgeQuake is amazing coverage as always, and, with a single Coil, any accuracy issues are gone completely. Paired with extremespeed and you have a really powerful Pokemon.

 

[Cold Fusion]

Honestly, I have not really had much success with Dragon Dance (only used it a little, but was not impressed). HOWEVER, Coil Zygarde has been absolutely amazing. Its so easy to set up, hits hard after a boost, and Extremespeed makes it hard to be revenged.

A lot of people have been showing Coil sets as defensive/supportive, but to me, bulky offensive is still the way to go. The key, however, to me, is to completely ignore Dragon STAB. Dragon is an awesome type, but Outrage is incredibly unattractive for a Coil set, and Dragon Tail's negative priority is really not something I want, in addition to being weak. Instead, I've been using Stone Edge. EdgeQuake is amazing coverage as always, and, with a single Coil, any accuracy issues are gone completely. Paired with extremespeed and you have a really powerful Pokemon.

May I ask, how did you distribute his EVs and what nature are you using?

 

[jas61292]

May I ask, how did you distribute his EVs and what nature are you using?

Personally, I've just been doing 252 HP / 252 Atk with Adamant. Once the metagame settles a bit I might want to move some to speed if it would help outpace a common threat or something, but for now, this has been working very well.

 

[Yamborski]

Personally, I've just been doing 252 HP / 252 Atk with Adamant. Once the metagame settles a bit I might want to move some to speed if it would help outpace a common threat or something, but for now, this has been working very well.

Run enough speed to outrun Mega Gengar at +1. This also beats all Scarfers at +2

 

[Lord Jesseus]

Honestly, I have not really had much success with Dragon Dance (only used it a little, but was not impressed). HOWEVER, Coil Zygarde has been absolutely amazing. Its so easy to set up, hits hard after a boost, and Extremespeed makes it hard to be revenged.

A lot of people have been showing Coil sets as defensive/supportive, but to me, bulky offensive is still the way to go. The key, however, to me, is to completely ignore Dragon STAB. Dragon is an awesome type, but Outrage is incredibly unattractive for a Coil set, and Dragon Tail's negative priority is really not something I want, in addition to being weak. Instead, I've been using Stone Edge. EdgeQuake is amazing coverage as always, and, with a single Coil, any accuracy issues are gone completely. Paired with extremespeed and you have a really powerful Pokemon.

Yeah, that's the set I think I decided on. Coil plays to Zygarde's strengths - bulk, decent power, and access to extremespeed. Coil helping Stone Edge is a nice bonus too. If he had Dragon Rush, the Dragon STAB might be worthwhile but as it is I don't think its necessary.

Unfortunately, I whimsically traded away my Zygarde in a wonder trade... Probably made some japanese kids day.
Motherfucker gave me a Liepard.

Run enough speed to outrun Mega Gengar at +1. This also beats all Scarfers at +2

I think you missed the part where he said he was running Coil rather than Dragon Dance. :p
That's definitely the way to go for DD sets though.

 

[Groombridge]

Coil plays to Zygarde's strengths - bulk, decent power, and access to extremespeed. Coil helping Stone Edge is a nice bonus too. If he had Dragon Rush, the Dragon STAB might be worthwhile but as it is I don't think its necessary.

+1 for Coil set. Zygarde gets the absolute most out of a Coil boost: it makes its so-so Atk usable, boosts its already impressive physical bulk and makes Stone Edge reliable. Dragon STAB isn't that great anymore, so EdgeQuake for coverage plus Extremespeed, hell yeah. Stone Edge gives it something for Talonflame too.

The issue is setting it up: so much forces it out.

• Anything with a fast Ice Beam/HP Ice (Galvantula seems to be running this a lot). If you can't KO with +1 ExtremeSpeed, Zygarde has to switch.
• Fast dragons - i.e. other dragons except Goodra - same thing.
• Zygarde outspeeds Goodra, but if you're not running Dragon STAB, you have to be at +2 at least to KO with EQ (in my experience). Goodra always has Dragon Pulse and often Ice Beam to KO back with. Goodra can't be fucked with; best to forfeit it you see one imo.
• Status is a real problem for it: Toxic cuts its bulk and burn completely ruins its day.
• Intimidate users, although it can wreck Gyara and the odd Staraptor with SE. Salamence is a check, as it lowers Zygarde's Atk and outspeeds for the KO, unless it's in Extremespeed range.
• Physical walls, unless they're badly damaged already: Skarm dgaf about Zygarde, Hippo will poison it, Ferro has Leech Seed.
• Fairies, although it'll normally outspeed the main three of Azumarill, Togekiss and Mawile. With enough boosts it can muscle past.

So yeah, just eliminate/badly damage all those things and you're good to go! Seems like a lot, but the same things mostly apply to Garchomp's SD set and Dragonite's DD set too.

It likes Kyurem-B as a partner: Kyu-B eliminates Dragonite, Starmie, 2HKOs Skarm, Hippo, Azumarill and Togekiss, with a scarf it catches the Latis (if they aren't scarfed - haven't seen one yet). Kyu-B needs it own support of course...

Unfortunately, I whimsically traded away my Zygarde in a wonder trade... Probably made some japanese kids day.
Motherfucker gave me a Liepard.

Japanese Kid used Trick!

 

[Lord Jesseus]

Azumarill is a problem, but EQ and Stone Edge should deal with Mawile and Togekiss respectively after a boost shouldn't they?

 

[GeneralMLD]

Garchomp is a better wall breaker, Scarfer, Bander, Sub user, and lead.

Zygarde gets Dragon Dance and Coil, two sets Garchomp is incapable of using meaning Garchomp literally will never outclass Zygarde at these roles. Garchomp will probably never sweep a team. Zygarde, late game at least, can single handedly incinerate one.

Zygardes strengths are more niche then Garchomps strengths. For example, a scarfed Garchomp will make short work against Zygarde or most dragons with a single use of Outrage. I mean if you can afford the chance opportunities to set up with Dragon Dance/coil, thats great, but Garchomp has access to swords dance on non scarfed sets, with his base speed still enough to move first on most occasions. Garchomp may not be able to sweep, but he takes out at least 2/6 (in my experience at least), and like you said, Garchomps strengths come in handy much more then Zygardes

 

[Yamborski]

Zygardes strengths are more niche then Garchomps strengths. For example, a scarfed Garchomp will make short work against Zygarde or most dragons with a single use of Outrage. I mean if you can afford the chance opportunities to set up with Dragon Dance/coil, thats great, but Garchomp has access to swords dance on non scarfed sets, with his base speed still enough to move first on most occasions. Garchomp may not be able to sweep, but he takes out at least 2/6 (in my experience at least), and like you said, Garchomps strengths come in handy much more then Zygardes

Garchomp can fulfill many more roles than Zygarde. No doubt it can with those stats / that movepool.

However Garchomp can not Dragon Dance sweep. It also can not use Coil. It also gets Extremespeed meaning it doesn't give a crap about Talonflame or Scarf Latios / Ice Shard Mamoswine or whatever at ~50%. Garchomp and Zygarde share virtually nothing besides typing. They are completely different Pokemon, each of whom have their own usable sets and uses in OU. Garchomp will not sweep a team. Zygarde will not break though walls. Understand that they outclass each other in different roles and should not be compared to one another in the same way that Flygon and Garchomp were.

 

[Mozilla Fennekin]

Why has no one mentioned Rock Slide? I at least saw Stone Edge on here, but if you're running Coil/Glare/DragonTail/Earthquake, Togekiss is gonna shit all over you. But Glare is super useful, that alone should serve a useful purpose in OU, and Dragon Tail would allow him to cripple multiple Pokemon, and with Coil, both DT and Rock Slide get perfect accuracy (the sad part is that dragon tail has negative priority), but he could possibly work with it. You could also get rid of Dragon Tail for Earthquake to deal with Jirachi.
Either way, I don't really get all the negativity here. Yes, his typing has been seen before, but come on, his movepool and stats are not bad. 108/95 is bad special bulk? Okay, Blissey.

 

[verycoolguy]

Why has no one mentioned Rock Slide?

with Coil, both DT and Rock Slide get perfect accuracy

I'm fairly certain Coil's accuracy boosts Stone Edge to perfect accuracy as well. The 25 BP difference is also pretty critical, especially considering Zygarde's [below] average Attack stat.

 

[Kadabrium]

his movepool and stats are not bad.

His movepool is not bad if he has like 6 move slots.
But there is only 4, not to mention he can't even afford to run too much attack evs.
When you see a +2 Espeed only does 80% to a smeargle, just lol.

 

[Mozilla Fennekin]

Alright, alright, so obviously even trying to counter Xerneas or Yveltal would give it no place in Ubers.
Still, I see him doing fairly well in OU. He won't break the metagame or anything, but he'll be at home. He might be a little too high for UU, but you never know.
As for those doubting his offensive capabilities, I agree that he won't sweep unless there's a lot of hazards, but stalling/phazing seems to work better with him.
Again, looking at him for Glare and Dragon Tail. That's probably his best niche.

 

[forgetstrategy]

I've been running a Bulky set-up set, using Coil, Dragon Dance(can't decide which, why not both?), EQ and Stone Miss, with leftovers as item and a 252/252/4 hp/attack/defense EV spread. It sets up on a physical attacker and (tries to) sweep their entire team.

 

[SomeDrunkRockLee]

I like the general idea of a coil/dragon tail set, which would have been awesome with hazard support.
Last gen.
But now we have fairies running around and tinker(bell)ing with everything, so I'd look for Xygarde down in UU. And even then offensive is useless with Gourgeist-Super walling the shit out of offensive zygarde.

 

[Kirbyofthestars]

I saw this on one of the earlier pages, I think... it was an idea about Weakness Policy Zygarde, and I must say, it works rather well; it's not even funny how many people try to hit it with a super-effective move (especially people with Azumarill), even after it's already used 1 or more Coils.
Though, the major flaw of the set is, of course, the lack of recovery (not to mention slight difficulty setting up if your opponent doesn't immediately decide to go for a super-effective move), which can harm Zygarde's performance in the long run if it isn't able to get enough boosts to OHKO anything with ExtremeSpeed or outspeed its opponent and take it out with Earthquake/Outrage/whatever move you're using.
As long as you're not going up against a special attacker, if anything is even reconsidering using a super-effective move against Zygarde, it'll take a lot longer for them to kill it, which does work in its advantage.

 

[Cingen]

So what would be the best nature for this guy? I held of catching him till now simply because i have no idea which nature and IVs to focus on..

I have no plans on using him at the moment, but I just want him to be at his best possible potential incase I someday do find him a slot in my team :)

I'm sorry for being this vague btw...

 

[Yamborski]

So what would be the best nature for this guy? I held of catching him till now simply because i have no idea which nature and IVs to focus on..

I have no plans on using him at the moment, but I just want him to be at his best possible potential incase I someday do find him a slot in my team :)

I'm sorry for being this vague btw...

Adamant if running Dragon Dance. Careful if running Coil.

 

[jas61292]

So what would be the best nature for this guy? I held of catching him till now simply because i have no idea which nature and IVs to focus on..

I have no plans on using him at the moment, but I just want him to be at his best possible potential incase I someday do find him a slot in my team :)

I'm sorry for being this vague btw...

It really depends what you want to do with it. Dragon Dance and Coil are obviously the best sets, but even within them there is variation in what you can do. DD sets like Adamant or Jolly, depending on how much outspeeding things matters to you. Coil on the other hand can run a lot of different things. I have done Adamant and Careful myself, both with a lot of success. I also have watched a friend of mine even use a Max Def Impish Coil set, and it actually worked very (surprisingly) well, as it could set up on just about anything physical. Its really a matter of preference, and at this point I would hesitate to call any one set best.