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Pokémon Aegislash
- Thread starter ArkWelder
- Start date
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Man this thing is a monster in the making. Metagame shifting. I agree with what a lot of you have said, Aegislash can be predictable. The problem is, it's not like most "predictable" Pokemon in that you don't know what it's going to do the second you see it. Because Aegislash has so many different possible movesets, it's going to take a turn or two for us to realize what it's doing once it is sent in, and that could end up being deadly. It's extremely versatile, and I can't really thing of another Pokemon with this much customization potential. It's ultimate downfall is 4 moveslot syndrome.
I love the SD set. King's Shield, Swords Dance, Shadow Sneak, and Sacred Sword could be intriguing to me...but the fact that Sableye and Spiritomb completely wall it is a concern. I like a mixed set with Shadow Ball, Iron Head, Shadow Sneak, and King's Shield. To be honest, it's not the sets themselves that are giving me problems deciding which route to take, it's the natures. This guy can run almost any nature. The speed reducing natures are great assets, as are the classic sweeper natures. Even after scouring every page here, I still can't come up with one to run. Might have to take the time to try a few.
I love the SD set. King's Shield, Swords Dance, Shadow Sneak, and Sacred Sword could be intriguing to me...but the fact that Sableye and Spiritomb completely wall it is a concern. I like a mixed set with Shadow Ball, Iron Head, Shadow Sneak, and King's Shield. To be honest, it's not the sets themselves that are giving me problems deciding which route to take, it's the natures. This guy can run almost any nature. The speed reducing natures are great assets, as are the classic sweeper natures. Even after scouring every page here, I still can't come up with one to run. Might have to take the time to try a few.
Underspeeding Hippowdon and Azumarill will bite you in the ass on every possible occasion. Never run 0 spe IV.
Yeah, Quiet with a 31IV is probably best for the mixed/special sets. Underspeeds base 55s (useful for tanking a Flamethrower from Blissey), but still outspeeds Azumarill, Hippowdon, Donphan, Rhyperior, Tangrowth, Dusknoir, etc.
Well with all this talk about how good Aegislash is my biggest concern isn't actually Aegislash but how to beat it since i personally really dislike this pokemon for some odd unknown reason probably just because i dont like how it looks... at least not from the back unlike some other pokemon o.o anyways so i actually came up with a very interesting way to counter the most common aegislash that i see running around which is apparently the shadow sneek physical sweeper set with sword dance, shadow sneek, king's shield and sacred sword. so the idea that I've been toying with is transform smeargle that looks something like this
smeargle @ quickclaw / focus sash
any speed nature
252 HP, 252 Spe, 4 anything
transform
spore
sticky webs / stealthrock
destiny bond / rapid spin /thunder wave / aromatherapy / magic bounce
the idea here is to switch in on a shadow sneek and force them to switch out and then proceed to transform into aegislash which they probably wont be able to predict which is immune to the fighting type sacred sword and finally, pull silly shenanigans with your smearguleslash and hope for the best. quick claw is there to help you win the priority wars if it comes down to that. you can also spore said aegislash and people probably wont expect a follow up transform.
smeargle @ quickclaw / focus sash
any speed nature
252 HP, 252 Spe, 4 anything
transform
spore
sticky webs / stealthrock
destiny bond / rapid spin /thunder wave / aromatherapy / magic bounce
the idea here is to switch in on a shadow sneek and force them to switch out and then proceed to transform into aegislash which they probably wont be able to predict which is immune to the fighting type sacred sword and finally, pull silly shenanigans with your smearguleslash and hope for the best. quick claw is there to help you win the priority wars if it comes down to that. you can also spore said aegislash and people probably wont expect a follow up transform.
That doesn't sit well with me simply because of one it becomes super vulnerable to pursuit users and also the fact that aegislash almost needs leftovers because he often takes a hit then attacks. And lastly mind games are one of the reasons you use aegislash, his large amount of options makes him a great asset and lastly I think counters will always counter him even with choice band but who know it might. Be good
The Pursuit thing is a valid point, but most of the time when people use Slash it's as a setup sweeper or a King's Shield tank (or both sometimes), which raises the question-- how often are people REALLY going to be using Pursuit against the thing? I could argue that running Aegislash as a guerilla hole-puncher could be mindgames enough in its own way. But, the risk is there if the opponent has a Frisker or catches wind of it, I can't deny that.
My Diggersby would own your team too.
Aegislash is an interesting case. I recently started using it, and it's amazing how many people predict the King's Shield, only to be hit by my Mixed Aegislash and possibly KOed by Shadow Ball+Shadow Sneak. It also has quite a bit of bulk and can switch in on a lot of things, like Scizor, Breloom, etc. The fact that opponents expect King's Shield or Swords Dance is also nice.
That said, Mixed Aegislash loses bulk compared to bulky SD, and doesn't take certain moves (Rotom-W stuff, etc.) that well, which leads me to believe that people will keep using bulky SD. I like that--it makes Mixed more unexpected!
I run a bulkier mixed set that acts as a facade as a kings sheild set.
Spooky plate or Air Balloon
252 hp/252 sp.atk/4 atk
Shadow sneak
Shadow ball
King's sheild
Sacred sword
I shadow ball the poor chump who sets up on me expecting a king sheild or SD and finish with shadow sneak. Sacred sword is for blissey and dark types. I use KS to suprise them when they think im running a pivot set and lower their attack.
Spooky plate or Air Balloon
252 hp/252 sp.atk/4 atk
Shadow sneak
Shadow ball
King's sheild
Sacred sword
I shadow ball the poor chump who sets up on me expecting a king sheild or SD and finish with shadow sneak. Sacred sword is for blissey and dark types. I use KS to suprise them when they think im running a pivot set and lower their attack.
The only IV up to discussion in those sets is Speed. Speed IVs on sets without Autotomize (which obviously need 31 Spe IVs) depend entirely on what Spe IVs you are expecting opposing Aegislash to be using, as this is the only Pokemon you get outsped from that you care by lowering your Spe IVs. Using just enough Spe IVs to always outspeed min Speed Azumarill is your safest bet, to speed tie at worst against opposing Aegislash, but it is a really trivial thing as if everyone starts doing this you always get a Speed tie.
It's exactly as you said it, the more control you have of the situation the better it is, which is why Weakness Policy is not one of the best choices for Aegislash. It's a viable choice no doubt, and the fact that the opponent almost always wants to hit Aegislash with super effective attacks (when they aren't statusing it), is what makes this item viable and not a gimmick that relies purely on surprise factor and ideal scenarios.
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Partly, you want to outspeed Hippowdown to 2hko on the switch, but you want to be slower than Azu anyways to KS and drop their stat and hit with a Shadow Ball. Most Azu invest in enough speed to outspeed 8 Spe Scizor anyways. 25 Speed IVs lets you outslow Azu while being faster than Hippo. Also being faster than other Slashes while you have Shadow Ball doesn't really matter.
Aegisouls (Aegislash) @ Spooky Plate / Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
IVs: 25 Spd
- Sacred Sword / Iron Head
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Ball
- King's Shield
Alternatively you can run like 252HP 156Atk 100SAtk quiet since you only need 88 SAtk EVs to 2hko 248/8 Wash and Hippowdon 100% of the time. I find you mostly only spam Shadow Balls anyways.
You are literally never going to switch smeargle into a aegislash and come out of that on top unless your opponent makes terrible decisions.
And as has been stated, sableye and spiritomb are surefire counters standard bulky SD set, can burn to end the threat, and foul play or shadow sneak respectively. Any fast normal type can revenge kill if it has non contact fire or ground moves. Anything with a fast will-o-wisp can totally neuter it for the rest of the match. Anything with foul play can OHKO it in sword form and doesn't care about stat drops from king's shield
What makes it truly difficult is its ability to go mixed, which leaves it with almost no counters. Its attack is so insane that you almost have to assume it's the SD set, and any of those normal switch ins killed destroyed by shadow ball.
Has anyone noticed that protean Greninja hardcounters the standard Aegislash with protect and a ghost move? Greninja uses protect, and then aegislash twiddles his dick around or something. Next turn greninja is still a normal type so shadow sneak won't work, so aegislash is forced to use sacred sword but Greninja will always attack first and then he uses a ghost type move so he can't be touched.
Haven't bothered to read the thread so if this idea was already posted, don't get your jimmies rustled.
Haven't bothered to read the thread so if this idea was already posted, don't get your jimmies rustled.
This greninja wouldn't accomplish anything else with this set though; protect is useless on it and the only ghost moves it learns are shadow sneak and HP ghost. Assuming you go with the much more logical shadow sneak, it can still king's shield to drop your attack to survivable levels. However, there's just no point to have a greninja on your team whose sole purpose would be "aegislash check" (because a counter has to be able to switch in on it)
Protean kelceon has a much better chance with shadow sneak plus already starting normal, twave to gain priority on sacred sword, and (a weak) flamethrower, but it's still a gimmicky counter that gets absolutely rocked with prediction.
True, but I just wanted to point that out as I think it's kinda cool that it can't touch it. I didn't mean in any way that it was viable :P
I'm liking Weakness Policy more and more. AegiSmash is now my favorite set (since WP + Autotomize = White Herb + Shell Smash).
Now I'm sure people have a great idea of what Aegislash has trouble against. So, why not figure out what Aegislash can set up on/force out?
Some obvious choices are Heracross (due to typically resisting its STABs), and from my experience I haven't proved anything conclusive as the things I come in on are usually crippled by rocks or burned. (Banded Talonflame is another thing that this guy wrecks, though not sure if the set itself is popular.
VoltTurn seems like a nice engine to land Aegislash in a neat position to set up that Autotomize; Rotom-W makes a great partner due to coming in on EQ's (that would OHKO Aegislash, making WP useless) and forcing out pokes with HP Ice not to mention that both Scizor and Rotom-W are just the right speed to guarantee that; In fact I'm thinking of slapping a team together consisting of VoltTurn + Defensive Core + Donphan (Rapid Spin + SR) + Aegislash!
The Choice Set will probably benefit more from this, though. So I'll try that out.
Now I'm sure people have a great idea of what Aegislash has trouble against. So, why not figure out what Aegislash can set up on/force out?
Some obvious choices are Heracross (due to typically resisting its STABs), and from my experience I haven't proved anything conclusive as the things I come in on are usually crippled by rocks or burned. (Banded Talonflame is another thing that this guy wrecks, though not sure if the set itself is popular.
VoltTurn seems like a nice engine to land Aegislash in a neat position to set up that Autotomize; Rotom-W makes a great partner due to coming in on EQ's (that would OHKO Aegislash, making WP useless) and forcing out pokes with HP Ice not to mention that both Scizor and Rotom-W are just the right speed to guarantee that; In fact I'm thinking of slapping a team together consisting of VoltTurn + Defensive Core + Donphan (Rapid Spin + SR) + Aegislash!
The Choice Set will probably benefit more from this, though. So I'll try that out.
So.... I've been running this:
Aegislash (M) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Atk / 168 SAtk
Brave Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Ball
It's been working surprisingly well. I don't find a need for Kings Shield, as I find switching into an appropriate counter (Physical Attackers that threaten Aegislash are 99% of the time walled by my Gliscor). Setting up a Swords Dance when your opponent hits you with a SE move (while you're in Shield Forme) nets you +4 Attack, and late game, when things are weakened and or there are hazards on the field spells demise for my opponent. A lot of the time, my opponent thinks it is the pure Bulky SD variant, only to get hit with Shadow Ball on the switch (and in the case of WP being use already, a +2 Shadow Ball...).
I like it so far.
Aegislash (M) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Atk / 168 SAtk
Brave Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Ball
It's been working surprisingly well. I don't find a need for Kings Shield, as I find switching into an appropriate counter (Physical Attackers that threaten Aegislash are 99% of the time walled by my Gliscor). Setting up a Swords Dance when your opponent hits you with a SE move (while you're in Shield Forme) nets you +4 Attack, and late game, when things are weakened and or there are hazards on the field spells demise for my opponent. A lot of the time, my opponent thinks it is the pure Bulky SD variant, only to get hit with Shadow Ball on the switch (and in the case of WP being use already, a +2 Shadow Ball...).
I like it so far.
I run the Standard Shield Dance Aegislash, and it works as it should. Most surprisingly, I have found that it is a great sweeper against teams that use Poison stall tactics. This battle was ridiculously complicated and long, yet Aegislash proved to be the game changer.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oubeta-62652602
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oubeta-62652602
I don't really like Standard Dance set. Aegislash doesn't really have the speed for it and Shadow Sneak doesn't hit hard enough. Everything I like about it is done WAY better by this set (it's a variant on one of the Smogon sets):
Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Brave Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
Outside of STAB Earthquakes from 130's, Aegislash can take even a super effective hit from just about anything, which in a weird way makes him a really potent revenge killer. Everyone expects physical Aegislash and his Shadow Ball hits just as hard as his shadow claw and way harder than his shadow sneak. I'm not sure what attacking EVs I should actually give it, though. I'd like to deal more damage to Skarmory/Gliscor, but max special attack means that he doesn't KO Gengar or MegaGengar with Shadow Sneak, and he can take a Shadow Ball from MegaGengar.
Weakness Policy makes up for the loss of Swords Dance, and also boosts Shadow Ball. Ghost/Fighting still has perfect coverage as well. King's Shield is threatening for Choice Scarf and Band users and gives Aegislash the opportunity to make up for a misplay. It also has the side effect of boosting his defenses allowing him to absorb another hit. I've had A LOT more success with this than a stance dancing set.
Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Brave Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
Outside of STAB Earthquakes from 130's, Aegislash can take even a super effective hit from just about anything, which in a weird way makes him a really potent revenge killer. Everyone expects physical Aegislash and his Shadow Ball hits just as hard as his shadow claw and way harder than his shadow sneak. I'm not sure what attacking EVs I should actually give it, though. I'd like to deal more damage to Skarmory/Gliscor, but max special attack means that he doesn't KO Gengar or MegaGengar with Shadow Sneak, and he can take a Shadow Ball from MegaGengar.
Weakness Policy makes up for the loss of Swords Dance, and also boosts Shadow Ball. Ghost/Fighting still has perfect coverage as well. King's Shield is threatening for Choice Scarf and Band users and gives Aegislash the opportunity to make up for a misplay. It also has the side effect of boosting his defenses allowing him to absorb another hit. I've had A LOT more success with this than a stance dancing set.
CTNC
Doesn't know how to attack
Edit: Fixed the post
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And thats when the opposing Aegislash uses Life Orb Shadow Ball and OHKOs you.
252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 291-346 (89.81 - 106.79%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Which means you just showed that 37.5% of the time they kill you, and 62.5% of the time you kill them - so it would be better to be the 0 speed IV.
Obviously it's not that simple because you might have taken previous damage, but perhaps they aren't running Life Orb in which case you always live, and if you're the weakness policy set then you've just "set up" and can shadow sneak the next thing coming in or King's Shield mindgames. I also rely on Aegislash a lot to help against Trick Room.
I think running 31 speed is a valid option, but personally I prefer 0 speed and it absolutely has it's merits. What makes the choice so easy for me is that on Mixed Aegislash you don't want your nature to be -attack, or -special attack, or -defense, or -special defense... so running a -speed nature ends up being the least detrimental option. Once you have decided to run -speed then you may as well go all out 0 speed IV for the benefits of always being slower.
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