Move Sticky Web

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Thanks for the answer :)

I posted this before in another topic, I since it hasn't been mentioned here I'ld like to add it since this seems to be one of the best uses of SW so far ( When you can place SR on Tyranitar or a similiar Pokemon)

Smeargle 252 HP 252 Sp
Jolly

-Sticky Web
-Spore
-King's shield
-Parting Shot


Kings Shield into Parting shot (which is much saver with sticky web) forces switches and instantly stops enemies like Choice Scizor / Azumarill or other band locked physical attackers.

It's mainly designed to counter (lower tier) rapid spinners who serve a 2nd role being a sweeper though.

Anyway - the first time your opponent uses spin there is a good chance it won't work he'll have to leave the stage with -2, while you swap out with parting and his swap in also gets -1At/SA.

This set can delay a setup or in some cases even force out the enemy.
The downside; after the initial use it becomes predictable.
 
I think Sticky Web is a niche, not more. It hepls the 'mons with a base Speed Stat of < 100 to outspeed enemy grounded poke. It helps MKanga, Tyranitar, Dragonite and other good Pokemons with only a "good" Speed Stat.

It helps to win the Speed Tier. I mean I have a MLucario and on the other side, there is a Jolteon. So I win the Speed Tier as an example. It's a nice tool that is totally banned due to it's poor distribution.
 
Sticky Web doesn't apply to everything though, which is a large part of the problem. Many of the fastest threats pack Levitate, like the Lati@s and Gengar. Then when you consider Skarmory and Crobat getting Defog, they're going to have no problem clearing the field of hazards.

It's not that Sticky Web is bad, it's just that it's more of a niche, like Baton Pass. When considering your example, I actually prefer using Scolipede to pass to Heracross rather than using Sticky Web support.
So you make sure that the counters are gone if you see any before you try to sweep. Just like every other strategy that requires set up. And unlike a baton pass set, Sticky Web means you can switch at will to counter different pokemon. And every strategy has its problems. For example, baton passers hate phazers, last gen weather starters hated opposing weather starters, the list goes on. The trick is adapting your team to stop them from ruining your strategy.
 
Thanks to the Focus Sash, Sticky Web is guaranteed anyway unless you're up against a Mamoswine lead. Toxic would be for slower walls and Sticky Web's going to be the first thing you do outside of hazard-blocking with Magic Coat; might as well let your attack of choice pack an actual punch if you get the chance to use it. As I pointed out earlier, base 92 speed is pretty good, but it's not spectacular and if your opponent's gone with an offensive lead such as Genesect you're likely to be outsped anyway, no matter what you've got invested in speed... but I did suggest max Speed as another option, if you read on.
I read the whole post I think I got distracted in the speed part sorry about that, but now that you have made clear your preference for Atk I agree with you that the spread is better for that set, thank you
 
I don't think you quite understand the idea of a team player.
I don't think you quite understand the current metagame. Smeargle isn't half as useful as he used to be with the changed sleep mechanics. Ariados and Galvantula would never show their face in OU. Levitate and flying types are everywhere and even if all these things weren't enough, speed tiers are nowhere near as important as any other gen because priority is literally everywhere. If this was early 4th gen with a few pokemon with extremespeed and mach punch, maybe stick web would be revolutionary. But its not. We have CB Aqua Jets, technician BP and MP and priority BB everywhere. With the fliers and priority, rapid spin and defog, Stick Web is far from game breaking.
 
Imo speed tier is not as relevant as it was last generation, what with all the priority move users like Talonflame, Azumarill and Aegislash making such an impact in the metagame.

Even if the speed tier was messed up, no one said that everything had to be speedy to be able to be relevant. That's why tanks and walls exist. Right now, Sticky Web didn't break the meta, it just helped to shift it into a different direction.

And it's not like Sticky Web is the be-all and end-all of all things. It does crap against stall/bulky teams who rely on bulk and priority for their offense. It's crap if your opponent's sweeper is a flying type/has levitate or air balloon. It's crap because it can be removed by a pokemon that can do other things than defog/rapid spin, while the Sticky Web's setters are mostly suicide leads. It's crap because you become predictable since you are most likely gonna lead with your Sticky Web user.

And don't tell me that all the reasons I listead above can all be countered. if that's the case then:

"So counters mean its totally okay? In that case, lets bring every Uber to OU. They all have counters right? Lets all forcibly run those counters because if we don't were going to lose"
 
Imo speed tier is not as relevant as it was last generation, what with all the priority move users like Talonflame, Azumarill and Aegislash making such an impact in the metagame.

Even if the speed tier was messed up, no one said that everything had to be speedy to be able to be relevant. That's why tanks and walls exist. Right now, Sticky Web didn't break the meta, it just helped to shift it into a different direction.

And it's not like Sticky Web is the be-all and end-all of all things. It does crap against stall/bulky teams who rely on bulk and priority for their offense. It's crap if your opponent's sweeper is a flying type/has levitate or air balloon. It's crap because it can be removed by a pokemon that can do other things than defog/rapid spin, while the Sticky Web's setters are mostly suicide leads. It's crap because you become predictable since you are most likely gonna lead with your Sticky Web user.

And don't tell me that all the reasons I listead above can all be countered. if that's the case then:

"So counters mean its totally okay? In that case, lets bring every Uber to OU. They all have counters right? Lets all forcibly run those counters because if we don't were going to lose"
I completely agree that the speed tier isn't as relevant this generation as last. However, just because it isn't as relevant doesn't mean that it doesn't still matter.

Priority may be important but it can only get you so far, and don't forget that many pokemon that can take advantage of sticky web have their own priority to take care of that problem.

Flying types, levitaters and air balloon are all of course detrimental to the effort, particularly since most Flying types can learn Defog. That's why if you see a flying type WHO COULD RELIABLY USE DEFOG, you don't send out your setter first. You send out a counter. Or a pokemon that doesn't need Sticky Web but does like it, like DD haxorus.

And while we're on the topic of counters, your quote is kind of misplaced.The quote is saying that HAVING counters makes something completely fine. And that's true for teams, but your quote is about singular pokemon as opposed to teams. And single pokemon shouldn't have only a few counters. If they don't have enough counters, they get banished to the next highest tier. That's what the tiering system is for.

Sticky Web setters can be suicide leads, but they don't have to be. I have had great success with using Galvantula as an offensive lead. The other setters admittedly are mostly only able to be suicide leads, but then, they could function much better in lower tiers. Yeah, remember, there are tiers below OU.

And finally, say your oppenent sees a Scolipede in your baton pass team. (As an example). They now know you have a baton pass team. Fine. But, what they don't know is when you're going to use it. Same with Sticky Web setters. They might expect you to play it first, but as I said above, you don't need a whole team who relies on sticky web. If you do, you're completely screwed when someone removes it.
 
^in eveyrthing you said, I didn't see any meta breaking reason worthy for it to be banned. We both agree that there are ways around it, and that there are ways around the ways around it. And neither of all of those are overly centralizing imo

Like I said, Sticky Web didn't break anything, it merely added another interesting feature to hazards. If it messed up the speed tier, then we might as well say that Stealth Rock and Spikes messed up the OHKO chart tier. Do we ban SR to ubers now?
 
The problem with Smeargle is it can only lead. And it can lose to a wide variety of Pokemon. If your opponent has a grass type, it won't get off Spore. If they have a rapid spinner, they will just spin away your hazards that you lost a Pokemon for. If they have a Magic Bounce Pokemon Smeargle is completely useless. If they have a faster taunt user it completely shuts him down too. If they have something with a Lum Berry it can wreck Smeargle. RestTalkers will be a bit more common this generation too with the change in sleep mechanics.

That's a lot of teams he is useless against.
 
^in eveyrthing you said, I didn't see any meta breaking reason worthy for it to be banned. We both agree that there are ways around it, and that there are ways around the ways around it. And neither of all of those are overly centralizing imo

Like I said, Sticky Web didn't break anything, it merely added another interesting feature to hazards. If it messed up the speed tier, then we might as well say that Stealth Rock and Spikes messed up the OHKO chart tier. Do we ban SR to ubers now?
I wasn't arguing that it should be banned. I thought you meant it was bad. After all, you did end with repeating that it was 'crap'.
 
I wasn't arguing that it should be banned. I thought you meant it was bad. After all, you did end with repeating that it was 'crap'.
Oh no no no my good gentleman, I was merely suppresing the idea that Sticky Web is a game breaking feature that should head to straight to ubers, like what the other guy was saying
 
Why should sticky web go to ubers? Unlike stealth rock, it doesn't effect EVERYTHING, and unlike the stealth rock users, the mons which carry it are all on the frail side. In contrast, SR users include: Skarmory, forretress, ferrothorn. Those three are massive walls, and much harder to kill than galvantula, smeargle, etc.
 
My thoughts on Sticky Web: Really Broken Entry Hazard, as it can essentially negate a Choice Scarf. HOWEVER The move suffers from horrid distribution. There are around six fully evolved Pokemon that can learn the move, only two I see not being complete dead weight, those being Galvantula and Smeargle. Galvantula has the luxury of firing off Compoundeyes Thunders which has some merit with Drizzle's nerf while Smeargle can do so much with Sketch and with some interesting moves being introduced this Gen like Parting Shot I can see these two MAYBE working in OU. The move is great, the users, not so much. If Greninja (for the same reason he gets Spikes and Toxic Spikes, he's a ninja.) or Forretress got the move it'd definitely see more use but for right now I'm not sure it's worth using Galvantula for something that can be Spinned or Defogged away.
 
if you have a spin on your team then sticky web is almost useless, ive gone against it and most times i just kill the sticky web user and proceed to spin, now my opponent has one less pokemon and his sticky web is gone
 

Okuu

Blame [me] for Global Warming!
is a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnus
if you have a spin on your team then sticky web is almost useless, ive gone against it and most times i just kill the sticky web user and proceed to spin, now my opponent has one less pokemon and his sticky web is gone
That's part of the issue with Sticky Web users: They're pretty frail. But, to be fair, if you were able to kill them off immediately after they used Sticky Web, and spin it away with no repercussion to your team (including the turn you spent Rapid Spinning), then your opponent had no business using it in the first place. They should have just used a different move, or switched out. If I'm going to send a Galvantula out on a suicide Web mission, it would only be because I have a way of quickly offing the 'mon that you currently have out, and that I'll be able to take advantage of that team-wide speed drop with something that now outspeeds the rest of your team. Even a stupid play like throwing out a Web in front of your Excadrill could possibly be validated if I could force the choice of having you Rapid Spin (and thus do basically no damage to my next switch-in) or attack (and potentially trade with my switch-in, leaving me open to outspeed and sweep with a third switch-in).
 
Choice Scarf boosts the Speed by 50%. Sticky Web reduces the Speed of 1 Stage, that's about 33%.
Just said.
It's not as simple as subtracting the percentages. n stages of a boost gives a multiplier of (2+n)/2 to the stat while n stages of a decrease gives a multiplier of 2/(2+n) to the stat. Multiplying them together gives 2(2+n)/2(2+n) which simplifies to 1 (assuming they're the same n).

It's true that a -1 reduces the stat by 1/3 while a +1 boosts it by 1/2, but you have to think of the way the two would multiply together. 1+1/2=3/2 and 1-1/3=2/3. 3/2*2/3=1.
 
Whilst this move is very good, I don't think it's going to be that much of a game changer. I've tried using it and it's pretty easy to circumvent using magic bounce, taunt, rapid-spinning or defogging (with most defoggers able to come in and not get slowed in the first place), or just building your team out of pokes that are flying and have levitate (along with pokes who don't suffer for lack of speed). It's current poor distribution, which I don't see changing dramatically with the Pokemon Bank, means that although it will most definitely feature in OU it's perhaps not something to mess the bed over.
 
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Whilst this move is very good, I don't think it's going to be that much of a game changer. I've tried using it and it's pretty easy to circumvent using magic bounce, taunt, rapid-spinning or defogging (with most defoggers able to come in and not get slowed in the first place), or just building your team out of pokes that are flying and have levitate (along with pokes who don't suffer for lack of speed). It's current poor distribution, which I don't see changing dramatically with the Pokemon Bank, means that although it will most definitely feature in OU it's perhaps not something to mess the bed over.
Yeah, it's kind of over-hyped. With most sweepers having priority, it doesn't help much. Its also a stat change so it can be negated via a switch, unlike SR. A rapid spinner can get rid of it with barley any negative impact on your team.
 
It's not as simple as subtracting the percentages. n stages of a boost gives a multiplier of (2+n)/2 to the stat while n stages of a decrease gives a multiplier of 2/(2+n) to the stat. Multiplying them together gives 2(2+n)/2(2+n) which simplifies to 1 (assuming they're the same n).

It's true that a -1 reduces the stat by 1/3 while a +1 boosts it by 1/2, but you have to think of the way the two would multiply together. 1+1/2=3/2 and 1-1/3=2/3. 3/2*2/3=1.
It's easier with the stages. +1 Stage minus 1 Stage equals 0, that's right. My fault.
 
Sticky Web currently seems to be niche like Trick Room to a degree. Only a few mon can use it, however it doesn't apply to the entire enemy's team, and it can be ended with certain moves.

Sticky Web shouldn't be under or over estimated... I know that doesn't make sense but hear me out. Too many users of Sticky Web seem to think that once they've gotten it out then it's gg. They play reckless and it bites them. Fast teams often have a Defog/Rapid Spin user anyway, and then there is bulky offense that doesn't really care one way or the other. A good Sticky Web player, like was mentioned, will deploy his user at the right time. Later in the match can often work out really well, just like any end game sweeper. Shuckle with Sturdy, Rest and a cleric can ensure Sticky Web has a second chance of being laid down in the future. A good player can utilize SW effectively, but it isn't some "auto-win" hazard like it's cracked up to be. Possible ban? Hardly.
 
Unless this move gets a crazy distribution boost, then it's totally fine, especially considering the defog buff: with defog having great distribution and not affecting flying types (who are usually defoggers). With the meta getting bulkier, less things care about speed anyway, and it seems like every sweeper has priority now. And I personally love when people use smeargle, anything with magic bounce or taunt makes the standard sticky webber set 100% useless.
 
A nice move for Offensive teams or those that lack some speed.

The distribution though, is horrible You're practically forced to run a Galvantula (Because Nobody is using Ariados or Masquerain for this) to use it.

Not to mention Guys like Crobat (who will probably rise in use) laugh at this, and can Defog away.

So yeah, a good choice providing you can mantain it, but not broken at all.
 

8-BIT Luster

Completely Unviable
Well, Sticky Web DOES have horrid distribution, and can be defogged or spun away.
But what if the Webs were centered around a whole team that revolves around lowering speed?
The webs would just be an added bonus, and there's nothing you can do about paralysis or Gooey (Of course, you could always switch, but the opponent coming in would STILL take a Speed drop assuming Webs are still up.)

Sticky Web could be a great move if it gets just ONE commonly used Pokemon.

but you have to think that defog removed hazards from BOTH sides of the field. If the opponent has a hazard-reliant team, you can bet there won't be a defogger, there'll be a Spinner.
Send in a Ghost, and bam.
There's always a way.

Especially with this thing called Thundurus, who is a great idea for a partner on a Sticky Web team.

He gets Prankster Taunt. He can spread Paralysis which is great on a sticky web team. He can destroy the Flying-Types that dare try to defog with a quick Thunderbolt. With SR up on the opponent's side, it can take out a skarmory.
0+ SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 224 HP / 32 SpD Skarmory: 332-392 (101.5 - 119.8%)
With NO SpA EVS, Thundurus can one-shot the standard Skarmory variant.

So Sticky Web WITH partnership is a great threat that teams should be prepared for.
 
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