Battle Spot Special Season 1: Gen 6 Pokémon Only!

[shoppingcart]

I'm gonna have to agree with Kriptini as from what I read this is a glorified rock-paper-scissors match. Fair enough, I haven't tried the battle spot yet as I've just finished breeding so my tune might change after experiencing it. I'll mess around with Talonflame, Greninja, and Aegislash a bit and test out the waters but I do like the idea of having Avalugg or Tyrantrum on the team to deal with Flame. Maybe something along the lines of Tryantrum, Diggersby, and Goodra.

 

[ryan]

yo Theorymon can we do a leaderboard like the one for the main battle spot thread? that'd be swell.

anyways, I'm trying it out now that I finally got all the mons, all the moves, all the TMs, AND all the hold items I needed. :)

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

In the main battlespot thread there's a leaderboard for special singles also

Which i will most definitely never be on. Boy oh boy do i abhor this metagame. I mean going in I knew it was going to be greninja/talonflame/talonflame counter being brought by both sides every single battle. But I guess it's like touching something hot. You have to see for yourself just how bad it is before you could believe it's as bad as everyone says it is. I played four battles and I expect those to be my last. It's nice seeing how much normal singles is balanced for comparison though.

 

[ryan]

oh, good to know; thanks.

I've played a couple games, and I've been enjoying myself tbh. obviously with only like 30-something Pokemon available, it's not going to be a very diverse metagame, but it's nice to toy around with all the new stuff and see what everyone is using. Klefki is probably the worst part of this metagame though lol. I've been using Klefki @ Sitrus with Foul Play / Thunder Wave / Swagger / Double Team, and it's just... such a bitch lol. Even if it ends up dying against a +6 opponent, as long as it's paralyzed, I can easily revenge it with one of my heavy hitters. Even Talonflame can't just spam priority Brave Bird because I've got Barbaracle, LO Quick Attack Diggersby, Aegislash w/ Sneak, and a Talonflame of my own.

 

[goomy pls]

This idea probably would have worked well in any other generation than this one. Not enough available Pokemon to have a choice.


Anyway, Aurorus is the only Gen VI pokemon that can set up weather just by switching in. Once set, there is almost no chance that the opponent will remove your Hail. Unfortunately, Aegislash counters Aurorus hard, and there really are no pokemon that can abuse hail to their advantage (Aurorus and Avalugg are the only Ice-types).

I wonder if rain dance / rest / hydration would be effective on Goodra. Probably not.

 

[Theorymon]

This idea probably would have worked well in any other generation than this one. Not enough available Pokemon to have a choice.


Anyway, Aurorus is the only Gen VI pokemon that can set up weather just by switching in. Once set, there is almost no chance that the opponent will remove your Hail. Unfortunately, Aegislash counters Aurorus hard, and there really are no pokemon that can abuse hail to their advantage (Aurorus and Avalugg are the only Ice-types).

I wonder if rain dance / rest / hydration would be effective on Goodra. Probably not.

Unfortunately, Snow Warning Aurrous is actually unobtainable atm, as is Rock Head Tyranturm. We only know about them because of the Battle Maison teasing us...

 

[goomy pls]

Unfortunately, Snow Warning Aurrous is actually unobtainable atm, as is Rock Head Tyranturm. We only know about them because of the Battle Maison teasing us...

Oh. Well, it wasn't a good strategy in the first place so it doesn't matter.

Although that further increases the viability of Rain Dance. Weakening Talonflame's Flare Blitz could have its uses.

 

[Vitiel]

Diggersby is pretty phenomenal in this format. I also added a Lum Berry Delphox with Magic Coat to my team to deal with those pesky keys, and it feels more useful than anticipated.

 

[ryan]

Diggersby is pretty phenomenal in this format. I also added a Lum Berry Delphox with Magic Coat to my team to deal with those pesky keys, and it feels more useful than anticipated.

I cannot stress enough how true this post is. Diggersby has been annihilating for me in this format, with Life Orb Huge Power Quick Attack to deal out massive damage to frailer foes (for reference, it does about 55% to standard LO Greninja), powerful dual STAB with Return and Earthquake hitting everything in this format bar Gorgeist and Trevenant for at least neutral damage, and U-turn to flee from them as well. Priority in general is really nice; Talonflame has been an all-star as expected with priority Brave Bird and Tailwind, and Klefki has been great for Speed control. Particularly, Klefki annoying the foe often leads to them switching out of it, allowing you to Thunder Wave whatever else they decide to bring in.

With this being a 3v3 format, Tailwind Talonflame, to me, is far better than Swords Dance or Bulk Up. You can clean an opponent's team while Tailwind is up alone, and because the format is as offensive as it is, it's hard to set up SD anyways.

I've actually really been enjoying myself. I understand why other people aren't though—having so few Pokemon makes things very centralized. But this actually hasn't bothered me much. The coolest part about this is that Pokemon that are less viable in the grand scheme are much more usable here. Who would have thought Diggersby to be one of the most fearsome Pokemon in pretty much any meta? And yet, pretty much only Avalugg, Trevenant, and Gorgeist can switch into it without fear! I highly encourage anyone looking to try this metagame out to do so, particularly if it's easy to get a hold of better Pokemon for it. It might not be quite your thing, but with the season being so short, it doesn't hurt to try it out before it's gone!

 

[ryan]

Diggersby still owns, and I have exciting news!

We now have an XY Battle Spot Special ladder on Pokemon Showdown!. I highly encourage anyone who is hesitant to play the metagame to try it out on PS first so that you don't have to breed everything and then end up not liking it. It's been great fun for me so far, and I've even found weaknesses in my team that I hadn't noticed before!

 

[Explorer]

Talonflame has a whopping 1 check: Tyrantrum. Which it can U-Turn out of to a counter, and Aegislash can be used for since it can handle it quite well... who is also a bit short on checks itself in the meta.

Basically teams are going to be reduced to:

Talonflame
Aegislash
Something to counter one of the above

Not exactly a balanced meta

Barbacle is a great check to Talonflame--it can set up Shell Smash as Talonflame U-turns out and then proceed to sweep. Talonflame has to run HP Grass to significantly dent Barbacle, and I've yet to see mixed Talonflame.

Also, Trick Room teams with Aromatisse/Gourgeist-Super and something like Chesnaught/Aegislash might be common here since most of the tier is on the slow side.

 

[Arc Tech]

Barbacle is a great check to Talonflame--it can set up Shell Smash as Talonflame U-turns out and then proceed to sweep. Talonflame has to run HP Grass to significantly dent Barbacle, and I've yet to see mixed Talonflame.

Also, Trick Room teams with Aromatisse/Gourgeist-Super and something like Chesnaught/Aegislash might be common here since most of the tier is on the slow side.

That's incorrect. Without large defense investment (more than shell smash can spare and be useful otherwise) Barbaracle is 2hko'd by +2 LO/SP Brave Bird and 3hko'd by CB BB. This means if talonflame predicts the shell smash, it wins unscathed (outside of recoil).

 

[LordRandomness]

I think Barbaracle can at the very least 2HKO Talonflame, and the point was to force a switch to get a Shell Smash in. It doesn't even have to face it head on. As long as it can switch in, most talonflames go running and I get a free shell smash.

Yes, Tyarantrum is also an option, but I feel it loses some viablilty locked into one move. Isn't it's type coverage with the elemental fangs a selling point? But, whatever you think meets your team's synergy requirements, go ahead.

At that amount of base power, you practically don't need coverage. Does anything even 4x resist Rock in this meta?

 

[Explorer]

At that amount of base power, you practically don't need coverage. Does anything even 4x resist Rock in this meta?

Lucario and Cobalion. :) I would switch Talonflame out of Barbacle in a heartbeat unless it was low on health. I also kind of like using Barbacle as a Bulk Up tank to capitalize on its excellent attack and defense. Between Razor Shell, Stone Edge, and Cross Chop, its overall coverage is very good. I would just be wary around Electric/Grass-types.

 

[Nochman.EXE]

Similar to Doubles, I can see this temporary Metagame being more welcoming to Heavy Offense, due to the fast pace of 3 V.s. 3, although im looking forward to a Semi-Trick Room Core+Talonflame. It will be interesting to see what exactly Gen. VI has brought us; a pure XY experience is what I look forward to. Good luck everyone!

 

[LordRandomness]

Lucario and Cobalion. :) I would switch Talonflame out of Barbacle in a heartbeat unless it was low on health. I also kind of like using Barbacle as a Bulk Up tank to capitalize on its excellent attack and defense. Between Razor Shell, Stone Edge, and Cross Chop, its overall coverage is very good. I would just be wary around Electric/Grass-types.

Neither of those pokemon are Gen 6, so they're banned in the metagame we're discussing.

 

[Hill]

Talking about that, are there any plans to implement Battle Spot Single Battles on Pokémon Showdown? I mean, it's not that difficult after the Special Singles were made

 

[ryan]

Talking about that, are there any plans to implement Battle Spot Single Battles on Pokémon Showdown? I mean, it's not that difficult after the Special Singles were made

It's implemented now. :)

Also, I've been having some fun with mixed Aegilash on this ladder. You can watch one of my closer battles if you want: Z4FG-WWWW-WWW2-STF3.

Avalugg has been really really common as a Klefki counter and generally fantastic physical tank. As such, beating it with a team of five physical attackers and a Goodra isn't exactly simple. So I switched out my SD Aegislash for a mixed set with Flash Cannon / Shadow Ball / Shadow Sneak / King's Shield with either Leftovers or Spooky Plate, though I really want to try either Air Balloon or Shuca Berry to help handle opposing Diggersby and Barbaracle. Anyways, a lot of OU players have been using the same set but with Iron Head>Flash Cannon for specially bulky Fairy-types and such, but with those not being very difficult to break in this meta (particularly with Diggersby on my team), I've been using Flash Cannon instead. Flash Cannon guarantees an OHKO on Avalugg, which Shadow Ball does not do ([09:15] <+CDXCIV> Aegislash-Blade's Shadow Ball vs Avalugg (153 - 180 HP) Damage: 75.74% - 89.11%), and also hits Furfrou really hard (even though it's been rare, I've run into it, and it's nice to have a solid answer for it).

So far, I've been really happy with my team! Diggersby just does so much work every game, and now mixed Aegislash has been pulling its weight, which the SD set wasn't doing. With games running so quickly, SD Aegislash just doesn't get the chance to set up with all of the offensive pressure and Earthquake users. But mixed Aegislash hits hard off the bat and gives you a solid special attacker, which is fantastic because the quality of special attackers is...fairly low. Plus, Gorgeist can burn you all it wants to when you're just going to Shadow Ball it anyways. :)

 

[Yilx]

This is the Talonflame set i've been running to shit on klefkis (ban key)

Talonflame @ Lum Berry
Adamant
252 Hp/252 Atk/6 SpD
~Brave Bird
~Flare Blitz
~Will o' Wisp
~Roost

Really shits all over key through the inital paralyze with flare blitz and if it dosen't KO initally a follow up from brave bird will. WoW helps me shit all of the stuff that tries to set up in my face (barbaracle comes to mind)

 

[Ewil]

Actually i'm running a Scarf Noivern w/ Draco Meteor/Hurricane/Switcheroo/U-Turn
He's pretty versatile and can cripple opposite wall with his Scarf without loosing too much speed thanks to his natural stats, u-turn is for scouting.
The only bad thing about this set is the accuracy of DM and Hurricane.
Another thing that i'm a bit undecided is his ability, maybe i'll go with frisk since serves more for scouting capabilities since Substitute is very rare to justify the use of Infiltrator.
Pairing him with Talonflame is pretty useful since when the opponent switch to Barbanacle and you didn't U-Turn in that turn, then you can U-Turn without fearing the Shell Smash since Scarfed Noivern can outspeed even to +2 and kill him with Draco Meteor.

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

Alright, I spoke a little too soon. With just a couple key changes I was able to turn the metagame from a stupid Talonflame/Greninja coinflip into one where it's pretty easy to win consistently. I'll post a few sets that have really really been working for me lately.

Noivern @ Focus Sash
Timid
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
-Boomburst
-Air Slash
-Draco Meteor
-Flamethrower

Doesn't hit that hard at all, but has really good coverage and outspeeds the entire unscarfed metagame. I bring it just about every battle for those reasons. Usually I lead with it and just try to do as much damage as I possibly can with it before I die, but sometimes I hide it in the back in case I need that fast sashmon to finish things off.

Goodra @ Assault Vest
Modest
252 HP/252 SpA/4 Spe
-Draco Meteor
-Dragon Pulse
-Sludge Wave
-Flamethrower

Goodra with Assault Vest is the poster child for bulky attacker. It shrugs off Life Orb Dragon Pulses from Noivern, Dragalge, and Clawitzer for about 40%. And it can beat non-Wish Sylveon 1 on 1 with Sludge Wave. I don't bring it every battle, but when I do it generally dominates.

Avalugg @ Sitrus Berry
Adamant
252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def
-Avalanche
-Earthquake
-Toxic
-Recover

This is far and away the best Pokemon in Special Singles right now. I can't sing its praises enough. I bring it to about 95% of my matches and for good reason. Even if my opponent doesn't bring the Pokemon its designed to stop cold (Talonflame and Diggersby), I can usually rely on it for that last ditch Sturdy attempt, which has saved my ass plenty of times. Toxic is to win Avalugg vs. Avalugg battles and since it's won me 5 battle so far while my opponent uselessly Stone Edged or Cursed, I'd say that it's necessary in the last slot (at least in this metagame). If you're going to make a serious attempt at a run up the Special Singles ladder, you definitely need one of these.


And one last thing, Greninja is trash in this metagame. It's really really bad. Don't use it. Unlike Talonflame, which every team has overcovered, it doesn't even scare any threats off. Drop Greninja from your team.

 

[SuperMeep]

Yay, Avalugg recognition.

In seriousness, Greninja is way to predictable, it's easy to anticipate. The only time it's ever bothered me is when it managed to scald burn my goodra. It was also raining. biggest meh ever.

 

[Zandock]

It's implemented now. :)

Also, I've been having some fun with mixed Aegilash on this ladder. You can watch one of my closer battles if you want: Z4FG-WWWW-WWW2-STF3.

Avalugg has been really really common as a Klefki counter and generally fantastic physical tank. As such, beating it with a team of five physical attackers and a Goodra isn't exactly simple. So I switched out my SD Aegislash for a mixed set with Flash Cannon / Shadow Ball / Shadow Sneak / King's Shield with either Leftovers or Spooky Plate, though I really want to try either Air Balloon or Shuca Berry to help handle opposing Diggersby and Barbaracle. Anyways, a lot of OU players have been using the same set but with Iron Head>Flash Cannon for specially bulky Fairy-types and such, but with those not being very difficult to break in this meta (particularly with Diggersby on my team), I've been using Flash Cannon instead. Flash Cannon guarantees an OHKO on Avalugg, which Shadow Ball does not do ([09:15] <+CDXCIV> Aegislash-Blade's Shadow Ball vs Avalugg (153 - 180 HP) Damage: 75.74% - 89.11%), and also hits Furfrou really hard (even though it's been rare, I've run into it, and it's nice to have a solid answer for it).

So far, I've been really happy with my team! Diggersby just does so much work every game, and now mixed Aegislash has been pulling its weight, which the SD set wasn't doing. With games running so quickly, SD Aegislash just doesn't get the chance to set up with all of the offensive pressure and Earthquake users. But mixed Aegislash hits hard off the bat and gives you a solid special attacker, which is fantastic because the quality of special attackers is...fairly low. Plus, Gorgeist can burn you all it wants to when you're just going to Shadow Ball it anyways. :)

What nature and spread are you running for mixed Aegislash?

 

[Mocha]

I like that the Battle Spot is available on Pokemon Showdown for testing, but correct me if I'm wrong; the one on Showdown allows you to use all 6 of your Pokemon. Unlike the one in-game, you're limited to pick only 3 out of your 6 Pokemon. The difference between only choosing 3 or 6 can be huge. I also noticed this with Doubles Battle Spot on Showdown too. Teams were able to use all 6 of their Pokemon, when on X and Y in-game, you can only pick 4.

 

[ryan]

What nature and spread are you running for mixed Aegislash?

I've been using 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA, Quiet Nature @ Leftovers / Spooky Plate

I like that the Battle Spot is available on Pokemon Showdown for testing, but correct me if I'm wrong; the one on Showdown allows you to use all 6 of your Pokemon. Unlike the one in-game, you're limited to pick only 3 out of your 6 Pokemon. The difference between only choosing 3 or 6 can be huge. I also noticed this with Doubles Battle Spot on Showdown too. Teams were able to use all 6 of their Pokemon, when on X and Y in-game, you can only pick 4.

Unless this is a recent bug or something, this is not the case. I've been playing on Showdown to test out my team, and it's still bring 6 pick 3.