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After thinking about it for a bit, i actually think Haunter will probably be significantly better in x/y RU, and i'm actually pretty surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet/put in the OP, how did we forget? While it didn't get any stat buffs or important moves like say Crawdaunt did, the new type chart gives Haunter some great advantages this generation imo. For one thing, the Steel-type lost its resistance to Haunter's Ghost-type STAB, which is obviously really nice for any offensive threat that relies on their Ghost-type STAB like Haunter does. Now Haunter can simply just spam Shadow Ball and do significant damage to the opponent the majority of the time, with only Normal and Dark-type Pokemon really standing in its way, and considering Haunter has a really high base Special Attack stat for an NFE, this is pretty potent. Aside from this, the new Fairy-type makes Haunter's STAB Sludge Bomb that much more useful outside of STAB, as it hits these Fairy-types super effectively and gives Haunter an easy way to simply blow past them if it ever comes across them, it means Haunter has an extra resist to Fairy-type moves too, which might help it switch in a *little* bit more easily (although Haunter is still ridiculously frail lol). Between Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb, i believe Haunter's coverage is pretty much completely unresisted, with only Skuntank and Drapion i think standing in its way (speaking of Skuntank, it gets defog and also benefits from the steel nerf!), which makes it that much easier for Haunter to pose an offensive threat. All in all, between Destiny Bond+3 Attacks, Subdisable, Subsplit, etc, i think Haunter will be a bit more relevant when x/y RU comes around. What do all of you think? Will it be a threat worth watching out for?
Just wanted to say with weather probably being unbanned, I can see a rise in popularity with teams revolving around Hippopotas and Stoutland, with Stoutland sweeping teams with Coice Band and Sand Rush. Anybody else think Hippopotas will affect the metagame so much, if at all?
Escavalier's Overcoat protects it from Sleep Powder, making it one of the very best stops to Liligant and Tangrowth. Unfortunately its movepool is still pretty shit, but Assault Vest and the buffed Knock Off should allow Escavalier to soar higher still.
guys you can use a hawlucha set with power herb + sky attack to activate unburden, and then have SD, HJK and acrobatics as your other moves. power herb sky attack has 140 base power, whereas a flying gem acrobatics has 143 (considering the fact that normal gem now boosts by 1.3, i'm assuming the eventual flying gem will as well). acrobatics can then be used as your flying-type sweeping move, as you only need to use sky attack once. it sort of sucks requiring 2 flying-type stab moves, but they have such good coverage together anyway (iirc only rotom-n and doublade resist them, and rotom is really hurt at +2, while you're never getting past doublade anyway).
guys you can use a hawlucha set with power herb + sky attack to activate unburden, and then have SD, HJK and acrobatics as your other moves. power herb sky attack has 140 base power, whereas a flying gem acrobatics has 143 (considering the fact that normal gem now boosts by 1.3, i'm assuming the eventual flying gem will as well). acrobatics can then be used as your flying-type sweeping move, as you only need to use sky attack once. it sort of sucks requiring 2 flying-type stab moves, but they have such good coverage together anyway (iirc only rotom-n and doublade resist them, and rotom is really hurt at +2, while you're never getting past doublade anyway).
I'm pretty positive we can't have Gems even after PokeBank.. (That's what the official Pokemon site says:
Can I deposit Pokémon holding Berries or other items in Pokémon Bank?
No, you cannot deposit Pokémon that are holding Berries or other items. Please make sure to return any held items to your Bag before depositing your Pokémon.
If you try to deposit Pokémon that are holding Berries or other items, the items will be removed and sent to your Bag. If your Bag is full, the items will disappear.)
I know..It sucks for Unburden pokemon/Acrobatics :(
I'm pretty positive we can't have Gems even after PokeBank.. (That's what the official Pokemon site says:
Can I deposit Pokémon holding Berries or other items in Pokémon Bank?
No, you cannot deposit Pokémon that are holding Berries or other items. Please make sure to return any held items to your Bag before depositing your Pokémon.
If you try to deposit Pokémon that are holding Berries or other items, the items will be removed and sent to your Bag. If your Bag is full, the items will disappear.)
I know..It sucks for Unburden pokemon/Acrobatics :(
kabutops may move up because there is no ban on drizzle swim this gen(presumably anyway). Kabutops is definitely one of the better rain abusers, so could certainly see a lot of usage in ou / uu as the best physical rain sweeper.
Malamar will be good in RU, the squid has the combo contrary + superpower, it was a exclusive of spinda (LOL), but malamar's stats are a lot better than it. It has respectable 86/88/75 defenses, its special defense makes it a bit vulnerable to special moves, but it can run assault vest. Its base 92 attack is fine, but mediocre. Its superpower also is helpful against the iceberg monster avalugg. Tangrowth and Quagsire are huge counters, But against tangrowth, it can use taunt, or the rare hypnosis, or the lucky critical hit of psycho cut or night slash. It suffers from its mediocre speed, but it's compensed with its bulk. Topsy-Turvy can be used against pangoro or other slower setupers, but, it's only useful for that.
i'd be quite interested to see how Slurpuff goes in RU. it has the perfect moves to take on the roles of either a defensive set-up sweeper (Calm Mind, Draining Kiss, Aromatherapy, Cotton Spore, Flamethrower / Tbolt for coverage) or a cleric (Wish, Aromatherapy, Toxic). after some testing, though, i think it's safe to say that Slurpuff's mediocre stats really hold it back. even at +6 special attack anything that resists Draining Kiss and has decent SpD will survive, and at +6 defense anything with a super effective move and decent attack can overpower it quickly. even beginning to set up is a problem; on the first turn powerful neutral moves can take you out instantly, and on the second turn (assuming you forced something out) moves like Sludge Bomb, Iron Head, and basically any of various high BP SE moves will still OHKO you. needless to say, these problems are even more apparent when running the cleric set, as you have no way to boost either defensive stats and will always take the full brunt of the attack. e.g Roselia will 2HKO you with Sludge Bomb after Stealth Rock, even with no SpA investment and Slurpuff running 252 HP / 252+ SpD
i think Slurpuff's real shot at RU is the Belly Drum set w/ Sitrus Berry. You can come in on something that you will almost guarantee is forced out, e.g Druddigon, and use Belly Drum to get to +6 Attack. this drops you to 50% HP, at which point the Sitrus Berry will go off and heal you back to 75%. the use of the Sitrus Berry triggers Slurpuff's ability Unburden, boosting you to +2 Speed. even with Slurpuff's measly base 80 Attack and assuming Naive, Slurpuff hits 1036 Attack and 534 Speed, and Play Rough is a solid high BP STAB (with a fun chance to lower the opponents attack; good for 2HKOes).
while this set is Slurpuff's saving grace, it still isn't exactly excellent; Slurpuff's only other physical moves to utilize are Thief and Return, one of which has low BP and the other having rather bad coverage. this forces Slurpuff to resort to special coverage moves such as Flamethrower to deal with the like of Steelix, Durant and Escavalier. furthermore, even with +6 Attack Slurpuff struggles to OHKO defensive behemoths such as Tangrowth and Alomomola (although it lands a clean 2HKO on both, of course).
if you really want to use Slurpuff, try the following: run the Belly Drum set, save it until late game and use it with Qwilfish. after Qwilfish sets up 3 layers of spikes, achieving OHKOs on bulky opponents becomes a far more plausible idea, and Qwil can take the Steel and Poison attacks that Slurpuff is so scared of.
Slurpuff is a fragile mon when running this set; if it doesn't land an OHKO, it can be burned, phazed, revenged, paralyzed and more, most of which totally ruin it for the rest of the match. here's some calcs to show what Slurpuff can and can't OHKO:
consistent OHKO|low chance to OHKO / needs spikes |no ohko
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 144 Def Slowking: 432-508 (109.9 - 129.2%) +6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Uxie: 273-322 (77.1 - 90.9%) +6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 352-415 (65.9 - 77.7%) +6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Spiritomb: 794-936 (261.1 - 307.8%) +6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 632-746 (164.5 - 194.2%) +6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 180-213 (43.4 - 51.4%)
4 SpA Slurpuff Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Steelix: 154-182 (43.5 - 51.4%) 4 SpA Slurpuff Flamethrower vs. 172 HP / 36 SpD Escavalier: 212-252 (65.4 - 77.7%)dear god, even with 3 layers of spikes your chances are slim 4 SpA Slurpuff Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Durant: 408-480 (158.1 - 186%)
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Druddigon: 926-1092 (261.5 - 308.4%)yea get rekd drudd
in the end, i think Slurpuff is a pokemon that had shows a huge amount of potential in specific move combinations and its abilities, but is held back by a disappointing BST of 480 hampering its defensive capabilities and a lack of physical coverage moves hampering its offensive potential. it is outclassed by Clefable and probably even Audino as a defensive cleric. its true role, from what i have seen, is that of a good (but not amazing) late game sweeper with a high risk but high reward.
I really think neither Slurpuff or Aromatisse will be at all viable in RU, those mediocre stats really curse them, and they're most likely PU material. Also, they look horrible. Anyways, I have a pretty big interest in ancient Pokemon, and since nobody really talked about them, I might as well.
Aurorus
Type: Rock / Ice
Base Stats: 123 HP / 77 Atk / 72 Def / 99 SpA / 92 SpD / 58 Spe
Abilities: Refrigerate / Snow Warning (Unreleased)
Aurorus looks like a mixed bag, to say the very least. One one hand, it's easy to notice that rare Rock / Ice typing. With Aurorus, you have combined what are the two worst defensive typings in the game; Aurorus gets hit super effectively by many decently seen threats such as Sceptile, Escavalier, Feraligatr, Lanturn, among many other threats, and is weak to Stealth Rock. Aurorus is quite slow too, so it can be taken down before it can act. That said, Aurorus might be able to find some use in RU, because Rock / Ice is honestly quite a decent offensive typing; so Aurorus can do some damage to opposing teams, not to mention 99 Special Attack isn't too shabby. One must also keep in mind Aurorus does have ways to patch up that bad Speed, such as Rock Polish and Thunder Wave, of which Aurorus can use decently. Aurorus also gets Thunderbolt, which is pretty cool imo so Aurorus can hit Water-types not named Lanturn. Of course though, Aurorus may be a rather niche Pokemon, because that bad defensive typing and speed sure do cripple it, but I think it may have some niche in RU, even if small. But once it gets Snow Warning, I can see Aurorus's niche becoming somewhat bigger so it can be used as a hail setter if you plan on using such teams, and Blizzard ofc. In short, I don't think Aurorus will at all be a top Pokemon in the tier, but it might be able to find use in the tier. Also, Ice Beam=Screw you Druddigon
Tyrantrum
Type: Rock / Dragon
Base Stats: 82 HP / 121 Atk / 119 Def / 69 SpA / 59 SpD / 71 Spe
Abilities: Strong Jaws / Rock Head (Unreleased)
Tyrantrum looks really interesting, and definitely looks like it has the potential to be one of the better Pokemon in the tier as long as it lasts. It's got a lot of Attack, and two good STAB moves that can bring a lot of pain. Stone Edge and Dragon Claw pack a pretty good amount of power, and Dragon STAB is pretty good in RU. Tyrantrum can either run Rock Polish or Dragon Dance to be a pretty strong sweeper, boosting its meh Speed stat to great levels; it's faster than a lot of the Pokemon that boost their Speed as well. Tyrantrum also has pretty awesome physical bulk, so it's not extraordinarily hard to get a boost. It has Strong Jaws Fire Fang if you're scared of Escavalier, Durant, or Ferroseed, as well as Earthquake so it can deal with the steel. That Stone Edge hurts Fairies, although Fairies are going to be rather rare since Clefable is almost definitely leaving, and Aromatisse, Slurpuff, Dedenne, and Carbink are all bad. The only real Fairy Tyrantrum will have to be scared of is Gardevoir, and I'm not sure if that will be remaining in RU. CB also looks kind of fun. Tyrantrum does have Durant syndrome though; its Special Defense is really shitty, so it cringes to literally any neutral special attack. It has some pretty explotable weaknesses as well. Once Rock Head gets released, as long as Tyrantrum lasts in RU it would be really scary with boosted Head Smashes that will make it one hell of a threat, it would basically be what Aggron was in RU but better. I definitely think Tyrantrum has potential. Also, it kills Druddigon as well. (How does Tyrantrum not learn Outrage, it destroyed everything when it wasn't extinct)
Dedenne, Aromatisse, aurorus, furfrou, carbink, pyroar. vivillion and probbally slurpuff they will be NU
dedenne will be NU because it's just another pikachu's plagiarism; aromatisse is too slow and it's very vulnerable to poison types, also, it's special attack is mediocre; Aurorus's defensive typing is a shit; furfrou has mediocre bulk, lackluster offenses and movepool, and also it's very vulnerable to taunt; carbink is simply a shuckle's copy; pyroar has weakness to mach punch, aqua jet, and stealth rock, only decent special attack, and any special wall can wall it; and vivillion has four times weakness to stealth rock, atrocious defenses, and mediocre special attack (and also weak to piloswine's ice shard).
slurpuff: I don't if slurpuff will be NU because belly drum + unburden is amazing, and it's STAB is not too bad, it's calm mind set is good because physical supper effective moves against fairy types in RU are rare, but it has a appearance of a NU pkmn, Derp.
Dedenne, Aromatisse, aurorus, furfrou, carbink, pyroar. vivillion and probbally slurpuff they will be NU
dedenne will be NU because it's just another pikachu's plagiarism; aromatisse is too slow and it's very vulnerable to poison types, also, it's special attack is mediocre; Aurorus's defensive typing is a shit; furfrou has mediocre bulk, lackluster offenses and movepool, and also it's very vulnerable to taunt; carbink is simply a shuckle's copy; pyroar has weakness to mach punch, aqua jet, and stealth rock, only decent special attack, and any special wall can wall it; and vivillion has four times weakness to stealth rock, atrocious defenses, and mediocre special attack (and also weak to piloswine's ice shard).
slurpuff: I don't if slurpuff will be NU because belly drum + unburden is amazing, and it's STAB is not too bad, it's calm mind set is good because physical supper effective moves against fairy types in RU are rare, but it has a appearance of a NU pkmn, Derp.
Although many of these things will be NU, we included them in the OP because they are mons that can be used in RU.
Although I agree with most of your predictions, I believe that Aurorus has a shot at RU, due to an amazing ability (2 when snow warning is released), amazing offensive typing, and rock polish to make up for its meh speed (Rock Polish Aggron is good, and Aurorus has 8 more speed). Carbink will probably be NU, but due to access to calm mind it won't be like Shuckle at all. It can effectively run a mono attacking rest talk set and just set up in front an opponents team which can really pressure a team with t-spikes support (basically it is a cool win condition for stall).
I would like to see the fate for Granbull for this meta. It's new Fairy-typing is good for walling Fighting-types, while Intimidate can deal with counters like Drapion or Magneton (I know, not the best examples). Close Combat with EQ and it's STAB Play Rough can make it a good force. It's speed is bad though. But it may become BL3 like Jynx was for a while. It's also walled by Haunter and Misdreavus, more so the former. What do you guys think?
I also see the Hidden Power-mons becoming less useful, due to nerfs and stuff. But who knows?
Because of pretty much this reason alone I feel like Lilligant is going to be NU without some serious buffs to her movepool! She should really have been Fairy Typing and got Dazzling Gleam... because she only gets like Grass move, Hyper Beam and Hidden Power for coverage. I've been playing around with a set without Hidden Power in gen 5 RU to see if it works... and it's ok. I've been running Giga Drain/Petal Dance/Healing Wish/Sleep Talk with a Choice Scarf. It's ok but it is quite clearly NU material... funnily enough, though, this set is working really well in gen 5 UU so maybe it's not the end for Lilligant? I just think that Lilligant is going to completely fail unfortunately...
Though, would it be worth it to get a Steel and 4X Poison weakness (Yeah, name a viable RU Poison-type since Nidoqueen's ban)? And yeah, I would be happy if Z or whatever it's going to be gives Lily a Grass/Fairy-type Mega, but I digress.
And I did mention her in the NU theorymon thread, but I got ignored mostly. And looking at it, Roselia does seem like a nice counter to Lilligant in NU if she makes it.
Ok people take the Fairy Typing way too seriously let me digress:
Weak to Poison (uncommon) and Steel (rare) and resists Fight (Second-most common type in RU imho), Bug (One of Lilli's weaknesses) and Dark (Absol anyone?). Basically, people taking Fairy as a bad typing do not look at Fairy. "This Pokemon is now weak to Poison it sucks". Even "This Pokemon is now 4x weak to Poison" because you're still not going to run into it either way... but this is complete theorymon so I'll stop.
While on the topic of Fairy Type let's look at what Fairies that "will" end up in RU and who will be really viable... uh... Aromatisse?
Yeah Aromatisse is a real dark horse in this so-called "competition" of XY RU. Fairy Type is certainly not the greatest but it has to be noted everything Aromatisse is weak to Slowking, for one, resists. Plus, Aromatisse has access to stuff like Trick Room which makes her a pretty good Support Pokemon. She has a wide movepool of other options to - Aromatic Mist is actually pretty good in some situations, I can see it being great on stallier teams (Alomomomola would be a bigger bitch now) and Avalugg inparticular is an offensive Pokemon who I think could actually be the best Ice-Type in RU with this support.
I'm thinking that Gardevoir might rise out of NU,because of her new typing, which gives her an immunity to dragon, but then again I am pretty a mixed bag on this, because I think she could be a decent way to deal with mons in RU. (I'm still nervous to post DX)
I do however agree on Tyrantrum being RU.
While his stats are pretty good, his ability isn't the best, as it only raises bite moves,which aren't really the best anyway, but with Tyrantrum, you could see more viability. But once he gets Rock Head, that will be great, as then he will be another aggron.
Also, Granbull is already a bad mon as it is, so I don't think he'll rise to RU. Maybe because he's fairy now, but I don't think he will.
What do you think will happen with Clefable leaving the meta ?
(Hope this wasn't bad DX)
absence of clef is a pretty huge slap in the face to any teams reliant on keeping defensive pivots to a minimum, for sure. her ability to reliably take hits from so many deadly special attackers in the tier (Rotom-C, LO Sigilyph, Mesprit for starters) isn't even what makes her so crucial to some teams: it's how easy she is to slot into whatever role you need with very little negative consequence. she doesn't require status absorbers or rapid spin support, she suffers from only one weakness (albeit a popular type in RU) and she has adequate stats to fulfil a huge amount of roles at a great level.
if you're looking at the primary consequence of clef leaving, i would say a loss of wish passing and heal bell support would see a rise in defensive cores like Slowking / Amoonguss (even more than before). this would be due to people previously reliant on Clefable as their central defensive pivot / team supporter being forced to expand their teams defensive capabilities by adding another pivot (or entirely different core altogether). i know i personally have a few teams that will suffer in having to replace key pokemon just to keep defensively stable in the absence of clef.
perhaps we'll also see a bit more Audino and Miltank? they certainly aren't better than Clefable, but they fulfill similar roles and with the new Fairy-type helping in holding back the Fighting-types of RU i could see these two having to worry a lot less about their crippling weaknesses.
Sorry if i'm going off topic a bit, but i'd like to bring up Escavalier as an already top tier threat that recieved some interesting buffs this generation (even though the loss of dark and ghost resists is annoying), that will most likely make it even scarier than it is now imo. Firstly, the introduction of Assault Vest is pretty nice for Escavalier, and gives it a neat alternative to the Choice Bands and Occa Berries that are seen now in BW, and will definitely see use imo on teams that need that bit of extra bulk to check special attackers such as Sceptile, Lilligant, Rotom-C, and Accelgor reliably. Even without a Choice Band, Escavalier still has a whopping 405 Attack maximum, so even without the Choice Band boost those Megahorns and Iron Heads will be pretty painful. Furthermore, Escavalier is going to be attacking pretty much all the time from my experience, so it really doesn't suffer from Assault Vest's drawback much in my opinion either.
Aside from Assault Vest, Knock Off got a pretty nice Buff too that will make it a great option on Escavalier, for those of you who don't know, Knock Off is now a 65 BP move that gets the equivalent of a STAB boost whenever the opponent is holding an item, which of course makes it a very useful utility option on a large selection of Pokemon that learn it, Escavalier included, its bulk lets it take hits rather easily from a variety of opponents, especially with the previously mentioned Assault Vest, giving it plenty of opportunities to cripple Pokemon after Pokemon by removing their item (although of course there are times where Escav just wants to Megahorn). This is a bit more minor, but as Punchshroom mentioned above, Overcoat now blocks powder and spore moves, making Escavalier an even better check to the various grass-types in the tier, as it doesn't even have to rely on Sleep Talk anymore, simply being completely immune to the condition instead of just being able to attack through it. Lastly, because of its Steel-typing and great bulk Especially with Assault Vest, Escavalier will be a pretty incredible check to pretty much any fairy-types that end up in RU, taking their STAB moves and most coverage moves really easily and scaring them out rather easily with the threat of a nuclear Iron Head.
So yeah, i think Escavalier will be a pretty strong Pokemon this gen, (assuming it doesn't move up to UU or something which i could see being possible depending on how the metagame forms), and i'm pretty excited to see how Assault Vest, Knock Off, Overcoat, etc play out. What do you guys think of Escavalier?
Might edit this commenting on some other posts later btw
Escavalier just got confirmed for Drill Run(Official guide) which probably mean's he'll see a lot more usage in UU which somewhat lacks offensive steel types.
Escavalier just got confirmed for Drill Run(Official guide) which probably mean's he'll see a lot more usage in UU which somewhat lacks offensive steel types.
Wow! thats actually.... pretty significant if its true tbh lol. Drill Run is a move people have been wanting Escavalier to learn since the start of BW, if Escavalier really finally has it, thats pretty cool. A lot of Escavalier's checks in BW RU, such as Steelix, Qwilfish, Aggron, and the Fire-types (barring Moltres of course who's immune to it) happen to be hit quite hard by Drill Run, so Drill Run gives Escavalier an easy way to blow past these former checks, making switching into the armored snail once it gets in an even harder task. Considering that and the buffs i mentioned before like Assault Vest and the Knock Off buff, i definitely think that Escavalier has a shot at moving up from RU next generation (nothing's guarenteed though of course, metagame changes might keep Escavalier down ;-;). One thing's for certain though, no matter where Escavalier ends up, Drill Run will be a great addition to any set it runs.
Drill run esca honeslty sounds rlly good, and in combination with the knock off buff, being able to deal with fairy's and overcoat stopping powders esca should be one of the best pokes in ru this generation. Hopefully it doesn't move up, but yeah I could see this happening sadly. Anyway, drill run sounds excellent considering a lot of people rely on emboar, qwilfish and steelix to counter esca and that drill run does a number on all of them. Moltres still doesn't care too much, although knock off from band 1HKO's after sr, but wrecking qwil, emboar, aggron etc. is still very nice. So yeah esca should be even better than last gen thanks to the move buffs its got.
I think Regirock goes to RU in this generation. Assault Vest is a huge improvement for him and with access to Drain Punch for recovery, he can wall a lot of threats.
