Minimize Muk with Black Sludge. Now more broken than ever with Infestation. Had a guy immediately switch to his Mega Aggron when I sent in Muk to spam EQ. First turn Minimize, seocnd turn his (first) EQ hits and I minimize, third turn EQ misses and I use infestation, fourth turn EQ misses and I minimize, then I spammed Acid Armor. The set would look something like this:Seeing as how there isn't a Simple Questions / Answers thread for Battle Spot yet, are there any gimmicky options that the traditional Smogon metagame analyses would miss entirely (thanks to Sleep, Evasion, and other ban clauses)? Are any of them good? Specifically, I am thinking of things along the lines of:
- Moody Pokémon (Smeargle is likely best - any recommendations? Spore, King's Shield, maybe an attack for Taunt users, Minimize/Substitute/Baton Pass?)
- other Minimize abusers (Eviolite Chansey sets with Seismic Toss? Can Drifblim work with Minimize, Stockpile, and Baton Pass - and how would you get it in safely? Obviously Chansey needs support to handle Sacred Swords from the omnipresent Aegislash)
- Spore abuse, potentially with Trick Room support for slower Spore users, or perhaps after being Baton Passed substantial speed boosts from Blaziken or other Speed Boost users?
I know each of these are mentioned from time to time, but I'm asking how viable these and other "gimmicks" are in high rating Battle Spot play. Save that "it's cheap and produces 30-minute Wifi battles and relies on luck" nonsense; it's fair game on Wifi, and that's why we all go play the Smogon metagame when we get tired of evasion hax. Thanks :)
edit: I am asking about the singles metagame only, but not necessarily about 3v3 - it could be for 3v3 or 6v6, which might affect your answers!
Not really. Talonflame favors flying moves and Gyrados doesn't resist that, though Intimidate help Brave Bird (Max EV/Adamant) be a 3HKO. This all being said Talon Flame will get two chances to get a critical KO and absent that will leave Gyrados with a measly amount of HP.Choice Band Intimidate Gyarados any good as a counter to Talonflame?
Counter was probably the wrong word. Either way.Not really. Talonflame favors flying moves and Gyrados doesn't resist that, though Intimidate help Brave Bird (Max EV/Adamant) be a 3HKO. This all being said Talon Flame will get two chances to get a critical KO and absent that will leave Gyrados with a measly amount of HP.
Chesnaught is a great pokemon. I'd slap on seed bomb there because of the extra coverage for water types which are really common. I'd rather go with other grass types though. Tangrowth, Breloom, Roserade etc. are way more appealing since they can shut down some pokemon with more ease.Well, no one seems to care about my Steelix question, so I'll assume it's a meh option (and run it anyway lol).
So how about Chesnaught? Defensive Chesnaught might be somewhat usable. Attracts Talonflames like crazy, though, which might be useful depending on who you partner Chesnaught with, most likely Rotom-W. Tyranitar is also a great partner because of the Dark type to threaten the Psychic types that may attack Chesnaught.
Chesnaught @ Leftovers/Rocky Helmet
Impish Nature
Bulletproof
252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
-Synthesis
-Leech Seed
-Hammer Arm/Seed Bomb
-Stone Edge/Earthquake
No Spikes since 3v3. Synthesis for added recovery, Leech Seed for residual damage and healing. Hammer Arm is a great STAB to hit things with. Stone Edge is for the Talonflame switchin. Seed Bomb can be used to hit bulky waters and Slowbro better, if you deem it necessary. Earthquake is an option if you fear Aegislash. Leftovers is preferred, but if someone else is running it Rocky Helmet could be an option.
Bulletproof negates a surprising amount of attacks, most importantly Sludge Bombs from Gengar/MVenusaur, and Shadow Balls from Gengar/Aegislash. Also the odd Focus Blast or Aura Sphere. Chesnaught also laughs at Breloom. It can wall MVenusaur, but can't really do much back to it unless running Earthquake.
Thoughts?
I can confirm this set works well. Even in general, bulky offense works surprisingly well in 3v3, compared to 6v6 where it's often advantageous to carry glass cannons and wallbreakers since you can switch them out to one of your other 5 mons when they're threatened. Take Stone Edge, for certain. One of the best ways to deal with ubiquitous Talonflame on Wifi is to bring clear Talonflame bait that carries Stone Edge. If you bring this in on something it can threaten like a Water type (e.g. the Quagsires that some people carry to deal with dancing Aegislash) and your foe has Talonflame as well, you've got an easy shot at surprising switch-ins with the OHKO, which is something that other Grass walls like M-Venusaur can't do.Chesnaught @ Leftovers/Rocky Helmet
Impish Nature
Bulletproof
252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
-Synthesis
-Leech Seed
-Hammer Arm/Seed Bomb
-Stone Edge/Earthquake
I would probably drop Togekiss since Mandibuzz usually runs specially defensive builds anyway, and you'd be stacking some extra weaknesses by replacing anything other than Talonflame/Togekiss with another Flying-typeThiinking of packing mandibuzz Since i'm having trouble being walled by dusknoir/evolite dusclops and poison heal gliscor. Foul play/knock off shenanigans just seems too good not to..plus it seems like its respectable bulk and versatility as a disrupter is fantastic for the BSpot meta. any thoughts?
currently running Ferrothorn/Greninja/MKanga/AV Togekiss/Talonflame/Rotom-W not sure what to drop.
Certainly. It must have just been a difference of semantics. I've had good success with Gyrados as a lead when I suspect Talonflame leads. Either way I think an intimidate lead is always helpful against an physical meta game.Counter was probably the wrong word. Either way.
252+ Atk Choice Band Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 288-342 (188.2 - 223.5%)
It can't OHKO Gyarados without the crit and gets taken down itself even with full HP and Def investment which it is never going to have anyway. So as lead/revenge killer Gyarados works I think.
I've made a team utilising an idea like this but unfortunately haven't had a chance to test it properly with rated battles down. I tried it out in a few free battles but people generally rage quit after the string of misses.I'm going to rip part of an idea I saw in one of the Metagame threads and adjust it slightly for Wifi:
Drifblim @ Weakness Policy
(+Some defense, -Some offense depending on which attack is chosen) - Careful w/ Acrobatics might work best
Unburden
(defensive EVs, probably 252 HP and a mix of Def/SpD)
- Stockpile
- Baton Pass
- Minimize
- Acrobatics / Shadow Ball
Usually, now Sableye is max Def rather than SpD. Or, a mix of both defenses. If you want to counter Sableye, pretty much bring a Fire type. Yet, that's not totally a safe thing to do, since many Fire types would not want a Foul Play on the switchin. Really, one thing you have to remember is that Sableye is still quite frail, and strong hits will decimate it over time. I've been using max SpD Sableye myself, and strong physical hits kill it, or even Fairy attacks like Togekiss's Dazzling Gleam can OHKO it. But as always, you have to watch out for stuff Sableye can do. If you predict wrong, it can mess you up with Burn, Taunt, or Foul Play.That makes sense Phil274. Maybe I'll train up a Drifblim with a similar set and bring it along for the ride when the opponent doesn't seem to have a way to get rid of it. And I agree farranpoison, it's just that most defensive Taunt users seem to have considerable advantages over Espeon and Xatu. Magic Bounce seems better used for entry hazards, which are not as common in 3v3, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaking of Sableye, what are some good counters to the standard SpD Sableye? I'd like to pack mons that serve general offensive purposes and also happen to counter Sableye and other annoying, bulky ghosts like Dusclops/Dusknoir and Spiritomb (and Drifblim, while we're at it)... rather than taking mons specifically for them.
I just want to say that I've tried this out a little and this set is beautiful. It completely slipped my mind that Muk got both Minimize and Infestation.Minimize Muk with Black Sludge. Now more broken than ever with Infestation. Had a guy immediately switch to his Mega Aggron when I sent in Muk to spam EQ. First turn Minimize, seocnd turn his (first) EQ hits and I minimize, third turn EQ misses and I use infestation, fourth turn EQ misses and I minimize, then I spammed Acid Armor. The set would look something like this:
Muk @ Black SLudge
Poison Touch / Sticky Hold
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Atk or SpDef
Minimize
Infestation
Toxic / Acid Armor / Curse
Gunk Shot / Mud-Slap
Mud Slap with Infestation, oh god...Plus you could spam these to activate Poison Touch. Just beware taunts and subs. This set's worst nightmare is a surprisingly common Japanese Gyarados set that has Taunt, Substitute and Earthquake.
edit: Just upped the replay. 8d3w-wwww www3-f9wa Made the poor guy rage quit.
In my experince, it just doesn't work. I've faced a couple decent Politoed teams doing everything in their power with Rotom-W and Politoed, both super bulky, trying to keep rain up to support a powerful rian sweeper/stall pokemon (Hydration Vaporeon is popular) And the short version is with only 3 team slots, Goodra laughs in their faces. I had a goodra sit in for 11 turns against them, eating ice beams and hydro pumps, and just slowly beat them all too death. the normal rain dance status inducers are grass or T-wave spamming, and I've seen a couple lanturns as well. Goodra simply does not care. I run mine with Sap Sipper, but hydration works as a dedicated rain stopper.Has anyone had any luck with weather teams or Terrain abuse? I figure even with the weather nerfs you'd not really feel it in 3v3 I'd think so long as you bring the proper item. I'm working on a Politoed with Drizzle and trying to come up with potential buddies.