3v3 Singles Metagame Discussion Thread

[CoolStoryBrobat]

Like I said it was a work in progress, I'm still getting used to the whole 3v3 thing. Its completely different than what I'm used to (if not most of the members here in Smogon). I'll take your suggestion though, sometimes my opponent predicts my prediction and ends up screwing my whole play so I'll be dropping Pursuit ASAP. As for the team I was hoping to get some help from experienced players since the 3v3 meta is full of surprises but I'll keep experimenting with the team until I can finally get up high in the ranks. Thanks btw c:

I run a Bisharp pretty much like this...I run Sucker punch, Iron Head, Knock Off, and Swords Dance however, with max Speed and Attack. Despite what people say about coverage, Bisharp honestly doesn't find itself walled by much using only its STABs aside from Lucario, Cobalion, and opposing Bisharp (unless you run Low Kick...even then, the first 2 Pokemon still outrun and kill you anyway). Pursuit's an interesting option, but that 4th moveslot can be up for grabs as I find myself NEVER using Swords Dance. Maybe Taunt? Or even Substitute. Also I would probably get Life Orb on that Bisharp, since Knock Off has a ridiculously higher chance to OHKO Aegislash in Shield Stance than it would if you had Dread Plate.

 

[Komaru]

I run a Bisharp pretty much like this...I run Sucker punch, Iron Head, Knock Off, and Swords Dance however, with max Speed and Attack. Despite what people say about coverage, Bisharp honestly doesn't find itself walled by much using only its STABs aside from Lucario, Cobalion, and opposing Bisharp (unless you run Low Kick...even then, the first 2 Pokemon still outrun and kill you anyway). Pursuit's an interesting option, but that 4th moveslot can be up for grabs as I find myself NEVER using Swords Dance. Maybe Taunt? Or even Substitute. Also I would probably get Life Orb on that Bisharp, since Knock Off has a ridiculously higher chance to OHKO Aegislash in Shield Stance than it would if you had Dread Plate.

I was getting problems with other Pokemon outspeeding my Bisharp which is why I think T-Wave is the best way to go but Substitute is good idea as well, I never thought of it. I'll take that EV spread in consideration if I find T-Wave "useless" and swap it for Subs as it can help me setup, take a hit or even absorb WoW thrown at him.

 

[dkkc19]

Just faced one of the best well thought teams in triple battles. Before the battle started I thought this was a guaranteed win for me, but the guy absolutely humiliated me.

The guy had Abomasnow, Musharna, Gigalith and Amoongus. (Can't remember the other two, and I didn't get to battle them)

Anyway, Musharna uses trick room, Amoongus puts my Tyranitar to sleep and Gigalith protects. The next turn, Musharna uses helping hand on Gigalith, Amoongus protects and Gigalith uses explosion to wipe out all of my pokemons.
I put on Lapras, Aggron and Gengar and he sends in Abomasnow. He puts my Aggron to sleep, uses helping hand on his mega-Abomasnow and hits me with a blizzard which KOs Gengar, almost kills Aggron and hurts Lapras.
I hit his Amoongus with an Ice-Beam which barely scratches him and he hits me with another Blizzard-Helping Hand combo and wins.

Edit: Wrong thread, stupid me thought this was a triple battle thread. My bad.

 

[Guilan]

What I'm seeing the most now, is Scarf Mamoswine. It is powerful.

A clever choice, with people expecting s-rock and stuff.

 

[ethan06]

So I have a fully EV-trained Modest Heatran. I've had it for a few years, having transferred it through from Platinum or something after having gotten it from a friend however long ago. I brought it through the bank, run it through the Judge expecting shit IVs and, lo and behold, it's 31/x/x/31/31/x. (It passed the hack check so...)

Question is, I want to use it. Given the spread of IVs, the nature, and 3v3's metagame, how could I use it most effectively in Battle Spot singles?

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

So I have a fully EV-trained Modest Heatran. I've had it for a few years, having transferred it through from Platinum or something after having gotten it from a friend however long ago. I brought it through the bank, run it through the Judge expecting shit IVs and, lo and behold, it's 31/x/x/31/31/x. (It passed the hack check so...)

Question is, I want to use it. Given the spread of IVs, the nature, and 3v3's metagame, how could I use it most effectively in Battle Spot singles?

If you managed to get Earth Power on it, you could go balls-out with a Specs set and use it as a decently-bulky wallbreaker, or you could use a specially defensive set with Lava Plume and some junk. Fully defensive Pokemon are a nuisance at times on Battle Spot if the opponent expects the wrong thing out of them and doesn't prepare accordingly.

 

[stonerchris]

I dunno about everyone else, but I find this metagame soooo difficult to predict and prepare for. Thought I had a nice solid team going, then suddenly, megazard y with ancient power is everywhere to destroy my own zard and mandibuzz. Ugh. I wish more people in the top rankings would share their battle videos so I can see just how they do it. Also, oddly, on showdown, using the exact same team in 3v3 as in game, same iv's and evs and everything, I do awesome, but in the game, nope. I guess its because most people on showdown stick to smogon builds, where the international metagame of battle spot is just random craziness.

also; is it worth using legendaries that don't have ideal ivs? Most of mine have a nature I can work with, but only one good iv, and the rest crap. If everyone else out there is using hacked 6iv legends then I ain't gonna bother.

 

[Guilan]

But they are sharing! Read some comments in the last pages. -teien and ka-e-ru are top 20 singles players and they enabled their videos.

 

[jeb4]

I dunno about everyone else, but I find this metagame soooo difficult to predict and prepare for. Thought I had a nice solid team going, then suddenly, megazard y with ancient power is everywhere to destroy my own zard and mandibuzz. Ugh. I wish more people in the top rankings would share their battle videos so I can see just how they do it. Also, oddly, on showdown, using the exact same team in 3v3 as in game, same iv's and evs and everything, I do awesome, but in the game, nope. I guess its because most people on showdown stick to smogon builds, where the international metagame of battle spot is just random craziness.

also; is it worth using legendaries that don't have ideal ivs? Most of mine have a nature I can work with, but only one good iv, and the rest crap. If everyone else out there is using hacked 6iv legends then I ain't gonna bother.

Yea, they're mostly hacked. As usual, not having legendaries is a pretty big crutch (let alone the good old pre gen6 moves). So with that said , depending on just how bad the IVs are and the purpose of the legendary, it just might be worth it. Some really good legends are the gen 5 genies, heatran, cresselia.

I'd upload more vids but, I just feel like the games are just meh (even the 2200 elo vids are just.. meh, nothing that special). I just pick a counter to what I expect the enemy to start with, a focus sash as second poke, and the last one is something that just cleans up any doubts/troubles left. I feel like if you're using things like mandibuzz, you're overestimating how complicated the 3v3 meta is.

 

[TheJJT]

So I've been thinking about a Bulky Team, mainly for a bit of fun and a surprise factor during 3v3, it's totally untested (bar the Mamphy which I've used with varying success before now) So here it is.

Dragonite@Assault Vest
Adamant
Multiscale
252HP 252 Att 4 SpD
Dragon Claw
Extreme Speed
Fire Punch
Earthquake

Good coverage, hits hard, and with AV + Multiscale tanking hits shouldn't be too difficult. The idea being to hit with Dragon Claw, then KO with ExSp prio.

Pinsir@Pinsirite
Adamant
Hyper Cutter (avoid intimidate leads)
252 Atk 100 Def
156 sp.def
Sword Dance
Quick Attack
Earthquake
Return

The idea behind this set is to either lead, Mevolve then hit hard with priority flying quick attack off the fully invested 155 Attack. Or switch into something resisted, then Mevolve and sword dance on their switch and proceed to wreak havoc.

Gyarados@Choice Band
Adamant
Intimidate
252HP 252 atk
Waterfall
Earthquake
Ice Fang
Thrash

This'll be my lead when Pinsir isn't. With Full HP investment + Choice Band Gyarados has substantial bulk and a boat load of attacking prowess right off the bat, although I may drop some of the HP investment for the B/W 88 HP 168 Spe spread of this proves to be lacking.

Togekiss@Leftovers
Modest
Sernene Grace
202HP 252 Sp.A 52 Spe
Thunder Wave
Air Slash
Dazzling Gleam
Roost/Aura Sphere

Typical Paraflinch set but I exchanged extra defensive bulk for greater power, even without the defensive investments this set should be able to survive well enough to get TW off then proceed to do what it does best. Though Rotom-W will still be an issue for her, however even without investment she still a 3HKO to VS

4 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 74-90 (39.7 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
and there's a 10% chance she's not a 2HKO with Thunderbolt (assuming only 4 Sp.A investment on the Rotom-W)

Assuming 31 Spe IV the investment of 52 allows her to outspeed Rotom-W by 1 and potentially get flinch hax with Air Slash, obviously not ideal as a TW from Rotom messes that up. However there's also Chesnaught support if Rotom-W is present.

Ampharos@Ampharosite
Modest
Moldbreaker
252 Sp.A 128Def 128Sp.D
Dragon Pulse
Power Gem
Discharge
Focus Blast

Been using this one for a while, it relies on stella defences to tank hits then retaliate with it's gargantuan special attack.

Chesnaught@Rocky Helmet
Impish Nature
Bulletproof
252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
Synthesis
Leech Seed
Seed Bomb
Stone Edge

I think this one is fairly self explanatory.

Of course this is only an initial idea so feedback would be great :)

 

[Meultima]

also; is it worth using legendaries that don't have ideal ivs? Most of mine have a nature I can work with, but only one good iv, and the rest crap. If everyone else out there is using hacked 6iv legends then I ain't gonna bother.

Well, Smogon is kinda the main hub of RNG manipulation research on the internet, so you might want to look into that. As I understand, one of the reasons RNG manipulation was researched was in order to compete with hackers, after all. I bred and SRed all my stuff in Gen VI the same way as everyone else, but everything I transferred through PokeBank, I RNGed.

If you want to try out some things, you can use Pokecheck to get new mons and test out what might work. Plenty of Smogon users upload legal RNGed mons for public download. Stuff from Gen IV downloaded to Gen V and event mons will not have the Pokecheck ribbon added to them, if you're bothered about that, so you can get yourself a nice Milos Island Thundurus-I with no issues.

Of course, this is just a suggestion, it's entirely up to you.

 

[ethan06]

So talking of legendary hacks, that Heatran I mentioned before apparently has HP [Electric] and is probably 31/30/30/31/31/30. idc, it passed the hack check so I'm using it. I've given it this set

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Modest
Flash Fire
some HP, Sp. Atk & Spd I think, will change
-Overheat
-Earth Power
-Hidden Power [Electric]
-Dragon Pulse

and I haven't tested it yet, but I think I'll end up swapping Hidden Power and Dragon Pulse for AncientPower and Flash Cannon. If anyone has better ideas (which is likely) then be sure to let me know :)

 

[TheJJT]

So talking of legendary hacks, that Heatran I mentioned before apparently has HP [Electric] and is probably 31/30/30/31/31/30. idc, it passed the hack check so I'm using it. I've given it this set

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Modest
Flash Fire
some HP, Sp. Atk & Spd I think, will change
-Overheat
-Earth Power
-Hidden Power [Electric]
-Dragon Pulse

and I haven't tested it yet, but I think I'll end up swapping Hidden Power and Dragon Pulse for AncientPower and Flash Cannon. If anyone has better ideas (which is likely) then be sure to let me know :)

I'd say go for another fire move entirely rather than Overheat - the stat drop is rarely ever worth it imo. Go for Fire Blast, little less power but no evil stat drop. HP Electric may also be quite useful for waters, however that said most of the waters that'll want to check or counter Heatran will be bulky.

 

[ethan06]

Yeah, the reason it was so useful back in DPP 3v3 was to slap Gyarados. It doesn't really hit anything else that hard, as the Slow Bros both run AV most of the time and Suicune can boost. And Gyarados can evolve away half it's Electric weakness. I guess I'll use it as a secondary TFlame check and to hit the Fairies that MManectric can't, or I'll use a different set that doesn't do exactly the same thing as Manny :s

 

[TheJJT]

Yeah, the reason it was so useful back in DPP 3v3 was to slap Gyarados. It doesn't really hit anything else that hard, as the Slow Bros both run AV most of the time and Suicune can boost. And Gyarados can evolve away half it's Electric weakness. I guess I'll use it as a secondary TFlame check and to hit the Fairies that MManectric can't, or I'll use a different set that doesn't do exactly the same thing as Manny :s

Gyarados can aye, though in my experience they tend not to since the Mevo doesn't really bring -that- much to Gyarados compared to others. Trying it out is probably the only way you'll know :)

 

[TheJJT]

Heh sorry for the double post; I swapped Thrash on my Gyarados for Sleep Talk just to subvert annoying spore leads
Also rather happy as I managed to breed two Adamant Marvel Scale Dratinis at 31/31/31/x/31/31 along with a magikarp of the same persuasion. Chuffed.

 

[stonerchris]

I'd upload more vids but, I just feel like the games are just meh (even the 2200 elo vids are just.. meh, nothing that special). I just pick a counter to what I expect the enemy to start with, a focus sash as second poke, and the last one is something that just cleans up any doubts/troubles left. I feel like if you're using things like mandibuzz, you're overestimating how complicated the 3v3 meta is.

Thanks, that made me realize perhaps I am overthinking it, most of my pokemon are defensive/stall types, guess I should be going with speed and attacks.

 

[Drakhun]

3v3 is an absolute garbage meta, and it single handedly made me hate Pokemon and just about threw my cart in the trash. It's god aweful, centralized around a few megas, and truely unplayable without them. You can sometimes have fun with it if you scum around terrible ratings and stop running into mega-gengar and mega-kanga, but it looks like heading up in the meta there are maybe six to ten usable pokes? Least fun I have ever had with pokemon, ever.

 

[TheJJT]

9J8G-WWWW-WWW5-LNSM
The Bulk paid off in this one, allowing me to survive the Brave bird and get the KO, then pinsir's bulk let me take the close combat from Infernape, Mevolve and KO with Stab Quick Attack (gotta love MPinsir's ability +30% to normal attacks and makes them flying) Then it was just a case of a Sword Dance and pop on Syl

 

[Chev]

3v3 is an absolute garbage meta, and it single handedly made me hate Pokemon and just about threw my cart in the trash. It's god aweful, centralized around a few megas, and truely unplayable without them. You can sometimes have fun with it if you scum around terrible ratings and stop running into mega-gengar and mega-kanga, but it looks like heading up in the meta there are maybe six to ten usable pokes? Least fun I have ever had with pokemon, ever.

I'm sorry to hear that, mate. I've been having a blast centralizing my team around an "ant-meta" strategy. I mean, this is what has been doing work for me lately...

Electivire Expert Belt
Jolly
Motor Drive
252 Atk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spd
- Thunderpunch
- Ice Punch
- Iron Tail
- Earthquake

Blastoise @Blastoisinite
Bold
Torrent (Mega Launcher)
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpAtk
- Water Pulse
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Flash Cannon

Goodra @Assault Vest
Modest
Gooey
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpAtk
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt

Camerupt @Quick Claw
Quiet
Solid Rock
252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef
- Earth Power
- Stone Edge
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon

Trevenant @Big Root
Quirky (IGT I haven't replaced quite yet, more pokes keep getting in the way)
Natural Cure
252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpDef
- Shadow Claw
- Earthquake
- Will-o-wisp
- Horn Leech

Malamar Leftovers
Jolly
Contrary
100 HP / 48 Atk / 38 Def / 72 SpDef / 252 Spd
- Superpower
- Psycho Cut
- Night Slash
- Rock Slide

I know, its a rather unorthodox team. But, thats what works very well in this new 3v3 metagame. It really isn't about OU centralization here, as it isn't a small community.

Malamar has obscure ev's to cover what defenses he needs to even out a bit, and full speed to outspeed somethings that wouldn't expect him to otherwise. He tends to survive 2-3 hits, usually wreaking havoc during that time.
Camerupt is a bit situational. He cannot take massive hits with his moderate defenses, but from he covers, he does a good job.
Trevenant is an in-game mon who has just been so useful altogether, that him being here really doesn't surprise me. Big Root has fully healed him after OHKOing a Swampert who thought his Ice Punch would OHKO. Other Moves are STAB, EQ for coverage and a burn if I see a worrisome mon on the other team.
Goodra, and Electivire are pretty straightforward for this new meta-game. Subbed out Brick Break/Cross Chop for Iron Tail to cover those Specially Defensive fairies. Most don't expect him to pack it.
Blastoise is a 5th gen defensive spinner/phasing Blastoise with an altered movepool. Rather than getting another one, I opted to keep my old fella, and he has done wonders for me. Having an attacker with 150 SpAtk roaming around with 184 Def is laughably fun. I always see people trying physical hits after a switch-in or if something faints and they have yet to OHKO him.

Now, this is just what I've found that works well. I've jumped from my low of 1406 to 1550(ish) in a single day. Losses still occur, but the vast majority of my latest battles have been wins for me. I'm not sure what part of this meta you don't enjoy, but this is by far the easiest to immerse yourself in quickly and effectively with just basic thought into your own strategy to back up what skill you do have. Remember, every meta-game is situational, if you can't adapt to it, it will leave you in the dust while the "new guys" live it up. It's like every online game I have ever played.

 

[savoy]

I hovered around the 1600s for a bit (just 20 games played) and it seems that priority is really important. Sucker punch, Aqua Jet, Gale Wings, etc.

It's really annoying how important that first lead is, I usually just put in Lum Berry Garchomp due to its relative ease in absorbing initial status/taunt etc and it can at the very least do damage before it dies. Are there any respectable leads that don't do much wrong regardless of the opponent?

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

I hovered around the 1600s for a bit (just 20 games played) and it seems that priority is really important. Sucker punch, Aqua Jet, Gale Wings, etc.

It's really annoying how important that first lead is, I usually just put in Lum Berry Garchomp due to its relative ease in absorbing initial status/taunt etc and it can at the very least do damage before it dies. Are there any respectable leads that don't do much wrong regardless of the opponent?

Sash Technician Breloom never steered you wrong, far as leads go, being able to hit just about everything save for certain Fairies and Grass-types. Though at times I like to use that guy midgame just to ensure something's dead. I think it's more or less just more important to have teammates that'll always cover your leads in the event you get the most unwanted matchup possible. Like if I led with Lum Garchomp and the opponent had a Mamoswine, I'd like to at least have my Rotom-H in the back, unless it had a severe disadvantage against the opponent's team. That kinda thing

 

[Meultima]

Might I also add, you can take advantage of the ubiquity of Rotoms, as most players tend to start off a battle with that defensive pivot, especially if they see a Talonflame in your team. Starting off with Megazard X in response pretty much ensures you get a Dragon Dance off with little to no risk, since very few Rotoms carry Thunder Wave, if at all.

Of course, there's always the option of going with the popular choice, namely using (Usually physically defensive) Rotom-W as your lead as well. It's just a good check for so many things, and a slow Volt Switch can allow a counter a safe switch-in.

 

[Weisskopf]

Here's what I've been running for a few days to good results:

Crawdaunt@Focus Sash
Adament
Adaptability
252 Atk/252 Spd/6 Hp
-Crabhammer
-Knockoff
-Aqua Jet
-Dragon Dance

Venusaur@Mega Stone
Modest
Chlorophyll/Thick Fat
252 Sp Atk/252 Spd/6 HP
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb
-Synthesis
-Sleep Powder

Mawile@Mega Stone
Adament
Intimidate/Power
252 HP/252 Atk/6 Def
-Swords Dance
-Brick Break
-Sucker Punch
-Stone Edge

Heatran@Air Balloon
Modest
Flash Fire
252 Sp Atk/252 Spd/6 HP
-Earth Power
-Flamethrower
-Overheat
-Dragon Pulse

Mamoswine@Choice Scarf
Adament
Thick Fat
252 Atk/252 Spd/6 HP
-Earthquake
-Icicle Crash
-Stone Edge
-Ice Shard

Latios@Life Orb
Timid
252 Sp Atk/252 Spd/6 HP
-Draco Meteor
-Energy Ball
-Lightningbolt
-Psychic

Pretty standard stuff. The Heatran covers the weaknessed of my megas and does a really nice job countering stuff like Charizards, Talonflames, and stuff like Garchomp that really struggles to kill it with a Balloon on. I really just wanted to post because I saw this Crawdaunt set floating around and it's excellent. It totally counters Talonflame and gives me a lot of early momentum as a lead. I've seen Choice Band and Scarfs used with it, but I think Sash is best after playing with it for awhile.

 

[ethan06]

Hey man, I like that team. You cover everything fairly well, but keep in mind that you might have a bit of a weakness to strong Fighting-types like Conkeldurr and Mega Lucario, especially if you don't bring Mega Venusaur. Of course, that means that you can't use Mawile when you see a Lucario in Team Preview, as otherwise it runs through your team with Fighting/Dark coverage. The special ones are particularly scary as they prey on Mawile's weaker Special Defense stat, allowing it to bust through much more easily with a +2 Aura Sphere. The only set I see a problem with Mawile's, actually: You really need Play Rough or a similar physical STAB move to really lay the hurt on the opponent with Megawile. I suggest dropping Stone Edge for Play Rough, as Mawile's only real chance against Talonflame is Sucker Punch anyway, given that it's slower. Brick Break is a bit iffy as well but you need the Fighting coverage, by the looks. tbh Mega Mawile is probably the weakest member of your team at the moment, as Venusaur is much more useful in 90% of situations and the fact that it's Dark coverage and it's role as a physical wallbreaker are largely redundant next to Crawdaunt. I suggest finding a strong Fighting-type to fill in the gap, perhaps one with some extra utility like Hitmontop or Knock Off Conkeldurr, or even a specially-based one such as Keldeo or a Mega Lucario of your own, which can hit opposing Lucario with Vacuum Wave.

Also, just a side note, but there's now a dedicated thread for team discussion: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-spot-rmt-thread.3500348/