Smogon Doubles UU

[Antar]

FYI, that banlist is wrong. Banlists are based off of three months of usage stats, and 1760 is waay too high a cutoff for Doubles. I'll try to generate an updated one as soon as I can.

 

[Pocket]

Yep, Antar brought up the problem with the 1760 usage stats to me, and he graciously accepted to crunch some numbers for us ;) (b/c the current 3 month usage stats are not representative of Doubles OU)

youngjake93, the new "cutoff" will be the top 10% of the Doubles playerbase.

 

[youngjake93]

FYI, that banlist is wrong. Banlists are based off of three months of usage stats, and 1760 is waay too high a cutoff for Doubles. I'll try to generate an updated one as soon as I can.

Pshh Antar have you been on the doubles ladder? The cutoff should be extra high. There is a lot of weeding out to do.

 

[Antar]

youngjake93, have you been on the OU ladder recently? We're going to try 1667--approximately 10% of Doubles players have a rating above 1667--and go from there.

 

[Antar]

All right. Here you go (Joim, why don't you fix it?)

Smogon Doubles banlist based on a cutoff of 1667 for this month (1850 for the last two, which were before the rescaling):

UU Banlist: Abomasnow, Aegislash, Amoonguss, Azumarill, Bisharp, Breloom, Chandelure, Charizard, Conkeldurr, Cresselia, Dragonite, Dusclops, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Garchomp, Gardevoir, Gastrodon, Genesect, Gengar, Gliscor, Greninja, Gyarados, Heatran, Hitmontop, Jirachi, Kangaskhan, Klefki, Landorus-Therian, Latios, Lucario, Mamoswine, Manectric, Mawile, Metagross, Ninetales, Politoed, Reuniclus, Rhyperior, Rotom-Wash, Sableye, Salamence, Scizor, Scrafty, Shaymin-Sky, Sylveon, Talonflame, Terrakion, Thundurus, Togekiss, Trevenant, Tyranitar, Venusaur, Volcarona, Whimsicott, Zapdos

(Jellicent and Ludicolo are now Doubles UU)

 

[Stratos]

can we go back to 1760? literally every one of those adds and drops is something i disagree with, except perhaps zapdos

 

[BlankZero]

can we go back to 1760? literally every one of those adds and drops is something i disagree with, except perhaps zapdos

Zapdos and Metagross and maybe Ninetales, just to keep it out of UU. And Whimsicott. Fuck that thing.

 

[Pocket]

can we go back to 1760? literally every one of those adds and drops is something i disagree with, except perhaps zapdos

The previous Doubles OU list was incorrect, since it was only based off of one month of 1760 usage stats, and tiering are based off of cumulative usage stats spanning 3 months.

Also OU can afford to have the cutoff at 1760, or the top 2% of the playerbase, since they see proportionally MUCH larger number of games than Doubles. 2% of 2.5 million games = an effective sample size of 50k games. This month Doubles saw 140k games. The top 50k games (the top 2% of OU) in Doubles would account for the top 35% of the Doubles games.

Antar is using top 10% of the ladder, which is already a smaller effective sample size already. I'd rather not go any lower. The new Doubles OU list is a drastic improvement compared to the original one, so I'll let the data do the speaking :]

Antar, correct me if my logic is wrong x_x

 

[BlankZero]

I think it is more the fact that Scrafty and Jellicent are now released into UU, as well as Ludicolo, which is scary AF. I don't like the Banlist entirely but it does make you think harder about teambuilding, although DeoA and KyuB are gonna be everywhere for certain.

 

[Joim]

Sorry, guys, I've updated it. The tiering process is strict and we follow it strictly.

 

[BlankZero]

I like Scrafty down here personally. It gives a way to deal with DeoA and KyuB in the form if Intimidate, Dark/Fight STAB, and massive bulk.

 

[Audiosurfer]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-100494215
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-100506415

played w/ the new drops and built my team. Basically built a team w/ a bunch of Pokemon I thought would be really good in this metagame. In the first replay fangame's team wasn't too great which made winning a lot easier, so I can't really assess how good the mons I used are from that battle, but from theorymon I'm confident that all of the Pokemon I used will see a lot of success in Doubles UU and prove to be influential in the tier. second replay was a bit more interesting, was able to show off more mons than in the first one.

also please more people make doubles uu teams, this tier is actually nice so it deserves some more love

 

[Pocket]

Wait Scrafty is in the OU list - why did we think it was UU ?.?

 

[Stratos]

next person to post about the shitty ladder instead of the metagame gets infracted. id add something more positive but i sadly havent had a chance to play this meta yet. let's keep it on topic tho folks

 

[BlankZero]

So no Scrafty then? That's sad, as it means my team needs a redesign. It also makes KyuB and DeoA that much scarier. I see a lot of Trick Room abuse with those monsters on Clean Up Duty really. Jellicent/Escavalier plus A and B, then 2 fillers of your choice.

 

[Audiosurfer]

Wait Scrafty is in the OU list - why did we think it was UU ?.?

(Jellicent, Ludicolo and Scrafty are now Doubles UU)

so yeah dunno which it is

 

[Antar]

Sorry, Scrafty is OU. I'll check the list over to make sure there's were no other mistakes.

 

[BlankZero]

Are we gonna have Sleep clause in UU too?

 

[BlankZero]

Some notable threats I'm not seeing on the banlist right now:

Gougeist
Keldeo
Suicune
Raikou
Latias *Still*
Kyurem-Black *Still*
Escavalier
All Rotoms besides Wash

Also, I'd like to know if we are going to have Sleep Clause here too, especially seeing as there's no Amoongus/Breloom in this tier.

 

[Audiosurfer]

Hey so I don't know if this tier is dead or not, but I think the banlist needs updating. http://sweepercalc.com/stats/doubles.html is a link to the doubles usage statistics from April, and assuming we are going with the traditional 3.47% cutoff, here is a list of the mons that would make the banlist for easy copy+pasting (in order of usage).

Charizard, Greninja, Talonflame, Garchomp, Togekiss, Kangaskhan, Aegislash, rotom-w, gengar, tyranitar, venusaur, dragonite, heatran, azumarill, politoed, conkeldurr, lando-t, scizor, gardevoir, whimsicott, ferrothorn, klefki, lucario, sylveon, mawile, breloom, clefable, amoonguss, hitmontop, gyarados, manectric, volcarona, infernape, cresselia, terrakion, jolteon, thundurus, alakazam, salamence, weavile, mamoswine, gliscor, excadrill, kingdra, ninetales, bisharp, aerodactly, gastrodon, metagorss, sabeleye, zapdos, chandelure, arcanine, espeon, scrafty, meowsitc, blaziken

I also think Latios, keldeo, jirachi, shaymin-sky, kyurem-b, pinsir, and deoxys-A are worthy of being banned from UU but they fall below the cutoff.

ill post w/ the actual banlist later but this is wrong. we use 1695 usage as a cutoff, not just the straight usage, so that banlist isn't correct.

 

[Pocket]

Are we gonna have Sleep clause in UU too?

No Sleep Clause in Smogon UU, just like regular Doubles.

Also UU tier shift is calculated every 3 months. Since the last one happened in the end of March, we need to wait till end of June to come up with the updated placements.

 

[Audiosurfer]

this is a cool tier. played with Pocket today, got the replay here:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoublescurrent-127518466
might write more on my experiences with the tier some other time

Updated the OP with the new banlist

 

[realiti]

Semi TR looks great in this meta. Many old users have come back, and some previously mediocre Pokemon can be viable. With great users such as Jellicent, Gallade, Reuniclus, Victini and more. The list of abusers is also pretty good. Ranging from slow (Ampharos, Rhyperior, Heracross) to average (Hydreigon, Gallade, Rotom-H) these Pokemon work really well in this meta. The beauty of TR is that there are many different Pokemon that can work on a TR team, making the style versatile and unpredictable.

Despite TR being common, Tailwind still is excellent in Doubles UU. Tornadus is a great example, having priority Tailwind and Taunt to reliably shut down TR and to safely get Tailwind up. Other examples are Suicune and Latias. In a balanced metagame like this one, many Pokemon appreciate the extra speed, such as Manaphy, Victini, and Hydreigon. Like TR, this style of playing is also very versatile.

Finally, Hyper Offense. This style has lots of returning threats from singles, such as Darkrai and Blaziken. These Pokemon finally have a chance to shine. There aren't many walls that don't get wrecked by Darkrai, and Fighting type walls are easily handled by a Psychic or a Flying type which you almost certainly have (I would not run a single HO team without one as they are too good in this meta). I almost always choose Tornadus on my team, as Taunt shuts down TR, a flaw to HO style, and also has Tailwind and a strong Hurricane. Nevertheless, this is a very strong style.

Just listing some standouts in this meta: Tornadus, Jirachi, Keldeo, Deo-A (scary), Victini, Gallade, Darkrai, Weavile (TR Mini-Counter), Hydreigon, and much more.

Comment if I miss something

 

[Audiosurfer]

I'm adding a sample teams section to the OP of this thread, so if you've got a team you'd be willing to submit, either post it here or pm it to me and I'll add it (note: it does go towards the achievement tour). Be sure to actually play a bit with your teams before you submit them though, don't just theorymon

 

[Audiosurfer]

sample team

Landorus @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Rock Slide

Latias @ Dragon Fang
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

Shaymin @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
Modest Nature
- Seed Flare
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Tailwind
- Protect

Rotom-Heat @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect

Empoleon @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Flash Cannon
- Protect

Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Protect

This is a team that's meant to handle a wide variety of things, since the Doubles UU metagame isn't really solidified. The team's not the fastest so Scarf Landorus is meant to check any faster threats that may appear while being a great late-game cleaner. Latias is powerful and has a great typing and bulk to make for a great offensive pivot. Shaymin helps form a FWG core and brings Tailwind for when I need some increased speed. Empoleon's Steel typing helps check Latias and other things that may pop up, and it's pretty bulky and powerful too. Rotom-Heat is just one of the best mons in the tier, and its typing is great to check opposing Fire-types and other things. Medicham was for Fake Out, but it's also very powerful and can be quite threatening offensively.