Project The PU Viability Ranking Thread

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Posting on all of the noms I disagree with. If a nom was made since my last post in this thread and I don't talk about it here, I either agree with it or am neutral to it. Anyway:

Lumineon to D

D is a bit harsh, while it may be very outclassed by multiple Pokemon and not have stats well suited for its job (or any job, really), it isn't Beedrill or Noctowl levels of bad. It's faster than Pelipper and bulkier than bulkier than Swanna, plus it isn't weak to SR unlike pretty much every other Defogger in the tier, so it isn't completely nicheless either. However, it's still pretty awful and stupidly outclassed for the most part, so I think it should still drop, but only to C-.

Clamperl to C

Why would I ever use this? It can't set up on anything, is really slow even after a boost (so is Carracosta, but it has great bulk and strong priority), and provides so much less defensively to a team than Carracosta and even Barbaracle, which unlike Clamperl can still be useful if they don't set up. Even if you do magically set it up, it just gets revenged right away if your opponent has a Sneasel, Purugly, or any Choice Scarf user. I mean ffs this thing is so frail after it's set up that it's almost OHKOed by Golem's Sucker Punch. Why would you ever use this when there are so many better sweepers available?

Kricketune to A- / B+

I could see A-, but B+ is way too low. I think the posts that want to drop it really overestimate how common Defog is, as well as how much trouble web teams actually have with it. Against stall and balance, where Defoggers are the most common, web teams are already at a decent advantage because they commonly run more than one of ridiculous things like Choice Band Flareon, NP Mr. Mime, Marowak, and other things that are really potent against slower teams. The only good offensive Defogger is Swanna, which doesn't fit on all offensive teams and isn't all that common on offense in general, even in high level play. Additionally, Sticky Web teams don't even have that much trouble with defog if you build them right, with things like multiple fast taunters such as Dodrio, Taunt CM Serperior, NP Taunt Misdreavus and Mr. Mime, and Taunt Sneasel, as well as Purugly, all of which make it significantly harder (or riskier in Purugly's case) to actually Defog against these teams. While webs have fallen out of favor recently, they're still a pretty solid playstyle that is good enough to warrant somewhere in at least the A ranks.

Vespiquen to D

So you have a defensive Pokemon with a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, a horrible defensive typing, and nothing over other defensive Pokemon? I could understand if it walled an important threat better than almost anything else and/or did something useful outside of maybe walling one or two things (see: corsola), but as it is I see absolutely no reason to ever consider Vespiquen for a team and by extension a rank above E.

Corphish to D

Slow, frail, outclassed, not laughably weak with any move that isn't water type, etc etc. I'm sorry but why would I ever use this? It's also hard walled by the best defensive mon in the tier which is never a good thing if you have questionable viability anyway. Even if it has a "niche" in UU (which seems beyond ridiculous to me as well) why does that make it usable in PU?


Also, here are some things haven't been talked about that I think seem like they're too high or too low, but haven't used / am too lazy to write about:

Things that could move up:

Kadabra
Togetic (mainly after scorp, trc, and I discovered how good nastypass is)
Fraxure
Kingler
Quilladin
Prinplup
Machoke
Fearow (not rekt as hard by rock types as dodrio, also has u-turn and defog)
Grumpig (probably still bad but is usable now that musharna is b&)
Dwebble
Simisage (http://puu.sh/cEUWz/56df127cff.png one of these is not like the rest...)


Things that could move down:

Rapidash
Drifblim
Glaceon
Electabuzz
Furfrou
Raticate (slower and weaker than quick feet ursaring, only has u-turn and sucker over it)
 
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Was very bored and i decided to try offensive Grumpig and CB/CS Fearow. To pur it bluntly Fearow is trash. It has U-turn, ok, but it so rarely forces a switch that you will even get to use it and Drill Run is still supid weak against anything not Bastiodon (252 Atk Choice Band Fearow Drill Run vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Carracosta: 160-190 (55.1 - 65.5%) With CHOICE BAND, scarf does 252 Atk Fearow Drill Run vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Carracosta: 108-128 (37.2 - 44.1%) meaning that white herb carracosta SETS UP AND BEATS IT) and I would actually drop it down if possible.

Offensive Grumpig though actually surprised me. With Taunt + 3 Attacks and an offensive spread it is still an awesome check to Fire and Ice types and actually hits kinda hard (and beats common leads like Goalie and Piloswine and Defoggers). Defensive is also very good on stall with huge support movepool and ability to check a lot of scary stuff like Ninetales and Duosion (who has to rise BTW). B- is the place.

Random stuff that needs to rise:
TANGELA TO A
Piloswine (and Garbodor) to S probably
Prinplup to C+
Clefairy to B-
Solrock is good

Drops
Murkrow to C
Kricketune to A-
WIGGLITUFF AND AURORUS AND BUTTERFree and LaprASS TO C
 
I agree with galbia on everything. And think Clefairy might even deserve to be higher. With a max Def / Calm Mind set it beats a bunch of physical threats (band syther, throh, poliwrath, etc.) . And even things like scarf raichu and others not mentioned. Can even run a support set with Twave and rocks. Very underrated mon.
 
galbia mentioned this in passing, but it's important so I'm giving it a full nom. (also we agreed on irc that fearow should stay where it is)

Nominating Garbodor to S rank

As the best spikes setter in a tier defined by spikes, Garbodor is easily one of the most metagame defining Pokemon in PU (and not just because of how well it fits with the name of the tier lol). Toxic Spikes are ridiculously good in this tier since every spinner hates them, all of our non-niche defoggers are literally all the same type bar the very passive togetic, which really limits the ability of teams find room for defoggers, and most good Pokemon in the tier hate them (especially poliwrath). Additionally, all of the Pokemon that absorb them are the ones that set them, so trying to get rid of them this way just centralizes the tier more and more around them. Garbodor is especially good at setting up spikes because it can set them up on threats such as the omnipresent Poliwrath, as well as Sneasel (which garbodor is one of the better checks to) Throh, Scyther, Tangela, and plenty of other things. It can also run multiple good sets, like the physically defensive set that sets up on half the tier and the lead set with explosion to "block" Defog and Rapid Spin. It also hits pretty hard even uninvested thanks to its good attack stat and the high base power of STAB Gunk Shot. Aftermath is also is really useful, especially when paired with Rocky Helmet. Overall, Garbodor is the main reason why so many good teams are spikes-centric and why spikes and toxic spikes are so good in PU because it's just so good at setting them up. All of these strong points make Garbodor definitely worthy of S rank in my opinion.
 
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Completely agree with Magnemite on that one, Spikes are meta defining in PU, and Garbodor, the best Spiker of the tier, also has a lot of utility outside of Hazard ( By that, i mean, it's not just a sitting duck, setting up Hazard, huh ), and by that, i mean check/counter some of the scariest threats in PU like Sneasel,so Garbodor clearly deserves S Rank.
 
I am way ahead of you all with my nominations
Magnemite said everything already about Garbodor (bar maybe the fact that sdef Garbodor is ultra viable too and sets up on a lot of shit) and I obviously totally agree about moving it to S rank so I'll just focus on bad Pokemon that need to go down.

Lapras:
This Pokemon might look cool on paper with its beefy base 130 HP and good offensive movepool containing moves like Hydro Pump, Freeze Dry, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Psychic, and pretty much any coverage you 'd ever want (bar Scald t.t). In reality Lapras is a very mediocre Pokemon in the PU metagame. Its awful Ice / Water typing cripples it to the point that it is outclassed defensively by almost any Water-type in the tier (Poliwrath, Pelipper, even Lumineon) and its modest attacking stats and mediocre speed coupled with lots of common weaknesses make it very subpar in offensive roles. I really don't get why it is B- while it clearly belongs to somewhere in C.
 
A few noms before TRC updates the thread:

Purugly from A to A-
I've been one of the biggest users of this thing, but it has a few important flaws which make it not quite worthy of A. Every non-Togetic defogger has Scald, which limits its ability to switch into them, it really wants U-turn but doesn't have room for it, is walled by Golem and Carracosta, and is outclassed on non-hazard teams.

Regice from B- to B+
This has been getting popular in high level play recently, and for good reason. Rock Polish Regice is a really solid sweeper, with perfect 3 move coverage that Rotom-F wishes it had, and insane special bulk that helps it set up on stuff.

Glaceon from B to B-
Other Ice-types have better coverage, better bulk, better speed, good secondary stab, and/or rock polish or agility. I see no real reason to run this, outside of maybe like specs or something.
 
Definitly agree with Regice moving up, this thing is a force to be reckoned with:
- While it's typing isn't good defensively and doesn't play in its favor, I'll just remind you that Regice has 80/100/200 bulk, which is pretty insane and it makes Regice very tough to RK in some situations, considering it's a PU Set up sweeper (Mainly. I mean, i know there's some defensive sets of Regice like Rest Talk but i've never been a fan of it, i find Offensive Regice to be way more effective ).
- 100 Spa may not seem too great either, but with a Life Orb and the Modest Nature, i can assure you Regice hits pretty hard.
- Regice's Coverage is sublime, BoltBeam+Focus Miss is definitly one of the best coverage any pokemon could hope for ( I'm looking at you, ROTOM-FROST )
- On the other side, while, as i said before, 100 Spa is pretty good, it can be walled, and forcing Regice to switch isn't good for you, since Hazards really hurts Regice, better run a Defogger on your team or clean the path before starting to plan anything with Regice.

Overall, Regice is great in PU, and it's probably one of the best offensive Ice Type of the tier, with Rotom Mow.

I'm also approving the drop of Purugly, considering that even if you come on a Defog, you're not even sure to do enough to break the Defogger, and then there's the Carracosta that comes at you, and all other kind of pokemons that just stops Purugly from doing its job, i'm not saying it's bad, not at all, Purugly is great, but dropping from A- wouldn't be so bad.

No opinion on Glaceon, never really tried it.
 

MZ

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Glaceon from B to C Since I've actually used Glaceon, I can say pretty confidently that it is nowhere near B material. While I've never used defensive I don't know why I'd run it over Lickilicky. Offensively, specs Glaceon is basically banded flareon without good coverage or priority. All it gets is ice beam, shadow ball, and hidden power, and base 65 speed is pretty meh. It also loses to the best mon in the tier, Poliwrath. I wouldn't be opposed to B-, but Aurorus is also B- and better than it, especially when it gets earth power in ORAS. Maybe if it got freeze dry...

Serperior from A to A+ Sub cm is the ultimate win condition and can easily sweep teams on its own. Oh yeah, and it also has other sets and options like sub/seed, coil, and screens, but basically sub cm is good. This is an example of me being an absolutely awful player and still winning just due to how good Serperior is with an inferior spread and moveset: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-178192991
 
going to try and make a nomination without creating a storm and have me question my life

Stunfisk to B+
Stunfisk looks pretty bad on paper, with all S rank Pokemon beating it, with the exception of RestTalk Poliwrath. But behind that silly face and flat body, it can be a pretty good specially defensive wall. It has pretty decent defensive stats with 109/84/99, and can wall a lot of special attackers. With access to good STAB, Stealth Rock, Scald, Foul Play, and Pain Split, Stunfisk's stats aren't the only note-worthy thing about it. Sure, its typing isn't really helping him, but his stats make up for it. And ability wise, it kind of sucks Limber,best ability, Static can be nice support in situations.

Vs. Chatot
252 SpA Life Orb Chatot Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Stunfisk: 172-203 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Chatot Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Stunfisk: 341-402 (80.9 - 95.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Stunfisk Discharge vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Chatot: 284-336 (96.9 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (Guaranteed after SR or 1 round of LO)

Stunfisk is able to switch in to either a Boomburst or Nasty Plot, with SR up and beats Chatot.

Vs. Haunter
252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Stunfisk: 113-134 (26.8 - 31.8%) -- 95.4% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Stunfisk Discharge vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Haunter: 117-138 (50.6 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Stunfisk is able to switch into a Shadow Ball and take the easily, and win with two Discharges.

Vs. Kadabra
252 SpA Kadabra Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Stunfisk: 102-120 (24.2 - 28.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Stunfisk Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kadabra: 109-130 (49 - 58.5%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO

Basically, unless Stunfisk gets extremely unlucky with min-max, it can win vs Kadabra.

Vs Raichu
252 SpA Choice Specs Raichu Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Stunfisk: 112-132 (26.6 - 31.3%) -- 83.7% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Stunfisk Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Raichu: 198-234 (75.8 - 89.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Is able to switch in, and 2HKO with Earth Power, taking all the HP Ices Raichu wants to throw at it.

Vs Zebstrika
252 SpA Choice Specs Zebstrika Overheat vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Stunfisk: 111-131 (26.3 - 31.1%) -- 79% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Zebstrika Overheat vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Stunfisk: 56-66 (13.3 - 15.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 SpA Choice Specs Zebstrika Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Stunfisk: 102-122 (24.2 - 28.9%) -- 1.2% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


0 SpA Stunfisk Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zebstrika: 236-278 (81 - 95.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Stunfisk walls Zebstrika to hell and back, having a 50/50 chance to OHKO with Earth Power, while not fearing anything it can throw at it.


Overall, Stunfisk is a pretty nice mon that can wall a lot of special attackers without a super effective hit, and even some with one. With its stats and moves, I feel B+ fits it well, or is at least better than Floatzel and Bastiodon.
 
Time for an update. This update did take longer than usual but I was gathering opinions, and I really don't need posts like the one above. Thanks ^_^
Code:
Garbodor from A+ to S
Serperior from A to A+
Barbaracle from A+ to A
Tangela from A- to A
Kricketune from A to A-
Pelipper from B+ to A-
Purugly from A to A-
Beeheyem from B- to B+
Regice from B- to B+
Fraxure from B- to B
Rapidash from B+ to B
Clefairy from C to B-
Duosion from C+ to B-
Kingler from C+ to B-
Quilladin from C+ to B-
Electabuzz from B- to C+
Grumpig from C to C+
Prinplup from C to C+
Lapras from B- to C
Raticate from C+ to C
Lumineon from C to C-
Simisage from D to C-
Gourgeist from E to D-
Gourgeist-L from E to D-
Illumise from C- to D-
Porygon from D to D-
Growlithe from D- to unranked
Justification:

Garbodor is moving up to S rank because almost everyone I've talked to about it agrees that it's one of the best Pokemon in the tier. Spikes and Toxic Spikes are incredibly potent in PU due to the lack of hazard removers, and Garbodor is the best setter of them; having both of them as well as the bulk and typing to carry it out. It can set its Spikes in a suicidal fashion or as a pivot on bulkier teams, both of which are marvellous at setting at least two layers in a typical game, and often three. Many people believe that this Pokemon is broken, and it is almost certainly moving up in the next tier shift.

Beeheyem and Regice are moving in rather large jumps because they are the subject of recent trends putting them on the forefront of offensive teams, although in different roles. Beeheyem with Specs Analytic Psychics demolishes stalls lacking Zweilous and has no offensive switch-ins. Rock Polish Regice is a very bulky and strong sweeper with great coverage and a good STAB move, perfect candidates for B+ rank.

D- rank is now encompassing all Pokemon that may be viable on a team but are completely outclassed, so Gourgeist, Gourgeist-L, and Illumise are moving there.

Everything has been explained in the nominations in the thread but I explained the controversial / major changes; I can justify any change if you VM me to. Now just a comment on some things that didn't change.

When evaluating the Hippopotas and Stoutland proposals, I revisited the same argument of that the two are used on the same time in all circumstances; one should never be used without the other, and while I actually disagree, that isn't why these Pokemon didn't change. I ignored this logic in favour of something more relevant to the viability ranking: efficiency. Both of these Pokemon are used on a sand team and with each other, yes, but how well does each of these Pokemon perform in what it is intended to do on the sand team? Stoutland aims to wallbreak and sweep, while Hippopotas aims to setup sand. Assuming them being used with each other places these versions of support on the same level, Stoutland is an efficient sweeper and wallbreaker because of its power, difficulty to wall, and ability to demolish offense. Hippopotas in contrast performs reasonably well as a sand setter, but in that role it is too passive to discourage switch-ins from some of the most threatening Pokemon of the tier and it doesn't have the raw bulk to significantly check anything while it provides sand. Therefore, I have decided that Stoutland is better at sand sweeping than Hippopotas is at providing sand, again, when valuing those roles equally due to them being used with each other only.

Ursaring I personally believe is not on par with the rest of the Pokemon in A- rank, so I'm not sold on this one yet. Metang I was very close to raising but WildHope raised some very valid points, so I'd like more discussion. I was initially going to move Camerupt up last update due to it being the prime Electric check, but I got some negatives on that one so I think it's fine where it is. Kadabra is either easy to wall or bad vs offense depending on its item choice so it's too inconsistent in certain games to be considered an A rank threat, though I'm open to change when given relevant arguments. Finally, Togetic is not moving to A rank based on NastyPass because its placement in A- rank is partially due to NastyPass, I don't consider Togetic A- rank solely because of its defensive set.

Moving on to the future, I have a few things I'd like discussed by the community before making any radical changes. The first is swapping Tauros to S rank and Carracosta to A+ rank on the list. This is based on personal experience but I'm not going to justify it, I'm going to ask for the community's input. The next is Clamperl getting a rank, I have never seen this used so I need something on that too. I also believe Misdreavus should be in A rank because its offensive and defensive sets are top threats in the metagame and I can really see it there.

I probably won't have time to update the OP today, but for all those who posted, thanks a lot! It's incredibly valued having discussion here.
 

MZ

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I definitely agree with the Tauros and Carracosta switch as well as Misdreavus rising, but why are we ranking Clamperl? 35/85/55 defenses are hard to get a shell smash with against offensive teams, and there are better wall breakers against defensive teams. I know a lot of people like Clamperl because it hits hard, but lack of eviolite hurts, and I don't know why I'd use it over even huntail. Also confused why Porygon is listed when Lickilicky beats it defensively. What does it do offensively, dual dance?
 
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I definitely agree with the Tauros and Carracosta switch as well as Misdreavus rising, but why are we ranking Clamperl? 35/85/55 defenses are hard to get a shell smash with against offensive teams, and there are better wall breakers against defensive teams. I know a lot of people like Clamperl because it hits hard, but lack of eviolite hurts, and I don't know why I'd use it over even huntail. Also confused why Porygon is listed when Lickilicky beats it defensively. What does it do offensively, dual dance?
Porygon has trace and recover, which gives it a niche
 
Yes the other two gourgeist forms are in D

Thats all I wanted!

I also second the notion of moving Tauros up to S and Carracosta down to A+. I've had problems with Carracosta in the teambuilder but not the battlefield, unlike Tauros. Special Carracosta isn't a thing in my opinion either

I wouldn't even mind him moving down to a-. Common pokes like roselia and serperior wall him badly
 
I'll just bump a few thoughs on the changes in here:

Tauros


I agree with this thing getting raised to S rank. there are very few pokemon in the tier (those who can are easy to wear down) which can handle him and his speed tier is godlike. Both Scarf and Standard LO are very strong against offensive teams and Bulky teams have very few answers to it. Despite only having mediocre STAB it can still hit relativly hard thanks to Sheer force and his ability to go mixed (or fully special if real) makes him really difficult to switch into. My main problem with Tauros is how it offers little defensive synergy and can therefor be a bit more difficult to put on HO teams, but it is minor compared to his great strengths.

Carracosta


I have mixed feelings for this guy. at one side, I see the best setup sweeper in the tier and a solid SR lead, but on the other side I see low speed and a fuckton of weaknesses. he does have some cool gimmicks like Special SS and Band, but usually Carracosta has problems sweeping because of how hard it is walled by defensive Grasstypes (Im looking at you tangela) on all physical sets (Mix and Special can get past it but looses out on Priority or are to gimmicky for serious teambuilding). Offensive teams have no problem stopping him by adding a scarfer not weak to aqua jet, since even at +2 32 base speed is not getting you anywhere. since Tangela is on any Stall team Carracosta will have problems beating them too. aside from SS, his SR lead set is pretty cool. You will need some heavy investment to outpeed base 70s, but it is worth it. It can beat every Defogger in the tier 1v1 (if you dont get burned ofc) and I cannot think of a singel other common SR pokemon which can beat it. Knock off allow you to severly cripple Tangela and makes it a much bigger pain for the rest of your team and takes away Polis precious leftovers. (since they will not be expection it obv). You can also run EQ if Garb is a pain. I think he is good enough for S, but I dont mind him dropping to A+.

Gourgeist formes


They are useble, They are usable as gimmicks, since calling a Gourgeist-M/L ''Gourgeist-XL'' allow you to outspeed some treaths with little investment. But beyond that they are outclassed. D- is fine.

Simisage


I actually think this guy is worth higher than this, something closer to C or Possible C+. Not because of his NP set, but because of his Stallbreaker/anti-lead set, which beats every common hazard lead (besides garb, but it can taunt it) and can stop various Stall stamples like Licky and Poli in their tracks. It also has a very good matchup against stamples on offensive teams with its wide movepull and 101 speed. but C- is better than D obv.


Things I would like to rise (Have to play around with them more first obv)
Solrock
Metang
Gabite
Lairon
Rampardos
Camerupt
 
Well... i haven't posted anything in a while but now i'm going with some proposals...

Tauros to S: Actually even if initially i thought this poké was overrated, after facing it a lot of times i can properly say that it is amazingly good at what it does. It's terribly quick and strong using Sheer Force sets, and can even be relatively bulky using Intimidate sets, without being a weakling. Heck, it can even use Fire Blast to roast common checs or counter to physical sweepers like Eviolite Tangela and Avalugg.

4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Avalugg: 244-289 (62 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Tangela: 179-213 (53.5 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also... IDK how people like to use Rock Climb on Tauros when Body Slam is just slightly weaker and A LOT more reliable... so...

Carracosta to A+: IDK... sometimes I feel like it's pretty good and can sweep through teams unprepared, but sometimes it's a little bit underwhelming... :s so, I'm not sure about this, but that speed is something that is TRULY painful to work with... and that's why I think that it should be A+

Purugly to B+ or even B: I have been using this stupid cat a while in PU and while it can be pretty strong with a Defiant boost, A LOT of times it gets kicked out really quickly... If you get Defiant cuz of webs, Purugly is too slow and frail to really do something useful, and if you get it because of Defog, you can instead receive a Scald and have a stupid Burned cat that deals damage like a feather...

Hippopotas to C+: Hippopotas is a nice Partner for Stoutland, and it can do some defensive duties but besides that, i think it totally kills momentum and it has almost zero offensive presence, and that's why I personally see it as a "Niche Pokémon". Also, a lot of Deffoggers can kick its butt with Scald or other Special moves. I Know it does have a nice Physical Bulk but in my personal experience that isn't enough a lot of times to avoid being setup fodder or being worn down progressively in the match.

Simisage to C-: Simisage does have some perks that other grass types in the tier doesn't have... It does have a lot more speed that the other Grass Types besides Serperior, and it does have some extra coverage that Serperior would kill for... it can also go mixed with ease, something that Serperior can't do either. I can agree that its lack of bulk can be disappointing but i don't think that is enough to rank it that low...

That's what I remember right now! :3
Cya guys!
 
>Your team was rejected for the following reasons: - Tauros can't learn Body Slam because it's incompatible with its ability or another move.
I dunno why is that... cuz Body Slam is a tutor from Gen 3 that can be transfered to later versions like Gen IV and then Gen V... and in there Zen Headbutt and Iron Head are both tutors (Zen Headbutt doesn't even matter that much since it's a lvl up move), which means that a Tauros could "normally" have those three moves... in Gen VI can also learn Rock Slide and Fire Blast through TMs so... i don't really get it...

Finally, even if there is a reason that i'm missing, i guess that you can just transfer one Tauros with Body Slam to ORAS and then you shouldn't have any problems with compatibility... am I right? I hope so... :3
 

Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
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I dunno why is that... cuz Body Slam is a tutor from Gen 3 that can be transfered to later versions like Gen IV and then Gen V... and in there Zen Headbutt and Iron Head are both tutors (Zen Headbutt doesn't even matter that much since it's a lvl up move), which means that a Tauros could "normally" have those three moves... in Gen VI can also learn Rock Slide and Fire Blast through TMs so... i don't really get it...

Finally, even if there is a reason that i'm missing, i guess that you can just transfer one Tauros with Body Slam to ORAS and then you shouldn't have any problems with compatibility... am I right? I hope so... :3
Well, Sheer Force is an ability only attainable in gen5 so you can't get it in Gen3, meaning that you can teach Tauros body slam in gen3 but then its impossible to get the ability at the same time because its learned in gen5. (that was a bit jumbled, hopefully it made sense).
 
Well, Sheer Force is an ability only attainable in gen5 so you can't get it in Gen3, meaning that you can teach Tauros body slam in gen3 but then its impossible to get the ability at the same time because its learned in gen5. (that was a bit jumbled, hopefully it made sense).
Hahahahahaha I'm feeling like a total moron right now... xD it was pretty obvious actually but well... I Guess we just have to handle that shaky accuracy from Rock Climb U_U'

In the end I think that isn't changing my mind about Tauros being S tier material...

And thanks fat Montsegur for your words of wisdom :3
 
agreeing with tauros to S and costa to A+

Mantine to B+

This was B+ before but dropped due to the ineffectiveness of the defensive set due to its lack of recovery, but recently the rain dance set has been getting some popularity among good players recently and for good reason. it's a lot like ludicolo in NU; it has very strong hydro in the rain, it is really fast in rain, and has decent coverage. just to give an idea of its power:

252+ SpA Life Orb Mantine Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky in Rain: 208-246 (49 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

also, defensive sets are still decent and it's very good on full rain teams.

Aurorus to A- This mon got a ton of cool stuff in the transition to oras. hyper voice and earth power are really nice buffs, but the big thing it got was stealth rock. aurorus is the fastest sr setter in the metagame, and one of the strongest. it beats most other leads thanks to being faster and doing a ton of damage to all of them. specs still hits like a truck, band does too and is a cool lure, and apparently TRC has used subcm and found it to be good as well.

also TRC and I are planning on making some significant changes to the rankings, we'll keep you posted (heh)
 
Well from what I can tell so far Mega-camerupt isn't very broken. Too slow - clearly created with VGC trick room teams in mind rather than singles.
 

Ares

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Well from what I can tell so far Mega-camerupt isn't very broken. Too slow - clearly created with VGC trick room teams in mind rather than singles.
How is 2HKOing the entire PU meta not very broken lol? It has great bulk and can take multiple hits from lots of different mons, Sheer Force Fire Blast hits like a Truck and only really Lickilicky can switch in from full and not risk getting 2HKOd. So I really don't see how its not very broken lol.
 
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