A New Direction for Other Metagames

[scpinion]

I want to chime in on some elements of these last two posts b/c I think they're great ideas.

Sample teams are fairly bare outside of Stabmons, and things like Inverse Battle which have no samples and no builders in OM teambuilding shop...why does it exist lol. Honestly, what I'm trying to say this that you're attempting to get people out of their comfort zones.

I can speak for mono best, but I think this applies to the other OMs with mega-threads/websites. Most of our sample teams are contained within those resources. For monotype, we have a TON of sample teams on the website. The creation of the sample team section (and subsequent expansion) is one of the best things we've done in a while. More on this later.

Another factor that might be contributing is how so many OMs are slotted together that you get lost, there's a reason that PU got way more popular when it got its own separate section and subforum, FU spiked when it moved into PU, and megathreads that are discussion, good cores, VR, speed tiers, etc. in one thread are the new thing.

I think the megathreads are a good idea, but if we're really going to try and cultivate the existing metagames then sub-forums are the way to go. As Megazard and imas234 said, PU is an excellent example of how a metagame can really take off when given its own section.

Hell, OM tutoring was a thing for a single session, bring that back, PU's has been so popular we don't have enough tutors.

Monotype's tutoring program has the same problem, we're going to have to expand this in the very near future. The trick is just figuring out the most efficient way to do this w/o having to make wholesale changes again later (i.e. do we host it on the website? completely integrate with OM tutoring?).

I don't think a tutoring hub that contains all OMs is the way to go though. This dilutes everyone's product and makes managing all the people that contribute/participate more challenging. It works for B101 b/c they have an entire team dedicated to making it run. It is unrealistic to expect 1-2 people (although Snaq is awesome) to manage all the OM tutoring programs. 1-2 people in charge of each permanent metagame's tutoring program is my preference. One of those programs can be dedicated to OMotM so a resource is provided for it. This idea is further enabled by sub-forums for the meta's with permanent ladders.

I've literally had to beg people to post samples in the official thread, they don't seem to be interested in doing a bit of work to actually provide a nice resource for newer players to get into a tier. Sure, submitting a pastebin to that site is easier than writing a description and making it all official looking, but how is a player who is just starting out a meta supposed to know what mon does what, what are things they need to watch out for and how to play with said team in a meta that they don't even know? The desc is what makes them able to use the team properly and learn enough to go out and make their own teams after they've gotten a feel for the meta playing with that team. If you have suggestions on how I can make it easier for you (I've been thinking about removing the teambuilding process part, but its kind of important imo as it gives a feel for how to build for the meta and what things you need to keep in mind when building) while not taking away from the resource, feel free to shoot me a VM. And submit more teams guys :[

I said more on the sample team stuff later. Monotype's sample teams section has really taken off (I have a hard time keeping up with it tbh). We require people to post RMTs in the smogon RMT section and showcase all teams that are posted there on our website. Every month (or 2 weeks, depending on activity) we pick a team to be "Monotype Team of the Month". Also, exceptional teams that really define the metagame are placed into a separate section that provides teams for beginners. I believe this format is successful for a couple reasons:
1) It gives new players a way to get feedback on their teams, while still showcasing it.
2) It gives veteran players a way to showcase teams that were particularly successful. Joining the "Teams for Beginners" section shows you've created something that defines the metagame
3) There is a tangible (albeit minimal) reward for doing it and doing it well.
4) It actively promotes the metagame to the greater smogon community (via the RMT forum), which encourages additional contributors.

Regarding why omotm teams aren't allowed in the official thread, they are useful for the month the om is omotm but after that month, they'd basically just be taking up space. However, having omotm sample teams would be a nice resource, so I propose we make a second sample teams thread for omotm only. Alternatively, if my following suggestion becomes a reality, it would be a general om sample team thread with basically teams for any om accepted (maybe figure out a way to limit random teams for dead OMs, like page1 OMs only), with omotm having a seperate post to seperate them from others. Permaladder teams would go to the sample teams thread on their specific subforums.

Agree completely!

I'm also a supporter of giving the OMs with permaladders a subforum so that they can have resources specifically for them. That makes it easier for a person trying to get into a specific meta to go through the available resources without having to sift through stuff related to metas that don't interest them. A seperate subforum for a meta opens up a large array of possible projects, just look at the kind of stuff present in the OU subforum for examples. I realize that it needs user participation more than anything and a new subforum won't magically make new resources, but it'd be a start. It would have all the available resources and future resources in one place, making it easier for players for said meta to look through and find (project threads would be slower than your average om discussion thread and they easily get lost to the depths of page 2 when new meta threads or a momentarily popular meta like omotm/metas with suspect discussion are getting a bunch of posts) the available things and possibly make a post in one of the threads that interest them. The regular players of the meta would have to step up a lot tho as they'd have to point new users in the right direction, tell them if they're doing anything wrong and lead a lot of meta specific projects. Seperate subforums also open doors for suspect test laddering (like BH, no need for new ladders) with every suspect test bringing in discussion in their individual threads without disrupting general meta discussion and giving people incentive to go out and ladder to qualify for the votes. Every suspect having its own thread present in the subforum would also prevent common "why was this banned" questions in general discussion threads.

As I said above, many of these ideas are enabled by the creation of sub-forums for the permanent ladders. Many OMs have dedicated player bases that exceed those of official tiers, yet we're all cramped into one sub-forum. If the plan is to cultivate existing OMs these issues will only continue to grow. A theme across both these posts is easy access to the relevant information for new players, which sub-forums address. I think most of these metagames have the man power to maintain and moderate a sub-forum.

Lastly, most om ladders are generally dead so, a ladder tour like olt or some other project that gives incentive to ladder could be held to make the ladders more active again.

Some of the ideas that have been tossed around in this PR thread recently could be leveraged here. I've been meaning to talk to TI about implementing them for the Monotype ladder, but haven't had a chance w/ my school schedule rn x_x.

I envision having the ladder reset every 3 months (with the major tier shift), recognizing the user(s) that are at the top of the ladder via ELO at the end of the season, and recognizing the user that accumulates the highest GXE for that period.

 

[Flamedood]

Just chiming in as a regular lurker but not someone who is too active in the OM forums, following up/ agreeing on what some other people have said here, I think having a pinned Aqua thread and having it as the "official OM" platform would be a good start- you could remove most of the "dead" permaladders from the main showdown, and just have say Omotm as an "advertisement" for om in aqua.
I also agree with locking dead meta game threads, at worst it just stops necrobumping, at best it encourages people to work harder and post more on metas they like. Just my two cents

Edit to avoid double posting: is there any reason OM doesn't have a simple questions/ simple answers thread? That's often the first place people visit when they learn a new meta

 

[Uselesscrab]

Edit to avoid double posting: is there any reason OM doesn't have a simple questions/ simple answers thread? That's often the first place people visit when they learn a new meta

For some reason, the rules thread is supposed to serve as one. (Imas and I have both had requests to make one denied in the past. Personally, I think it's not readily apparent where questions are supposed to go.)

 

[imas]

Yeah I originally meant to mention that too in my earlier post, but its very clearly stated that users are supposed to read the rules thread before posting and if users actually did so, they'd know that you can ask questions there. While looking at the om subforum list I could see a new user be confused as to where they should ask a question, but if they read the rules like they're supposed to before they make a post, they'd know what to do. So, I guess this boils down to a problem with the users not reading the rules as always lol.

I was going to suggest that they somehow make it clearer that the rules thread is also the sqsa thread in the thread title, but the title is p big already so that and the reasons above made me reconsider posting it. However, seeing as how it's been brought up by someone else, maybe changing the name to "Rules, Regulations and Simple Questions (Read before posting!)" would be an okay replacement over creating a new thread? Alternatively we could change the rules thread to not include simple questions and create a new thread specifically for it, I don't see a downside to this barring users asking about the rules in the SQSA thread when they're already clearly stated in the Rules thread (basically the help room syndrome heh).

 

[brightobject]

Just take out the regulations part

 

[EV]

So this has basically become a running thread of suggestions and criticism, which is great. I don't mind using this as an avenue for feedback beyond just the initial changes I announced in the OP.

Here's what I'm liking/would like to try:

• Change "Rules & Regulations" to "Rules & SQSA."
• Rotating permanent ladders. Anything less than 5k plays should be on rotation imo.
• Fast-tracking bans (or, "fixing" metagames) when an OM becomes OM/LCotM - I'm not sure what this looks like right now.
• Starting OMGS. The announcement has been stale for months :(
• A new subforum. This has been considered a few times in the past. It would make organization a hell of a lot easier, but I think the idea is backwards. Why make the subforum for permanent OMs only? Instead I think the main OM forum should be for permanent OMs and OM/LCotM while a new subforum would be for "unofficial" OMs, kind of like how Pet Mods is in its own corner. The logistics shouldn't be hard to work out, as it would basically be a mirror of the main forum but with fewer individual resource threads.

I'm hesitant about:

• Designating Aqua as the "official OM server." 1) Its functionality relies on Snaquaza solely to manage the server, so in instances of vacation or whatever, the server is dark. 2) I don't want to siphon off any ladder plays from the main server, mostly because I don't like the idea of fracturing the community, and also because we get usage stats on the main server. However, some designation as the alternative server where many, many non-permanent OMs are playable is feasible.

Please keep the feedback coming!

 

[dsm77773]

Maybe we don't need to push it that far as making Aqua the "official" OM server. Currently, you find 10 or so people in average online on the server. Just by making it more popular we're done imo.

 

[Snaquaza]

I thought someone else was going to make a post, but as they haven't, I'll make some points myself as to why Aqua should have a thread for updates (and as such seems to be official since it would have a thread in the forum)

To address your points, during my last two vacations, I kept Aqua online, although I wasn't there myself obviously, people could still be there. Additionally, I don't think I'll go away until like next summer. It doesn't have to become the main point of where people talk about OMs, but OMs needs a place where they can be played, as otherwise there is no point in OMs at all. Sure, if we could play all on main, it wouldn't be needed, but for OMs to flourish, they need to be playable. You may think they are when Aqua is just there normally, the fact that it doesn't have a way to get more players means that even if it is able to play a format on there, there's no way to play it without other players being there.

I don't think the community will be split, as most players prefer being on the main server, and I think the Aqua server could become an appendix of the normal OM room, where people can go to play certain OMs, but I don't think many users will quit the main server for Aqua, and don't think the community will be split.

The usage stats thing... well most players don't go to Aqua to ladder in AAA, STABmons or Balanced Hackmons, but more to play other metagames not on main. Of course I'll have them playable for if players want to play it, but the fact is that as long as they're playable on main, the usage stats won't be affected much.

Anyway, while you don't have to redirect all OM players to Aqua or anything, having a thread in the subforum and some ways to advertise would be amazing for the many smaller other metagames. It may even attract more users if they can easily get their metagame playable! I'd also be willing to (of course) make Eevee General and The Immortal admins, and also be more strict on staff. Right now, there isn't really a strict policy since most people who visit know each other anyways, but if it gets more visitors, I'd want to get a stricter policy, especially if it's "official" (with this I mean having a thread).

One thing that'd be great though, is having more OM coders. Although we have Pikachuun and Slayer95, they won't be able to code something all the time, so if you can code or want to learn it, contact me (if you can) and Pikachuun (if you want to learn).

The reason I think a thread would be good is because people would be able to request formats to become playable, for example when they've obtained the code of something, but they can also just request one of the hopefully coders of Aqua to code it, and then start a conversation with them. Also, it'd give an easy way of knowing which OMs are playable, what they do and such, and gives us a way to host events and publish other news.

Sorry if this was a bit unorganized.

 

[The Immortal]

I have no problem with a server dedicated to OMs not on main but I don't see that as Aqua right now. Obviously you're not a programmer like Slayer or Joim, and there are OMs on Aqua that don't even work (yet they were OMotM and so have worked on main).

Pandora is an example of a server that would be acceptable (in terms of its formats only; ignore the fact that it's a Spanish server...) because they have an owner that is a programmer (Slayer), and thus will be able to code new OMs and easily update stuff. Every OM on Pandora works afaik, and if anything doesn't then Slayer will fix it in a snap.

I would run server a myself, and believe me I've thought about it more than once, but I don't have the time to take on that responsibility.

So, I'd be happy with an official OMs server, but not an inadequate one.

PS: No disrespect to your capability, the effort is there, but I think even you'll admit you're not a programmer.


EDIT: Whatever Slayer said policy-wise applies too; I was just speaking about the technical side.

 

[Ransei]

I have no problem with a server dedicated to OMs not on main but I don't see that as Aqua right now. Obviously you're not a programmer like Slayer or Joim, and there are OMs on Aqua that don't even work (yet they were OMotM and so have worked on main).

Pandora is an example of a server that would be acceptable (in terms of its formats only; ignore the fact that it's a Spanish server...) because they have an owner that is a programmer (Slayer), and thus will be able to code new OMs and easily update stuff. Every OM on Pandora works afaik, and if anything doesn't then Slayer will fix it in a snap.

I would run server a myself, and believe me I've thought about it more than once, but I don't have the time to take on that responsibility.

So, I'd be happy with an official OMs server, but not an inadequate one.

PS: No disrespect to your capability, the effort is there, but I think even you'll admit you're not a programmer.

We could bring Programmers to Aqua. On Pandora regardless of its popularity, really no one comes there much for the OMs, but rather because it's a great Spanish server with standard tiers. People actually come to Aqua mainly to play OMs. Many of the OM fans look up to Aqua for OMs way more than Pandora, not to mention that Snaquaza would accept any OM to be there. Aqua even has a lot more OMs that are known here with having their own thread while Pandora's is rather more customized with random metagames. Although metagames there like Mix and Mega and Inhertiance weren't working for a bit because the old code crashed, they are also back. I just thought I should mention this even though Pandora has these too. Well anyways, I shared my point on this.

 

[Slayer95]

On the other side of the story, while Pandora actually started as a place where I could implement whatever format I wanted,
I have recently cut down on my OM involvement and Pandora's OM freshness.

Mainly, I see the formats' list clutter as an unadmissible issue (you can see this both in Aqua and Pandora),
which I have been trying to fight by removing the least-common formats. While I have some thoughts about general improvements to the formats' list,
they aren't complete, and think of implementing them (client-side!!).
I am open to strengthening Pandora's position OM-wise after we get those improvements
(for starters, a Search bar and easy Generation navigation), but at that point
we might want to reconsider the amount of Other Metas the Main server is willing to host.

Now, in a less personal topic. I'd be fine with supporting an OM server. However,
such a server -as TI said- needs to be adequate.
I actually feel that Snaquaza and other contributors are capable enough technically.
However, the server needs to also be adequate management-wise;
both regarding its relations to Other Metagames (TM), and to Smogon as a whole.

As such, the very minimal requirements for it, as I see it, would be
1) One or more members of the Upper Staff should also belong to Smogon University Upper Staff.
2) Only host OMs already approved by the OM staff, or otherwise authorized to have a prototype implementation by the OM staff (*)

(*) This last bit isn't a thing currently, but it can be made to exist. Neither of the servers being discussed passes this requirement (and I don't want mine to pass it), hosting formats such as "Permanent Rain" (Aqua) or "Team Exchange" (Pandora).

 

[Flamedood]

So a recurring theme I've been noticing keeps popping up is the problem of dead OMs on Showdown and possibly cycling the permaladders on Showdown. I was reading through Zangooser 's post in the interview thread where he noted that in one month LCUU had only had 14 battles and BWRU had only had 1 battle, and I had an idea (that incorporates Aqua)- what if we had say, 3-5 perma ladders on Showdown, and the rest on Aqua, and at the end of every month/ 2 months we had a process of relegation and promotion- the top 2 most played metas on Aqua get a perma ladder on Showdown, and the two least popular metas on Showdown get removed. This way the metas with the highest player base always have perma ladders on Showdown, but as new metas become popular or an OM starts to die out, it can be replaced objectively.
I imagine this process would be separate from OMotM as that serves as an invaluable tool to introduce the mass public to new metas.
In this way, you could remove a lot of the clutter on Showdown, streamlining the sim, and Aqua could become the "unofficial, official" OM sim. The raw data would show what players want to play, and that way the metas that deserve permanent ladders get them. It also helps determine the difference between a meta that is simply the flavor of the month, and a meta that has real staying power and lasting popularity. Lastly it would also serve as a motivator for people to jump onto Aqua and play the ladders that they are interested in.

Anyway I'm sure you guys could add to this and make it better/ pull it apart and point out the reasons it wouldn't work, but just a suggestion :)

 

[Rumplestiltskin]

So a recurring theme I've been noticing keeps popping up is the problem of dead OMs on Showdown and possibly cycling the permaladders on Showdown. I was reading through Zangooser 's post in the interview thread where he noted that in one month LCUU had only had 14 battles and BWRU had only had 1 battle, and I had an idea (that incorporates Aqua)- what if we had say, 3-5 perma ladders on Showdown, and the rest on Aqua, and at the end of every month/ 2 months we had a process of relegation and promotion- the top 2 most played metas on Aqua get a perma ladder on Showdown, and the two least popular metas on Showdown get removed. This way the metas with the highest player base always have perma ladders on Showdown, but as new metas become popular or an OM starts to die out, it can be replaced objectively.
I imagine this process would be separate from OMotM as that serves as an invaluable tool to introduce the mass public to new metas.
In this way, you could remove a lot of the clutter on Showdown, streamlining the sim, and Aqua could become the "unofficial, official" OM sim. The raw data would show what players want to play, and that way the metas that deserve permanent ladders get them. It also helps determine the difference between a meta that is simply the flavor of the month, and a meta that has real staying power and lasting popularity. Lastly it would also serve as a motivator for people to jump onto Aqua and play the ladders that they are interested in.

Anyway I'm sure you guys could add to this and make it better/ pull it apart and point out the reasons it wouldn't work, but just a suggestion :)

There are way too few visitors and players on Aqua currently for it to give a fair representation of what the people want to play. And I'm really doubtful if there will be active enough ladders anywhere else than on the main server.
Also if the ladders get removed after 1-2 months, they're not really "perma ladders" anymore are they? But I get your point.

 

[Flamedood]

There are way too few visitors and players on Aqua currently for it to give a fair representation of what the people want to play. And I'm really doubtful if there will be active enough ladders anywhere else than on the main server.
Also if the ladders get removed after 1-2 months, they're not really "perma ladders" anymore are they? But I get your point.

If there were no ladders on Aqua that outplayed the "least popular" metas on Showdown, then there would be no change for that month/quarter/whatever time period is deemed appropriate- at least this way it is only the most popular metas that have (semi)permanent ladders on the main server. And the hope is that with all the excess culled from Showdown and peoples battles actually mattering, it would encourage people to move towards Aqua and play the ladders they want permanent. To implement this idea I imagine you'd need links in the OM room intro on showdown, an Aqua thread on smogon, basically a lot of the other ideas that people have suggested to improve the OM experience in this thread.

 

[The Immortal]

Taking everyones thoughts into consideration, as well the direction of OMs, this is what I envision for the ladders:

The most popular ones, which will be permanent: BH, Mono, 1v1, AG

Then we have rotation. The STABmons and Inverse Battle ladders are both highly inactive/unpopular and should be removed. AAA is 4 to 5 times more active every month. The second, based on OMotM activity and the concept, Sketchmons. It also pairs well with AAA, one is any Ability and the other is any Move. I predict it will have the same amount of ladder activity as AAA does. Third, Tier Shift. It does have as low activity as STABmons but the major plus point here is that it is based on Smogon's official tiers, and will allow standard players to easily jump in. Rotation: AAA, Sketch, TS

We'll off course have the OMotM as well.

 

[skies]

I don't agree with removing AAA/STABmons/BH for the time being. It lessens the capability for OM C&C to function and I am not on board with rotating the metagames over there. If anything, don't remove STABmons. Not really caring about the other ones, but I do like the ones that are permanent now.

EDIT: I don't want OM C&C to rotate either, but that's a discussion for another time although I don't think that discussion has to be had.

Just my input.

 

[skies]

The Immortal Can we please keep BH/STABmons/AAA as permanent solely for the reason of OM C&C?

Sorry for double posting, I wanted to tag you but forgot to.

 

[Whydon]

The Immortal Can we please keep BH/STABmons/AAA as permanent solely for the reason of OM C&C?

Sorry for double posting, I wanted to tag you but forgot to.

I mean, sure it would be difficult to handle OM C&C, but isn't it better to look at the big picture? Instead of saying "we shouldn't remove these OMs because it'll hurt this project", I think it's better to say "this OM is unpopular and inactive, maybe it would be best to remove it."

Metas like Averagemons and Sketchmons are unique and cool concepts that were fairly popular during their reign as OMotM. I'm not usually in the Other Metagames room but I sometimes see Avergemons tourneys being hosted. Would they be popular? Not sure. But I think if an other metagame should have a ladder, it should be one that is unique and popular, as well as metas that would be fairly active. It doesn't make sense to give OMs that are deemed unpopular and inactive their own ladder.

 

[Josh]

I mean, sure it would be difficult to handle OM C&C, but isn't it better to look at the big picture? Instead of saying "we shouldn't remove these OMs because it'll hurt this project", I think it's better to say "this OM is unpopular and inactive, maybe it would be best to remove it."

Metas like Averagemons and Sketchmons are unique and cool concepts that were fairly popular during their reign as OMotM. I'm not usually in the Other Metagames room but I sometimes see Avergemons tourneys being hosted. Would they be popular? Not sure. But I think if an other metagame should have a ladder, it should be one that is unique and popular, as well as metas that would be fairly active. It doesn't make sense to give OMs that are deemed unpopular and inactive their own ladder.

The thing is, AAA and STABmons aren't unpopular. The ladders are somewhat dead, so removing them would be OK I guess, but I'd hope they would at least stay as a challengeable format. Lots of people still do play them via challenges and tours, just not ladder.

Inverse, nobody plays. Who cares lol.

Sketchmons and Inheritance being in rotation as a "permaladder" would be cool. So, I'm suggesting Sketchmons/AAA/TS/STABmons/Inheritance being the rotation. Alternatively leave AAA and STABmons as challengeable but at least leave them on the server please.

 

[EV]

unfixable BH would not be leaving:

The most popular ones, which will be permanent: BH, Mono, 1v1, AG.

 

[Whydon]

The thing is, AAA and STABmons aren't unpopular. The ladders are somewhat dead, so removing them would be OK I guess, but I'd hope they would at least stay as a challengeable format. Lots of people still do play them via challenges and tours, just not ladder.

Inverse, nobody plays. Who cares lol.

Sketchmons and Inheritance being in rotation as a "permaladder" would be cool. So, I'm suggesting Sketchmons/AAA/TS/STABmons/Inheritance being the rotation. Alternatively leave AAA and STABmons as challengeable but at least leave them on the server please.

I was talking about STABmons and Inverse Battle, haha. AAA is sometimes active during the month. I was mostly going off of what TI said about the OMs.

I remember asking the OM leaders about the possibility of an Inheritance ladder on the server (I wasn't asking for one, just asking if it would ever be a thing). I think Eevee General said something about it being a bit similar to BH.

 

[EV]

I wouldn't want Inheritance as a ladder while BH has one similar to why I wouldn't want STABmons and Sketchmons on at the same time either.

 

[skies]

I mean, sure it would be difficult to handle OM C&C, but isn't it better to look at the big picture? Instead of saying "we shouldn't remove these OMs because it'll hurt this project", I think it's better to say "this OM is unpopular and inactive, maybe it would be best to remove it."

Metas like Averagemons and Sketchmons are unique and cool concepts that were fairly popular during their reign as OMotM. I'm not usually in the Other Metagames room but I sometimes see Avergemons tourneys being hosted. Would they be popular? Not sure. But I think if an other metagame should have a ladder, it should be one that is unique and popular, as well as metas that would be fairly active. It doesn't make sense to give OMs that are deemed unpopular and inactive their own ladder.

That's not the point. It doesn't matter if they are unpopular or inactive, which neither is. It could be argued the STABmons ladder is inactive, but it is definitely not unpopular. In order for OM C&C to thrive, it needs the ladders.

 

[Whydon]

That's not the point. It doesn't matter if they are unpopular or inactive, which neither is. It could be argued the STABmons ladder is inactive, but it is definitely not unpopular. In order for OM C&C to thrive, it needs the ladders.

I was mostly going off of what TI said. But I think it does matter if a metagame is unpopular and inactive. If a metagame is unpopular and inactive, then why have it? For the benefit of a single project?

 

[MZ]

This also could have a negative impact on OM grand slam. Now I have no idea what tiers are in it, but OMPL had AAA/TS/STABmons/BH/Mono I think? Not really sure but those are definitely major representative metas. Maybe Sketchmons is too and deserves a slot, but removing any one of those unless it's really clear that they don't have the activity to belong seems like it could be an issue. Plus keeping AG isn't like it's taking up a slot for OMs for the most part when it's listed alongside the official tiers. So not counting AG that's like 7 plus OMotM and Leader's choice, which seems fine
edit: since I didn't state it really obviously, removing a ladder of a tier that's gonna be in OM GS would suck, even if it's rotating, and I can't imagine 1v1 is gonna be one of the metas so that seems pretty likely with TI's plan