Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer: Monotype Edition

Will type-only bans ever be a thing again? Like Mega-Medicham being banned on Psychic but not Fighting. I remember reading a while back that there were some people for it, but I don't remember the reasons exactly for or against the policy.
 
Will type-only bans ever be a thing again? Like Mega-Medicham being banned on Psychic but not Fighting. I remember reading a while back that there were some people for it, but I don't remember the reasons exactly for or against the policy.
This is the most recent discussion of type bans, which might be what you're talking about? There was a decent amount of discussion from both sides here, so it's probably a good place to start if you want to see the reasons for or against type bans. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-monotype-discussion.3544507/page-67#post-6911700

While of course there's no way to know for a fact that type bans will never ever be a thing again, I wouldn't hold my breath. It's against our current tiering philosophy, so unless there is a huge revamp of both our leadership and our philosophy, it's probably not going to happen. I can say with certainty that, for the Mega Medicham suspect, a type ban is definitely not in the realm of possibility.

If you want to discuss type bans in more detail, that would probably be beyond the scope of this thread (can't really give a simple answer!). Feel free to PM me, though, if you see me on Showdown (username: Eien) and I'd be happy to talk about it more with you.
 

Moosical

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Vid

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Is it possible to play monotype random battles without special access (tournaments, etc.)
No, Monotype random battles can only be played in tournaments or by challenge.
 

Vid

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Why haven't any of y'all applied to have this format on B101?
Only officials tiers are allowed in B101, but there are plans to make a Monotype tutoring program after MPL III in the Monotype subforum.
 
Is Trick Room Steel viable? I was looking at the Trick Room Magearna set and contemplating this, and I figured that it might work out considering that Steel is bulky enough that if you assume you're slower than everything else, it still works out.

So, I thought to myself, it couldn't hurt to try Trick Room Steel with Magearna and Jirachi as setters, and probably min speed Bisharp, Doublade, who knows. My guess is that it would be viable considering Steel's bulk even with speed-invested EVs, so without them, who knows what could happen; plus, STAB Gyro Ball.

But, I wasn't sure if anyone has tried it or faced it before, so... what do you guys think?
 

mushamu

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Is Trick Room Steel viable? I was looking at the Trick Room Magearna set and contemplating this, and I figured that it might work out considering that Steel is bulky enough that if you assume you're slower than everything else, it still works out.

So, I thought to myself, it couldn't hurt to try Trick Room Steel with Magearna and Jirachi as setters, and probably min speed Bisharp, Doublade, who knows. My guess is that it would be viable considering Steel's bulk even with speed-invested EVs, so without them, who knows what could happen; plus, STAB Gyro Ball.

But, I wasn't sure if anyone has tried it or faced it before, so... what do you guys think?
Ehh seems pretty solid. Use choice handed ferrothorn lol

I've got my own question: Why did Dhelmise drop to C on Ghost?
 
Is Trick Room Steel viable? I was looking at the Trick Room Magearna set and contemplating this, and I figured that it might work out considering that Steel is bulky enough that if you assume you're slower than everything else, it still works out.

So, I thought to myself, it couldn't hurt to try Trick Room Steel with Magearna and Jirachi as setters, and probably min speed Bisharp, Doublade, who knows. My guess is that it would be viable considering Steel's bulk even with speed-invested EVs, so without them, who knows what could happen; plus, STAB Gyro Ball.

But, I wasn't sure if anyone has tried it or faced it before, so... what do you guys think?
As far as I know, TR steel was much better early last gen when mega mawile was a thing. As of now, I haven't tried it but it sounds pretty bad on paper.
That said, OTR magearna is a threat:
Magearna @ Fairium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 236 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Fleur Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Aura Sphere

Ehh seems pretty solid. Use choice handed ferrothorn lol

I've got my own question: Why did Dhelmise drop to C on Ghost?
This is not the place to ask that, PM Vid or Eien (or zarif but he's a monkey) on PS or here.
 
Is Trick Room Steel viable? I was looking at the Trick Room Magearna set and contemplating this, and I figured that it might work out considering that Steel is bulky enough that if you assume you're slower than everything else, it still works out.

So, I thought to myself, it couldn't hurt to try Trick Room Steel with Magearna and Jirachi as setters, and probably min speed Bisharp, Doublade, who knows. My guess is that it would be viable considering Steel's bulk even with speed-invested EVs, so without them, who knows what could happen; plus, STAB Gyro Ball.

But, I wasn't sure if anyone has tried it or faced it before, so... what do you guys think?
No. It's a gimmick I've personally played a lot with for fun, but it, like most other Trick Room teams in Monotype, fails to be better than its alternatives. The opportunity cost of sacrificing teamslots and sets to accommodate such a difficult-to-pull-off strategy that isn't even particularly effective just doesn't work. There just doesn't seem to be much of a reason to use it over a more standard hyper offense team.

However, if you seriously want to use it, then here's a general starter template you can build off and experiment with:

Entry Hazards (Suicide Lead Skarmory)
Trick Room Setter (Jirachi, Bronzong)
Sweeper (Magearna)
Wallbreaker (Choice Specs Heatran)
Speed Control (Choice Scarf Excadrill)
Utility (Celesteela, Mega Scizor, Bisharp)

theuntalented oops sorry missed your question. Dhelmise simply doesn't compete with other B ranks. Golurk opens up SD Alolan Marowak, Hoopa is perhaps the best wallbreaker, Sableye is the best stallbreaker, Chandelure is a consistent Choice Scarf user, of which Ghost has few, and Doublade is a nice physical sweeper. Dhelmise fits much better in with the more niche picks of Cofagrigrus, which only works on TR, Decidueye, which has a rare use of Defog, and Froslass, which can use Spikes.
 
Hello good people. I just have a question for monotype Water. I am one of the gym leader tryouts in some facebook page, and i would like any suggestions on building a viable Singles AND a Doubles team. Enough to pose a real challenge, not necessarily to like focus on beating every challenger XD Also some of us gym tryouts do battle each other a lot for fun and the assigned leaders use their gym team to test out tryouts :)

Here are my BR Waters:
-Pelipper
-Greninja
-Ash Greninja
-Mantine
-Slowbro
-Wishiwashi
-Tapu Fini
-Swampert
-Milotic
-Rotom-Wash
-Toxapex
-Suicune
-Mega Sharpedo
-Gastrodon
-Sap Sipper Azumarill
-Pyukumuku
-Golisopod
-Araquanid
-Barbaracle
-Volt Absorb Lanturn
-Empoleon ((Non-Stealth Rock))

Any help would be appreciated, thank you in advance :)
 
Hello good people. I just have a question for monotype Water. I am one of the gym leader tryouts in some facebook page, and i would like any suggestions on building a viable Singles AND a Doubles team. Enough to pose a real challenge, not necessarily to like focus on beating every challenger XD Also some of us gym tryouts do battle each other a lot for fun and the assigned leaders use their gym team to test out tryouts :)

Here are my BR Waters:
-Pelipper
-Greninja
-Ash Greninja
-Mantine
-Slowbro
-Wishiwashi
-Tapu Fini
-Swampert
-Milotic
-Rotom-Wash
-Toxapex
-Suicune
-Mega Sharpedo
-Gastrodon
-Sap Sipper Azumarill
-Pyukumuku
-Golisopod
-Araquanid
-Barbaracle
-Volt Absorb Lanturn
-Empoleon ((Non-Stealth Rock))

Any help would be appreciated, thank you in advance :)
You'll want to check out our Viability Rankings for help in building your Singles Water team. I'd also note that Ash-Greninja is banned from Monotype and may not be used. If you want a somewhat workable team, you could try something like: Greninja / Swampert / Toxapex / Tapu Fini / Mega Sharpedo / Suicune. You lack some critical Pokemon options that would make it much better, though, such as Keldeo and Gyarados.

With regards to a Monotype Doubles team, you should check out our OM Megathread, which includes a Water sample team. While it does have Pokemon you don't, you can use some substitutions to make it work anyway.
 
You'll want to check out our Viability Rankings for help in building your Singles Water team. I'd also note that Ash-Greninja is banned from Monotype and may not be used. If you want a somewhat workable team, you could try something like: Greninja / Swampert / Toxapex / Tapu Fini / Mega Sharpedo / Suicune. You lack some critical Pokemon options that would make it much better, though, such as Keldeo and Gyarados.
Oh, that's almost similar to one of my team drafts :)

Well, i do have a Gyarados but it still needs some more work, and my Keldeo isn't BR XD

With regards to a Monotype Doubles team, you should check out our OM Megathread, which includes a Water sample team. While it does have Pokemon you don't, you can use some substitutions to make it work anyway.
Will do. Thank you for your help! ^_^
 
Is there any type that is unviable/heavily unfavored in the format? I want to get into this with at least some idea on what to build my first team around :x
 

Vid

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Is there any type that is unviable/heavily unfavored in the format? I want to get into this with at least some idea on what to build my first team around :x
Ice and Rock are extremely hard for new players to pick up. I would say Fairy and Steel are easiest to pickup because of their defined team structure.
 
Is there any type that is unviable/heavily unfavored in the format? I want to get into this with at least some idea on what to build my first team around :x
ice rock and ghost are all quite bad, i would put fighting close to that too but galladite just got announced and that will heavily shake things up. best place to start is balance flying or psychic, or fairy
 
Ice and Rock are extremely hard for new players to pick up. I would say Fairy and Steel are easiest to pickup because of their defined team structure.
ice rock and ghost are all quite bad, i would put fighting close to that too but galladite just got announced and that will heavily shake things up. best place to start is balance flying or psychic, or fairy
Thanks a lot!
 
Hey guys I was wondering why some types are considered "bad" and can't be used in arguments that deal with bans. I've heard the argument that a type would still be bad even if [insert mon here] is banned but aren't we supposed to judge the meta as it exists now and not making theories about the future?
 
Hey guys I was wondering why some types are considered "bad" and can't be used in arguments that deal with bans. I've heard the argument that a type would still be bad even if [insert mon here] is banned but aren't we supposed to judge the meta as it exists now and not making theories about the future?
Moved this post. That thread's more metagame discussion and this is more of a SQSA anyway.

"X type that Y Pokemon beats is bad, therefore Y isn't banworthy" very well may be theorymonning and not a legitimate argument if it's not supported properly. However, when it's properly supported, it's very much acceptable if it's actually true. "Bad" types do have a place in the tiering discussion, so it's not that they can't be used. It is very important to make sure that the type in question isn't so bad that it's almost irrelevant to the topic, though.

One use of this argument would be if the ban argument appeals to "2. Ban elements of the metagame that are broken, uncompetitive, or unhealthy." and claims that Y is broken because it beats X. That means that the Pokemon in question is too good in comparison to the rest of the metagame. If you say Y beats X, but 90% of the metagame also easily beats X, then Y beating X is not proof that it's too good in comparison to the rest of the metagame. Its performance is just as good, which isn't enough.

If the claim is that Y is banworthy because it beats A, B, and C types, then we want to consider whether this would add or subtract from the metagame. The logic is laid out here:
Scizor destroys Ice, Rock, and Fairy. However, were it banned, Ice would still be as bad as it currently is, as would Rock. Scizor is great at exploiting the weaknesses of those teams (poor defensive typings, weak to common priority). Fairy struggles because it lacks Steel resistances that are able to hit Scizor for significant damage. These are flaws of those teams, not Scizor. Other types/'mons exploit these same weaknesses when facing Ice, Rock and Fairy. Additionally, the 15 other types have reliable methods to check Scizor.

Overall, it isn't that Scizor is too strong for the metagame (broken) or undesirable to the point it inhibits skillful play (unhealthy); instead, 3 types are ill-equipped to handle Scizor in addition to many other aspects of the metagame. By banning it we would lose more than we gain.

In comparison, let's look at Talonflame. Talonflame destroyed Grass, Bug, and Fighting. While Grass doesn't hit particularly high usage, it was commonly asserted that neither Bug nor Fighting would do well before Talonflame was banned. After removing this threat, two whole types became viable, as well as easing the pressure on a struggling type.

Talonflame beat these types by exploiting their weakness to Flying-type attacks (like Scizor's Bullet Punch and Ice/Rock/Fairy). However, it did this to most types because it had a small pool of Pokemon (even by OU standards) that reliably checked/countered it. In Monotype, this was exacerbated. Spamming priority Brave Bird was a reliable strategy to beat most teams that didn't naturally resist it (Electric, Rock, Steel). By banning it we eased pressure on team-building for 15 types and promoted the usage of 2-3 types, which created a more diverse metagame. We gained far more than we lost.
If types A, B, or C are bad, then it's only going to subtract from the metagame if we ban a so-called problem. Therefore, it is necessary to take into account whether the types are of value or not specifically for this argument.

As another example, if by banning Mega Sableye in ORAS we nerfed Ghost, that would not be considered a net loss to the metagame. The loss of Mega Sableye on Dark benefited the metagame as a whole, while nerfing a 0.7% usage type is almost not even a loss to begin with. As a result, worse types just simply matter less to the metagame because they are less relevant to the metagame. The argument for banning Mega Sableye did include types like Electric, Poison, and Grass, which are all "bad" types in ORAS. As you can see, this issue is very specific to individual discussions and just saying "N type is bad" is not necessarily valuable or not valuable to any one tiering discussion.
 

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