CAP 2 Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Art Thread

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As for the visual, I agree it's not squarely in the pokemon mold. I struggled a lot with this when working up the sketches. I have a bunch of reasoning behind the visual choices I made. If I post it all here, it will be yet another tl;dr wall of text. I already did one of those with the inspiration and backstory. I think people are probably sick of all that minutae from me. If this design gets any further in the creation process, I'll be happy to discuss changes in great detail.
I've always been fascinated by explanations as much as actions. Walls of text are welcome, as long as they are well-written and concise. Yours seem to be, so go nuts! (P.S. I don't know a word of Japanese, actually).


I drafted a version of that ever-so-popular 'tag' concept. I'll be back with a colour version after work, but initial reactions are welcome.

 
I drafted a version of that card that ever-so-popular 'tag' concept. I'll be back with a colour version after work, but initial reactions are welcome.

thing
Based on this design, I'd say any move involving punching is out, which is too bad. However, it's nice to see something with legs. This guy just screams Intimidate.
 
not a bad concept of the tag design and ya that poke does scream intimidate. Now that I think about it the Banette evo would strange for the tag idea. Maybe we should have a pre-evo for this pokemon? The viking concept also looks cool and a pre-evo would be neat for that too. Andersatan's could be a pre-evo to KOA's new concept
 
then again...minus the fact that no actual pokemon ever really uses a weapon (axes, guns, swords, *we don't want to be ruining the minds of the kids do we?* XD -darn political correctness-) because of the fact pokemon is E rated and..well meant for children ofcourse.
 
I don't mean to be anal, but I would just like to point out that the character on tag is technically gibberish/doesn't look like any real Chinese/Japanese character I know. If anything, it looks somewhat like the character for "love."

Great design, though. I like the eyes on its sleeves, and overall it looks like a Pokemon. ^_^
 
I've always been fascinated by explanations as much as actions. Walls of text are welcome, as long as they are well-written and concise. Yours seem to be, so go nuts! (P.S. I don't know a word of Japanese, actually).


I drafted a version of that ever-so-popular 'tag' concept. I'll be back with a colour version after work, but initial reactions are welcome.
Agreeing with like of the WoT. It definitely makes me more likely to select your art too (lol Doug needing help with getting selected).

About your picture, I love the eye/robe concept. Of course, it does seem very much like a vulture. In fact, it looks like a vulture with a bucket on its head. Maybe give it 3 claws on each side instead of one? It will look less bird like then.
 
This is the symbol you want to use on the next tag, I woulda been cooler to Microsoft paint it and the open booklet of Okami...but I'm lazy so I took the darkness symbol from a yu-gi-oh card that is the same symbol as in Okami and the exact symbol I painted Okami's fu when she was on the sneaking mission XD

 
i say... that picture screams a special intimidate. i know we invented a new ability last time, but this could make this guy a great tank. if we give him high hp and defense we could leave his SPdef low so that he could be countered on a switch instead of just being broken in all around stats.

what could special intimidate be called? something involving ghost's and stress... like demon (in japanese) stress or something. in america it could be called Fiend Stress!
 

KoA

Sorry, I thought anteaters were real
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I felt compelled to say something. I'm thinking many of you misconstrued my message here:

Oh wow, guess my idea was terrible then considering how it caused a huge armor debate. :x
to imply that I was overreacting to what you guys were saying and as an instance, "not take criticism well".

I just wanna clear it up and say that I said that when people started going off course about the concepts of dead fighters, armors, and steel typings and blabbity bla. I felt that my piece mighta been the catalyst for the conversation that ensued so therefore I remarked that maybe my latest work didn't take the idea in the direction we wanted.

I'm only clearing this up because maybe people mistook that message as a hint that I couldn't take critique. This is NEVER the case. I always am open to any and all suggestions and criticism. The harsher the better in my opinion. I'll even sit back if someone exclaims it sucks terribly and only really ask what I can do to fix it.



Anyway, to get back to the topic at hand, I recently got random inspiration so a new design should be up tomorrow or the next day. ;)
 
Special Intimidate?! SOUNDS GOOD!!! but not for ghosts only - .-

i say... that picture screams a special intimidate. i know we invented a new ability last time, but this could make this guy a great tank. if we give him high hp and defense we could leave his SPdef low so that he could be countered on a switch instead of just being broken in all around stats.

what could special intimidate be called? something involving ghost's and stress... like demon (in japanese) stress or something. in america it could be called Fiend Stress!
Ideas for a name of Special Intimidate "Demoralize", "Soul Steal", "Mood Change". I like Demoralize actually because if this ability was a move not only limited to ghost types it should be a move that doesn't specifically sound ghostly but uni-type.
Here's the definition for Demoralize:
to deprive (a person or persons) of spirit, courage, discipline, etc.; destroy the morale of: The continuous barrage demoralized the infantry.
^I think this name for the ability would take the cake, if you used that ability
 
I drafted a version of that ever-so-popular 'tag' concept. I'll be back with a colour version after work, but initial reactions are welcome.

<pwnsauce>
I love this thing. Just up the number of fingers to three like suggested and it would be perfect.

This doesn't necessarily rule-out punching moves either. Hitmonlee has tiny little three-finger hands but still learns Mach Punch.

I like Demoralize for the special intimidate, though I was thinking Insomnia would be a good ability (zombies do not sleep).
 
well there ya go two great abilities I guess Hyra will have to poll this one to see which gets to be the one. I personally think Insomnia is better now because it means this pokemon completely ruins Breloom. What do you think? AND what if it could learn Zen Headbutt? then you have a dead breloom... unless it's behind a sub i guess
 

KoA

Sorry, I thought anteaters were real
is an Artist
I really don't think we should push it with another new ability. :(
 
KOA your idea pokemon's base stats didn't show that the poke could take a special hit so I guess Demoralize would be a nice ability, then again Insomnia ruins sleepers which raises this pokes cool ness......you know funny part is these pokes aren't ever going to be used.....unless we fix em on shoddy. Shoddy would be a nice place to see how popular these created pokes are too I mean how hard is it to put on one more pokemon?
 
Now that the speed of the pokemon has been decided, I'll let my ghost fencer idea die :-(

I'm liking the following designs based on the poll:




And...
 

KoA

Sorry, I thought anteaters were real
is an Artist
We kinda pressed the button with a new ability last poll. I'm not gonna stop you from posting suggestions, by all means, I'm just saying it might not be accepted for a new ability.
 

DougJustDoug

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OK, since a few people said they don't mind long walls of text, I will happily oblige with some reasoning and other obscure details about my Fighting Spirit design. So here goes...

I really wanted to get away from the human form. But, when dealing with ghosts, I found it almost impossible to avoid. Yes, there are things like Spiritomb, Duskull, and Haunter. But, most concepts of "dead", really mean "dead human". When I decided to go with a Tribal/Djinni theme, I really could not conceive anything non-humanoid.

OK, humanoid is one thing. But, all those muscles look exceptionally human, right? Is that really necessary? Not really. My primary desire was to give it big fists. This is a pretty common theme, in order to connote "fighting". But my first sketches had several problems.

It's funny TaB mentioned Popeye, because many of my early sketches had a much less muscular torso and upper arms. So the torso and arms were kind of skinny with big powerful forearms and fists. Unfortunately, the big forearms made all the sketches look like Popeye. I never thought about the brow resembling Popeye, but now that TaB mentioned it, I see the resemblance.

When I went the other direction and tried to give it a rounded non-muscular torso and arms, it ended up looking like a Dusknoir ripoff. Particularly, with the whole "no legs" thing.

I couldn't get something I liked sufficiently, without trashing the base concept. So, I added a bunch of musculature to the form. Even though this is human-looking, I have a couple of reasons I believe it can still work:

1) Machamp has clearly human bodybuilder musculature, so it's not unprecedented.

2) Machamp has four arms and a frog-face to make it "non-human". This has no legs, huge forearms, and no face to make it non-human.

3) IMO, the biggest problem with human-looking pokemon, is that it is hard to believe they will follow a human trainer. But, by making this a faceless fighting drone, it's easy to imagine it doing battle for a trainer. By giving it a Djinni-like backstory and visual look, it makes it even easier to imagine it as a creature that will do a human's bidding. What's more common with genies, than the concept of a human "master", right?

4) This is the design artwork. The end result will be a game sprite. The sprite will surely look more pokemon-ish than the design artwork. Look at the Syclant art and sprite to see what I mean.


A bit on my color choices -- I like the off-white skin color, because it seems "ghosty", but other colors could work well. I used the red for his tats, because red feels like "fighting" to me. Maybe I'm just so used to the red label background on the ingame "Fight" icon for move and pokemon type. The gold is clearly for a ceremonial feel. It adds impact to the pokemon. I'm open to suggestions on colors.

Here's some more background on the tattoos. In some earlier designs, I was thinking of a training-obsessed pokemon that was really dark and macabre. I imagined it having a bunch of self-inflicted scars from punishing itself for battle losses. Pretty twisted, right? Some of the drawings were fairly cool-looking. Ultimately, I decided self-mutilation was just too grisly for pokemon and I scrapped the idea. But, I kept looking at the drawings of this creature with scars all over its back. I realized the scars could be converted into a cool cross-hatched tribal tattoo pattern. That's what made it to the final product. IMO, the tats on this guy are the real differentiator. They were a pain in the ass to get right, but I think they are worth it. Now you know how they came about. Weird, huh?

I have some loose concepts about the golden bands being magical and in some way related to the Fighting Spirit's ability to cross into this world. I'd also like the number of bands to mean something. Age? Training level, like martial arts belts? I'd love some creative suggestions.

I'll end this with a tidbit about the featureless face. As I already mentioned, I wanted to manipulate the face to take away its human-ness. That got me thinking: When fighting, aren't facial features a big liability? Black eyes, broken noses, busted lips... Wouldn't it be better if fighters had no face at all? Of course then they would have no senses, so that would suck. But, a Sixth Sense would take care of that. So, I erased all the facial features and loved the look. I've even taken the concept a little further. I imagine that young Fighting Spirits are actually born with full faces. But, as they train and gain fighting prowess, they rely more and more on their sixth sense and the normal sense organs fade away. Eventually, when fully evolved, they have no face at all and rely exclusively on their sixth sense.

There's everything I can think of at the moment. I hope this has helped some of you understand more about my design. If anyone has additional interpretation, I'm interested to hear it.
 
Updated Tag-Ghost/Fighting type: I've coloured him in - see below.




Some background/conceptualisation for my designs so far:



The Sparring Pokemon

These Pokemon begin life with a smooth, orb-like body that gradually swells and becomes lumpy due to constant sparring. These guys live in large communities and hunt together, eat rodenting Pokemon such as Bidoof and Rattata. They have very poor eyesight and they use the wispy, cloud-like substance that constitutes their lower bodies both to move and as a sensory organ - ie, they feel with it. They have expert aim, and they are surprisingly nimble given their appearance (although by no means are they fast).

  • I had the idea for this one while brainstorming about the 'basics' of fighting It struck me that there were too many ornate, complex martial arts that would be very hard to express. I wanted a concept that stripped things back a lot, and I wanted it to be 'pink and fluffy' because I'd just said I didn't like such Pokemon. Hence they are just basic and stripped back, with just enough Ghost-type, and just enough Fighting.

The Fencing Pokemon

The first image is a (left-handed) pre-evo, the second is the final evolution. These Pokemon are known to pride themselves on their honourable battling skills, they will never hit a downed opponent until it is back on its feet. They were once found in the wild but were hunted near to extinction for their ornate skulls and arms, nowadays they are almost exclusively trainer-raised. The problem is, obviously, that this Pokemon would need to be fast so, as Dragontamer said, it's not really viable anymore.
  • "My primary idea is again, a ghost fencer. I particularly am interested in a single blade wielded with a single hand, like a rapier or saber. I have a feeling that the dual weapon style of rapier+dagger would be more popular however, and would also recommend that style. I've got a little drawing of pretty much Casper the friendly ghost wearing a Top Hat weilding a Rapier (Right hand) and a dagger (left hand) and a bow-tie, with his face replaced with a Jack-o-Lanturn. It actually looks like a bit like a pokemon :-p But its still a bit too "human". Sorry I can't scan it online... I don't have access to a scanner." - Dragontamer, page 1

The Nunchuck Pokemon

Fast and cruel, this Pokemon's arms resemble nunchucks. They dwell in caves, and have asmall soldier-like pre-evo. I haven't thought too much more about this guy's background, to be honest. I know his face must put some people off, but I think a Ghost/Fighting type has the right to be butt-ugly.
  • Weird though it may sound, I just felt like Pokemon lacked nunchucks.

The Kana Pokemon

These Pokemon are kicking and slashing monsters, not particularly fast, but very intimidating (demoralising? :P) and very powerful. They can also use whipping attacks with the tail that extends from the back of their head.
  • The idea is that the tag on his "forehead" morphs to display kana according to his state of mind. I have put the word forehead in inverted commas because I am tempted to say the eye symbols on his arms are actual eyes. It would be original, and it would be suitably ghostly. I think a single claw on each arm is a particularly creepy concept, it means his hands are hook-like - he can still use punches, it's just that his "fists" are small. I'll draw a detail of his hands soon.
 
Here's his latest version. Added in a scarf because it suited him better and removed his inner eyes.

It's truly a better ghostly marionette now. I also added some dynamic poses showing how he can defend and attack with his handle.

I've dubbed the name, "Phanteer" for now. (Phantom + Puppeteer)




Also, ignore the random doodles on the side.
I know you are going for the puppet theme with it but if you remove board and strings you have a pretty good pokemon design.Though with out the stings and board you have to add something to chest area to make not look so plain maybe even with the string and board something small on the chest area would be good idea
 
Doug, I understand having trouble getting past the human-y look, but you really should simplify and stylize it a bit more. Particularly, those tatoos (?) on his arms and back are something you might want to streamline. Additionally, his musculature should tend more towards a cartoony look than a realistic one.

If a 9 year-old can draw a Pokemon well enough to be clearly recognizable, then it fits the art style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat tea_and_blues


This is absolutely adorable. I also love your shading & line style.
 
So can we submit as many drawings as we want? Excellent, i've been waiting for this. I'll post stuff as soon as I finish browsing the forums.

Edit: M'kay, here's what I've been working on. Sorry I don't have any sketches right now, I got a little ink happy. I'll re-do some though.



The outlining I did with my Crayola markers (I'm pretty low-tech) and I did the rest with PowerPoint. Imagine a floating eye with fists. One is a boxing glove.
Why doesn't anyone ever like my designs? Why!?
 

DougJustDoug

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Doug, I understand having trouble getting past the human-y look, but you really should simplify and stylize it a bit more. Particularly, those tatoos (?) on his arms and back are something you might want to streamline. Additionally, his musculature should tend more towards a cartoony look than a realistic one.

If a 9 year-old can draw a Pokemon well enough to be clearly recognizable, then it fits the art style.
I understand where you are coming from. And I respect the feedback.

Just like the Syclant art process, the chosen design will ultimately be converted to a sprite. The conversion to 80x80 pixel form will necessarily streamline many detail elements of the design. If my design is chosen, then we'll deal with it then. I'm including lots of details in the design, so people can get a good feel for the elements of the design. If we water all the details down now, then how is this any different than the sprite competition?

As for issues of "Pokemon style", I'd say the field expanded greatly with the D/P release. Look at Gliscor or Giratina and tell me that those look like kiddie cartoons. I agree that my design is not a snuggly little Smoochum, or a big round Snorlax. But I also didn't make some alien monster with blood-dripping fangs and claws. I stuck with a simple three-color scheme and pretty basic linework on most of the figure. The only exception is the tattoos, but those will simplify somewhat, if sprited. Not too much, however. Cyzir had very detailed ice wings in his original Syclant design. If you look at his sprite version, an amazing amount of wing detail was preserved.

I'm a little surprised that people are saying my design doesn't look cartoony enough. I've been drawing a long time, and the feedback I've always gotten is that my stuff looks too cartoony! I actually like it that way, and have little desire to do "realism". With my inking technique, which is very standard comic-book style inking (thick black outlines all over the place) -- everything I do is almost guaranteed to look like a cartoon to some degree. IIRC, in the Syclant art polls, that was a common knock against many of my designs -- "It's too cartoony." Story of my life.... That's why I find it so odd that this design is being knocked for not being cartoony enough.

I take your feedback seriously, and I'll be perfectly happy to make adjustments to the design to make it workable, if selected. At this point, it's just one of the possible designs that will hopefully make it to the art poll. I think it's a good representation of the design idea I want to present. Whether people think it's good enough, and appropriate for this pokemon -- that's a voting matter over which I have no control. There are many good designs that have come out of this thread. I'd be happy with many of them. Of course, I'm really hoping for mine.... ;)
 

Mario With Lasers

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I'm sure I won't stand the massive walls of text we have here, which is a shame, I admit. But I want to say I simple fell in love by Doug's Kana Pokémon, and that I need to address this post about Bulk Up+Cross Chop here. Is it possible to create a fighter ghost that fits the Water 1 Egg Group? Or should we just forget it and let it learn both moves?
 
I'm sure I won't stand the massive walls of text we have here, which is a shame, I admit. But I want to say I simple fell in love by Doug's Kana Pokémon, and that I need to address this post about Bulk Up+Cross Chop here. Is it possible to create a fighter ghost that fits the Water 1 Egg Group? Or should we just forget it and let it learn both moves?
Doug's design is one I see getting Focus Punch, Shadow Punch, and Bulk Up. It can't exactly slash or chop with gold brass knuckles on.

My fear of Cross Chop+Bulk Up more applies to TaB's drawings. None of his can really punch, removing Focus Punch and Sky Uppercut from the movepool. This leaves Brick Break, Cross Chop, and (Hi) Jump Kick left for moves. I don't know of any Fighting Pokemon that relies on Brick Break as its primary STAB move. This means we have to add one of the other options. Jump Kick seems like a nice compromise, until you realize that only Hitmonlee and Lopunny learn it. The list of Pokemon that learn Hi Jump Kick is more extensive, and Hi Jump Kick is more balanced than Cross Chop. But what if we go with the spear spuff without legs? That means we must include Cross Chop.

Yeah, that's the dilemma I'm running into.
 
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