CAP 2 Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Poll 4

[Mario With Lasers]

Okay, just because I'm feeling kinda useless here, I decided to calculate the Defense and Attack Tiers for all the spreads posted until now (last ones, so no outdated spreads). The format is 0/0 neutral, 252/252 +nature (NOT neutral, ok?):

Before anyone asks for, I'll post some tanks and walls' Defense Tiers. Remember people, these spreads are 0/0 neutral, 252/252 +nature. If you want the neutral spread, subtract 1 from the Tiers; if you want negative, subtract 1 again and f you want the 0/0 +nature spread, add 1:

[B]Wobbuffet:[/B] 118.35 - 124.18 Physical [i]and[/i] Special.
[B]Lapras:[/B] 118.27 - 123.72 Physical; 119.76 - 124.87 Special.
[B]Walrein:[/B] 118.18 - 123.56 Physical [i]and[/i] Special.
[B]Swampert:[/B] 117.59 - 123.05 Physical [i]and[/i] Special.
[B]Dusknoir:[/B] 117.15 - 122.65 Physical [i]and[/i] Special.
[B]Spiritomb:[/B] 115.56 - 121.34 Physical [i]and[/i] Special.
[B]Hippowdon:[/B] 120.49 - 125.38 Physical; 116.15 - 122.01 Special.
[B]Forretress:[/B] 119.91 - 124.88 Physical; 112.51 - 119.12 Special.
[B]Skarmory:[/B] 119.17 - 124.27 Physical; 113.03 - 119.43 Special.
[B]Gliscor:[/B] 118.87 - 124.01 Physical; 114.35 - 120.47 Special.
[B]Blissey:[/B] 110.21 - 120.08 Physical; 128.03 - 131.96 Special.
[B]Regice:[/B] 117.21 - 122.68 Physical. 123.65 - 128.06 Special.
[B]Milotic:[/B] 116.15 - 122.93 Physical; 120.22 - 125.14 Special.

Those are the walls/tanks I can think on top of my head now. I may add more later.

Well, on to the Tiers:

[B]Rhykune:[/B] [I]95/110/80/70/100/70[/I]

Physical Defense = 116.25 - 122.01 (Slowking, Salamence without Intimidate)
Special Defense = 118.2 - 123.51 (Gyarados)
Physical Attack = 58.18 - 60.49 (Swampert)
Special Attack = 54.25 - 57.46 (Castform)

[B]eric the espeon:[/B] [I]125/110/65/70/75/80[/I]

Physical Defense = 116.26 - 122.20 (really close to Slowking)
Special Defense = 117.45 - 123.08 (really close to Garchomp)
Physical Attack = 58.18 - 60.49 (Swampert)
Special Attack = 54.25 - 57.46 (Castform)

[B]futuresuperstar:[/B] [I]90/105/90/65/110/65[/I]

Physical Defense = 116.95 - 122.52 (Moltres)
Special Defense = 118.73 - 123.92 (really close to Togekiss)
Physical Attack = 57.76 - 60.15 (Muk)
Special Attack = 53.64 - 57.01 (Arbok)

[B]AJC First:[/B] [I]104/116/90/40/90/85[/I]

Physical Defense = 118.30 - 123.62 (better than Walrein, worse than Lapras)
Special Defense = 118.30 - 123.62 (better than Cradily, worse than Wobbuffet)
Physical Attack = 58.66 - 60.88 (Yanmega)
Special Attack = 49.87 - 54.43 (Heracross)

[B]AJC Second:[/B] [I]101/109/95/40/95/85[/I]

Physical Defense = 118.12 - 124.44 (min Def worse than Wobbuffet, max Def better than Wobbuffet)
Special Defense = 118.12 - 124.44 (min Def worse than Wobbuffet, max Def better than Wobbuffet)
Physical Attack = 58.10 - 60.42 (Torterra)
Special Attack = 49.87 - 54.43 (Heracross)

[B]KOA:[/B] [I]65/120/110/80/85/65[/I]

Physical Defense = 116.96 - 122.46 (Glaceon)
Special Defense = 114.68 - 120.67 (lol Electabuzz, Magmar)
Physical Attack = 58.97 - 61.13 (Blaziken)
Special Attack = 55.38 - 58.30 (Glalie)

[B]Deck Knight:[/B] [I]83/101/118/71/86/66[/I]

Physical Defense = 118.76 - 124.05 (really close to Lairon)
Special Defense = 115.95 - 121.82 (really close to Arcanine)
Physical Attack = 57.33 - 59.81 (Mew) [b]Off by one Base Point[/b]
Special Attack = 54.37 - 57.55 (Loudred)

[B]Gothic Togekiss First:[/B] [I]90/105/100/70/95/65 (525 spread)[/I]

Physical Defense = 117.88 - 123.24 (Articuno)
Special Defense = 117.43 - 122.89 (Dewgong)
Physical Attack = 57.76 - 60.15 (Muk)
Special Attack = 54.25 - 57.46 (Castform)

[B]Gothic Togekiss Second:[/B] [I]90/110/105/70/95/65 (535 Spread)[/I]

Physical Defense = 118.32 - 123.59 (Worse than Wobbuffet, better than Lapras)
Special Defense = 117.43 - 122.89 (Dewgong)
Physical Attack = 58.18 - 60.49 (Swampert)
Special Attack = 54.25 - 57.46 (Castform)

[B]DougJustDoug:[/B] [I]95/95/100/75/90/80[/I]

Physical Defense = 118.20 - 123.51 (really close to Walrein)
Special Defense = 117.27 - 122.79 (Clefable)
Physical Attack = 56.87 - 59.45 (Kangaskhan)
Special Attack = 54.83 - 57.89 (Ursaring)

[B]Syberia:[/B] [I]120/85/90/60/90/65[/I]

Physical Defense = 119.22 - 124.41 (really close to Uxie)
Special Defense = 119.22 - 124.41 (really close to Uxie)
Physical Attack = 55.90 - 58.70 (Raikou)
Special Attack = 52.98 - 56.54 (Aerodactyl)

[B]Cooper First:[/B] [I]90/125/85/70/85/65[/I] (520 spread)

Physical Defense = 116.45 - 122.13 (Zapdos)
Special Defense = 116.45 - 122.10 (Nidoqueen, Machamp, Moltres, Abomasnow)
Physical Attack = 59.34 - 61.43 (Heracross)
Special Attack = 54.25 - 57.46 (Castform)

[B]Cooper Second:[/B] [I]100/125/85/70/85/65 (530 spread)[/I]

Physical Defense = 117.09 - 122.67 (really close to Togekiss)
Special Defense = 117.09 - 122.67 (really close to Porygon2)
Physical Attack =  59.34 - 61.43 (Heracross)
Special Attack =  54.25 - 57.46 (Castform)

[B]Hitit4three First:[/B] [I]100/100/100/75/80/70[/I]

Physical Defense = 118.52 - 123.78 (Mew)
Special Defense = 116.57 - 122.27 (Azumarill, really close to Hariyama)
Physical Attack = 57.33 - 59.81 (Mew)
Special Attack = 54.83 - 57.89 (Ursaring)

[B]Hitit4three Second:[/B] [I]90/110/90/75/100/60[/I]

Physical Defense = 116.95 - 122.52 (Moltres)
Special Defense = 117.88 - 123.24 (Politoed, Raikou, Rayquaza)
Physical Attack = 58.18 - 60.49 (Swampert)
Special Attack = 54.83 - 57.89 (Ursaring)

[B]Umbrelava:[/B] [I]75/100/105/75/90/80[/I]

Physical Defense = 117.29 - 122.74 (really close to Drapion)
Special Defense = 115.92 - 121.66 (Vileplume)
Physical Attack = 118.52 - 123.78 (Mew)
Special Attack = 54.83 - 57.89 (Ursaring)

These are basically all the serious spreads spotted by me, and I'm sure I've forgotten someone >_>

And when I say "really close to whatever", the "really close" part means "0.01 to 0.10 Tier discrepance".

Any problems with the formatting?

BTW, 200th post here, wooo.

BTW², Lapras, Walrein and Wobbuffet are the gayest pokémon ever. Seriously.

 

[Viashino_wizard]

Mario, can I hug you?

 

[AJC]

Mario i have a new spread now

101/109/95/40/95/85

 

[KoA]

Well, Glaceon is not that bad defensively. :(

 

[DougJustDoug]

Wow, this poll is CLOSE! We gotta have a runoff between these two.

MWL, that is great stuff. Thanks for spending the time to give that "tier cheat sheet" for all the spreads.

 

[Rena22]

Well, i came up with this spread: 75/100/105/75/90/80 (BST: 525). Nothing special about it, but it seems to work.

 

[Sunday]

Hi guys, I'm back from my camping trip.

Also I'm 'special'

Anyways, went with 525 as that's the BST of the spread I've got planned...

 

[eric the espeon]

Your new spread: 125/65/75

454 * 251 = 113,954
454 * 273 = 123,942
Overall: 118,948

Overall it could be EV'd as such to be around Hariyama level defensively, but it's physical defense is sufficiently weak and its SD is around Swampert level, a little higher.

My only concern with the spread now is that 125/80 is just begging for a Band or Scarf, but there's not much I can do, it is, after all, your spread.

nonono i has 110 base attack and 80 base speed not 125/80

anyway after seeing my spread against the other spreads i think i will change it

old spread 125/110/65/70/75/80
new spread 125/110/70/65/78/72

125, so it can take hits on both sides quite well.

110 base attack, so it can hurt things with unbosted STAB attacks, but not be overpowerd if it gets bulk up.

70 def, i increased this when i saw it was similar to garchomp, with the high base HP it can take nutral hits very well.

65 base sp. attack, not to be used, but a 4x efective hidden power would do some damage e.g. HP fire for forry or ice for gliscor.

78 sp. defence, so it can take powerful sp. hits if eved to do so, with its great HP it will be hard to break with sp. attacks.

72 base speed, slow but able to outspeed stuff like metagross and tyranitar if eved to do so. max speed with a scarf would be quite fast.

comments/sugestions welcome

 

[Time Mage]

I mentioned that idea too...and I was the one who posted the sprite picture of her.

Well, it is not very important, but:

My suggestion, on January 20th. It was during the firs poll the evolution/new pokémon one, and I was trying to convince people of the viability of a Fighting/Ghost design for a Banette evo. I didn't post the sprite due to laziness, but just 12 minutes after that, BubblegumAngie posts the sprite, replying to my post. On February 2nd, you posted the same sprite here, in the art thread.

So, yeah. For one decent contribution I make, I wanted to make sure it's been recognized as mine.

 

[Hyra]

OMG! I just had an idea. No wait I mentioned this a while ago. Wouldn't it be a shit load easier to have the typing poll first then go to artwork? This would prevent what is happening from happening.

And give the artists 5 minutes to draw in?

Anyways, this is annoying. Can I just assume anyone who voted above 545 wants 526-545 and anyone who voted below 500 wants 500-525? It doesn't make sense for them to vote any other way.

 

[Time Mage]

And give the artists 5 minutes to draw in?

Anyways, this is annoying. Can I just assume anyone who voted above 545 wants 526-545 and anyone who voted below 500 wants 500-525? It doesn't make sense for them to vote any other way.

Well, the people who wanted 670-680 and the ones that wanted 580 I think could change their votes. The former wanted clearly an uber, so it would be suited to play in another tier, and the latter wanted it to be part of a legendary trio, with all the things that means (limited movepool, two other pokémon sharing some characteristic, etc.). So, maybe those would like to vote other options.

 

[GengarCrysis92]

And give the artists 5 minutes to draw in?

No, I mean give them the second poll. So they make an idea based off the type, not BST and other things. It makes it easier so we can avoid conflicts like this. It would be a whole lot easier to make BSTs after we make the art.

Also on aa really random note: What is a defense teir/attack teir? I don't understand the concept behind it. Can someone explain it thoroughly to me?

 

[Rhykune]

Is there going to be another poll? I need to know if I should still submit my spread today.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Added AJC's and Umbrelava's spreads.

No, I mean give them the second poll. So they make an idea based off the type, not BST and other things. It makes it easier so we can avoid conflicts like this. It would be a whole lot easier to make BSTs after we make the art.

Also on aa really random note: What is a defense teir/attack teir? I don't understand the concept behind it. Can someone explain it thoroughly to me?

As somebody I forgot had said before (I think it was Obi), it isn't the HP or the Defense alone that says how defensive a pokémon is. It's the HP * Defense stat. The Defense Tiers are pretty much the same, but Dragontamer just put them in a logarithmic level so it was easier to read and organize. The way to calculate them is pretty simple ("To calculate this on your computer, open up windows calculator, and do HP * Defense (or Sp. Def), hit the "log" button, and then divide by the magic number 0.041392685"). They are useful to do mass calcutations, as "hey, who is insta-killed by Heracross' Megahorn after one Swords Dance?".

I just don't know how he calculated the Attack Tiers, though.

 

[GengarCrysis92]

Ah, ok. Thank you!

 

[DougJustDoug]

Anyways, this is annoying. Can I just assume anyone who voted above 545 wants 526-545 and anyone who voted below 500 wants 500-525? It doesn't make sense for them to vote any other way.

That makes a ton of sense to me. Since there are no intervening ranges between the two leading ranges, it's probably a good assumption. I wonder if other people will freak out over it, but it doesn't bother me. I'm prepared to submit a spread for either range.

95/95/100/75/90/80 = 535
90/95/100/70/90/80 = 525

If the higher range wins, I might add 5 points to Sp. Atk. and bring it up to 540. At this point, I just need to know the limit.

So far, everyone has been submitting spreads under the assumption that 525 is the upper limit. I found it interesting that almost everyone maxed out the lower range, by submitting spreads at 525. If 545 is the limit, then people may change their spreads considerably. Will anyone max out at 545? We should have a mix of spreads within that range. That's the reason I mentioned that I might take my spread up to 540, just to give some variety. OTOH, if many people submit higher spreads, I'm inclined to keep mine at 535.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Anyways, this is annoying. Can I just assume anyone who voted above 545 wants 526-545 and anyone who voted below 500 wants 500-525? It doesn't make sense for them to vote any other way.

You could do that as that fine with me. I'm prepare for either BST range myself lol

 

[Xyra]

Shall this be more offensive or defensive?
id say
90/100/90/85/80/90 (535)

 

[futuresuperstar]

I obviously could change my spread for a higher base statistical total, but I would have to completely rewrite my explanation ... =(

 

[eric the espeon]

Anyways, this is annoying. Can I just assume anyone who voted above 545 wants 526-545 and anyone who voted below 500 wants 500-525? It doesn't make sense for them to vote any other way.

nonono please dont do that i know for a fact that two people voted for uber so their vote would not count (why not vote atall then? i dunno) and one "just for lols" i expect atleast half the uber votes are like this, the legindry trio votes are simply that votes for a legindry trio, you cant asume they want to have 526-540 over 500-525 because their first choice was a trio. the same can be said for 0-499 people wanting UU's, the may well want a strong OU now that UU is out of the question.
we need another poll.
it would be stupid to award the victory to to option thats behind, simply because more people want an uber/part of a trio than a UU.

also it would give us a bit more time to finalise our spreads and leave the art poll open a bit longer, but thats a minor issue.

 

[Hyra]

figured that would be Eric's response. Well, I really wish I could do half day polls. I'm just going to open a new one now because this isn't going to be decisive.

 

[eric the espeon]

figured that would be Eric's response.
how did you know? is it cos i always want more polls?
Well, I really wish I could do half day polls. I'm just going to open a new one now because this isn't going to be decisive.
right that sounds good