lee get on shoddy more so we can talk there >:]

And yes, i refer to him as Buu, not BOO :o

anyway, it seems plenty of people are entirely confused that kid buu is somewhere near the strongest and would easily defeat fat buu. WRONG!

I feel kid buu is above good buu and about equal to fat buu, if not weaker. Remember, kid buu was able to unleash all his potential because of pure evil. fat buu only used 50% of his power or so because he wasn't mad. if they were matched up against each other (again not good buu vs kid buu, this already happened), kid buu would likely start out quickly winning but fat buu would actually get angry and win.

don't forget that ss3 goku said he might have been able to finish fat buu, but when fighting kid buu, he and vegeta were both fully confident that it would defeat him. final villian =/= most powerful.

finally, ss2 vegeta killing himself to try to kill fat buu had no effect at all, while ss1 goku was able to obliterate kid buu with the spirit bomb :o

(db/z/gt group finally yesssss)

I actually think (i also think i heard it mentioned somewhere in the manga or anime) that Majin Buu never reached his true form in the anime. During one of the parts where Supreme Kai (or old Kai i forget which) was discussing the first time buu was unleashed, he said that buu was more powerful then than he was currently. when babidi was trying to hatch buu in DBZ the egg hatched too early so buu came out 'messed up'. basically neither of the buu forms you see in the anime are what buu really was supposed to be. he came out as fat buu accidentally and then based on the events that occured he transformed into different versions, never reaching his true potential

i have to believe super buu is what buu should have truly been.

tbh, he surpassed his "full potential" after becoming anything past super buu (picollo buu/buutenks/semi-ultimate buu/ultimate buu.

this sounds weird, but i mean, the fighters on earth were much stronger than anything kaioshen could have ever imagined. in the old days, buu wasn't able to absorb anyone strong enough to make too much of a difference, but in the z-fighter days, absorbing piccolo alone probably put him past any prediction potential

yeah you're probably right. super buu did look like a "final form" anyway. also i think that super buu definetely was his strongest after he absorbed Gohan. he even managed to take down Vegeto once he had all of that power

(Oh and for the record locopoke, fat buu isnt like that because of a screw up in the revival process, he's like that because kid buu absorbed the grand supreme kai - a fat, jolly, childish guy. Kid Buu took on his characteristics and Fat buu was born).

Based on the way the enemies are presented it would seem as though super buu w/gohan is his strongest form. When Goku is 'fighting' him, he is so psyched out by his power that he's on the verge of fusing with Satan of all people. Fast forward to the fight with Kid Buu and Goku is so confident that he says he could have easily beaten him if he wasn't fucking around and lost the power to maintain his ssj3 form.

so it would seem kid buu is not the strongest however, i dont think that is the case - the removal of all diluting influences allows kid buu to dig deeper into his evil energy. He's also a lot more dangerous due to his completely merciless nature. note how the very first thing he does is destroy the earth which is a stark contrast to super buu's shenanigans. an important thing to note is the absolute horror in kibutoshins face when he realises that super buu is turning into kid buu...there was no reason for such a reaction if kid buu was a weaker form.

and obviously the fact that goku was only at SSJ1 when he fired off the genki dama has no impact on anything at all as the genki dama isn't governed by the power of the fighter using it...goku says himself 'i know you're stronger than me, buu, but this is not just my energy - it's EVERYBODYS energy.' note: gokus genki dama beats omega shenron when he's in his normal state, and krillin is able to cripple vegeta with one too.

might think about this more later, im just thinking out loud here

yeah fuck now i remember. the grand supreme kai allowed himself to be absorbed because he knew that from within buu his pure goody-two-shoe powers would have a calming effect and greatly lower his power. When he is finally removed by Goku and Vegeta this handicap vanishes forever and Buu is allowed to use all of his powers for the first time in like 5 million years or something.

thats the official excuse anyway - all dragonball z merchandise like the games and shit like that recognise Kid Buu as the strongest of all, usually citing that reason.

agreed that ultimate buu (buu with unlocked potential gohan), is his strongest form. however, the reason goku thought about fusing with mr. satan was simply because he knew from the old lord of lords that the portara would create the ultimate warrior. the only thing stopping him from doing so is he was worried that satan would actually decrease his power.

super vegito is so out of everyone's league it isn't even funny. in fact, im somewhat confused on why he didn't kill ultimate buu right there, then get the dbs on namek to wish everyone back, including those absorbed.

i think you are somehow missing the point of what kid buu was (even though you even said it !!!). the reason he was so worried was that kid buu was evil incarnate, and would not hesitate to destroy life as we know it. he even says "absorbing the chubby buu made him gentle enough to at least seal away". the chubby lord made him stronger (as did the burly kai). this was never about strength or power levels.

uh he didn't have the strength to defeat buu with it though. yes, it would have won if it was just a clean shot, no matter what stage he was at. but he wasn't powerful enough to overpower buu with it until he was back to ss1. vegeta gave up all his power and life as a ss2 to just try and hurt fat buu and it didn't affect him at all. i know the spirit bomb is powered by others as well, but the fact is ss1 goku was able to overpower kid buu with it and destroy him, vegeta couldn't do what was practically the same thing as a ss2 to fat buu. kind of confusing but :/

i dont believe so at all, mega buu was definitely strong but ultimate buu was much stronger, comparing a buu that had only absorbed a supreme kai to a buu that had absorbed piccolo, full power gohan, goten/trunks, and good buu is ridiculous. mega buu was strong but muscles isn't everything, ultimate buu was just unbeatable to anyone except ssj vegito.

also, kaioshen stated he knew that southern supreme kai and how strong he was, and when seeing gohan, vegeta, and goku fight (not even fully unlocked potential), he was in disbelief and said he never imagined anything could be that strong. which explains his disbelief on buu being so strong as well.

i want to make a buu tier list

1.) ultimate buu
2.) semi-ultimate buu (both piccolo and gotenks)
3.) buutenks (gotenks only (shown very quickly iirc))
4.) buucolo (only picollo (shown very quikcly iirc))
5.) Super Buu
6.) Mega Buu
7t.) Fat Buu
7t.) Kid Buu
8.) Evil Buu
9.) Mr. Buu / Good Buu

because kid buu was the final boss of the games. who wants to play a game where you fight the strongest buu early and then fight a weaker buu as the final stage. games can't show evil being unlocked and being merciless.

as comparison, ultimate gohan was >>> ss3 goku, i think a lot of people agree with this. he was whooped up by semi-ultimate buu without trouble at all (couldn't even hit him once). ss3 goku was losing to kid buu but realized he had a real chance if he could build his power up for 1 minute.

ss3 goku would have been killed in under a minute against even semi-ultimate buu and definitely against ultimate buu. thats why the only hope was fusion.

ok i didnt wanna break out the big fucking guns but daizenshuus here we come. these were a small appendix like series written by toriyama in 1994. you can have a look through them here - http://www.kanzentai.com/daiz.php he provides some power level estimates that im sure you'll find very interesting!

http://www.ultimatedbz.com/powerlevels.shtml

(ps you lose)

Majin Buu: 390,000,000
Kid Buu: 500,000,000
Super Buu: 70,000,000
Ultimate Buu: 50,000,000


???

how are ultimate and super buu so low? how is majin buu so high?

i feel that is really messed up. just using common sense, ultimate buu and super buu should not be so low, and ultimate buu being 10x weaker than kid buu just makes no sense :/

you have indeed brought the big guns my friend, but i can't call for defeat when just the first few stats look ridiculously off. evil is not comparable to power, although perhaps to potential. if ultimate buu was about to lose to someone, im sure his evil power would increase to the point where he would be almost as evil as kid buu :/.

tbh, some of those power levels seem as if they were taken from a video game