A look at UU Bulky Waters.(Ground/Water)

[Aipom]

Taking a page from the recent Gastrodon>Swampert thread,
These Pokemon all have the same typing as Swampy, bul are all UU.

Stats at a glance:
Statistics: Whiscash
Hp: 110
Atk 78
Def 73
SpA 76
SpD 71
Spe 60

Statistics: Quagsire
HP 95
Atk 85
Def 85
SpA 65
SpD 65
Spe 35

Statistics:Gastrodon
HP 111
Atk 83
Def 68
SpA 92
SpD 82
Spe 39


Well the highest for each stat are:

HP: Close one, but Gastrodon
Att: Quagsire
Def:Quagsire
Spd: Whiscash (they're all slow as hell so it doesn't really matter)
SpDef:Gastrodon
SpAtt: Gastrodon

Obviously Gastrodon is most likely to be used, but any Quagsire/Whiscash users please explain why you do. If you've any creative movesets feel free to post them here:)

 

[Chou Toshio]

Whiscash is used? xD

Quagsire can be summed up pretty easily: Water Absorb.

Losing water resistance because of the ground typing is a pretty big hit to the water/ground typing, especially when comparing them to their fellow bulky waters like politoed and Wailord. Getting immunity to water is huge. Especially since let's face it, the abilities on the other two are pretty crappy.

 

[Kira]

I use Gastrodon in UU simply for counter/coat

He is in the same egg group as wobb according to serebii dex so it is legit... and he can recover off the damage.

I have tested out a sashed version that I use as backup if something like Pinsir gets a few too many SD's

Works very well and then you can always recover off the damage for later. Then your opponent will most likely bring a special attacker in and you can then hit them with a Mirror Coat.

 

[Aipom]

Whiscash is used? xD

Well I never actually said it was:/
Buy there are those who try em all out.

And I guess if I'm mentioning Bulky Waters,
Blastoise, Cloyster and Gorebyss should be mentioned.

 

[ODDish]

Obviously Gastrodon is most likely to be used,

Why? I'm sorry I'm not trying to be awkward but you just seem to have made this decision off base stats, which is never a smart thing to do.

In all the time I've been playing UU now I honestly can't remember ever having used Gastradon, primarily because its back sprite reminds me too much of excrement, but that's a whole different issue .... On the other hand I regularly use Quagsire.

Whiscash is used? xD

Yes ... not to a considerable degree admittedly, but it does see more play than some unfortunates.

Quagsire can be summed up pretty easily: Water Absorb.

It's certainly a prominant factor but I would hazard it's not the only reason ... it also has a fairly useful support move pool (Yawn, Haze, Encore) which serves to differentiate it from Gastradon and Whiscash.

I use Gastrodon in UU simply for counter/coat ... I have tested out a sashed version that I use as backup if something like Pinsir gets a few too many SD's. Then your opponent will most likely bring a special attacker in and you can then hit them with a Mirror Coat.

That's precisely the reason I always "attack" it with a status move, typically toxic. As they say fools rush in ...

And I guess if I'm mentioning Bulky Waters,
Blastoise, Cloyster and Gorebyss should be mentioned.

and Politoed, Huntail, Poliwrath, Lapras, Walrein, Lanturn is fairly bulky on the special side, as is Mantine. Kingler is physically bulky as is Pelipper. I think for the sake of simplicitly you'd be best sticking to water/grounds at least for the moment ...

 

[Kira]

I am aware that an opponent will often status it ODDish, that is why I use it as a last ditch effort against pokemon that maybe got a few too many SD's in... many opponents might not expect Sash and might be unwilling to switch out after they worked so hard for those boosts.

 

[TUskate]

I just did a run over the move pool of Wishcash just to see if maybe there was some niche it had over the other two water grounds...but it doesn't. The best I could offer is Spark? Which I'm sure is useful for other waters, barring of course the two we are discussing. The 'Cash deserves at least rock polish, or something to help it from being outclassed.

 

[Frokko]

The Standard Whiscash set is actually very useful in UU.
You can get one in my store. xD

 

[TUskate]

Haha shameless advertising Froko! Just shameless, almost as bad as my trade partner and his advertising of his Missy. My question is what sets it apart, it certainly isn't movepool. Or stats. Or ability.

 

[Frokko]

Haha, I had to try. ^^
But I do like Whiscash. It's fun to use.

 

[ODDish]

I am aware that an opponent will often status it ODDish, that is why I use it as a last ditch effort against pokemon that maybe got a few too many SD's in...

I wasn't trying to suggest that you weren't ... rather my intent was point out that, in general, Gastradon is one of those tricky pokemon who requires some degree of scouting to counter, and that direct offence is not necessarily the best method for dealing with it.

I probably could have been clearer, but that's what you get when posting whilst still half-asleep.

 

[Chou Toshio]

^half asleep neh oddish?

After all, Gastrodon has yawn just like quagsire. xD But yeah, Quagsire is a great pokemon in UU and I really think Water Absorb, Encore, etc. makes it stand out from Gastrodon.

Whiscash however really is a lost cause no matter how you look at it. xD

 

[Helios]

Um, it gets spark? Oh, and you can pretend to be one of those hackers in the battle tower and give your whiscash Stone edge + fissure + Quick claw (+ some hp for skar)

 

[cim]

Quagsire and Gastrodon are roughly on the same level in UU, I think, though I personally prefer instant recovery to higher Attack and Water Absorb.

Whishcash is pretty much NU, isn't he? Nobody likes him and he sucks.

 

[Aipom]

Whishcash is pretty much NU, isn't he? Nobody likes him and he sucks.

Nope, he's listed as UU.
even though he does suck... he still does have opportunity to be a viable choice on a small amount of teams.

 

[Chou Toshio]

^correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all the pokemon in the Smogondex UU at worst? Even Luvdisk is listed as "UU"

Seeing as how OU and Ubers are in such a disarray right now, sorting out what's UU and NU is just impossible. Still, one can easily see how Whiscash is outclassed here. :/

edit: speaking of bulky waters:

Charm turns Luvdisc into a very sturdy physical wall that can survive two Caterpie Tackles and force it to switch out.

O.O

 

[Aipom]

Why? I'm sorry I'm not trying to be awkward but you just seem to have made this decision off base stats, which is never a smart thing to do.

sorry, I was not being very specific. I also meant that gastrodon is most likely to be chosen with a good movepool eg: access to stockpile, recover, curse... I'm not basing this purely on stats, but they were merely an indication of why people use Gastrodon instead of Sire' and Cash'.

 

[gaudetjaja]

Smogon tiers don't make any difference between UU and NU (at least on the analysis page).

Wishcash is not necessarily a bad pokemon, it's just outclassed by two UU pokemon, which is why it's NU.

 

[Chou Toshio]

^ :( Poor Luvdisk will never get anywhere if he has to compete with the like of Whiscash and Lumineon. :(

 

[Aipom]

Wishcash is not necessarily a bad pokemon, it's just outclassed by two UU pokemon, which is why it's NU.

I agree
While he may be slow, Whiscash has just enough in his physical movepool to attempt a Choice Band set. He is still overshadowed by Swampert and Quagsire, and now Gastrodon also outclasses him. However, he is a decent choice in UU thanks to his useful typing, and reasonable defenses.

 

[Bourbon]

Whiscash is a lot of fun to use, but defensively, it's not so great. Outside of rest it lacks recovery, and doesn't have Water Absorb like Quaggy does. However, it's movepool is awesome. Spark? Zen Headbutt? It could be fun with a Choice Band, but other than that, the other water/grounds are better.

EDIT: THe BSTs for these pokemon are: Whiscash: 468 Quaggy: 430 Gassy: 475 Why is Quagsire used so much O_O

 

[Blissey_ODonnell]

What exactly are you trying to prove with Base Stat Totals? Maybe because Quagsire's stats are better placed? Gastrodon is a sitting duck to powerful physical attackers like Scyther and Pinsir.

 

[ODDish]

Why is Quagsire used so much O_O

Water Absorb, good defences, useful support movepool ... stats alone do not a pokemon make.

 

[Kira]

.EDIT: THe BSTs for these pokemon are: Whiscash: 468 Quaggy: 430 Gassy: 475 Why is Quagsire used so much O_O

Lol.... how can you even think of using BST as a basis for the most useful pokemon?

Entei has around 600BST yet it sucks... meanwhile Quagsire has the lowest BST of the three, yet is by far the most useful.

Dont judge by base stats

 

[Blissey_ODonnell]

Entei has around 600BST yet it sucks... meanwhile Quagsire has the lowest BST of the three, yet is by far the most useful.

By far? I wouldn't go that far. Gastrodon is a much better staller with Recover, and can Curse more effectively.