Super Smash Bros. Brawl: Character and Tier Discussion

[Mike B]

Squirtle plays almost like Sheik with its aerial game, light weight and quick smashes.

Ivysaur, like Olimar, has B> projectiles, up-juggles with B, great spacing game and a sucky recovery.


Charizard... a combination of Bowser and DeDeDe with quicker smashes, less recovery, flameguarding...


PT, to me, is a mixture of many good characters. I surprisingly kick ass with him thanks to playing the other ones compared to S/I/C.

 

[Surgo]

UmbreonMow had a really awesome Mewtwo as well!

 

[Rhykune]

So Did M2K no he didn't nevermind.

So... what do you guys think of Pikachu. I think he is one of the best characters in the game, as he can really play well against defensive styles, with one of the best approaches in QAC. He also has the best retreat with the same move for more spamming.

 

[Umby]

He's a solid character, but I wouldn't call him the best. His QAC approach is a beast, but a lot of his moves seem to telegraph themselves often and end up being somewhat easy to avoid and space attacks against.

 

[the Lexx]

Yeah, I don't ever see him becoming too popular, although I'd say he's probably high-tier.

 

[Mike B]

So... what do you guys think of Pikachu

Not a fan of the light weight or reflectors/absorbers and there's like two moves to kill with

 

[Umby]

Having a move that can be reflected or absorbed is kind of a meh reason for not being a fan of a character.

 

[leafgreen386]

What umby said. Pika's projectile is pretty freaking good. Full jump thundershock makes both a great approach and retreat. I think pika's biggest problem is actually getting kills, and he has to work for them more than other characters. Even still, it's no doubt that pika is very good and probably high tier.

 

[Rhykune]

Pikachu has no more trouble getting kills than Metaknight or Falco, and has a much easier time than ROB, they are still considered great.

 

[Mike B]

Having a move that can be reflected or absorbed is kind of a meh reason for not being a fan of a character.

How is it a 'meh' reason when your approaches and Thunder are hampered against Wolf, Fox, Falco, Ness, Lucas, Zelda and G+W?

 

[leafgreen386]

With proper timing/spacing, pika wins the reflector battle. Yes, you can effectively spam thundershock as much as you would like against a reflecting opponent, and not get hit. Eventually most people realize that reflecting is futile and try to actually approach you/outspam you (assuming they have more damage than you, otherwise you would be forced to approach them). He obviously can't use thundershock or thunder often against ness/lucas/GAW, but they are still usable to an extent. You just can't spam it like you usually could.

Pikachu has no more trouble getting kills than Metaknight or Falco, and has a much easier time than ROB, they are still considered great.

What's he kill with? Dsmash doesn't kill. Thunder doesn't kill (if it does the person sucks at airdodging). Fsmash only does a good job of killing when sweetspotted, where the sweetspot is right in front of pikachu and it has startup lag. Usmash got badly nerfed. Nair is ok. Dair is ok. Uair tail spikes aren't that effective anymore. Pika rarely kills anything before 110%, and they can get up to 130% or more before getting killed by a nair or dair in the event you can't connect with a usmash.

And there's a huge difference between mk/falco and pikachu. MK and falco can build up damage very quickly. Pika... not so much (unless he's up against a character he can chainthrow, of course).

 

[Umby]

With proper timing/spacing, pika wins the reflector battle. Yes, you can effectively spam thundershock as much as you would like against a reflecting opponent, and not get hit. Eventually most people realize that reflecting is futile and try to actually approach you/outspam you (assuming they have more damage than you, otherwise you would be forced to approach them). He obviously can't use thundershock or thunder often against ness/lucas/GAW, but they are still usable to an extent. You just can't spam it like you usually could.

Not to mention, for characters in general (what I was referring to in the first place, actually), a move being reflected or absorbed is to be expected, considering a majority of the cast has a projectile or two.

Pikachu has no more trouble getting kills than Metaknight or Falco, and has a much easier time than ROB, they are still considered great.

Metaknight can gimp better than Pikachu and even if MK's dsmash diminishes because it's so spammable, it's pretty easy to land. He also has shuttle loop and glide attack. Dtilt easily sets up for his fsmash. Ergo he has more options for kill shots.

Falco's laser is much better than Thunder Jolt. He can also spike or chain grab into a spike, usually meaning earlier kills.

R.O.B. just doesn't die. Even if he's not killing you, chances are you are killing him at a slower rate.

No offense, just trying make a point about Pikachu's killing ability vs the killing ability of those characters mentioned. I'm sure Pikachu has ways of killing and gimping that I have no full understanding of, but IMO, they're probably not as good as MK or Falco's options.

 

[Yagami Light]

What do you guys think can be practical uses for Ike's infinite grab on DeDeDe? I wrote up a small thing here:

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5194808&postcount=12

But I think I'm missing something.

 

[Mr.E]

There are no practical uses since it's purely a stalling technique and you're going to get chewed out and DQed if you don't stop doing it in a real match.

 

[-Nitro-]

Not only does it lack uses aside from stalling, it's extremely situational.

Only use I can think of is teams, of course, where your partner can make use of it. Then again, the otehr enemy might ruin it, and the whole situational thing comes in.

 

[Umby]

I don't question TL's placement. He's overrated tbh. I'm just surprised he got above Olimar, actually.

I definitely wouldn't put Link at the very bottom. Perhaps above Ganondorf, but I'm not sure about that one.

 

[Mexi-Kade]

I was not expecting King DDD to pull ahead of Game and Watch but eh. Also, hurray Lucario!

 

[Umby]

Jesus, the Sonic boards are in an outrage over this shit.

 

[Yoshi King]

Why? He's a shit character.

Then again, the same could be said for me since Yoshi's 5th from bottom, which is precisely why I'm keeping my mouth shut for now even though I personally disagree with it.

 

[Jibaku]

Marth is too low. He should be at least 5th in the tier list, considering his match ups and tourney rankings. The SBR has a bias against him for I don't know what reason. Ask EL.

I'm fine with Lucario's placement though.

Although I don't like him, I believe that Link is being placed too low in the tier list. Same with Sonic too, but "whatever" I guess.

 

[Dunk]

Marth and G&W are too low

Lol at Ness' spot

 

[chimpact]

Go Diddy Kong. And yea Yoshi is too low. His ability to edge guard, not be edgeguarded, combo and KO at above average percentages makes him at least mid tier.

 

[Deck Knight]

Why? He's a shit character.

Then again, the same could be said for me since Yoshi's 5th from bottom, which is precisely why I'm keeping my mouth shut for now even though I personally disagree with it.

Furthermore, Ganondorf is your lord and master, and is at least mid-tier >_>

Btw, how the heck did DDD get so high? Maybe I just need to practice with him more, but he is a huge target and rather clunky.

 

[Steeler]

captain falcon should definitely be the worst. link and ganondorf are debatable, but it doesn't make much of a difference lulz.

also i hope people start hosting low tier tourneys like they did in melee, poke trainer likey. :D charizard does not belong in low tier lulz.

 

[chimpact]

i thinkOlimar should be higher. His camping game is unbeatable. His fmash has great range as well as his grab and he can chain grab. terrible recovery yes but when you camp it doesnt matter that much.