Why do people think Christianity is better than Islam?

[the Lexx]

I'm sorry, feel free to offer an alternate interpretation if you wish.. admittedly it could be 'if they fuck before marriage then as long as he marries her it's all good'.. but it specifically states 'rape'.

It's all to do with this ridiculous obsession with female virginity. Stupid stupid.

It's more of a cultural thing, and it's to protect the woman - back then a woman who was a non-virgin for any reason had an almost zero-percent chance to ever get married. Therefore they'd have no way to be provided for since women couldn't hold land or make money.

Also virginity is expected of men too in the bible, moreso in the New Testament books but it was always valued.

 

[tea_and_blues]

"Wrong. Christianity (attempts) to teach morality and the catholic church does alot of charitable things. Extremist Christians cause issues. In Scientology they teach "give us money" and "you're better than non-scientologists. Act as such". Go ask a scientologist about Xenu. He won't respond. Go ask a christian about Jesus. He'll answer."

Excuse me, but if a religion says 'If you're not one of us, you'll burn in eternal hellfire.' Then it is effectively teaching Christians that they are, in a sense, 'better' than non-Christians. Christianity has noble ethics within its silly little frame, but non-arrogance is not included.

 

[Tangerine]

Yay for twisted interpretations that make Christians look like Hypocrites!

Now, obviously considering I'm not a perfect Christian, I'm not going to be able to respond to these fragments as much as I would want to. However, I will try my best to try and answer your points.

If I need to use two words to describe Christianity it would be humility and love. Yes, obviously some things are not going to be explained by "love" (Old Testament Laws that akuchi keeps referring to).

Now, speaking of

I'm sorry, feel free to offer an alternate interpretation if you wish.. admittedly it could be 'if they fuck before marriage then as long as he marries her it's all good'.. but it specifically states 'rape'.

These are rules. Your argument, at its core, can be applied to stealing, in which we can say

"It is okay to steal because if they get caught they can 'make it up' to the other party with money"

Obviously Bible does not condone stealing. By the same logic - why would it condone rape? Sure, it is a "loophole" to "get away" with rape - but the point is that it is a PUNISHMENT and your responsibility as a human being within the community to atone for your crimes. The 50 shekel payment is clearly a punishment - just because the "punishment" is there does not make the crime acceptable because they can just pay the punishment if they get caught (nowhere in the Bible does it ever mention that rape is "acceptable" - and if you're going to bring up the Book of Judges incident where they forcibly take wives - then you missed the POINT of the book of Judges where it is about how people "did as they saw fit" and how corrupted people were before God's guidance).

Just because people did crazy shit, within the Bible and out of it does not mean Christianity condones it.

The Old Testament Laws do not apply today, obviously. The Old Testament Laws are at least 3000 years old - and they apply to people of that bygone era. They do not apply to us - times have changed and society has made tremendous changes from the seemingly barbaric ways in the past.

Christianity makes this clear - we are not there to change society by making "laws" but to change society by the way we act and becoming the salt and light of the world, not by forcing shit down people's throats through laws. We are to submit to authority and society - as long as they do not go against the core beliefs of Christianity, of course. The Biblical Laws give people a way to live holy lives within that society. This is why the laws were still recorded - we are not supposed to "live by these laws" but only to figure out WHY the laws were there so we can apply them today (which would be the Talmud but Talmud is also like 1000 years old). Jesus did not say "do not pay taxes to caesar" but to just "go along with the system of Government". We are to change society with how we act - something that is more and more difficult to accomplish especially nowadays considering our society is getting more and more liberal (this is why many "fundamentalist" christians are conservative)

So basically akuchi your interpretation is then completely out of context and while I can understand your sentiments behind the interpretation, it does not reflect Christian values at all.

Excuse me, but if a religion says 'If you're not one of us, you'll burn in eternal hellfire.' Then it is effectively teaching Christians that they are, in a sense, 'better' than non-Christians. Christianity has noble ethics within its silly little frame, but non-arrogance is not included.

In a sense, yes. In a sense, no. Trying to claim Christianity is "arrogant" because "in SOME sense they are 'better'" is pretty ridiculous - considering Christianity does not teach that in any way of form.

The Bible makes it clear that the believers and non believers - aka "all man" are sinners. That means we are all on equal ground - we are not "better" because we believe in the Christian God. In fact, Christianity is defined by humility - which means that after we believe in Jesus we recognize that we are sinners (which obviously non believers will not realize).

Now if you are arguing that Christians are "better" because they recognize themselves as sinners... then "lol". This is not even "in a sense" - this is pretty much how it is. Of course Christians are also humans - some do not quite realize this and might act like they are superior because of their beliefs but do not attempt to lump these kinds of attitudes with Christianity because simply put, "it is not Christian to do so" - same thing with many many stupid shit "Christians" do nowadays (and of course, my arrogance in being able to call Christians 'Stupid' but I'm still working on that)

We are supposed to accept other people and love them not to tell them 'we are better' - that is pretty ridiculous and anti christian. The way you recognize the great leaders of Christianity is by their Humility not by what they have accomplished. Sadly, the christian church is something that is declining nowadays - and in my opinion is trying to turn the Religion into the Government which is pretty terrible but a rant for another time

Okay I'm out.

 

[shipship]

Well it does become a problem when the Fundamental Christians you mentioned actually have sway in American politics, so much that in some states, in science classes, evolution must be taught as "just one possible theory" and then creationism taught as "an equally plausible theory", which I have a serious problem with.

Agreed. This is pretty embarassing for America. It's ironic how we have many of he world's best scientists, yet so much of our population chooses to be scientifically illiterate. The worst thing about this is that the scientifically illiterate seem to think that their opinion about science is "equally valid" as those of actual scientists. Whenever the creationists get shut down, they claim that their views are "oppressed" by the scientific community. They need to realize that science is not a democracy. If you don't have facts, you don't have a case, period.

 

[shipship]

Wrong. Christianity (attempts) to teach morality and the catholic church does alot of charitable things.

Yes, Christianity "attempts" to teach morality, but I want nothing to do with that morality.

What really bothers me about Christianity and Islam is how they claim a MONOPOLY on morality.

They say things like "how can you be moral without God?"

I also fail to see the point about charity. Yes, there are a lot of charities that are organized by the church, but I doubt atheists are any less charitable as a whole.

 

[RobertM]

I wasn't bashing atheists. I was saying that even though religion sucks, Scientology is still the worst one. Don't just read the first sentence.

 

[shipship]

I wasn't bashing atheists.

I wasn't saying you were at all.

I was saying that even though religion sucks, Scientology is still the worst one.

No doubt Scientology sucks, but I'm sure crazier stuff is out there so it's probably not the "worst."

 

[RobertM]

Scientology is the only religion that outright teaches violence and harassment. Plus they take your money. I can't imagine anything much worse than that.

 

[Doctor Heartbreak]

These are rules. Your argument, at its core, can be applied to stealing, in which we can say

"It is okay to steal because if they get caught they can 'make it up' to the other party with money"

It, uh, it really can't be applied to stealing. Stealing is taking property from someone, so paying them back or replacing the property is a valid solution. Rape, on the other hand. Oh boy.

Raping a woman is not taking property from her. Raping a woman is especially not taking property from her father. The Bible verse Akuchi quoted is offensive because it treats women as property - the idea that the father should be reimbursed if his daughter is raped is bad enough. The idea that she should be forced to marry her rapist, and that this is a punishment for the rapist, is straight-up repulsive.

The important thing about the quote is not that it "condones" rape, which it may or may not depending on one's reading. The important, undeniable point is that the rights of the raped woman are never considered. Instead, the rights of the father are the foremost concern. Then, the punishment of the rapist - at the expense of the raped woman. Yes, he is atoning for his crime within the community, but the recommended way to atone is focused on the wrong things. The rights of the freshly-raped woman just never even come into play. The verse, like much of the Old Testament, treats women as property, and comparing theft and rape makes it sound like you're endorsing this view.

PS I know you already talked about Old Testament law being obsolete, along with a lot of other things which I mostly think are clear-headed and sensible. I'm only really taking issue with this particular analogy because it seems so incongruous. I don't meant to suggest you're a misogynist either (I'd go after Deck Knight first). Just that you might want to rethink the comparing rape to theft thing.

 

[cyberzero]

Guys, the more I read this, the more I don't understand why we're having this argument here.
The FEW differences between Islam and Christianity include one God instead of a Trinity, Jesus being one of the greatest prophets instead of the Son of God, and Muhammad being the last prophet of God.
Although these differences are significant, they are also few. The morals that the practicing Christian would express are the same as the ones that the practicing Muslim would display.
The stories, the ethics, the concepts, almost EVERYTHING is the same, and BOTH religions teach harmony, peace and mercy to other people, despite racial, ethical, and religious differences.
Therefore, I would not say that one is better than the other, despite what mistakes or differences we see.

 

[monkfish]

The Bible is absolutely no better, condoning rape and all that jazz.

any religion condoning jazz is a-ok in my book

 

[tea_and_blues]

The stories, the ethics, the concepts, almost EVERYTHING is the same, and BOTH religions teach harmony, peace and mercy to other people, despite racial, ethical, and religious differences.

That seems to be cherry-picking, though. Many Islamic and Christian people I know are incredibly intolerant of gay marriage, of women's right to abort, of overt sexual theme, and even of other religions.

 

[Itachi90]

lol. Ok so this is really interesting. Anyone here a Baha'i because that's what you guys sound like. Some of you guys. So unfortunately the Bible is a violent book. At least in the Old testament. All those things though changed in the New Testament after Jesus Christ died. I dont know much 'bout Islam besides the fact that I believe its wrong.

 

[Articuno64]

I dont know much 'bout Islam besides the fact that I believe its wrong.

I'm not really participating in this thread, but I had a good laugh at this line and wanted to highlight it.

 

[umbarsc]

I already sigged it.

But yeah cyberzero, I'm agreeing with tea and blues here. Tolerance is definitely something that seems to have been pushed aside in modern Christianity. For a religion that constantly says how it's been persecuted and all that jazz, they really are quite intolerant of other religions, and anything that goes against the Bible.

 

[Neverlend]

Because islam resembles people of 9-11,and because of the fact that the world was in the church's hand for 1000 years

 

[chimpact]

Actually theres been a rise of people converting to islam after 9/11. And I have noticed that there are considerably more people going to friday prayer than before also. so 9/11 just made racist people reason to justify themselves.

 

[Bourbon]

Yes, Christianity "attempts" to teach morality, but I want nothing to do with that morality.

What really bothers me about Christianity and Islam is how they claim a MONOPOLY on morality.

They say things like "how can you be moral without God?"

I also fail to see the point about charity. Yes, there are a lot of charities that are organized by the church, but I doubt atheists are any less charitable as a whole.

The Christian faith doesn't ever say that you cannot be moral without God. I know zillions of respectable, honest, non-christians. Are they immoral? No.

The whole point of Christianity is that you can't really get to heaven on your own means. You've got to accept Jesus' "free gift" and he'll forgive your sins. Easy as that. And even if you do something terrible, you can come crawling back and he'll still find it in his heart to forgive you... he loves you infinitely more than any human being could.


Anyways, you guys gotta stop taking these weird bible things out of context. Half of these things the isrealites were "allowed" to do where not approved of by God... in fact, I would say 80% of the old testament was spent documenting how stupid the isrealites were, how sinful they were... but God never turned them away.

I mean seriously, they started sacrificing their children to idols and having orgies in the temple... you think God told them to do that!?

 

[akuchi]

You know, I think I'd respect god *more* had he instructed his followers to do so. Might as well get a bit of fun in there, too..

 

[tea_and_blues]

The whole point of Christianity is that you can't really get to heaven on your own means. You've got to accept Jesus' "free gift" and he'll forgive your sins.

But really, how does this differ from any other cult? Why Jesus? Quite frankly, I say: No flying spaghetti monster? Know fear! Know flying spaghetti monster - no fear!

 

[Bourbon]

I'm not forcing anything on you, tea_and_blues, I am explaining the philosophy behind the religion, because it's screamingly obvious that a lot of people here do not understand...

a lot of people think that christianity is telling you "you've got to be a perfect person, no secks, no drinking, no fun". While in reality, the opposite is true. A real christian knows they are gonna slip up sometimes, and God doesn't really care, as long as you're truly sorry for screwing up.

Nobody is anywheres near good enough to go to heaven, so why try?


And another thing, sir... why are you comparing christains to a cult? It's not exactly an exclusive club we're talking about here. This isn't the Masons where you've got to go through a huge initiation process, and be related to a Mason, etc. You just ask for forgiveness... and bam, you're in.

Also I've never seen a christian person turn people away... I mean, I would love it if everybody went to heaven. However, I'm not going to force feed you guys anything. If you want to believe other religions, thats OK with me. We're all entitled to believe in supernatural beings.

I just chose to be a christian because it's the only religion where you're pretty much set for an awesome afterlife just by asking someone to forgive you... all the others require you to do crazy stuff and perform weird rituals. Jesus is pretty much giving you a free ticket to awesome-ville, you've just gotta walk up and ask for one.

@ Akuchi: Are you saying you'd respect God more if he told his people to have orgies... or are you saying you'd respect him more if he instructed his people to follow him?

If it's the latter, God is a pretty patient guy. He asks the isrealites for their full devotion like, I dunno, a few dozen times in the old testament alone. et they still go off and worship golden calves... but when the going gets tough, they are like "why isn't God helping us!?" He pulls them out of the fire on more than one occasion, helped them win wars, provided them with food and water, and so on. Yet when they go off and worship other stuff, they get their butts kicked. It's not like God is a meanie... the only time bad stuff happens to the protagonists of the Bible it's when they turn away from him.

Think of God as a sort of dad character. You get fed up with his rules and run away from home. Do you expect him to provide for you now? I don't think he would... you left the house, you're on your own.

 

[gaudetjaja]

Wow I agree with skiddle on everything he said, but it's not true that you shouldn't try not to sin. You should try, but if you slip up (and you will) God will forgive you.

The idea that God simply burns everyone who doesn't follow him is just a turned around vision of how it really is: despite our many sins he chooses to have Mercy and redeem us, you only have to accept that really.

I also think, however, that the Islam is not really understood. How many of the people in this thread have ever really read the Kuran (or however it's spelled)? There are probably things in there that promote violence, but that's in the Bible too and I doubt that many people know how many of those phrases are in there exactly, and how they relate to the context. Saying that 'islam is violent' is therefore not necessarily true.

Just to give an example of 'violence' that is ripped out of context (the entire chapter here):

Babylon, you will be destroyed.
Happy are those who pay you back
for what you have done to us— 9 who take your babies
and smash them against a rock.

But really, how does this differ from any other cult? Why Jesus? Quite frankly, I say: No flying spaghetti monster? Know fear! Know flying spaghetti monster - no fear!

Tea and blues: First, I've got to say that I get the impression that you really have a bigoted view of religion, but I just feel like replying to this.

There is no religion, other than Christianity, that features a god that loves his creation. He loves his creation, so much in fact that he keeps forgiving them their sins. Because he loves us, he doesn't want to send the creation into eternal damnation in Hell, even though they deserve it for all the sins they have done. Because of that, Christianity believes that God sacrificed His Son to redeem the sinners of eternal damnation. See it as a gift. However, you have to accept this, otherwise you cannot accept the gift of Redemption. That is why those who do not accept this gift receive Eternal Damnation, because God will not help people if they refuse His help.

An analogy: Say someone offers you ten bucks, and you are very poor and you don't have money to buy food. If you do not accept the money, you'll eventually starve. However, you do not want to accept the money because you don't like said person or something. Do you expect that you still get the money, even if you keep refusing it?

So, do you really think that this is not unique to Christianity? Name a religion or cult that shares the following:

1. A God, Spirit or Deity that loves his Creation
2. A God that gives Mercy to his creation.
3. A God that promises eternal afterlife without demanding sacrifice.

And there are probably many more distinctions than this.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

At least Deck Knight has the guts to say what he thinks even if it is completely insane...

I agree with the posters who said that religion is really more of a problem than a useful force in this modern age. Islam is the "worst" right now in the sense that more people are being trained to believe insane positions that cause insane actions instead of evaluating life rationally and making reasonable choices. If you are deciding to kill yourself by detonating a bomb in a crowded marketplace on the basis that some ancient book says good things will happen, you have a big problem. Of course, this isn't so much a problem with Islam itself (which is not particularly more screwed up than most religions when examined carefully); it's a problem with the culture in the regions in which it is prominent.

Of course, the atheist worldview runs into some difficulty in the simple problem that most people are not atheists, and it's incredibly non-productive to refuse to work with them (especially since *MOST* of them are, other than being religious, pretty rational people). I think the best thing to promote if you want to help the world's religious situation is freedom of information. Sure many people will still choose religion, but they will at least be informed enough to avoid making the biggest mistakes and informed enough to make legitimately useful contributions to the world society. I imagine most young suicide-bombers-to-be wouldn't do it if they were exposed to a wider range of philosophies and a large and objective pool of factual information that would let them evaluate whether their choices were truly rational.

Do note that it's not just Islam at fault here; it's just that Islam is the current most common problem. That crazy cult in Texas where the young girls were, by total deprivation of information, led to believe it was a good idea to engage in polygamous marriages as teenagers was pretty awful too (I doubt the male children in that cult were given any better information and are really equally victims... it's just that the women are more sympathetic). I'm not sure this is actually any better than being taught to be a suicide bomber; at least the suicide bombers don't end up reproducing and spreading the ignorance in which they have been ingrained like a disease.

So the short version is that the main problem is less religion and more the way some groups indoctrinate people, especially children who don't know better, in very narrow worldviews and deprive them of information so they don't even have the chance to discover why what they have been taught is wrong.

 

[X-Act]

I'll just say that this argument is pointless, as no conclusion will ever be reached from it.

Except this one: "Religious arguments don't reach any conclusions".

 

[Goodbar]

Just remember that people teach religion, and as people they make mistakes. Which is why I wish people would stop bashing Christians for believing crap like we support rape and think everyone who isn't Christian is gonna burn in hell, because as a Christian I know I don't. And especially stop bashing Christians for having certain views on controversial issues (someone down the line criticized Christianity for being pro-life I saw), because they're usually based on good values. And I don't believe Christianity is better than Islam, it's just what I've chosen to accept based on numerous things I won't get into.

So like X-Act said religious arguments don't reach any conclusions =/