Skymin Discussion Thread

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
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Ice Punch can't even break Skymin's sub if it's running HP EV's, and good luck trying to even use it with a 40% chance of moving.

Aerodactyl seems like a potential counter, but if Skymin has a sub up and air slashes when Aerodactyl switches in, Aero's done.
LOL @ 4x effective attack not doing 25% damage. Skymin has 100/75/75 defenses. Please, Registeel isn't that weak. Do some Calcs.

I did No EV Ice Punch on 8/0 Tropius with 15 Defense IV, which has the same HP/defense as a 0/0 Skymin.

Result: 64-76%.

Yeah, SubSeed Shaymin would be pretty annoying, but with only a little EV Investment Registell can get it below 25% HP, removing any chance of it being able to Sub.

Registeel with 120 Atk EVs vs. 0/0 Skymin: 75-88%. That's a OHKO with Stealth Rock out.

Anti-Skymin Registeel:

Registeel @ Leftovers
252 HP/120 Atk/136 Def
Nature: Careful
~ Ice Punch
~ Stealth Rock
~ Rest
~ Thunder Wave/Amnesia/Sleep Talk.

Timid Skymin 252 SA Seed Flare on aforementioned Registeel:

16-19%

Timid Skymin 252 SA Air Slash:

10-12%

Timid Skymin 252 SA HP Ground:

26-30%. 4HKO Tops.

So yeah, SubSeed Shaymin would be highly annoying, but Registeel can set down rocks and then Ice Punch later. In the meantime, it can easily PP Stall or Rest-stall.
 
LOL @ 4x effective attack not doing 25% damage. Skymin has 100/75/75 defenses. Please, Registeel isn't that weak. Do some Calcs.

I did No EV Ice Punch on 8/0 Tropius with 15 Defense IV, which has the same HP/defense as a 0/0 Skymin.

Result: 64-76%.

Yeah, SubSeed Shaymin would be pretty annoying, but with only a little EV Investment Registell can get it below 25% HP, removing any chance of it being able to Sub.

Registeel with 120 Atk EVs vs. 0/0 Skymin: 75-88%. That's a OHKO with Stealth Rock out.

Anti-Skymin Registeel:

Registeel @ Leftovers
252 HP/120 Atk/136 Def
Nature: Careful
~ Ice Punch
~ Stealth Rock
~ Rest
~ Thunder Wave/Amnesia/Sleep Talk.

Timid Skymin 252 SA Seed Flare on aforementioned Registeel:

16-19%

Timid Skymin 252 SA Air Slash:

10-12%

Timid Skymin 252 SA HP Ground:

26-30%. 4HKO Tops.

So yeah, SubSeed Shaymin would be highly annoying, but Registeel can set down rocks and then Ice Punch later. In the meantime, it can easily PP Stall or Rest-stall.
Umm "Skymin" is 4x weak to Ice
Yeah, that's right I forgot to add type bonus. Still, sub+leech seed+leftovers+flinch more than makes up for it.[/QUOTE]

This is the Subseed set I'm talking about.

Skymin @Leftovers
Timid (+speed, -attack)
EVs: (252 HP/ 252 SPE) (252 SPATK/ 252 SPE)
Moves:
Air Slash
Growth
Substitute
Leech Seed

Amnesia and Growth cancel each out in a stall war, but skymin can pull ahead with recovering +24% each turn while Registeel takes 12% at least from leech seed, not to mention additional damage will accumulate with Air Slash's flinch rate. With no Pressure, Skymin can use Growth (max 64 PP according to Bulbapedia? o_O) to stall out his rests (16 PP max) and even amnesia (max PP 32 according to Bulbapedia).
 
I'd assume it'd just be appear as a regular shaymin with Skymin stats/abilities etc., but it hasn't been confirmed =/

Here's some interesting stuff (All ran on Neutral Def 0 EV skymin also 0 HP)

Band Mamo ice-shard OHKO's
So does non-band

Band Viles ice-shard OHKO's
So does non-band

Band Mamo ice-shard doesn't OHKO yachemin, Yachemin OHKO's back

Band Vile ice-shard doesn't OHKO yachemin, yachemin BARELY OHKO's back with HP Fighting (Doesn't OHKO with anything else)

If it can't OHKO weavile, I have a hard time accepting the legitimacy of this arguement =/
 
Band Vile ice-shard doesn't OHKO yachemin, yachemin BARELY OHKO's back with HP Fighting (Doesn't OHKO with anything else)
Weavile probably outspeeds Skymin (and can therefore use Ice Punch) anyway, one serebii page says 127 base speed, another one says 120, but there's a screenshot of its stats on one of those pages where its speed is lower than its special attack.
 
yes if weavile is not ohked then it is a 100% counter as long as it dosen't switch into a subseed set's attack. It would go like this:

Weavile switched in!
Skymin used sub/seed!
Weavile used Ice shard!
Shaymin used move x!
weavile kills

thats pretty effective as weavile can also pursuit it to prevent any notion of switching.

A safe lead in to this is also a u-turn rachi who is not ohkoed by any moves and can u-turn to break its sub and then weavile gains a free switch into a non-subed skymin. Dead skymin.

Same goes for mamoswine. Also, If the 120 spd is confirmed, it will definatly be OU as it is outsped by a lot more threats for revenging.
 
Look, Shaymin's base stats are going to equal 600 no matter what. Why do you think it's attack is 103? It is because it's speed is 127 not 120. Still don't think Uber.
 
Ok so this should clear things up.

Psypokes has a calculator that has skymin in it.

Max/leftovers skymin seed flare to 0/0 neutural weavile: 251 max out of 281 hp.

That's the seed sets max attacking potential. weavile then KOs back with ice shard after breaking the sub. So weavile is a very sure handed counter to the seed set especially when paired with u-turn jirachi but that is not necessary. Registeel is a sure counter for all other sets and Regice is very good as well.

It can be countered, therefore should not be uber, at least not right away.

Edit: for the overcentralization comment, it is basically saying, if we need to use a new and not common poke to counter a new threat, it is overcentralizing. Since you need to have a specific counter to ddLO Gyrados, is it uber? No. Just because a poke needs another poke to counter it, does not mean it is over centralizing. Also, many more counters have been listed in this thread as well so in no way is registeel the only option, just the most effective one.
 
Ok so this should clear things up.

Psypokes has a calculator that has skymin in it.

Max/leftovers skymin seed flare to 0/0 neutural weavile: 251 max out of 281 hp.

That's the seed sets max attacking potential. weavile then KOs back with ice shard after breaking the sub. So weavile is a very sure handed counter to the seed set especially when paired with u-turn jirachi but that is not necessary. Registeel is a sure counter for all other sets and Regice is very good as well.

It can be countered, therefore should not be uber, at least not right away.
Weavile gets killed by HP Fighting or Switching into Stealth Rock and then Seed Flare. YacheSkyMin (YSM) doesn't die to Ice Shard.

Let's make this thing into a YacheChomp. You CANNOT OHKO with Ice Shard (apart from Crits.) before Yache is used. With SR, as common as it is today, Weavile will die, either to Seed Flare and HP Fight. HP Ground can do serious damage to Jirachi, especially after 2 stages of S.Def has been lowered. Registeel/Regice/Crobat may be a sure counter, but having those 3 MUST BE ON A TEAM (maybe a specially made Zapdos/Articuno/Moltres), isn't that overcentralizing? That's what got Garchomp into Uber.

And most likely you only have 1 counter. If you have 2, just for SkyMin alone, then it is REALLY overcentralizing. Say the counter dies... What you gonna do? Lose? It's just too powerful. Darkrai's Uber. Its speed is 2 slower, and maybe it has sleep, but so does Crobat/Gengar. They're not Uber. Darkrai's Uber because it's overpowered. This thing is faster than Darkrai + it has Serene Grace. That's even more haxful than Garchomp.
 
I listed above a bunch of potential counters and Revenge Killers, so why did u guys only point to Registeel/Weavile?. Take into consideration Focus Sash as well.
Because needing focus sash to counter something is ridiculous? All the popular scarfers have an ice move so it shouldn't be too hard to revenge Skymin. I don't think it should be compared with Garchomp because its coverage is pretty bad in comparison, not as bulky and weak to SR.
 
Crobat?

4x resistant to Seed Bombs
Oftentimes packs Brave Bird, Sludge Bomb or Air Slash.

The good thing about Crobat, is it is immune to Flinch either way:
1. It is faster.
2. If it gets Paralyzed or Shaymin gets Salac or Speed passed to it, it still can use Inner Focus to remain Immune to Flinching.

Crobat can also Taunt and Hypnosis (Taunt Prevents Sub / Seed), and Hypnosis can work even better on Skymin now because it doesn't have Natural Cure anymore like its other form once did.
Yup, Jolly max attack crobat OHKO 0/0 skymin with brave bird =D
 

Death Phenomeno

I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
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Has anyone tried to check what Tutors can Shaymin learn?

If it gets Seed Bomb, maybe Swords Dance could actually be good for something (but more for Land Forme).

But I'm more interested in what Sky Forme could possibly get (remember what happened with Arceus and Draco Meteor?). Maybe it ends up getting Earth Power, or *gasp* Heat Wave of all things.
 
Say the counter dies... What you gonna do? Lose?
No, and that's exactly the point. There are ways to get around pokemon without having a 100% "oh but what if he has HP Fighting???" counter to them, how many times must people say this before it's actually widely understood?
 
White Herb may actually become a useful item if Skymin becomes popular, Intimidate would also add to popularity.
I kind of think this is almost like saying the same thing of Shed Shell and Wobbuffet. I don't really expect White Herb to become that popular, but if it does it'll only become a part of the "overcentralization" argument.
 

Aldaron

geriatric
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Are we still discussing its potential tier status ?_?

Let's save it for play testing guys!

Let's talk about cool theorymon regarding its sets instead.

I'm not really seeing a Life Orb Swords Dance Seed Bomb Return HP Fire set as a practical "surprise" set anymore. I mean, I just don't see people "countering" this with high special defense Pokemon.

I think people will just strive to beat it with Ice Sharders and Scarf Pokemon, and I don't see that set helping Shaymin against anything specifically.
 

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