Pokemon Platinum - The definitive thread: Mach 3 (Competitive Discussion)

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
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lol so it looks like Octillery can Bounce.

Not bad, not bad at all.

Interesting is that Swinub can learn Superpower but Azurill can't, while both their final forms can. I wonder if you can only get some tutor moves as prevos?

Electivire gets Magnet Rise. LOL good luck countering it with Dugtrio now...
 
Magnet Rise Lucario? LOL..I mean Luxray learning it is a bit weird..now Lucario . Not that I'm complaining :P.
 
MAGNET RISE REGISTEEL PLEASE!

Also, I'm surprised no one has checked Skarmory. Knock Off would be great on it.
 
With Magikarp having bounce we can finally push it up into OU =p.
I was just wondering if you all thought that these changes would open up or narrow the amount of pokemon regularly seen in the OU?
 
I just checked it: Jolteon can learn Magnet Rise too... wow.. its kinda weird how nearly every Electric-Pokemon gets it now =/
 

Raj

CAP Playtesting Expert
Since it seems that some moves have changed throughout the series (Outrage to 120 BP with D/P, Hypnosis to 60% with Platinum), can someone check Tailwind on the off chance that it's more than 3 turns? That would be a good thing to fix with Platinum...
 
I just checked it: Jolteon can learn Magnet Rise too... wow.. its kinda weird how nearly every Electric-Pokemon gets it now =/
Weird.. it's not like all electric Pokemon can use electromagnetic force against the gravity to levitate :\.. on a competitive side.. second fastest Magnet Riser that can also Sub and BP is cool :).
 
I wish there was a real defensive (pure) Electric Pokemon that could make better use of it.

Ampharos is the closest thing to a defensive electric. Which is sad, because its defenses are 90/70/90.
Does it get magnet rise? Probably not.
 
Anybody here knows if Ambipom learns icy wind? It takes a lot of time to transfer pokemon to me and I can't do it now
 

Taylor

i am alien
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Gyarados improved dramatically in the transition from RSE to DP, so it's very difficult to further improve something that already gained so much. I find it difficult to understand why anyone would want to use Bounce with the additions that Gyarados obtained in the DP generation. Ice Fang + Life Orb already deals with Celebi well enough, although Taunt combined with the previous needs for Gyarados to overthrow Celebi would be perfect; just so Reflect, Thunder Wave or Leech Seed don't ruin your chances to sweep. However, Waterfall and Ice Fang has little coverage and could backfire.

Besides, with or without Bounce, that doesn't stop the likes of Vaporeon switching in to spoil Gyarados' plans.
 
I would hardly call Skarm a 100% counter to Staraptor... Close Combat is a 3HKO on typical Adamant-Scarf set. That's not bad, considering something like Weezing walls it better. Choice Banded Adamant 'raptor is hitting 52% minimum. I'm not 100% sure if Heatwave really is worth using. This is all just Theorymon though, so, I could be completely off. <.<

Also, I agree on what Taylor has said about Gyarados. It's hard to improve on it, seeing as all the amazing weapons it has now.

I like that Altaria got Outrage. Altaria needed a little more power, and, DD/Outrage is a welcome strategy for it.

If someone has the resources, can they possible check the tutors on Cresselia, Deoxys, Milotic, Roserade, Spiritomb?
 

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
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Gyarados improved dramatically in the transition from RSE to DP, so it's very difficult to further improve something that already gained so much. I find it difficult to understand why anyone would want to use Bounce with the additions that Gyarados obtained in the DP generation. Ice Fang + Life Orb already deals with Celebi well enough, although Taunt combined with the previous needs for Gyarados to overthrow Celebi would be perfect; just so Reflect, Thunder Wave or Leech Seed don't ruin your chances to sweep. However, Waterfall and Ice Fang has little coverage and could backfire.

Besides, with or without Bounce, that doesn't stop the likes of Vaporeon switching in to spoil Gyarados' plans.
Gyarados 1 DD 252 +Atk Outrage on 252/252 +Def Vaporeon:

44-52%.

Neutral Def:

48-57%

Kind of depressing, but a solid 2HKO with Life Orb, or a secong DD. Unless Vappy carries HP Elec, Gyarados wins this fight. Too bad a confused DDGyarados is very, um, bad.
 

Jimbo

take me anywhere
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Well a 3HKO isn't very good considering Skarmory has Roost and Close Combat only has 8 PP.
 
No...for our sake don't restart it. I mean, the joke is starting to die now.
(No, I'm not the one who deleted it)
Too late. And for the love of Arceus, it wasn't intended as a joke! Male Combee are considered fully evolved. Plus, Combee is faster than Vespiquen (base 70 speed). And now that it has Endeavor, it has *GASP OMG* a somewhat USEFUL moveset!
 

Jimbo

take me anywhere
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Too late Jibbles lol...

I'm in the process of getting the National Dex, almost there :D then I'll check those pokes you asked me to. Of course I couldn't just edit the data for the pokes in to get the Dex, it can't be that easy. Oh well.

Need less than 20 now :)
 

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
Deck Knight, remember that Vaporeon often carry Protect so Outraging (or Bouncing) against one is going to be potentially futile.

I dunno Taylor, a 127BP move with a 30% para chance from 383 Atk isn't the worst option in history even if does take two turns. It won't see much use but I wouldn't be surprised if somebody came up with a quirky little set based around it. BulkyGyara with Bounce and Toxic Spikes support sounds fun for a start. But yeah, point taken...it's a second rate move at best.
 
If someone has the resources, can they possible check the tutors on Cresselia, Deoxys, Milotic, Roserade, Spiritomb?
I tried the speed form of deoxys and it gets zen headbutt knock off and trick from the first tutor if I recall correct... maybe the attack form will get the punches who know....by the way anyone knows about icy wind ambipom??
 
So far known tutor moves.
Thanks to Stellar:

Code:
Palkia:
- Mud Slap
- Aqua Tail
- Outrage
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Twister
 
Dialga:
- Mud Slap
- Iron Head
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Iron Defense
- Twister
 
Mamoswine:
- Mud Slap
- Superpower
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Endeavor
- Icy Wind
 
Celebi:
- Mud Slap
- Ancient Power
- Signal Beam
- Earth Power
- Seed Bomb
- Zen Headbutt
- Trick
 
Azelf:
 - Zen Headbutt
- Mud Slap
- Signal Beam
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Fire Punch
- Trick 
- Knock Off
 
Jirachi:
- ThunderPunch
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Mud Slap
- Ancient Power
- Trick
- Iron Head
- Iron Defense
- Signal Beam
- Icy Wind
 
Altaria:
- Mud Slap
- Outrage
- Twister
- Heat Wave
- Air Cutter
- Ominous Wind
 
Venomoth:
- Signal Beam
- Twister
- Air Cutter
- Zen Headbutt
- Ominous Wind
 
Dusknoir: 
- Mud Slap
- Icy Wind
- ThunderPunch
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch
- Ominous Wind
- Trick
- Sucker Punch
 
Drifblim:
- Mud Slap
- Rollout
- Icy Wind
- Ominous Wind
- Air Cutter
- Trick
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
 
Entei:
- Mud Slap
- Iron Head
- Heat Wave
 
Meganium:
- Mud Slap
- Outrage
- Ancient Power
- Seed Bomb
- Fury Cutter
 
Clefable:
- Mud Slap
- Rollout
- Endeavor
- Signal Beam
- Bounce
- Icy Wind
- ThunderPunch
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Trick
- Knock Off
 
Jynx:
- Mud Slap
- Signal Beam
- Icy Wind
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Trick
 
Arcanine:
- Mud Slap
- Iron Head
- Heat Wave
 
Absol:
- Mud Slap
- Super Power
- Bounce
- Fury Cutter
- Icy Wind
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
I skipped the snowpoint move tutor for all of these.


Vileplume: Gastro Acid, Seed Bomb


Raichu: ThunderPunch, Knock Off, Mud-slap, Rollout, Signal Beam

only signal beam and knock off


Floatzel: Dive, Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Mud-slap, Aqua Tail
Lapras: Dive, Icy Wind, Zen Headbutt, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, Outrage, Ancientpower, Signal Beam
Rapidash: Bounce, Heat Wave
Ampharos: Fire Punch, ThunderPunch, Outrage, Signal Beam
Flareon: Mud-slap, Superpower, Heat Wave
Lopunny: Fury Cutter, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Mud-slap, Endeavor, Bounce
Delcatty: Icy Wind, Zen Headbutt, Sucker Punch, Mud-slap, Rollout



Typhlosion: Fury Cutter, Fire Punch, ThunderPunch, Mud-slap, Rollout, Heat Wave



Poliwrath: Dive, Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Vacuum Wave, Mud-slap
Victreebel: Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Gastro Acid, Seed Bomb
Rampardos: ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Zen Headbutt, Mud-slap, Superpower, Iron Head, Endeavor, Outrage, Ancientpower, Earth Power
Persian: Icy Wind, Knock Off, Mud-slap, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb
Claydol: Mud-slap, Ancientpower, Signal Beam, Earth Power, Zen Headbutt, Trick

and a few others i've checked too.

Abomasnow: Ice Punch, Icy Wind, Mud-slap, Outrage, Seed Bomb
Aerodactyl: Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Twister, Heat Wave
Arceus: Dive, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, Ominous Wind, Zen Headbutt, Trick, Mud-slap, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, Outrage, Ancientpower, Signal Beam, Earth Power, Twister, Iron Defense, Heat Wave
Aggron: Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, Mud-slap, Rollout, Superpower, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, Endeavor, Outrage, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Iron Defense
Alakazam: Fire Punch, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Zen Headbutt, Trick, Knock Off, Signal Beam
Ambipom: Fire Punch, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Mud-slap, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb, Bounce
Arbok: Aqua Tail, Gastro Acid, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb
Ariados: Sucker Punch, Signal Beam, Bounce
Armaldo: Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Mud-slap, Superpower, Aqua Tail, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Iron Defense
Articuno: Icy Wind, Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Mud-slap, Ancientpower, Signal Beam, Twister
Azumarill: Dive, Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Knock Off, Mud-slap, Rollout, Superpower, Aqua Tail
Bastiodon: Mud-slap, Iron Head, Outrage, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Iron Defense
Beautifly: Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Signal Beam, Twister
Beedrill: Endeavor, Fury Cutter, Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Knock Off
Bellossom: Gastro Acid, Seed Bomb
Bibarel: Mud-slap, Rollout, Superpower, Aqua Tail, Dive, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind
Blastoise: Mud-slap, Rollout, Aqua Tail, Outrage, Signal Beam, Iron Defense, Dive, Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Zen Headbutt
Blaziken: Mud-slap, Superpower, Bounce, Heat Wave, Fury Cutter, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Vacuum Wave, Knock Off
Blissey: Mud-slap, Rollout, Endeavor, Icy Wind, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Zen Headbutt
Breloom: Fury Cutter, ThunderPunch, Vacuum Wave, Mud-slap, Superpower, Seed Bomb
Can someone add these to the front page? thanks.

I'm happy to see Holt getting magnetrise. My Annoyer jolt could just have some nice effects.
 

Raj

CAP Playtesting Expert
There's probably alot of other places I could post this, but since people seem to think Dragonite is gonna suck now, I ran some calculations as a wall breaker...

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Naughty
170 Att/ 124 Sp/216 Sp Att
~Superpower
~TBolt
~Ice Beam/Fire Blast
~Draco Meteor

Superpower against standard Blissey- 101-118% OHKO
Thunderbolt to Bulky Gyara- 125-148% OHKO
Ice Beam to Gliscor (no Sp Def/252 HP)- 172-203% OHKO
Draco Meteor to Zapdos (252 HP)- 75-89% 2HKO (1 w/ SR up)
Draco Meteor to Celebi (252 HP)- 66- 77% 2HKO
Fire Blast to same Celebi- 72-84% 2HKO
Draco Meteor to Cresselia- 55-65% Meh..
Thunderbolt to Vaporeon- 56-66% (add 10% to each for Draco Meteor) 2HKO
Ice Beam to Hippowdon (252 HP)- 75-89% 2HKO
Draco Meteor to same Hippowdon-83-98% 2HKO (1 with Stealth Rocks up)
Fire Blast/Tbolt to Skarm- no need to calculate OHKO

I've been tweaking this to take full advantage of Dragonite's stats. Naughty>Mild because the EVs give it 3-4 more points in each Att/Sp Att. Speed EVs give it 227 (Gliscor runs 226, Bulky Gyara 223). Also, the EVs provided guarantee the kill on Blissey (beat that 'Mence : P) with Superpower.

This is essentially BOAH- but better. There's no need to rely on Substitute and Focus Punch to handle Bliss because Superpower takes care of that. Boltbeam gives it coverage on the usual counters, and Draco Meteor hits hard on just about everything.
 

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