DP Porygon-Z

Porygon-Z analysis

[SET]
name: Sub Salac
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Nasty Plot
move 3: Tri Attack
move 4: Hidden Power Water / Dark Pulse / Thunderbolt
item: Salac Berry
ability: Adaptability
nature: Modest
evs: 6 HP / 128 SpA / 124 SpD / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]

<p> Porygon-Z has always been faced with a dilemma. With Nasty Plot, it packs fearsome power. However, with 90 base speed, it is fairly easy to outrun and revenge kill. Agility boosts its speed, but then it cannot get past dedicated walls. This set remedies this problem. </p>

<p> Porygon-Z is a fearsome special attacker, and as such, forces quick switches to special walls. Using this free turn, you have two options. If your opponent has a Blissey, you should Nasty Plot first. This will lead your opponent to believe it is a regular Nasty Plotter, and they will likely Thunderwave you. This will allow you to set up a Substitute on them. You can Nasty Plot a second time as they break your substitute. After two Nasty Plots, you should be able to 2HKO it. Most opponents will not Thunderwave again, thinking you will Substitute. If you Nasty Plot, then Substitute, then Nasty Plot, then Tri Attack, then Substitute, you will beat every Blissey with a Salac Boost. You might even walk away with a Substitute depending on their reaction to your first Tri Attack. Flamethrower/Toxic Blissey has no chance, as it takes tow hits to break one of your Substitutes. Take advantage of this, and you should very easily win the game.</p>

<p>Against a more offensive opponent, you should Substitute first. When they send in a faster pokemon, you can substitute as they break your previous substitute. Repeat once more, and you will be at 1/4 HP, and have a Salac boost. You will more than likely outrun them, so you can either Nasty Plot, or kill them off, leaving you with +1 speed and a Nasty Plot, or +1 speed and a Substitute. Either of these options are very dangerous and will allow Porygon-Z to rip holes in your opponent's team. Timid Scarf Heatran comes to mind as a good pokemon to exploit. Don't try this in the face of priority moves. Just hit them and switch out. </p>

<p> It is difficult to get good type coverage with two moves. This problem is compounded when one of them is a normal move. However, Tri Attack and Hidden Power Water, while a strange combination, is only walled by Empoleon and Shedinja, who are very rare. Hidden Power Water deals massive damage to Tyranitar, Heatran, and can even OHKO Gengar after a boost with some prior damage. Another hidden power that preys on weakness both Tyranitar and Heatran share is Ground. It also hits Jirachi and Metagross, but this leaves you a sitting duck against Gengar and Rotom. This is not recommended. Normal and Electric is decent, hitting most steels for neutral except Magnezone and Steelix, but boosted Tri Attacks still hurt them. and Normal and Dark works too, if you fear bulky Ghosts ruining your sweep. Being walled by Tyranitar and Heatran isn't a very good idea, as they are very common, so I strongly recommend Hidden Power Water unless you've got highly efficient means of removing them. </p>
 
Instead of lowering your Sp. Attack EVs, place the spare 6 in Defense or something and use a 30 HP IV to make your HP divisible by 4.

edit: prob'ly should've checked pory-z's base HP before I said that

Why Timid?
 
310 HP is not divisible by 4, Anti... it comes out to 77.5 HP subs. 312 HP, however, is... D'OH, nvm, I'll just put 6 HP, right now I have 313.

I put Timid because a lot of scarfed pokemon tend to run more than 279 speed nowadays... there are a few scarfed positive base 80s, and neutral base 90s.

I will do some more testing, but Modest might be better... Timid is just what I used at the time I made this up, when Garchomp was allowed.
 
This is definately better than other options.

You might want to mention what speed it hits after Salac, which is 459, tieing +natured 90 Spe Pokemon like Lucario, Roserade. Outspeeds Adamant ScarfChomp (not that it matters anymore).

Another thing, Thunderbolt is not the superior option. I say Dark Pulse is, because of things like Gengar but mostly because that Adaptibility Tri Attack has 80 Base Power, only 15 less than Thunderbolt against most steels. Dark Pulse also hits Steel/Psychics neutrally but with a handy flinch rate.

HP Fighting or HP Fire could also work, Fighting for Steels and Rocks, Fire for priority attacking things like Scizor + Lucario. Really, there's a bunch of options for the last slot, that maybe don't need slashes, but could use a spot on the analysis.

As far as the set comments go, they are very very good. Really explains how to use the set, not just a vague understanding.
 

cim

happiness is such hard work
is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Thunderbolt hits practically no Normal resist for SE damage, averaging only 15 BP more than Tri Attack on most Steels and Rocks. At least Dark Pulse will hit Ghosts SE or HP Fire hitting Steels. Ice Beam is a pretty meh move on this Z.

I don't think Timid is necessary, really.
 

Caelum

qibz official stalker
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I'm going to go test this out but it seems pretty good. I did a similar thing with Azelf once so I see no reason why it wouldn't work on PZ.

Just thought that it might be worth mentioning (since others suggested that I do a similar thing in my peer edit) that this set could work really well with a CB Dugtrio. CB Dugtrio could pick off those annoying T-Tar's, weakened Metagross, Jirachi, Blissey, Empoleon (if you go with Dark Pulse), etc. Might wanna just throw a random message in there.
 
I've actually seen a few Blissey lately, so I thought I'd mention that 128 Sp. Def. EVs enables the Sub to always survive Ice Beams from Blissey and Cresselia.
 
@ Caelum. I threw it into the "type coverage" paragraph. Good idea.

@ Paranoiddrone: the original spread had SpD EVs, however, most Blissey have Seismic Toss, and most Cressilia have Psychic.
 

Aldaron

geriatric
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Skiddle do not take this down, if you delete it I will undelete it lol. The whole point of the creative moveset project was to get the worthy sets on the site.

Relevantly, however, I think the last slot can be a mass / situation. I can feasibly see it running any of Thunderbolt, Dark Pulse, Ice Beam, Psychic or some Hidden Power.

It would really be dependent on the team, and I think the set should should emphasize the advantages and disadvantages of each.
 
Well, my team as a whole really sucks, and I can't get it to work. However, Porygon-Z itself is doing very, very well.

EDIT: I changed my team around to handle annoying new threats like Shaymin and Scizor. Now Porygon-Z is totally raping. I set up on a Blissey as described, then I killed it, and killed a zapdos and a vaporeon, and did 85% to a Forretress before it went down. He didn't have any priority moves... just scarfed zapdos. Late game if you can remove Scizor or Lucario you can tear them to pieces. Or, you can be smart and get your first kill with a substitute intact.

EDIT 2: I met quite a few blissey today that lacked Seismic Toss and had Flamethrower/Toxic instead. Because a couple of times I lost against Blissey by 11-17%, I think that being able to beat Flamethrower Toxic Blissey all the time is a pretty good goal. Seismic Toss Blissey can be beaten, but it requires a fair bit of mindgames... Here is a tweaked EV spread that makes it so that 80 SpA EVd Flamethrower never breaks the sub:

Modest: 6 HP / 160 SpA / 124 SpD / 220 Spe

Timid: 6 HP / 152 SpA / 124 SpD / 228 Spe

The first spread hits 271 speed, outrunning common pokemon that aim for 270, and Heracross, Kingdra, etc. 406 Spe after the boost.

The second hits 300 speed, outrunning all base 100s, and hits 450 Spe after the boost.

Usually I'm more of an all out power person, often choosing the attack boosting natures over speed. However, in this situation, I am thinking that Timid is the better choice. +4 Tri Attack guaranteed 2HKOs the Bold versions of Blissey, which is still by far the most popular nature. Calm Blissey is often used without Seismic toss, so the special defense EVs all but guarantee you will get off that third Nasty Plot, sealing the 2HKO on it.

However, Modest nature all but ensures you will 2HKO the toughest Calm Blissey, doing 52.07% minimum to it. I am unsure. Is the threat of being revenge killed by neutral base 90s a problem? Probably not, as Lucario will be ExtremeSpeeding you, and Roserade always runs Timid. The only other problem with Modest is that Timid Scarftran will be able to revenge kill you. However, without Stealth Rock up, you will never OHKO it unless you have 6 boosts. with 4 boosts, you've only a 58% chance of killing it, with SR present. I suppose to nullify this threat, max speed could be used. You would even outrun Electrode. (ha ha)

It is interesting to note that the Modest version has a bit more Special Attack than the 6/252/252 Timid spread I had originally. I am strongly leaning towards Modest now.

EDIT 3: For Modest with max speed, use 6 HP / 128 SpA / 124 SpD / 252 Spe . This results in a 9 point special attack loss, but if you're concerned about being revenge killed by Timid Scarftran, this is the spread for you.
 
Ok, I brainstormed something else last night... I couldn't sleep for some reason.

Hidden Power Water.

Yes. I am totally serious. Hidden Power Water hits problem pokemon like Tyranitar and other Rock types that resist Normal. It also hits HEATRAN. It gets near perfect coverage with Normal attacks. Depending on how much it does to Tyranitar, Heatran, and Gengar, I may actually put it as one of the main options.

I would edit the above post again but this thread is slipping.


Anyways I am off to class.
 

cim

happiness is such hard work
is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Then you're walled by Empoleon, silly. Why would you ever want to be walled by something so common and threatening?

Yeah, Hidden Power Water is a pretty good idea in theory. Go try it. Just remember that if the opponent isn't weak to Water that Tri Attack will do more, even on Steels.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Well I'd actually think a bit more about Hidden Power Fighting or Ground.

I also think this needs some Pursuit support in general to keep Ghosts from blocking any efforts whatsoever. The set seems to work well in general and I won't bash this down as SubSalac is always a good set. It's just the choice of what to do when you're only STAB doesn't pair well with other types I guess. Otherwise I'm looking forward to the finalized version of this.
 
Yeah, I am ATTEMPTING to test out different moves in the last slot, however, most teams are so ridiculously Heatran weak that I never get a chance to use Porygon-Z before I win. And don't forget every team has a Scizor which is always anxious to switch in.

HP Ground sounds like a plan. Metagross would go down much quicker, and so would Jirachi. Again, ghosts are a pain. Considering I have Weavile on the team, I could most likely afford to run Hidden Power Ground.

skiddle switched in Porygonz (lvl 100 Porygonz).
Pointed stones dug into Porygonz.
Porygonz lost 12% of its health.
Celebi used Recover.
Celebi restored 49% of its health.
---
Test14 switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Porygonz used Substitute.
Porygonz lost 25% of its health.
Porygonz made a substitute!
---
SQUIRTLE0213 has entered the room.
Blissey used Protect.
Blissey protected itself!
Porygonz used Nasty Plot.
Porygonz's special attack was sharply raised.
---
skiddle: is this a flamethrower bliss
Test14 switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Porygonz used Nasty Plot.
Porygonz's special attack was sharply raised.
---
Heatran used Hidden Power.
The substitute took damage for Porygonz!
Porygonz's substitute faded!
Porygonz used Substitute.
Porygonz lost 25% of its health.
Porygonz made a substitute!
---
Heatran used Hidden Power.
The substitute took damage for Porygonz!
Porygonz's substitute faded!
Porygonz used Substitute.
Porygonz lost 25% of its health.
Porygonz made a substitute!
Porygonz's Salac Berry raised its speed!
---
Porygonz used Hidden Power.
It's super effective!
Heatran lost 100% of its health.
Test14's Heatran fainted.
---
skiddle: eureka
Test14 switched in Celebi (lvl 100 Celebi).
Porygonz used Tri Attack.
Celebi lost 100% of its health.
Test14's Celebi fainted.
---
Test14 switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Porygonz used Tri Attack.
Machamp lost 100% of its health.
Test14's Machamp fainted.
---
Test14 switched in Shaymin-s (lvl 100 Shaymin-s).
Porygonz used Tri Attack.
Shaymin-s lost 100% of its health.
Test14's Shaymin-s fainted.
---
Test14 switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Porygonz used Tri Attack.
A critical hit!
Blissey lost 100% of its health.
Test14's Blissey fainted.
skiddle wins!
Test14: gg
skiddle: gg sir
Test14 has left the room.
SQUIRTLE0213 has left the room.
skiddle switched in Porygonz (lvl 100 Porygonz).
Blissey used Flamethrower.
Porygonz lost 21% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 2% of its health.
---
Blissey used Protect.
Blissey protected itself!
Porygonz used Substitute.
Porygonz lost 25% of its health.
Porygonz made a substitute!
---
Porygonz used Nasty Plot.
Porygonz's special attack was sharply raised.
Blissey used Flamethrower.
The substitute took damage for Porygonz!
---
Porygonz used Nasty Plot.
Porygonz's special attack was sharply raised.
Blissey used Flamethrower.
The substitute took damage for Porygonz!
Porygonz's substitute faded!
---
Porygonz used Substitute.
Porygonz lost 25% of its health.
Porygonz made a substitute!
Blissey used Toxic.
But it failed!
---
Porygonz used Tri Attack.
A critical hit!
Blissey lost 100% of its health.
Zhabroah's Blissey fainted.
---
Zhabroah switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
Porygonz used Tri Attack.
It's not very effective...
Metagross lost 100% of its health.
Zhabroah's Metagross fainted.
---
skiddle: gg
Zhabroah switched in Gengar (lvl 100 Gengar ?).
Gengar used Thunderbolt.
The substitute took damage for Porygonz!
Porygonz's substitute faded!
Porygonz used Substitute.
Porygonz lost 25% of its health.
Porygonz made a substitute!
Porygonz's Salac Berry raised its speed!
---
Gengar used Thunderbolt.
The substitute took damage for Porygonz!
Porygonz's substitute faded!
Porygonz used Hidden Power.
Gengar lost 100% of its health.
Zhabroah's Gengar fainted.
---
Zhabroah switched in Gliscor (lvl 100 Gliscor ?).
Porygonz used Tri Attack.
Gliscor lost 68% of its health.
Zhabroah's Gliscor fainted.
---
Zhabroah switched in Electivire (lvl 100 Electivire ?).
Porygonz used Tri Attack.
Electivire lost 100% of its health.
Zhabroah's Electivire fainted.
---
Zhabroah switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Gyarados's intimidate cut Porygonz's attack!
Porygonz used Tri Attack.
Gyarados lost 100% of its health.
Zhabroah's Gyarados fainted.
skiddle wins!
Zhabroah has left the room.
skiddle: gg
 

Aldaron

geriatric
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
OK. I want you to make this move 4:

Thunderbolt / Dark Pulse / Ice Beam / Hidden Power Water / Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fighting.

I then want you to to add a paragraph (/edit appropriately) with a one sentence reason for any of those. You can choose the order. Also Chrisisme, Water + Normal has great coverage in OU, and being walled by Empoleon is fine lol. I'd much rather be able to hit Gengar, Tyranitar and Heatran hard than hit Empoleon hard.

This set, btw, is awesome. I was demolishing teams using Hidden Power Water and occasionally Thunderbolt yesterday. I didn't get a chance to try out the others, but that's your job Skiddle ^_^
 
Thanks Aldaron, were you using the 124 SpD EVs? I found that any team that uses Wishbliss pretty much loses once you bring this bad boy out.

Editing first page, and I'm going to remove all the quotes.

EDIT: Is there a way to get Hidden Power Fighting with 31 Speed IVs? If not, I would rather not put it on there. Outrunning Timid Scarftran was invaluable for my success.
 
Removed Hidden Power Fighting... and changed the bracket things. Thanks guys, this is shaping up to be a really good set.
 

Havak

I'm the Best. You're a Towel.
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I never like seeing four moves in one move-slot on a set.

Hidden Power Ground really doesn't need to be on the actual set, give it a mention in set comments only.
 
OK. I want you to make this move 4:

Thunderbolt / Dark Pulse / Ice Beam / Hidden Power Water / Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fighting.

I then want you to to add a paragraph (/edit appropriately) with a one sentence reason for any of those. You can choose the order. Also Chrisisme, Water + Normal has great coverage in OU, and being walled by Empoleon is fine lol. I'd much rather be able to hit Gengar, Tyranitar and Heatran hard than hit Empoleon hard.

This set, btw, is awesome. I was demolishing teams using Hidden Power Water and occasionally Thunderbolt yesterday. I didn't get a chance to try out the others, but that's your job Skiddle ^_^

Just following orders, Havak, but if you would like I can change it. I never realy thought of Hidden Power Ground as a good idea, but some other people suggested it.
 

Havak

I'm the Best. You're a Towel.
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I'm not sure if Aldaron actually meant listing all four on the actual set... but if he did I'm pretty sure we always try to stick to three at maximum. Obviously, if he didn't mean for them all to be mentioned on the actual set, all being mentioned in set comments as alternatives is fine.

Tri Attack and Hidden Power Water, while a strange combination, is only walled by Empoleon and Shedinja, who are very rare. Hidden Power Water deals massive damage to Tyranitar, Heatran, and can even OHKO Gengar after a boost with some prior damage. Normal/Ground gets extra wallop on Heatran, Jirachi and Metagross, but leaves you a sitting duck against Gengar and Rotom.
That's the reason why I don't think it deserves to be mentioned on the set, since it will leave stranded against common threats like Gengar, while hitting other Pokémon harder like that isn't as necessary.

I'll see what others think, though.
 
I already changed it, saying this:

Other hidden power that prey on weakness both Tyranitar and Heatran share include Ground and Fighting, but these leave you a sitting duck against Gengar and Rotom. This is not recommended.
 

Aldaron

geriatric
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Nope I clearly meant having slashitis for the fourth slot, because the bottom line is that it can viably run any of them.

Slashitis to me is when you have so many slashes that various combinations of them can change the purpose of the set.

In this case, having the various moves for the fourth slot simply changes what it can and cannot beat; the purpose is the same.

I'm still advocating putting as many moves there as are viable.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top