Platinum Walling Combinations

[Star Shaper]

With the advent of Platinum's additions to move pools, walling combinations are sure to change. We need new ways to handle the addition of Bullet Punch to Scizor, Ice Punch and Thunder Punch to Lucario, and Salamence who can be a DD Outrage variation or remain the old DP Specsmence for a surprise factor. These are only a few of the new threats Platinum, but the new movesets redefine counters to certain pokemon. We need new innovative ways to keep certain threats from plowing down our teams.

So perhaps we can start a discussion here. What are new ways the experts at smogon have found to defend themselves? It would be most beneficial to this topic if you could post what you think the biggest threats of Platinum are and how you defend yourself against them, wether it be not letting them in or just walling them.

 

[D3FAULT]

This is, in my opinion, one of the best, if not THE best, Scizor counter in the game. Not only does it stop him from killing your whole team, it almost certainly guarantees Scizor's death. The only way this doesn't work is if they get a crit, or have nice prediction skills and SuperPower/Brick break you as you switch it in:

(copy & paste from my post I made in Creative Movesets thread)

Name: Fuck Scizor!
Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP/48 Spd/208 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt
- Filler
- Filler

This set does what it's name says: Fucks Scizor. He has exactly enough speed EVs to outspeed minimum speed Scizor by 1 point so that he cannot SuperPower you, or U-turn out before you can hit him. Magnezone takes about 50% HP from an Adamanet +2 LO Bullet Punch, but imo it's worth it to completey screw him over with HP Fire. With Scizor on just about EVERY team, I think this guy is worth it. If I ran my calcs right, HP Fire should OHKO Max HP minimum SpDef Scizor 100% of the time.

 

[darkie]

er, what if Scizor has 8 Spe EVs or more..

Anyway, I don't really use "walls". Call me crazy, but I've found that Careful CBTar and Impish RestTalk Gyarados work pretty well together to take on the most important threats in DPPt, while still threatening the opponent's team. These two, plus key resistances on my other guys pretty much lets me do whatever I want to without really caring about what the opponent is trying to do.

 

[Not Scicky]

Scizor hardly ever runs speed darkie :S

At least from what I've seen

 

[TeaBag]

This is, in my opinion, one of the best, if not THE best, Scizor counter in the game. Not only does it stop him from killing your whole team, it almost certainly guarantees Scizor's death. The only way this doesn't work is if they get a crit, or have nice prediction skills and SuperPower/Brick break you as you switch it in:

(copy & paste from my post I made in Creative Movesets thread)

Name: Fuck Scizor!
Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP/48 Spd/208 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt
- Filler
- Filler

This set does what it's name says: Fucks Scizor. He has exactly enough speed EVs to outspeed minimum speed Scizor by 1 point so that he cannot SuperPower you, or U-turn out before you can hit him. Magnezone takes about 50% HP from an Adamanet +2 LO Bullet Punch, but imo it's worth it to completey screw him over with HP Fire. With Scizor on just about EVERY team, I think this guy is worth it. If I ran my calcs right, HP Fire should OHKO Max HP minimum SpDef Scizor 100% of the time.

That's not so much a wall as it is a Scizor counter. Besides, most Scizor run enough speed to beat minimum speed Cresselia. I'm surprised a 4x resisted move does 50%, though. lol

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

Must've meant 15, not 50. (It's actually 12-14% -- 18-21% with Technician.)

EDIT: Wait, that kind of mistake wouldn't make sense... @_@

 

[Not Scicky]

Pretty sure it's 2x resist :S

Also, I just ran a calc, that said Maggy was only taking like, 68 damage on average from a +2 Tech'd LO Bullet Punch...

(Edit: Ohlol, you posted while I was writing this :S)

So I don't know where you're getting 50% from

Timid with 140 Spe outruns the Scizor Teabag mentioned, and with 208 SpA EV's still reaches a respectable 347 SpAtk, and with the rest in HP it gets 321, which is enough to take about 5 of those bullet punches...

as for the other moves, I'd suggest maybe Toxic or Magnet Rise, and Metal Sound or Tri Attack (Neutral damage on swampert)

 

[futuresuperstar]

I would run Thunderbolt, Hidden Power [Fire], Thunder Wave, and something else, like Tri Attack, Substitute, or even Light Screen. Thunder Wave gives you a great little trick against Heatran, Skymin, and Zapdos, as well as gives you something to do against a Kingdra or Salamence stuck on Outrage. I'd probably use Light Screen to help make sure that Skymin's Earth Power and Zapdos' Heat Wave don't ruin you.

 

[Star Shaper]

Magnezone 4x Resists steel.

Walling everything has been impossible since D/P. In my opinion, walling combinations don't always have to wall everything, as long as your sweepers/revenge killers can deal with weaknesses. I used to use Gliscor/Celebi/Vaporeon with Weavile. Celebi's Thunder Wave meant that Salamence among other sweepers couldn't come in for free, Gliscor to deal with Lucario/Heracross, Vaporeon dealt with Infernape. Gengar/Azelf were dealt with via sacrificing the weakest piece of my defensive core and revenge killing with Weavile. Gliscor/Celebi worked together to wall most physical threats with a tad bit of trouble with Machamp's confusion. It's biggest weakness was FlinchKiss and Yanmega. It still works in Platinum to some extent, however Roost SD Scizor really screws it over if it gets in on Celebi without getting paralyzed.

In Platinum however, I find the need for Zapdos in some way. I also find Dual Screen Bronzong to be valuable, setting up a screen for whatever you predict switching in. ScarfHeatran is really getting hard to stay away from, adding Revenge Killing and resistances as well as a fire immunity to walling combinations. That and Zapdos/Heatran resist every type with the exception of Rock, which Bronzong helps with.

 

[Venom]

Just a note: Magnezone + Gyarados resist everything in the game

Like darkie, I don't use much walls on most of my teams (barring my stall teams). I find things like Zapdos or Rotom-H being able to keep things such as Scizor and Lucario in check, while a Careful Tyranitar taking the special hits with it's pretty amazing SpDef and boost.

 

[1059860]

This is, in my opinion, one of the best, if not THE best, Scizor counter in the game. Not only does it stop him from killing your whole team, it almost certainly guarantees Scizor's death. The only way this doesn't work is if they get a crit, or have nice prediction skills and SuperPower/Brick break you as you switch it in:

(copy & paste from my post I made in Creative Movesets thread)

Name: Fuck Scizor!
Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP/48 Spd/208 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt
- Filler
- Filler

This set does what it's name says: Fucks Scizor. He has exactly enough speed EVs to outspeed minimum speed Scizor by 1 point so that he cannot SuperPower you, or U-turn out before you can hit him. Magnezone takes about 50% HP from an Adamanet +2 LO Bullet Punch, but imo it's worth it to completey screw him over with HP Fire. With Scizor on just about EVERY team, I think this guy is worth it. If I ran my calcs right, HP Fire should OHKO Max HP minimum SpDef Scizor 100% of the time.

Rather give it Shed Shell to escape from Dugtrio. And my Scizor has speed EV so I'll SuperPower you.

 

[Phizzlax]

If you're worried about Scizor being faster than min you can obviously shoot for other speed numbers, no different than any other pokemon specifically designed to outrun something (like MAGNEZONE trying to outrun Skarm. Some Skarm run more speed to outrun Magnezone, some Magnezone account for this possibility by running a lot more speed, etc etc).

 

[gorm]

zapdos is still a much better wall than magnezone and beats scizor 100% of the time minus SD qa or something, even then it lives with sr and ohkos back with HW. whoever says scior doesn't ever run speed is a rookie btw.

as far as walling combos, zapdos and machamp actually play well off eachother, especially if zapdos runs twave/heat wave/tbolt roost, and machamp abuses twave with dynamicpunch.

zapdos's best switches are tar/bliss and machamp comes in on both relatively easily minus the fact that twave is a bitch.

 

[Scofield]

Zapdos and swampert, I've been using it before zapdos became cool ~_~

Zapdos and champ gorm? I gotta test that out, I've been meaning to use champ since I found out how food it is O_O

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Hmm yes I have to second what Gorm has said about Zapdos and Machamp. I've been using it since the start of D/P.

 

[Taylor]

When I personally decided that I would use Magnezone in one of my teams, I thought I may as well take it to the next level. And so, I developed my initial Magnezone spread into a Choice Scarf varient; one which survives Choice Band Superpower, too. The primary reason behind this was, not only does Magnezone get rid of those pesky Scizor, thanks to the welcomed boost in Magnezone's speed, I can revenge kill all Lucario; except, of course, Choice Scarf varients, ones which I personally don't find threatening anyway. Additionally, it's a prominent outcome when Gengar, Infernape, or Starmie, for example, unexpectedly fall to a powerful Thunderbolt.

The most intriguing combination I've read so far has got to be Gorm's Zapdos & Machamp duo.

 

[cim]

Can we take this opportunity to say that "walling combinations" as most people know them absolutely suck? Really. The resistance based ones (Steel + Anything) can be beaten by anything with basic type coverage. The "physical/special" ones reinforce a "walling mentality" that encourage people to play "how can I stop this" rather than "how can I win", and they still suffer the same problems as "mutual resists"...

While I'm here though Zap + Hari > Zap + Champ because of Thick Fat and better defenses.

 

[newbioform]

Zapdos + Machamp was very effective indeed when I used it. Not only do they resist almost everything but both are powerful enough to go on offence straight from the switch-in. Dynamic Punch + Stone Edge rips through teams with alarming frequency (confusion hax of course).

Zapdos + Swampert is also good but toxic screws it over.

 

[bugmaniacbob]

Is this any good for a wall?

Moltres @ Leftovers/Power Herb
Nature: Bold
Ability: Pressure

FLAMETHROWER
HIDDEN POWER GROUND
ROOST
TOXIC/SAFEGUARD/ROAR/SOLARBEAM

EVs: 252 HP, 200 SDef, 48 SAtk, 8 Def

I think I mentioned, in previous posts, how Ho-oh seemed to be able to crush the 'Holy Trinity' of Heatran/Scizor/Shaymin. This is essentially a watered-down version of that. STAB Flamethrower crushes Scizor and Shaymin, HP Ground does away with Heatran and Roost heals off the damage.

• Scizor: Moltres resists Bullet Punch, X-Scissor and Superpower but takes fair damage from Quick Attack and Pursuit. STAB Flamethrower takes care of it if it tries to stay in play.
• Shaymin: Unlike Zapdos, Moltres does not resist Air Slash, however it has a 4x resistance to Seed Flare and has STAB on Flamethrower. It is unlikely that Shaymin will come out on top.
• Heatran: ScarfTran can come in on Flamethrower, but unlike Zapdos, Moltres takes neutral damage from Hidden Power Ice and can KO with HP Ground. Hidden Power Rock is apparently being used occasionally nowadays, so caution is advised.

As well as these, it can also take on Lucario and sometimes non-bulky Tyranitar and Metagross. Fire Spin is utterly useless, so don't use it. In the last slot (filler) one could try a Solarbeam + Power Herb combination to take out bulky waters that decide to switch in, or one could try Toxic, or Safeguard, or Roar, or something.

EDIT: Edited parts are in BOLD

 

[Syberia]

Stealth Rock ruins that, and why are you running Fire Spin, with its shaky accuracy and tendency to not do anything except trap something which can otherwise beat Moltres.

If you want a Fire-type, use Heatran, and if you want a Flying-type with access to a Fire move, use Zapdos.

 

[petrie911]

Rather give it Shed Shell to escape from Dugtrio. And my Scizor has speed EV so I'll SuperPower you.

Magnezone@Shed Shell/Leftovers
Timid 220 Sp/252 sAtk/38 HP
-Thunderbolt
-HP Fire
-Magnet Rise
-Sub/Filler

Outruns all Adamant Scizor and does 108%-127% damage to 252/0 Scizor. Scizor needs 68 sDef EVs to have even a chance of survival, and 224 sDef EVs to guarantee it. Meanwhile, Adamant Scizor's +2 LO Quick Attack does at most 33.9% damage, an extremely unlikely 3HKO. Metagross needs 220 Sp EVs to outspeed you, so Magnet Rise lets you outlast him, as Meteor Mash from CBgross is a 4HKO with SR, and Tbolt and HP Fire can both 3HKO. Easily traps and kills Scarftran that are locked into something it resists, and can do quite a number on Jirachi, although they ususally pack U-turn. The only Steel type it has no ability to trap and kill is Lucario. This should really be the new Steel Killer set in the analysis, as it can trap and kill nearly every steel in OU.

One other thing to consider is ScarfTon, which has enough speed to trap and revenge kill Modest Scarftran 85% of the time after SR damage. Unfortunately, this requires HP Ground, so it's not going to be OHKOing Scizor, and it comes at the cost of less power and significantly less defenses.

Oh, and if you're worried about Dugtrio, just pack Porygon2.

 

[Syberia]

Not worth it, as no one runs Modest on Scarf Tran anymore.

 

[petrie911]

Not worth it, as no one runs Modest on Scarf Tran anymore.

Oh. Well then, nevermind about Scarfton. Looks like you'll have to run Scarftrio, then.

 

[Banana292]

I find Spiritomb and Weezing to be an awesome combination. The shiny forms are even the same colour scheme :D

Gengar, Azelf, Alakazam etc are owned by spiritomb. Heracross, TTar, Lucario etc are all owned by Weezing. :D

Obviously something like Starmie would be helpful for Mixape.

 

[MetaNite]

I like defensively beefed Forretress, and special defense oriented Swampert.

Together they have no weakness, and walls switch a lot but Forretress can rapid spin those SR giving you trouble.

Scarf Magnezone is a amazing. Before Heatran started running +natured, Magnezone could effectively revenge kill it too.