Uber Stall RMT

[ace15]

This is, as the title might suggest, an uber stall team. I've won quite a few battles with it, although I lose quite alot from thinks such as a critical hit or Will-O-Wisp missing, Thunder hitting in the sun and paralyzing etc. I also have have trouble with bulky Calm Minders, such as a Mewtwo with Recover-Calm Mind-Shadow Ball-Aura Sphere. I hope I didn't overdo the descriptions. Anyway, on to the team..

Dialga @ Choice Scarf *** The Destroyer
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Overheat

The lead; He stops enemy Kyogres right from the start, although I don't use him for that - I use him because no-one else is suitable to be leading. Timid is for outspeeding Adamant DD Rayquazas, Doexys-A and at least tieing with base 90 Choice Scarf users. No Aura Sphere because: Giratina, Giratina-O and Shedinja are immune to it, I'm not going to be staying in on Tyranitar, Darkrai dies from a single Draco Meteor to the head, Weavile dies when you poke it and a Draco Meteor has more power then a 2x Aura Sphere. The only thing it would be useful for is other Dialga, but then they can just switch to a Ghost or Psychic. Dragon Pulse is useful for almost-dead things, cleanups or when I don't want to rely on 90% accuracy. Thunder is there for Kyogre and Manaphy. Manaphy is only threatening in the Rain, so if it IS raining, Thunder is there to stop it. Overheat is for Scizor, Metagross, Forretress, Skarmory, and all the other steels running around. It's also as strong as Draco Meteor in the sun. This takes care of all the things mentioned previously, including Darkrai, weakened Mewtwos and random threats which need Draco Meteoring. Oh and it also walls Kingdra.

Forretress @ Leftovers *** The Tactician
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP, 72 Atk, 66 Def, 120 SpDef
IVs: 0 Speed
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin

Love the typing - giving it all those bonuses of Steel without the major Ground and Fighting weaknesses. The EVs give me max HP for walling; 72 Attack guarantees a 2HKO against Darkrai without Stealth Rock and 120 SpDef lets me survive three Timid Darkrai Dark Pulses with Leftovers. The rest go in Defense to help take physical hits. This, aside from being a backup Darkrai counter, counters Tyranitar quite well with a SE Gyro Ball after they Dragon Dance. This is my switch-in to Scizor, Deoxys-E and every wall without a fire move including Lugia and Giratina. Resists the Grass Knot/Ice Beam combo too. The previously mentioned Deoxys-E cannot do anything to me while I slowly kill it with Rapid Spin or 2HKO it with Gyro Ball. Also obviously keeps away Spikes and the like. No recovery is fixed with the next pokemon..

Blissey @ Leftovers *** The Obese
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def, 64 SpAtk, 192 SpDef
Calm Nature (+SpDef, -Atk)
- Wish
- Toxic
- Protect
- Flamethrower

The infamous Blissey, walling.. everything without a physical move, pretty much. Toxic is my only defense against Latios/Latias/Lugia, specifically the Calm Mind versions. Wish heals Dialga and Forretress, although it can of course heal any pokemon if I have time to spare in a slow-paced battle. If Latias can't come in for some reason, this walls Palkia and Kyogre. It also takes care of Mewtwos. Flamethrower was chosen for it's STAB in the sun, which should be constantly out. The 64 SpAtk was for 1HKOing something in the sun, but I forgot what; I think it was a 1HKO on the Analysis Scizor. Protect is amazingly useful, scouting Choice pokemon and grabbing extra Toxic Damage/Leftovers recovery.

Latias @ Soul Dew
EVs: 108/204 SpAtk/198 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -SpAtk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Calm Mind
- Grass Knot
- Roost

Another special wall; Latias walls Kyogre, non-scarfed Palkias, and CMGiratina-A and -O, which as Jibaku pointed out, my team is weak to. 196 Speed outruns other Latias who only use 192. Also can come in on weakened Groudon/Tyranitars. Dragon Pulse is for Gira-O, Gira-A and Palkia while Grass Knot is for Groudon, Kyogre, and under 25% Tyranitars. Roost for recovery, Calm Mind for sweeping or CMing with a threat. Not much to say about her.

Giratina - A @ Leftovers *** The Impervious
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 220 HP/252 Def/ 28 SpDef/8 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Will-o-wisp
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Roar

As the name suggests this is near impossible to get through, although Taunt absolutely ruins it. The HP is a leftovers number, the 8 speed lets me WoW/Roar slow physical threats before they go. The leftover EVs are put in SpDef to help against them. Attacking moves are unneeded with Toxic Spikes, and there absence gives me a 2/3 chance to stop a physical stat-upping threat when I Sleep Talk. Blocks Rapid Spin, which is very important to do. Stops Rock Polish/Sword Dance/Choice Band Groudon and Ho-oh mainly, although it's useful for everything except Choice Specs Ice Beam/Dragon Pulses.

Groudon @ Leftovers *** The Breacher
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP/228 Atk/28 Def
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpAtk)
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Another physical wall who also carries the RestTalk combination. Very much needed for stopping Tyranitar, Garchomp, Rayquaza and Metagross. It is an extremely hard hitter as you can imagine, with 228 Attack EVs, a positive nature and 150 Base Attack. Those EVs were chosen to survive a Life Orbed Dragon Dancing Adamant Rayquaza and deal 65% with Dragon Claw - KOing it after SR and Life Orb damage are factored in. Stopping such a threat usually leaves Groudon with 10% health though. Of course if Groudon fails this task due to residual damage, Dialga can come in and send the green dragon out of the skies into the ground below. If it's Jolly and outspeeds Dialga, Groudon's chance of dieing would be quite slimmer and the whole problem avoided. Anyway this description is supposed to be about Groudon and not Rayquaza, so back to Groudon. This sets up the sun again and scares away Tyranitar, giving me back my Leftovers recovery.


Threat List:

Arceus is excluded from here for obvious reasons.
Darkrai: Groudon is the best switch in I have, taking nuetral damage from Dark Pulse and Focus Blast while not being afraid of Dark Void or Trick and being able to 2HKO back with EQ. Giratina also happily absorbs the Dark Void, however the other moves Darkrai has at its disposal are extremely destructive to it. Dialga can come in on a Nasty Plot or Trick and Draco Meteor Darkrai for a 1HKO.
Deoxys: Without a Fire move, Forretress reliably counters this. Dialga can Dragon Pulse it for a 1HKO too.
Deoxys-A: Forretress can counter this is the sun is shining and thus reducing Thunder's accuracy to 50%, while Dialga can try to come in on something such as a Shadow Ball and outspeed and 1HKO. Blissey works if they are lacking physical moves, and so does Latias if they lack Ice Punch.
Deoxys-D: Forretress spins away its spiky dreams, plus can set up its own spikes. Blissey can toxic it to completely destroy it, too. If it Agilitys, Forretress's Gyro Ball just got super powerful. Toxic Spikes are probaly the most reliable counter though. Blissey also walls this if they lack any physical moves.
Deoxys-S: Forretress completely walls it, being able to Rapid Spin and set up my own Spikes/SR.
Dialga: Groudon destroys the Bulk Up versions. Special sets are walled by Blissey. Mixed versions are troubling if Latias isn't at full health, although by sacrificing my own Dialga along with Groudon's help, I should be able to kill it.
Giratina: If it doesn't have Calm Mind, Forretress can set up in its face. If it has Calm Mind, Latias can come in and kill it.
Garchomp: Groudon survives 1 Sword Danced/2 Outrage/EQs and, although not KOing, severely dents it. After Groudon dies, if it's still Outraging, Dialga can finish it off.
Groudon: Giratina is the only thing which can actualy stop it, and if Will-O-Wisp misses twice, I'm in trouble. My own Groudon can take a chunk off its health and Dialga can finish it off, though.
Ho-oh: Giratina easily PP stalls out Punishment and Sacred Fire. However if Giratina dies, I'm quite likely to lose. Stealth Rock destroys it though.
Kyogre: Latias completely stops it, and so does Blissey. Dialga with Thunder also destroys it. Giratina can come in on Surfs too if it's needed.
Latias: Blissey with Toxic is the best counter, as it absorbs non-boosted attacks easily while not giving Latias a chance to set up 4+ CMs because of Toxic. Forretress also works if it's lacking HP Fire, and Gyro Ball is a very painful experience for it.
Latios: Blissey with Toxic is the best counter, as it absorbs non-boosted attacks easily while not giving Latias a chance to set up 4+ CMs because of Toxic. Forretress also works if it's lacking HP Fire, and Gyro Ball is a very painful experience for it.
Lugia: Blissey's Toxic destroys it. Besides that, if it's raining then Dialga's Thunder takes care of it. Forretress can also set up in it's face.
Manaphy: Dialga with Thunder destroys it, and if the rain isn't falling, Manaphy isn't a threat so it's a win-win.
Mew: Giratina roars it away and doesn't mind the Hypnosis. Groudon is a much more offensive Sleep Talking counter to it, if it has Taunt. Dialga also chases it away if Sleep Clause has been activated.
Mewtwo: Blissey walls it if it lacks physical moves. Forretress also works if it doesn't have that fire move. Calm Mind versions are troubling, although Latias might be able to wall it.
Palkia: Latias might be able to stop it, while Blissey can handle it if the sun is shining.
Kingdra: Dialga also gives it a very hard time to get by. Groudon can switch in to Outraging ones and cut off the rain while destroying it.
Rayquaza: Groudon survives a DD LO Outrage and can Dragon Claw back, OHKOing it if SR is up. Dialga stops DD versions with an Adamant nature, and it also ruins the SD versions. Blissey stops any special versions.
Wobbuffet: Toxic Spikes will ruin it, and so will Blissey Toxic.
Heatran: Blissey and Latias wall it reliably.
Blissey: Forretress sets up if Blissey lacks Flamethrower, while Groudon scares it away if it lacks Ice Beam. My own Blissey can heal things while an opponent's Blissey is out.
Tyranitar: Groudon stops it and can absolutely destroy it with Earthquake. Forretress is a semi-reliable back-up plan if Groudon isn't around. Dialga can finish off weakened ones.

 

[sora13]

This team is really quite solid and pretty reliable. However, you should put spikes over Stealth Rocks, as it will allow you to get the KO from Groudon on Garchomp with Spikes.

 

[Komodo]

your giratina is going to problems with a taunt, darkrai or mewtwo
can ruin you and set up a calm mind or two, this could allow a full sweep of your team, i suggest changing roar to shadow ball or dragon pulse

a mewtwo with the taunt, calm mind, aura sphere, shadow ball / psychic set could cause you problems, i would look over your team to find a suitable counter

 

[ace15]

This team is really quite solid and pretty reliable. However, you should put spikes over Stealth Rocks, as it will allow you to get the KO from Groudon on Garchomp with Spikes.

I doudt I will get 5 turns to set up Spikes, especially if its all put on a single Pokemon. I wouldn't say Garchomp is problematic enough to replace the invaluable Stealth Rock for. Plus Groudon does 62.01% - 72.91% to a 4 HP 0 Def Garchomp with Dragon Claw, that's a guaranteed 2HKO unless I set up 3 layers of Spikes and 2 layers of Toxic Spikes; Very unlikely to do that before Garchomp makes his appearance.

your giratina is going to problems with a taunt, darkrai or mewtwo
can ruin you and set up a calm mind or two, this could allow a full sweep of your team, i suggest changing roar to shadow ball or dragon pulse

a mewtwo with the taunt, calm mind, aura sphere, shadow ball / psychic set could cause you problems, i would look over your team to find a suitable counter

I would lose to Darkrai/Mewtwo with or without an attacking move, and you're supposed to be suggesting counters, not me. Plus I know I'm CM Mewtwo weak - I said it in the RMT..

 

[FROSTYMOFO]

Gira, Blissy, Forretress...This team would make me cry. It looks sooo fustrating to take down...But,maybe a Dusknoir with Earthquake, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, and PainSplit/WoW could give u problems...U could counter it with hypnosis or the rarely used torment...But Im not sure it would be worth your while.
Also, how in the world did u get those shinies with such excellent natures? U sir, are extremely lucky. =/

 

[ace15]

Gira, Blissy, Forretress...This team would make me cry. It looks sooo fustrating to take down...But,maybe a Dusknoir with Earthquake, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, and PainSplit/WoW could give u problems...U could counter it with hypnosis or the rarely used torment...But Im not sure it would be worth your while.
Also, how in the world did u get those shinies with such excellent natures? U sir, are extremely lucky. =/

Err, a Dusknoir? Your kidding, right? The chances of me encountering that are are about the chance of battling a Choice Specs Mudkip in Ubers. And this is a Shoddy Battle team..

 

[Jibaku]

I really dislike the reliance on Shedinja to counter threats that you otherwise can't cover. You can't rely on spinning away the Spikes everytime...what if Giratina comes out? What if they successfully got an SR and then sends in Specs Ogre before you could spin it away? Now one member has to die. Also your reliance on the Sun to keep Sheddy past Scizor is maybe not reliable at all-if you were to switch Sheddy in to counter Kyogre, then there's no Sun and you'll just get Pursuited by the Scizor coming in while it laughs at your HP Fire.

Both Giratina-A and Giratina-O can pose serious problems for this team. Being immune to Rapid Spin, they can CM up on your team and eat it alive. ScarfDialga isn't going to counter Gira-A at least-Draco Meteor does quite a bit to Giratina but then your SA will be too low to deliver a finishing blow, and it will just Rest away your damages. Gira-O does >50% to Dialga with Dragon Pulse and even more with Aura Sphere, so be very careful, and don't neglect that despite the fact it doesn't have Leftovers, it can still run a Rest/Talk set. From what it appears Gira-A seems to be more threatening to your team because you can't even break it down from the physical side, whereas Gira-O can be 3HKOed with Dragon Claw (or 2HKO with rocks, and you're obviously not going to swap Groudon into Gira-O though).

I'd take consideration in removing Sheddy for Latias. Latias will stop CM Gira-A completely. It won't counter Gira-O though because Dragon Pulse does >50% to it (and Latias will get 2HKOed even if it CMs provided it took SR damage on the switch in) and you'll need quite a bit of SDef to actually make her a good counter to CM Gira-O. Nevertheless it will stop Gira-O from otherwise completely obliterating your whole team, because Latias will put Gira-O's health low enough to make it pretty much unusable for the rest of the match...provided you managed to get a Stealth Rock up or something. You might need to worry about Kyogre later, though, but at least it mostly fixes your issue with the demonic dragons.

 

[Matthew]

My main concern for this team is actually Mix-OTina. If it is carrying Calm Mind-Dragon Pulse-Earthquake-Filler then it almost completly hurts your entire team without much concern for it's self.

Though the normal Calm Mind-OTina is still a worry.

As Jibaku said Latias in place of Shedy as it stops nearly all special attacks and can provide support to the team. Since a lot of teams carry Tina or some ghost rapid spin is kind of pointless but it's worth it on non-ghost carrying teams.

Relying on weather isn't very good for any team (Rain Dance and Trick room could be considered exceptions) especially if you need weather up too counter a pokemon. Just another reason to get rid of shedy.

Paint me stupid but some Rayquaza's now carry aqua tail (or is it waterfall) to counter Groudon easier and with that Metagross can explode on entry. So maybe you could put some more EV's into Def to take those threats head on.

Taunt decimates Giratina, you could replace Dragon Pulse over Roar if you don't want to switch out after being taunted.

Blissey is ok looking, she stops Scizors and Metagrosses switching in, which is the main point I'd assume. Though RP Groudon can set up on her, but you can stall it out with toxic (assuming it hits)

Otherwise this looks solid

 

[ace15]

I really dislike the reliance on Shedinja to counter threats that you otherwise can't cover. You can't rely on spinning away the Spikes everytime...what if Giratina comes out? What if they successfully got an SR and then sends in Specs Ogre before you could spin it away? Now one member has to die. Also your reliance on the Sun to keep Sheddy past Scizor is maybe not reliable at all-if you were to switch Sheddy in to counter Kyogre, then there's no Sun and you'll just get Pursuited by the Scizor coming in while it laughs at your HP Fire.

Both Giratina-A and Giratina-O can pose serious problems for this team. Being immune to Rapid Spin, they can CM up on your team and eat it alive. ScarfDialga isn't going to counter Gira-A at least-Draco Meteor does quite a bit to Giratina but then your SA will be too low to deliver a finishing blow, and it will just Rest away your damages. Gira-O does >50% to Dialga with Dragon Pulse and even more with Aura Sphere, so be very careful, and don't neglect that despite the fact it doesn't have Leftovers, it can still run a Rest/Talk set. From what it appears Gira-A seems to be more threatening to your team because you can't even break it down from the physical side, whereas Gira-O can be 3HKOed with Dragon Claw (or 2HKO with rocks, and you're obviously not going to swap Groudon into Gira-O though).

I'd take consideration in removing Sheddy for Latias. Latias will stop CM Gira-A completely. It won't counter Gira-O though because Dragon Pulse does >50% to it (and Latias will get 2HKOed even if it CMs provided it took SR damage on the switch in) and you'll need quite a bit of SDef to actually make her a good counter to CM Gira-O. Nevertheless it will stop Gira-O from otherwise completely obliterating your whole team, because Latias will put Gira-O's health low enough to make it pretty much unusable for the rest of the match...provided you managed to get a Stealth Rock up or something. You might need to worry about Kyogre later, though, but at least it mostly fixes your issue with the demonic dragons.

Well, Blissey can wall SpecsOgre if it took some damage before (lowers Water Spout's power), but I understand what you meen. The HP Fire on Shedinja is really just incase the sun is shining and they brought Scizor out; If the sun isn't shining I would just switch out to Forretress as they switch Scizor in. Of course I wouldn't know to do that until my Focus Sash breaks once from a Scizor Pursuit. I agree I have a CM Giratina-A and Giratina-O weakness, however if they're running RestTalk and Calm Mind, they only have one moveslot left. If its Dragon Pulse, Shedinja walls it while if it's Shadow Ball Blissey is immune to it. If they switch in the CM Giratina right after they SR and I don't have a chance to Rapid Spin, it's a huge problem, like you said. Removing Latias leaves me Scarf Palkia weak more-so then Kyogre imo, as a SpecsKyogre can be dealt with by Dialga while Palkia can 2HKO everything on the team. Those two are much more common then CMing Giratinas.. maybe there's another replacement which takes care of Giratina while not leaving me exposed to Kyogre/Palkia. Thanks for your input though.

My main concern for this team is actually Mix-OTina. If it is carrying Calm Mind-Dragon Pulse-Earthquake-Filler then it almost completly hurts your entire team without much concern for it's self.

Though the normal Calm Mind-OTina is still a worry.

As Jibaku said Latias in place of Shedy as it stops nearly all special attacks and can provide support to the team. Since a lot of teams carry Tina or some ghost rapid spin is kind of pointless but it's worth it on non-ghost carrying teams.

Relying on weather isn't very good for any team (Rain Dance and Trick room could be considered exceptions) especially if you need weather up too counter a pokemon. Just another reason to get rid of shedy.

Paint me stupid but some Rayquaza's now carry aqua tail (or is it waterfall) to counter Groudon easier and with that Metagross can explode on entry. So maybe you could put some more EV's into Def to take those threats head on.

Taunt decimates Giratina, you could replace Dragon Pulse over Roar if you don't want to switch out after being taunted.

Blissey is ok looking, she stops Scizors and Metagrosses switching in, which is the main point I'd assume. Though RP Groudon can set up on her, but you can stall it out with toxic (assuming it hits)

Otherwise this looks solid

But you see, if/when they switch a wall Giratina into Forretress, I can just set up Toxic Spikes/SR. It lures Giratina out and can set up on him, so even though most teams carry a Giratina, Forretress is still useful. And like I said to Jibaku, my whole team doesn't orbit around the sun (although Earth does), only Shedinja really can use the Sun and it's not detrimental if the sun isn't shining - I feel you over-exaggurated my dependance on the sun. Waterfall is weaker then Outrage, so it isn't much of a problem, although I'll look into how many EVs I need to survive an Aqua Tail (but why would they use Aqua Tail with its low accuracy over Waterfall?) Yeah, Taunt ruins Giratina but what exactly am I going to be staying in on that's Taunting me? Mewtwo is tickled by Dragon Pulse after a couple of Calm Minds, Darkrai has a super-effective STAB attack and Mew is setting up while I'm Dragon Pulsing it; All of these have better options to switch to, that's why I feel I don't need Dragon Pulse. Plus without Roar RP Substitue Groudon can set up on me rather easily. Groudon can set up on any Blissey, so I don't understand.. what's your point?

 

[FROSTYMOFO]

Err, a Dusknoir? Your kidding, right? The chances of me encountering that are are about the chance of battling a Choice Specs Mudkip in Ubers. And this is a Shoddy Battle team..

Yet again my lack of knowledge of the metagame and shoddy cause me to sound like an idiot. I need to just stop posting. >_<

 

[Jibaku]

Well, Blissey can wall SpecsOgre if it took some damage before (lowers Water Spout's power), but I understand what you meen. The HP Fire on Shedinja is really just incase the sun is shining and they brought Scizor out; If the sun isn't shining I would just switch out to Forretress as they switch Scizor in. Of course I wouldn't know to do that until my Focus Sash breaks once from a Scizor Pursuit. I agree I have a CM Giratina-A and Giratina-O weakness, however if they're running RestTalk and Calm Mind, they only have one moveslot left. If its Dragon Pulse, Shedinja walls it while if it's Shadow Ball Blissey is immune to it. If they switch in the CM Giratina right after they SR and I don't have a chance to Rapid Spin, it's a huge problem, like you said. Removing Latias leaves me Scarf Palkia weak more-so then Kyogre imo, as a SpecsKyogre can be dealt with by Dialga while Palkia can 2HKO everything on the team. Those two are much more common then CMing Giratinas.. maybe there's another replacement which takes care of Giratina while not leaving me exposed to Kyogre/Palkia. Thanks for your input though.

Adding Latias won't make you Scarf Palkia weak. In fact it will help against Scarf Palkia as well. Some Scarf Palkias carry Fire Blast which cuts through Shedinja, and unless it has Focus Punch Scarf Palkia can't really do anything to Bliss (except for Aqua Tail, but when it's stuck onto Aqua Tail you can go to Giratina or something). Shedinja is just far too unreliable to use in this metagame imo. Specs Kyogre can't be dealt with Dialga- Specs Spout does like 90% (no kidding) to Dialga which is ridiculous. Latias will help you with Specs Kyogre, and with Blissey it won't get past the duo anytime soon. She will definitely not leave you exposed to the Kyogre/Palkia combo unless they start running something weird, but if you're going by that logic then I can say Sheddy can't counter any of them because they could carry Toxic.

 

[ace15]

Adding Latias won't make you Scarf Palkia weak. In fact it will help against Scarf Palkia as well. Some Scarf Palkias carry Fire Blast which cuts through Shedinja, and unless it has Focus Punch Scarf Palkia can't really do anything to Bliss (except for Aqua Tail, but when it's stuck onto Aqua Tail you can go to Giratina or something). Shedinja is just far too unreliable to use in this metagame imo. Specs Kyogre can't be dealt with Dialga- Specs Spout does like 90% (no kidding) to Dialga which is ridiculous. Latias will help you with Specs Kyogre, and with Blissey it won't get past the duo anytime soon. She will definitely not leave you exposed to the Kyogre/Palkia combo unless they start running something weird, but if you're going by that logic then I can say Sheddy can't counter any of them because they could carry Toxic.

I was referring to Palkia being able to Spacial Rend the entire team except Blissey, as Spacial Rend does 60% to Latias minimum, and being able to Focus Punch/Aqua Tail Blissey. I suppose the benefits of adding Latias outweigh the losses, although Kyogre's Ice Beams are quite scary now if Blissey is under 35%. I just hope that Blissey can keep coming in to wall Palkia and Kyogre, as everything else is destroyed by them plus something like RP Groudon can force it out before Wish heals me.

EDIT: Do you happen to know offhand what the best HP Fire IV spread for Latias is?

 

[Jibaku]

I suggest not using HP Fire for more than anything but surprise purposes. Latias loses one Speed IV, first of all, meaning that it now loses to to other Lati@s (and don't -ever- neglect that some people run absolute max on this), and CM Kyogre can actually stall HP Fire Latias out (DPulse doesn't do enough to 3HKO it), and obviously you die to CM/Roar Ogre (uncommon and only used by me and umbarsc, but it's there).

 

[ace15]

I suggest not using HP Fire for more than anything but surprise purposes. Latias loses one Speed IV, first of all, meaning that it now loses to to other Lati@s (and don't -ever- neglect that some people run absolute max on this), and CM Kyogre can actually stall HP Fire Latias out (DPulse doesn't do enough to 3HKO it), and obviously you die to CM/Roar Ogre (uncommon and only used by me and umbarsc, but it's there).

Couldn't I just give it 1 more speed EV? But okay, no HP Fire for Latias.

EDIT: Added in Latias, although after editing the threat list, what worries me is that things such as Deoxys-A, Rayquaza, Bulk Up Dialga, and Garchomp became more threatening as I don't have the superb switch in Shedinja used to be.

 

[reachzero]

I remember facing this team on the Ubers ladder, and I recall being very frustrated by it as you stalled me from here to kingdom come. However, I should point out that the most common switch into Latias is Metagross, and that your current set has no way of handling Metagross. CM Latias has always worked great for me, setting up on Mewtwo or Kyogre and sweeping whole teams. I recommend Thunder over Grass Knot, since Dragon Pulse hits Groudon and T-Tar very hard with a CM or two anyway, and Thunder does serious damage to both Scizor and Metagross, especially once you've CMed up.