*sigh*
I might have to rework a couple of teams. Disappointed to see Flygon in it. :(
Otherwise, I'm scared. D:
I might have to rework a couple of teams. Disappointed to see Flygon in it. :(
Otherwise, I'm scared. D:
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I'm not quite sure uxie and mesprit are needed as defensive presences. Slowbro and Spiritomb, along with weezing currently and maybe pinsir can wall fighters fine, making uxie and mespirit just icing on the cake for stopping fighters, (which in my eyes would be their primary defensive responsibility as psychic has ass resisiances.
Hmm, so apparently Flygon, Rhyperior and Empoleon will all be tested in the new UU. Go check the new thread to see for yourself.
Was this a mistake or are we just checking incase they drop back down again?
Was this a mistake or are we just checking incase they drop back down again?
Hippopotas Suicide Lead anyone?
Hippopotas @ Focus Sash
Impish
252 Hp, 252 Def, 4 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Yawn
- Protect
His 68/78 hp and defense aren't terrible, and with all this spread they hit a decent 340/280 apiece. His moves are chosen so as to let him do at least something - set up SR or sleep an opponent. One perk of using Hippopotas is that it is slower than Abomasnow, so it keeps the weather if it's a face-off.
Hippopotas @ Focus Sash
Impish
252 Hp, 252 Def, 4 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Yawn
- Protect
His 68/78 hp and defense aren't terrible, and with all this spread they hit a decent 340/280 apiece. His moves are chosen so as to let him do at least something - set up SR or sleep an opponent. One perk of using Hippopotas is that it is slower than Abomasnow, so it keeps the weather if it's a face-off.
Since Abamosnows down in UU now it probably wont be worth it.
Especially all the rain teams and it seems sunny day is getting some love now too.
Especially all the rain teams and it seems sunny day is getting some love now too.
Low speed also means you're extremely vulnerable to Taunt, which is, if the current UU is any indicator of, a very common move.
Meh, it still gets sandstorm up though? :/
what about larvitar?
well I don't see SS as being and issue as state by Chris is me the essentially fighting 5-6. And there auto weather starter will die pretty fast. and in this metagame it looks like you will have to change in a lot to get the weather you want. seeing as rain and sun teams are used to running a few pokemon with the move sunny day or rain dance. so once they change the weather how or you going to get it back?
hippo? no wait his dead already.
so the only weather teams to worry about are hail, rain, and sunny.
rain should beat fire. fire should beat hail. hail should beat rain. should is like 9 outta 10 times. so if this plays out barring some team members don't get bumped up to BL or OU then this should be a pretty nice balanced metagame as far as weather teams.
and this could secure SS as the main weather in OU, seeing as if you could run a decent hail team in UU why would you do it in OU with all those beasts of Pokemon?
well I don't see SS as being and issue as state by Chris is me the essentially fighting 5-6. And there auto weather starter will die pretty fast. and in this metagame it looks like you will have to change in a lot to get the weather you want. seeing as rain and sun teams are used to running a few pokemon with the move sunny day or rain dance. so once they change the weather how or you going to get it back?
hippo? no wait his dead already.
so the only weather teams to worry about are hail, rain, and sunny.
rain should beat fire. fire should beat hail. hail should beat rain. should is like 9 outta 10 times. so if this plays out barring some team members don't get bumped up to BL or OU then this should be a pretty nice balanced metagame as far as weather teams.
and this could secure SS as the main weather in OU, seeing as if you could run a decent hail team in UU why would you do it in OU with all those beasts of Pokemon?
Larvitar gets Guts, Pupitar gets Shed Skin. The only option is Hippopotas...
I also agree with the rest of your post...
Sadly for Hippopotas, even if its slower than Abomasnow to get SS up, Abomasnow will survive to later bring the hail back, wheras after the first turn or two, Hippopotas won't be able to most likely.
I'm curious as to how Blaziken would fair here... I mean there's no Infernape to outclass it in this tier, so it can really shine, especially if hail becomes popular, since its fire and fighting moves will be murder for them, and Blaziken's offenses are big enough to put a huge dent in almost anything. And even then, it would also have the option of agilipassing if a threat comes... sounds fun.
I'm curious as to how Blaziken would fair here... I mean there's no Infernape to outclass it in this tier, so it can really shine, especially if hail becomes popular, since its fire and fighting moves will be murder for them, and Blaziken's offenses are big enough to put a huge dent in almost anything. And even then, it would also have the option of agilipassing if a threat comes... sounds fun.
No guys, I agree completely. Hippopotas is not competitively viable by any stretch of imagination, and my post was basically ridiculing the sort of extremes you would have to go to get perma-sand in UU.
that was my whole post said. perma-sand is a no no. looks like hail is the ruling weather as far as no move slots being taken up.
sand will have to use sandstorm the move if it wants to be played to the full potential.
and yes Blaziken will be a force to be reckoned with, it commands respect and every hail team should pack a way to deal with it, like mine!
sand will have to use sandstorm the move if it wants to be played to the full potential.
and yes Blaziken will be a force to be reckoned with, it commands respect and every hail team should pack a way to deal with it, like mine!
I see the Sun getting lots of attention as of late...
If only this thread were posted earlier, I could have been prepared for this RPS weather that's going to happen soon instead of having no weather...
Is anyone here planning on using Sunny Day? I'm going to change to it pretty fast, as I forsee a metagame where you can't do well without attributing your team to a weather type...
Oh, and has anyone thought of just switching Hippopotas out right away instead of leaving it in? As long as you only bring it in on a KO, it should last past all non-pursuit suing teams. However, it still leaves you at a disadvantage...
There also a move that nobody uses anymore, it's called "Sandstorm". =P
Hey, Sun and Rain have to use their move...
EDIT: Killernoob beat me to mentioning that last part... xD
If only this thread were posted earlier, I could have been prepared for this RPS weather that's going to happen soon instead of having no weather...
Is anyone here planning on using Sunny Day? I'm going to change to it pretty fast, as I forsee a metagame where you can't do well without attributing your team to a weather type...
Oh, and has anyone thought of just switching Hippopotas out right away instead of leaving it in? As long as you only bring it in on a KO, it should last past all non-pursuit suing teams. However, it still leaves you at a disadvantage...
There also a move that nobody uses anymore, it's called "Sandstorm". =P
Hey, Sun and Rain have to use their move...
EDIT: Killernoob beat me to mentioning that last part... xD
Sun and rain also have a bigger payoff... I mean, other than sand veil or a sp.def boost is there anything really abusing it? 5 turns (or 7/8 from the item that extends sandstorm, can't remember the amount it extends by) just for a sp.def boost for some of your team or to increase evasion temporarily and do a bit of residual damage to the other team doesn't seem worth it... at least with sun and rain you can have enough time to get out an amazing sweeper at double speed or something to wreck them, in which the 5-7 turns or so is more than enough.
To me, without perma-SS Sandstorm teams take quite a hit.. but I guess I'll see how that plays out for them.
To me, without perma-SS Sandstorm teams take quite a hit.. but I guess I'll see how that plays out for them.
Ludicolo in the rain in UU is going to be a massive threat imo. It is one of the best rain sweepers for OU rain teams, and in UU it will have an even easier time sweeping teams. In UU, rain sweepers such as Gorebyss and Omastar have to decide whether to run HP Electric or HP Grass, because either way they will be walled by either Mantine or Quagsire. Ludicolo can run STAB Surf and Energy Ball, Ice Beam, and then HP Electric if it so wishes.
Azumarill might be a dominating force as well, and will most likely take over TechniTop's role as a priority revenge killer. It can keep tabs on the aforementioned Blaziken and Eruption Typhlosion with its powerful Aqua Jet, which from a CB set OHKOes both.
Mismagius, I feel, has been underappreciated as an offensive threat so far. With perfect coverage between Shadow Ball and HP Fighting, as well as super effective STAB on the current special walls of UU (and being able to set up on Clefable no problem), it will be up to the Regis and Umbreon really to deal with it (all who get hit super effectively by HP Fighting). On a further note, Regice's Ice Beams fail to break its Sub after 1 CM, meaning it can set up on it very easily indeed.
Azumarill might be a dominating force as well, and will most likely take over TechniTop's role as a priority revenge killer. It can keep tabs on the aforementioned Blaziken and Eruption Typhlosion with its powerful Aqua Jet, which from a CB set OHKOes both.
Mismagius, I feel, has been underappreciated as an offensive threat so far. With perfect coverage between Shadow Ball and HP Fighting, as well as super effective STAB on the current special walls of UU (and being able to set up on Clefable no problem), it will be up to the Regis and Umbreon really to deal with it (all who get hit super effectively by HP Fighting). On a further note, Regice's Ice Beams fail to break its Sub after 1 CM, meaning it can set up on it very easily indeed.
@AOK I never said blaziken was bad or not a threat I just said hail teams might not have 6 ice pokemon more like 2 or 3. and i already stated my team which had crobat to stop it.
and rain teams have to deal with raikou.
maybe a good team will just use blaziken and raikou to deal with all the weather. blaziken for hail and sunny day and raikou for rain. and the rest of your pokes for sand... lol
and rain teams have to deal with raikou.
maybe a good team will just use blaziken and raikou to deal with all the weather. blaziken for hail and sunny day and raikou for rain. and the rest of your pokes for sand... lol
One major problem for sand and hail teams againt rain and sun teams is that that the first two are very much stalling weathers, which means that even though they get their weather merely on a switch, they can't pressure the other rain/sun team enough to keep their respective effects out. Since quite a few sandstorm resists are weak to water, that let's rain teams work so much easier, and hippo can switch in once, but unless it yawns the RDer can just rain again. Same with grass types and sun. Hail, while it has an easier time getting abomb in, risk kabutops stone edge, qwillfish explosion, or even a powerful smack from floatzel ruining his day.
Ludicolo definitely shouldn't run HP Electric unless Mantine becomes a major threat. If it does have HP Electric, Abomasnow resists all of its moves except unSTAB Ice Beam. If hail becomes really common, Ludicolo would be better off with the somewhat odd HP Fire to OHKO. If Mantine is a non-issue, Focus Blast has some nice type coverage, hitting a lot of special walls and Abomasnow for SE damage. For non-attacking moves, it can supply its own rain with Rain Dance, or offset Life Orb damage with Leech Seed.
Hmm...Ludicolo does look rather dangerous, and seems to have an answer to any counter. But I suppose we'll just have to see if it turns out to be more like Garchomp or Electivire in actual dangerousness.
Entei is actually a bigger threat than you can imagine...
Entei @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
Naive
48 Atk/208 SpA/252 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast / Eruption
- Hidden Power (Grass)
Stone Edge is obviously for things like Chansey / Mantine / Altaria, as Entei's attack is very useable. After Calm Mind, HP Grass deals with things like Quagsire or Gastrodon or others that are weak to Grass, while STAB Fire Blast HURTS!
Eruption is also an option, if Orbed, 150 Base Power rapes (earlier on) at least. Although Fire Blast is a much better option, a Specs or Scarf Eruption from Entei will also hurt like hell. Since this thing has been overlooked and called "SUCKS" by a lot of people, it may not get as many uses in the beginning, especially with Ludicolos around, but when Ludicolo gets officially banned, BLAH! You gonna try to counter this with Qwilfish?
Not to mention that this thing can also run Band sets and Burn annoyer sets...
Just like bringing him out into the lights.
Entei @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
Naive
48 Atk/208 SpA/252 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast / Eruption
- Hidden Power (Grass)
Stone Edge is obviously for things like Chansey / Mantine / Altaria, as Entei's attack is very useable. After Calm Mind, HP Grass deals with things like Quagsire or Gastrodon or others that are weak to Grass, while STAB Fire Blast HURTS!
Eruption is also an option, if Orbed, 150 Base Power rapes (earlier on) at least. Although Fire Blast is a much better option, a Specs or Scarf Eruption from Entei will also hurt like hell. Since this thing has been overlooked and called "SUCKS" by a lot of people, it may not get as many uses in the beginning, especially with Ludicolos around, but when Ludicolo gets officially banned, BLAH! You gonna try to counter this with Qwilfish?
Not to mention that this thing can also run Band sets and Burn annoyer sets...
Just like bringing him out into the lights.
Sigh...
NU should be a tier with Beedrill, raticate, plusle/minun etc. Not a place for Hypno/Camerupt, who are currently TOP tier UU pokemon. With Pokemon like Blaziken running rampant through the weak UU walls, including steelix and the like, i still dont see how this is an effective method. To make the test shorter they should see that the OBVIOUS BL pokemon stay BL before the UU tier becomes the BL tier, and the BL faux tier becomes nothing. Pokemon like Raikou barely even have checks in the BL tier, now in the UU tier, it will be near impossible to stop.
These pokemon are fresh in my mind because i play advance often still, and these pokemon STILL outclass the pokemon they did in Advance, for the most part (an exception being the odd pokemon with misplaced stats, and no stab in Advance such as Azumarill). They are not near UU Standards.
Assuming we want to keep the UU tier an Underused pokemon tier, with pokemon that cant fit in the OU metagame, I beleive we should see to it that there is no room for pokemon like Raikou, Feraligatr, Slaking etc. in this UU test. Logic: Why is Raikou in the same tier as Manectric? These pokemon can be USED in OU games fairly effectively and clearly outclass some of the fairly often used UU pokemon.
Hearing that there should only be about 5 pokemon in the BL tier makes me shudder. The reason many people still beleive Advance is the best generation is because of the balanced tiers, BL teams CAN exist there needs to be at least 30+ pokemon in the BL tier imo. And to quicken the test up, let us skip the clearly banned pokemon, and get to the debatable Pokemon. The UU/OU tiers in advance, are VERY balanced, and to do that pokemon like Arcanine were banned. Although, i do understand that the metagame has changed, and old advance pokemon are outclassed(e.g. Blaziken is outclassed by Infernape), they are still far to powerful for the UU tier.
To sum it up.....
Testing pokemon that are clearly too powerful is a waste of time, and not needed. And secondly, many, maybe even 40%+ pokemon must remain or get put into the BL faux tier, its the only possible way to balance the UU tier.
Does anyone else agree, or have some sort of view on this?
Eh, and Auto-weather is an OU thing, it does not belong in this tier >_<.
NU should be a tier with Beedrill, raticate, plusle/minun etc. Not a place for Hypno/Camerupt, who are currently TOP tier UU pokemon. With Pokemon like Blaziken running rampant through the weak UU walls, including steelix and the like, i still dont see how this is an effective method. To make the test shorter they should see that the OBVIOUS BL pokemon stay BL before the UU tier becomes the BL tier, and the BL faux tier becomes nothing. Pokemon like Raikou barely even have checks in the BL tier, now in the UU tier, it will be near impossible to stop.
These pokemon are fresh in my mind because i play advance often still, and these pokemon STILL outclass the pokemon they did in Advance, for the most part (an exception being the odd pokemon with misplaced stats, and no stab in Advance such as Azumarill). They are not near UU Standards.
Assuming we want to keep the UU tier an Underused pokemon tier, with pokemon that cant fit in the OU metagame, I beleive we should see to it that there is no room for pokemon like Raikou, Feraligatr, Slaking etc. in this UU test. Logic: Why is Raikou in the same tier as Manectric? These pokemon can be USED in OU games fairly effectively and clearly outclass some of the fairly often used UU pokemon.
Hearing that there should only be about 5 pokemon in the BL tier makes me shudder. The reason many people still beleive Advance is the best generation is because of the balanced tiers, BL teams CAN exist there needs to be at least 30+ pokemon in the BL tier imo. And to quicken the test up, let us skip the clearly banned pokemon, and get to the debatable Pokemon. The UU/OU tiers in advance, are VERY balanced, and to do that pokemon like Arcanine were banned. Although, i do understand that the metagame has changed, and old advance pokemon are outclassed(e.g. Blaziken is outclassed by Infernape), they are still far to powerful for the UU tier.
To sum it up.....
Testing pokemon that are clearly too powerful is a waste of time, and not needed. And secondly, many, maybe even 40%+ pokemon must remain or get put into the BL faux tier, its the only possible way to balance the UU tier.
Does anyone else agree, or have some sort of view on this?
Eh, and Auto-weather is an OU thing, it does not belong in this tier >_<.
The deal is, we don't KNOW what the ideal D/P/Pt UU metagame is. It never got tested properly. This ISN'T Adv anymore. The threshold will be different. If the Pokemon you list are too powerful, they will be moved to BL. However, to say they will be before testing has begun is ridiculous, and is exactly the sort of thing we want to avoid, even if it ends up being true. Banning Pokemon "obviously too powerful" destroys the point of the test, which is to stop with the assumptions and see, after testing, what is TRULY too powerful. So yes, UU will be different. However, dismissing it as a bad thing before we know for sure is silly. We owe it to the community to have a tested, balanced UU, rather than one based on Adv and theorymon. We want as many Pokemon viable as possible.
As for no auto-weather, why not? I don't understand the OU-lite argument, since UU Pokemon are played differently than those in OU, even in similar conditions.
For your first example, Blaziken would run rampant through the old UU walls like Steelix and Claydol, yes. But it won't be running rampant through the new UU walls like Milotic and Uxie. As for the old BL tier becoming the new UU tier, well, that's kind of the point. BL contained 57 Pokemon. That's more than enough for a full, balanced tier.
NU may have been the place for things like that in advance, but think about the name. Never Used. Most of the "OU" of the old UU was never seen in standard, while the old BLs are the ones that were really underused (ie, they were used, but not very much). And there's no reason we can't make a 4th tier under NU. Call it Worthless tier or something like that. That's where things like Beedrill belong.
As for the size of BL, well, it's a ban tier. One would think that the size of a ban tier should be minimized.
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