I was using cursetsteel (registeel) and it's not faring any better better in the new UU as it was in OU :(
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np: UU - A New Beginning
- Thread starter RBG
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^--Agreeing with Chris. It also counters Shaymin fairly well.
Toxic Spikes seem to be working extremely effectively in the current metagame with the decrease of Poison-type usage (well, grounded Poisons) and the ability to abuse it further with SubRoost Moltres, Substitute Froslass, Cosmic Power Clefable, Roar Glaceon, and so on. Hail Teams also make it easy to counter Calm Mind+Sub Raikou and Missy by wearing them down.
BTW: If you are using Magneton in UU, don't use the Scarf set. The only common Steel type is Registeel, who isn't more easily beaten with the Speed provided. I'd best reccomend a Specs or Life Orb set, or one that involves Substitute to protect yourself from Explosion.
Toxic Spikes seem to be working extremely effectively in the current metagame with the decrease of Poison-type usage (well, grounded Poisons) and the ability to abuse it further with SubRoost Moltres, Substitute Froslass, Cosmic Power Clefable, Roar Glaceon, and so on. Hail Teams also make it easy to counter Calm Mind+Sub Raikou and Missy by wearing them down.
BTW: If you are using Magneton in UU, don't use the Scarf set. The only common Steel type is Registeel, who isn't more easily beaten with the Speed provided. I'd best reccomend a Specs or Life Orb set, or one that involves Substitute to protect yourself from Explosion.
Yeah. I don't even know if Magneton would even be worth it with just Registeel getting use.
But then again. What do I know? I've just lost a match 6-0 and I also lost against someone who didn't know that we've restarted the UU tier! :0
But then again. What do I know? I've just lost a match 6-0 and I also lost against someone who didn't know that we've restarted the UU tier! :0
Steelix isn't uncommon either, though that's obviously harder to trap as you need both Magnet Rise and a Hidden Power that hits it for SE :s
Could I get someone to give me EVs for a SubRoost Moltres? I think I want it to look something like this:
Moltres @ Leftovers
Timid? - Pressure
??? HP / ??? Def / ??? Spe
>Substitute
>Roost
>Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
>Flamthrower / Air Slash
And uhm...yeah thanks
EDIT: Nevermind, it's on the analysis. But if anyone has experience with it or other stallers that work well in Hail with Toxic Spikes, tell.
EDIT V2:I think the best Spread for the new UU is Timid 248 HP / 86 Def / 176 Spe. These EVs allow you to outrun all non-Scarfed versions of Gallade and other base 80 Pokemon while retaining full defensive potential with the HP and Def EVs. It can switch into Gallade and Blaziken with no fear and Will-O-Wisp/Air Slash before they can do anything.
EDIT V uh 3: I've been using a Hail Stall Team recently with great success. The team involved(/involves):
>Abomasnow (Life Orb Mixed Attacker. May change to SubSeed)
>Drapion (Toxic Spikes+Whirlwind makes for a great combo. Counters Missy and Shaymin)
>Spiritomb (The Crotomb set. Works wonders with Hail+Toxic Spikes)
>Walrein (what's a Hail Team without Stallrein? I use Encore right now, but thinking of Roar)
>Moltres (great for resistances. Always beat Infernape and Gallade. SubRoost set)
>Clefable (Cosmic Power Stall set. Thinking about changing to Froslass or Glaceon/other staller)
Moltres @ Leftovers
Timid? - Pressure
??? HP / ??? Def / ??? Spe
>Substitute
>Roost
>Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
>Flamthrower / Air Slash
And uhm...yeah thanks
EDIT: Nevermind, it's on the analysis. But if anyone has experience with it or other stallers that work well in Hail with Toxic Spikes, tell.
EDIT V2:I think the best Spread for the new UU is Timid 248 HP / 86 Def / 176 Spe. These EVs allow you to outrun all non-Scarfed versions of Gallade and other base 80 Pokemon while retaining full defensive potential with the HP and Def EVs. It can switch into Gallade and Blaziken with no fear and Will-O-Wisp/Air Slash before they can do anything.
EDIT V uh 3: I've been using a Hail Stall Team recently with great success. The team involved(/involves):
>Abomasnow (Life Orb Mixed Attacker. May change to SubSeed)
>Drapion (Toxic Spikes+Whirlwind makes for a great combo. Counters Missy and Shaymin)
>Spiritomb (The Crotomb set. Works wonders with Hail+Toxic Spikes)
>Walrein (what's a Hail Team without Stallrein? I use Encore right now, but thinking of Roar)
>Moltres (great for resistances. Always beat Infernape and Gallade. SubRoost set)
>Clefable (Cosmic Power Stall set. Thinking about changing to Froslass or Glaceon/other staller)
You should try that glaceon set I put, it'd probably be even more beastly with hail activating snow cloak.
Magneton shouldn't be used to deal with registeel anyways. 252+ SPa specs'd magneton using thunder can't 2hko a 252hp/200spd (I'm assuming that's the standard, I don't really know) Registeel with lefties, it does 42-50%, so you'd have to be lucky to 2hko.
I like my scarfed magneton. It's not as easily forced out due to speed and 120 base SPa is already a lot.
Just nitpicking a few of your statements, I have seen quite bit more Staraptors than Swellows as Raptor is harder to wall, I din't play for 2 minutes it was for quite a while so it's not like 5 games and this is what I've seen, the game has gotten a great deal more offensive than before and lastly like i said these are just my opinions you don't have to agree with them.
I'm telling you guys, the point of magneton isn't even to trap steels. 120 special attack, 13 resistances. What is there to not understand?
Also scarf magneton outruns non-scarf starapter. That seems pretty important to me.
Also scarf magneton outruns non-scarf starapter. That seems pretty important to me.
Magneton@Lefties
Modest 252 satk/252 hp/6 sdef (252 satk/120 hp/138 def for maximum physical bulkiness)
Tbolt
HP whatever
Substitute
Magnet Rise
Should be the perfect Steel killing set. Switch into registeel, sub to block Twave and scout for EQ. If he does EQ, Magnet Rise. For Steelix, Magnet Rise first.
A SE HP whatever does 42.8%-50.3% to Max/Max Steelix. This is a guaranteed 3HKO, so even resting Steelix cannot survive.
Tbolt does 24.4%-28.7% to Max/Max Registeel. This is a 5HKO after leftovers, so clearly something needs to be done to counter resting Registeel.
Zap Plate--29.3%-34.5%
Life Orb--31.8%-37.4%
CSpecs--36.3%-42.7%
Since only Cspecs can barely get you a 3HKO, you're probably better off with the leftovers version and using something else to deal with resting registeel. The Leftovers nicely offset sub damage, as it takes 4 Iron heads for Registeel to break your sub.
Oh, and for the record, the difference between the two EV spreads is Registeel's Iron Head doing 7.43% max versus 7.58% max, a 2% difference. Either way, he's breaking the sub in 4 hits, so you should probably go with the greater overall bulkiness, as 50/95/70 really aren't all that bad of defenses. And, of course, you can always invest something in speed if there are certain things you want to outspeed.
So the question is which HP to use. Since we want that SE hit on Steelix, that lowers the pool to Fire, Fighting, Ground, and Water. Water and Ground give Shaymin an easy switch-in. Fire leaves you helpless against Gastrodon and Camerupt. Fighting gives you issues with Rotom and Venusaur. So they all have their ups and downs. Use the one that best fits your team.
EDIT: Obviously Magneton can be doing things other than trap steels, as 120 satk is just awesome and that resistance set is very nice. Heck, it resists every one of Raikou's standard attacks and can threaten with HP Ground. If you're going to be trapping Registeel, you're probably better off with Wynaut anyways.
Rotom is performing well in this new environment. Now, I know everyone has forgotten him thanks to Spiritomb but his typing is more important now than ever. Rotom walls the standard staraptor.Brave bird doesn't 2hko and rotom can outspeed adamant Staraptors. This is max HP/DEF + nature. Without max def rotom can still take a BB and outspeed adamant Staraptor. If switched in a U-turn rotom is taking 20%. A lot of people forget about WoW too. Nothing really likes getting burn and their are far less immunities out there compared to toxic. Screens are invaluable as well. Setting up a screen at the right time may give your sweeper a chance to power up and finish the game. Running trickscarf is fun as well, especially for a lead.
CBnine is working well. Extremespeed gives him the edge up on Blaziken. Lack of stab doesn't really matter when running off 252. Some random calcs
CBnine (adamant, 525atk) Vs. Slowbro(max HP/max DEF Bold)
ES - Avg 23%
Thunderfang - Avg 30%
Flareblitz - Avg 27%
Vs. Steelix (max HP/136 SpD impish)
Overheat - Avg 97% (1HKO 53% of the time with SR)
Flareblitz - Avg 87%
Vs. Crotomb
Flareblitz - Avg 70%
Overheat - 45% (OHKO)
Vs. Chansey
Flareblitz - Avg 95% (guaranteed 1HKO with SR)
Extremespeed - Avg 42%
I run intimidate on mine as it's a lead but with a Flash Fire boost it kills a lot of these walls except Bro but only Houndoom can break through him with ease. I like Arcanine over Blaziken because of extremespeed. Also, intimidate plus his extra defenses give more switch in opportunities. Honestly, once you break through Registeel/Spiritomb/random ghost, steel arcanine can have a field day with extremespeed. He forces a lot of switches on his but a lot of things that kill him are 2HKO by ES so often players will screw themselves.
CBnine is working well. Extremespeed gives him the edge up on Blaziken. Lack of stab doesn't really matter when running off 252. Some random calcs
CBnine (adamant, 525atk) Vs. Slowbro(max HP/max DEF Bold)
ES - Avg 23%
Thunderfang - Avg 30%
Flareblitz - Avg 27%
Vs. Steelix (max HP/136 SpD impish)
Overheat - Avg 97% (1HKO 53% of the time with SR)
Flareblitz - Avg 87%
Vs. Crotomb
Flareblitz - Avg 70%
Overheat - 45% (OHKO)
Vs. Chansey
Flareblitz - Avg 95% (guaranteed 1HKO with SR)
Extremespeed - Avg 42%
I run intimidate on mine as it's a lead but with a Flash Fire boost it kills a lot of these walls except Bro but only Houndoom can break through him with ease. I like Arcanine over Blaziken because of extremespeed. Also, intimidate plus his extra defenses give more switch in opportunities. Honestly, once you break through Registeel/Spiritomb/random ghost, steel arcanine can have a field day with extremespeed. He forces a lot of switches on his but a lot of things that kill him are 2HKO by ES so often players will screw themselves.
Ive also been using a hail team to great sucsess. Mine is more offensivly based with 2 walls (besides stallrien). Mine is as follows:
Abomasnow (Choice scarf version. Beats trick leads and is a very good suprise)
Walrien (Obv)
Glaceon (Offensive Snow cloak hax. Uses Brightpowder)
Clefable (Weight-loss Blissey set on Strat. Dex)
Froslass (Snow Cloak hax. Also Brightpowder)
Milotic (Flame orb Marvel Scale Wall.)
I might actually try drapion over Milotic. Could you post that set here?
You guys do understand that if you use magnet rise, you are no longer trapping steelix right . . . ?
Your ability changes from magnet pull to levitate . . .
Your ability changes from magnet pull to levitate . . .
No it doesn't. It makes you immune to Ground-type attacks for 5 turns. The only moves that change affect ability are Gastro Acid and Worry Seed.
http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/magnet_rise
http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/magnet_rise
Oh, nvm then, sorry about the misunderstanding.
I think someone on SASQ said that Magnet Rise doesn't actually CHANGE your ability, it just makes you immune to Ground. Could be wrong, though.
EDIT: Oops, beaten.
Someone obviously isn't familiar with the Probopass / Swellow strategy in the old UU.
Anyway, in some situations Steelix is harder to trap because it is quite common for them to carry Roar, whereas it is far less likely that Registeel will be carrying Hammer Arm or Seismic Toss, although they do provide effective Magneton protection.
Anyway, in some situations Steelix is harder to trap because it is quite common for them to carry Roar, whereas it is far less likely that Registeel will be carrying Hammer Arm or Seismic Toss, although they do provide effective Magneton protection.
I started playing like yesterday or 2 days ago and the most frequent Pokemon I've seen is Shaymin.
I've developped a hate for Hail teams, my current team is no longer any good (already, after only playing for two days and having maybe 20 matches at most).
- Abomasnow
- Walrein
- Drapion
- Spiritomb
Seems to be the current main "core combination" I'm seeing.
Abomasnow obviously sets up the forever-long Hail, and it can either stall you or do damage with a Scarf set for example.
Drapion sets up Toxic Spikes and takes the majority of special hits, most notably from Shaymin, almost rendering it useless in most cases unless you can predict the switch and get an Earth Power. However, Drapion is always going to get in and lay down Toxic Spikes, which makes stalling much quicker. Drapion can then either Rest-Talk or piss you off a bit more with Whirlwind.
Wallrein just does the usual stall job, most tend to pack Substitute, Protect, Roar and either Blizzard, Surf or Toxic if they're not packing Drapion.
Spiritomb pairs very nicely since it counter Gallade and Medicham very easily, as well as most other Pokémon to be honest. Not much stops Spiritomb and you can't even attempt to "stall" it because of Toxic Spikes. Not much can actually beat it with attacking moves either.
That's the main core of what would arguably be the current most effective team at the moment.
Roserade has seen a lot of usage, as has Shaymin. It's nice to see Grass-types having some good usage, they're probably boardering on too good (mainly Shaymin) but I think Drapion, Spiritomb and even Chansey are doing a good enough job of stopping them so far.
- Abomasnow
- Walrein
- Drapion
- Spiritomb
Seems to be the current main "core combination" I'm seeing.
Abomasnow obviously sets up the forever-long Hail, and it can either stall you or do damage with a Scarf set for example.
Drapion sets up Toxic Spikes and takes the majority of special hits, most notably from Shaymin, almost rendering it useless in most cases unless you can predict the switch and get an Earth Power. However, Drapion is always going to get in and lay down Toxic Spikes, which makes stalling much quicker. Drapion can then either Rest-Talk or piss you off a bit more with Whirlwind.
Wallrein just does the usual stall job, most tend to pack Substitute, Protect, Roar and either Blizzard, Surf or Toxic if they're not packing Drapion.
Spiritomb pairs very nicely since it counter Gallade and Medicham very easily, as well as most other Pokémon to be honest. Not much stops Spiritomb and you can't even attempt to "stall" it because of Toxic Spikes. Not much can actually beat it with attacking moves either.
That's the main core of what would arguably be the current most effective team at the moment.
Roserade has seen a lot of usage, as has Shaymin. It's nice to see Grass-types having some good usage, they're probably boardering on too good (mainly Shaymin) but I think Drapion, Spiritomb and even Chansey are doing a good enough job of stopping them so far.
well I find it really easy in this metagame to just go suicide with TR and Endeavor+Hail, which allows all the angels to get 2 kills each, assuming no ghost on the other side. But really this could apply for OU as well, but it's much easier w/o worrying about T-Tar and following steels
Rofl, I run one of these too.
Abomasnow (SubSeeder)
Glaceon (SpecsWhore)
Moltres (Status Inflicter)
Hariyama (Whirlwinder)
Froslass (Staller w/ Snow Cloak, Brightpowder, and T-wave, also carries Spikes)
Spiritomb (Sleep Talker)
Considering ditching something for Walrein, but I find my team is great as it is.
Abomasnow (SubSeeder)
Glaceon (SpecsWhore)
Moltres (Status Inflicter)
Hariyama (Whirlwinder)
Froslass (Staller w/ Snow Cloak, Brightpowder, and T-wave, also carries Spikes)
Spiritomb (Sleep Talker)
Considering ditching something for Walrein, but I find my team is great as it is.
Playing more today, I think I finally found an efficient way to put an Spiker/Toxic Spiker together on a team and still cover all types. My Shanoa account climbed up nicely. r_r
Ludicolo is incredibly good in this metagame with Rain. Nothing can directly switch into him besides Chansey and maybe a very bulky Shaymin. I used a Rain Team thrown together for a while today also, and the results were pretty much amazing. Except for Toxicroak that was a bitch... but yeah the only poke that gave me problems.
Ludicolo is incredibly good in this metagame with Rain. Nothing can directly switch into him besides Chansey and maybe a very bulky Shaymin. I used a Rain Team thrown together for a while today also, and the results were pretty much amazing. Except for Toxicroak that was a bitch... but yeah the only poke that gave me problems.
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