How do you switch into T-Bolt/T-Wave?

[Luphrous]

This is a problem I've been having lately, and while I wasn’t sure if it needed its own thread, I figured I’d try.

How do you take electric attacks? By far the two most common electric attacks you'll face are Thunderbolt and Thunder Wave. For offensive teams especially, these can be real problems. With so many speedy pokes, who's going to take the T-Wave? What if your opponent unleashes SpecsJolt, who takes the T-Bolt?

Now, the obvious answer is: Duh, Ground types! That's fine and all, but lets look at all the OU Ground pokes:
Donphan, Dugtrio, Flygon, Gliscor, Hippowdon, Mamoswine, Rhyperior, and Swampert.

Which OU Ground type makes a good switch-in to T-Bolt users?

Flygon and Gliscor are the only ones who aren't 2HKO'ed by Jolteon's HP Grass, but both can be be 2HKO’ed by Shadow Ball if SR is down.

Swampert is the only guy who would want to switch in on a typical Scarf Magnezone, as Flash Cannon would prove painful for the rest. Flygon is a good switch in if he avoids Flash Cannon.

Flygon switches in safely, but unless CB isn't going to be powerful enough to even 2HKO a defensive Zapdos. Mamoswine only manages to 2HKO Zapdos, meaning Zapdos can finish him off with Heat Wave and Roost if off later.

Overall: Flygon is the closest you're going to get to a safe switch in to T-Bolt users, but still needs to be careful.

What about T-Wave?

Every Ground poke uses Physical moves so that's a plus, however 37.1% of Blissey carry Toxic and 33.4% Ice Beam, so you've still got to be careful or the Blissey user is going to catch on and punish you.

Gliscor is a relatively safe switch, albeit unless you're going to SD, he won't really do much. Flygon gets in and threatens with U-Turn.

Flygon can get in, but doesn't 2HKO even with CB Outrage. 69.6% carry Ice Beam, so really only Rhyperior boosted by SS is going to anything to Cresselia.

96.7% carry Ice Beam...Flygon can 2HKO but will likely be killed. Mamoswine, Rhyperior, and Swampert make pretty good switch-ins, albeit Swampert doesn't threaten at all. Only 17.2% carry Toxic, so you're relatively safe from that.

Flygon can switch in and threaten with Outrage, Gliscor can only pose a threat if it runs SD and SE, Mamoswine will usually scare Togekiss off but note that even Adamant CB Ice Fang is not a guaranteed OHKO. Rhyperior backed by SS also fairs well.

See switch-ins for T-Bolt.

Overall: Similarly to T-Bolt switch-ins, Flygon is the only one able to switch in and pose a threat most of the time, but it’s going to need a CB. A number of T-Wave users also carry Ice Beam, meaning you’ll get your first switch in pretty safe, but after that you need to be very careful.

But what about Electivire and Jolteon?
Electivire: I’m really not going to go very in depth with this guy, he’s going to have trouble with a number of walls as his offensive stats just don’t cut it.
Jolteon: Looking over the list of T-Bolt and T-Wave users, Jolteon is actually a very good switch in. With one exception: Blissey. If your opponent uses Blissey to spread the paralysis, Jolteon’s immunity is going to be rather uselsess.

Conclusion:
Looking over the list of Electric immunities in OU, the only two pokes who will actually be good switch-ins a majority of the time are Flygon and Jolteon…But Jolteon is walled by Blissey and has no way around, something you don’t want in a sweeper, especially on an offensive team. Flygon suffers from Speed vs. Power: Scarf is needed to let him patch up that 100 Base Speed and CB is needed to get by most walls. Now, I’m certainly not trying to say these are poor pokes, I’ve used both and they can be very potent, but neither quite fit my team as well as one would like. Which brings me back to my question: How do you get around Electric attacks? A good Electric resist is needed so as to keep the offense going when your Gyarados or Suicune is threatened, but if Flygon and Jolteon don't cut it for your team, what do you use to absorb Electric attacks?

 

[Scofield]

I think most people have realized recently what a fantastic attacking type electric is, as can be seen by the rise of specs jolteon. Personally, I go for an unorthodox method of Roserade. Natural cure for twave, resists tbolt, and has a nice base special defense.

EDIT: CB tar is also great.

 

[Game Freak201]

For absorbing T-Waves, my offensive teams usually have at least one slow tank who could really care less about the status. As for absorbing electric attacks, I would use pokemon who would resist that type of attack or has acceptable SpD. For example, non-DD/RP Tyranitar variants can take T-Wave without much problems and immediately threaten most of the pokemon you have listed; though, he won't like Toxic from Blissey, Grass Knot from Celebi, or Aura Sphere from Togekiss.

 

[Shinryu]

Celebi and Blissey I think are likely the top choices for switching into said attacks in OU; Celebi resists Bolt and has Natural Cure to take care of T-Wave. Granted, it won't like eating a Shadow Ball or HP Ice if the target is carrying it, but odds are they won't OHKO. Blissey of course eats any special attack and take T-Wave without caring at all.

 

[Friar]

I switch in Latias. I always run RL's status absorber Latias on Offensive teams, so that is who I switch into anything that I expect status from. It also resists TBolt. It also has 130 base special defense and Recover so it can heal off damage later.

 

[Matthew]

I switch in my Choice Band Tyranitar, it doesn't mind a little jolt, and he wasn;t planning on outspeeding anything anyway to be honest. He can kill it on the switch out with Pursuit and just be a pain in general.

 

[Wakalord]

I mainly use Celebi to take Electric attacks and because I run Thunder Wave the speed drop is neligible.

 

[dr4g0n]

Personally, I tend to use anything that has Natural Cure not named Starmie, since they can usually take the hit without much trouble. Also, another pokemon to note is Steelix who is immune to electricity, and can roar away threats. You do need to be careful, as Steelix really doesn't like special attacks, but it usually makes a decent switch in.

 

[LoveDensity]

I always tend to use a bulky ground to take it(Hippodown or Swampert.) They both got amazing synenergy with Heatran. If something like Jolteon wants to ruin them with HP Grass or something, I have a backup pursuit killer to take it out.

 

[Iamslow]

Personally I think the best way to pull this off is replacing a Pokemon double weakened to electric with Electivire to absorb himself a speed boost. I've also done this with Thunder Wave.
Also regarding this combo, I bet we'll see alot of Scissor and Heatran teamups, too.

Celebi and Blissey I think are likely the top choices for switching into said attacks in OU; Celebi resists Bolt and has Natural Cure to take care of T-Wave. Granted, it won't like eating a Shadow Ball or HP Ice if the target is carrying it, but odds are they won't OHKO. Blissey of course eats any special attack and take T-Wave without caring at all.

I'm seeing this all the time.

 

[1059860]

I use Lanturn, who is a great special sponge that absorbs and HEALS from the Electric attacks, while be able to take Ice, Fire, Water and Electric attacks easily.

Also threatens back with STAB Surf or Bolt + Ice Beam. Toxic is also great for crippling walls while Thunder Wave on this thing can do well to sweepers. Since it's so light (lol, pun), it can take Grass Knots with relative ease and OHKO the user, such as Infernape. Still gotta watch out for things like Celebi though.

 

[Tucker]

Electric's have great typing yes, but few have the stats or movepools to use them, I usually rely on Celebi to take status then switch for the KO or scout, but paralasis is bothersome and a cleric isn't worth it.

You could make an agruement for Zapdos but specialize in defense leaves it wide open to Special Attacks, speciallize in SpD leaves you open to Physical Attack, Rotom are meh they were hot when they came out but their tier 2 and are BL at most.

Just my opinion though.

 

[Chou Toshio]

As many have mentioned, tyranitar is a great choice to oppose the likes of Jolteon, and doesn't really mind being slow either. I just HATE it when ttar freezes from paralysis though. >_______>

 

[sheep]

I either switch into Heatran or T-Tar.

Whatever comes first.

But I hate when it freezes. :jump:

 

[Legacy Raider]

Like people have mentioned, I find a specially defensive CB Tyranitar (not JibakuTar, something more like Adamant 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 SpD) to be a great switch in into the majority of special attacks. I use it as my "electric resist" on offensive teams as they are generally really hard to come by. With the sandstorm SpD boost, the number of hits that Tyranitar can take is incredibly high. On average, it takes only takes an astounding 35% on average from a Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt, just to give an idea of its bulk. The majority of Electric types tend to be quite frail too, so Tyranitar usually has easy pickings from there with Pursuit (doing upto 73% to Jolteon if it stays in) and Earthquake / Stone Edge. It does need to beware of Magnezone generally, though, because super effective Flash Cannon does hurt quite a bit (although will never 2HKO from Scarf variants). Because it is generally quite slow and doesn't have to outspeed that many things, Tyranitar doesn't mind Thunder Wave unduly. It just means that Rotom can't burn it now =). Although, like already said, it is infuriating when you correctly predict a switch and Pursuit, only to be fully paralysed.

Jolteon itself can switch into all the pokemon listed in the OP, with the exception of Blissey, and threaten them out, by virtue of its Volt Absorb ability. It also resists Magnezone's Flash Cannon and Togekiss' Air Slash, and has a decent enough SpD stat to switch in on non STAB Heat Waves and Ice Beams, plus it is so light that Celebi's Grass Knot only hits it for 40 Base Power =).

 

[Chou Toshio]

Also Scarf Swampert is good. I'm not joking. O.o

 

[Objection]

What about Steelix? Immune to T-wave, T-bolt and Toxic, and takes neutral damage from HP Ice. The only thing it fears is a fire attack stronger than HP Fire, a special fighting-type attack or Grass Knot, making it a shaky switch-in to Celebi. Since Jolteon tends to carry specs nowadays, Steelix can come in on a predicted Thunderbolt. It does have the problem of not being good on the offensive side though.

 

[Darkmalice]

What about Steelix? Immune to T-wave, T-bolt and Toxic, and takes neutral damage from HP Ice. The only thing it fears is HP Grass or Grass Knot, making it a shaky switch-in to Celebi. Since Jolteon tends to carry specs nowadays, Steelix can come in on a predicted Thunderbolt. It does have the problem of not being good on the offensive side though.

He can, but would you use an UU in OU?

Steelix is a bad switch-in to Zapdos, Togekiss, Porygon-2, Celebi and Blissey with Flamethrower. Cresselia will beat Steelix, though she gives him time to set up SR or use Roar. Either way, Steelix doesn't do a good job at absorbing Thunderwave.

As for Jolteon and Magnezone, he must avoid their Hidden Powers. But otherwise, he's fine.

In short though, he's not as reliable as the other bulky Grounds.

However, Steelix does better than Donphan. It's interesting that Donphan fails against every one of these pokemon except Jolteon or Magnezone locked into Thunderbolt.


Technically, Starmie can also come in on Blissey and Cresselia for the sole purpose of spinning and Recovering off the damage. On any other T-wave abuser, it's suicide. Trick also fails miserably, for the lack of Leftovers recovery will be telegraphed to your oponent.

 

[TekkenStorm]

Electivire: I’m really not going to go very in depth with this guy, he’s going to have trouble with a number of walls as his offensive stats just don’t cut it.

I don't see why Electivire is not a good switchin, he takes on all the T-Bolt/T-Wave users you mentioned quite easily with maybe only Cresselia giving him a little problem based on her moveset.

 

[Objection]

He can, but would you use an UU in OU?

Yes. Just because a pokemon isn't OU doesn't mean it's crap. Why do people automatically assume that UUs are crap in OU?

Steelix doesn't do a good job at absorbing Thunderwave.

Steelix is immune to Thunderwave. Therefore he is good at absorbing it. He might not be good at absorbing Flamethrower or Grass Knot, but he absorbs Thunderwave and that's what counts first.

 

[Darkmalice]

I don't see why Electivire is not a good switchin, he takes on all the T-Bolt/T-Wave users you mentioned quite easily with maybe only Cresselia giving him a little problem based on her moveset.

He actually works well most of the time. The only problems are he can't 2HKO the standard 252 / 220 / 36 Celebi, and he has no hope at breaking Cresselia. However, he works better than most of the other Electric Absorbers.


Objection... the whole point of this thread is to find pokemon who can switch-in to T-Bolt/T-Wave and not be threatened by the user. Your argument just applies that every pokemon works, and Swampert doesn't have to fear that HP Grass from Zapdos.


I'm surprised that no one has brought up Sleep Talkers yet - immunity to T-Wave when asleep. Blissey, Porygon-2 and Zapdos to an extent hate STalk Machamp's Dynamic Punch. STalk Gyarados has an easy time against Blissey and Cresselia without Charge Beam. Or I could just use any STalk wall for any T-wave user, Rotom-w being the most common example. It can always stall out the T-wave users thanks to no need to use STalk when Resting. Other bulky STalk users include Cresselia, Dusknoir, Spiritomb and Bronzong barring Zapdos' Heat Wave.

 

[Abacus]

You can switch in any of the grounds + volt absorbers into the electric attack. Even if your electric immune pokemon can't force the thunderwave/thunderbolt user out, at least the opponent won't be using thunderwave/thunderbolt next turn. You can then switch without fear to something that actually will force the opponent to switch. This might not work more than once, but after the first time, the opponent will at least think twice about using thunderwave/thunderbolt.

Also, don't forget guts pokemon and resttalkers. Other people already mentioned psycho shift and slow tanks. Lum berry could possibly work, but I doubt that it would be worth it.

 

[Boingo]

Hitmonlee is a great switch in at least to Porygon2 and Blissey, as it OHKOes even through their most defensive EV spreads with Close Combat @ Choice Band, Life Orb or Expert Belt. Cannot so easily switch in on most of the others though, even though it can 2HKO most of them, like 252/220 Bold Zapdos or standard Togekiss with Stone Edge.

 

[RaikouLover]

Originally Posted by scofield
EDIT: CB tar is also great.

Sure it is, good luck getting another attack off with Tyranitar the rest of the match. Tyranitar takes a minimum of 34% from SpecsJolteon Thunderbolt, meaning between Stealth Rock and the 2 attacks, you will have a maximum of 20% health left! In short: it is a one-time counter. Best switch ins to Electric moves / Electric type Pokemon:

Jolteon - Jolteon is simply the best. Even for Blissey, absorb the T-Wave then Baton Pass out.

Gliscor - Run a spread of 252 HP / 216 Spe / 40 SpD found on the analysis. Zapdos is set up fodder, and SpecsJolt has a mere 30% chance at a 2HKO.

Flygon - Flygon is a quick fix for T-Waves, especially since it can come in then U-turn out. However, it can't do shit to Zapdos.

RestTalk Raikou - Underused little bugger walls every electric type in the game (except maybe Specs Shadow Balling Rotom) with its excellent SpD. Jolteon Shadow Ball gets a mere ~25% on him. If you want to really be ballzy, stick Calm Mind on there with Thunderbolt and RestTalk.

Steelix:

Originally Posted by darknessmalice
Steelix is a bad switch-in to Zapdos, Togekiss, Porygon-2, Celebi and Blissey with Flamethrower. Cresselia will beat Steelix, though she gives him time to set up SR or use Roar. Either way, Steelix doesn't do a good job at absorbing Thunderwave.

As for Jolteon and Magnezone, he must avoid their Hidden Powers. But otherwise, he's fine.

In short though, he's not as reliable as the other bulky Grounds.

However, Steelix does better than Donphan. It's interesting that Donphan fails against every one of these pokemon except Jolteon or Magnezone locked into Thunderbolt.

What are you smoking? Only thing Steelix has to fear from T-Wavers is Zapdos Heat Wave, Togekiss Aura Sphere, or Steel Killer Mag w/ HP Fire. The best Steelix spread is Max HP / 200 SpD, Careful, which was the OU spread I've used. Maybe you forgot that Steelix isn't weak to Ice or Grass, but he isn't taking shit from Porygon2, Cresselia, or Blissey. Celebi does hit him hard with GK only because hes fat as shit, but the other three should be afraid of Explosion.

Camerupt: Yeah... he doesn't mind Hidden Power Ice / Grass / Fire.

Lanturn: Walls every electric type in the game, but sucks otherwise.

Refresh / Psycho Shift Latias: Your next best bet if you don't care for ground types. Watch for other shit like Shadow Ball / Signal Beam / Flash Cannon

Roserade: High Special Defense and good speed with Natural Cure. Rossy does alright.

Blissey: Whore.

 

[Trust]

Why not Lanturn? It absorbs electric attacks, Grass Knot has a 40BP if I remember correctly on it, it has great special defense thanks to its HP, and great type, as it's one of the users that can resist Electric/Ice. Furthermore, it completely walls Starmie and can spread some paralysis with Thunder Wave or Dischage. I would suggest a set like the next one:

Lanturn @ Leftorvers
Nature: + Sp.Def -Attack
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 6 SpA
Surf
Discharge
Rest
Sleep Talk

It's really bulky on the special side, and with Discharge it can support the team. Futhermore, the most used Ground type which could disturb Lanturn in the past was Garchomp, and now it's gone, so try it. Is there another pokemon which can do the same as good as Lanturn does? I don't think so.