Now I feel stupid. XD; Thanks for helping.
Did you put fat next to my name when quoting? XD
Edit: Oh..now I see. xD;
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Most Generation PRNG Help / Information
- Thread starter mingot
- Start date
Did you put fat next to my name when quoting? XD
Edit: Oh..now I see. xD;
No it should still work. You must've made a mistake somewhere in there. Make sure you followed the steps exactly- 5 pokemon in your party, don't start on the happiness checker etc.
You saw the different columns for the different gender ratio's right?
I just did a bit of an experiment in FRLG for the hell of it, using save states to freeze and manipulate the RNG to my advantage, but it utterly failed. It appears that the RNG in those games moves a lot faster than 60 frames/second.
It actually comes out to about 120 frames/second, using my very hastily rounded and truncated math. Yes, I did account for the fact that I was running VBA at 2x speed.
It actually comes out to about 120 frames/second, using my very hastily rounded and truncated math. Yes, I did account for the fact that I was running VBA at 2x speed.
But won't you be too early then? Only after the egg is created it advances the IRNG, so you want it to be exactly where you want it don't you?
I found out the point in which the seed is set from outside the PRNG. Fun thing is:
onEnterBattle:
* 0201B9D4 read out current seed
* 0201B9E0 write another seed.
(...) battle
after battle:
* 0201B9E0 write seed - and it's the same that was read out previously.
So battle seeds the PRNG anew and restores the seed afterwards.
Breakpointer 0201B9E0 and watched a reset:
- Before anything happened, seed 46020009 was poked.
(makes sense, at 2 o'clock in the morning, on 9th of april)
- A moment later, seed 0 was poked.
- Another moment later, seed 46020009 was poked again.
- After selecting Continue, seed 7802021F was poked. Time: 02:26AM
4*9+26=62d. pad with less than 60 seconds -> 122d
so first byte could be expected to be between 3E and 79. (it is)
2 AM -> second byte corrent.
offset never reached 2^16 (and I don't really care about the 09 from the year)
Scented a Pokemon and caught: PID is 116B15B3, fed the DVs into RNG-Reporter (yes, when having the PID, this is kind of stupid) and RNG-Reporter finds the seed 7802021F as initial.
btw: I peeked at the initial seed a number of times and it always seems to match pretty well with the (month*day+minute+second)_(hour)_(ratherlow)-formula.
So whoever said that there's a higher framerate for the initial seed should show some of his results.
I haven't yet checked whether eggRNG works exactly the same as said for platinum, but from what I've seen until now, I strongly believe that this topic could be renamed into "Platinum and D/P PRNG Research".
There are some people who reoprted success with D/P, right?
TCC
I would like to reply to this
Let's remember that when everything is shiny, nothing is. So nothing's being ruined here, but rather it's now a personal preference between one thing being shiny or not. Say you like Shiny Charizard. That's great, you can breed for that. Say you don't like shiny Swampert. Well don't breed it shiny then. Now that their value is equal, the only thing standing between normal and shiny and their decision is a person's tendency to go for the shiny. Once this information has been known for a long time people will eventually cease their "shinies are everything" mentality.
I have captured a few shinies on my own by chance (won't tell you them, and I've never Pokeradared anything). Though this might come biased as they're either legendary (most of them are, and only one decently IVed), or useless. I can feel your pain that your Green mence no longer becomes as viable. Kinda makes me feel sad that Vliegtuig's Shiny Latias beats mine (his has 29/2/29/29/31/31 Timid. Who could beat that without resorting to hacks or insane luck?). But I've learned to deal with it.
Also, there is no way to prove that your Pokemon is RNG bred. People will continue cheating of the so called "RNG-less" SBPs and there's nothing you or anyone else can do about it.
The good thing is though, that once the method of passing IVs down in Platinum is fully exploitable, there's no need to die for a Pokemon when you can make it yourself. It will revolutionize breeding and perhaps soft resetting when we go that far. I'm very hopeful of this.
td;dr: The times have changed. People's standards rise as they compete over one another, so you'd have to expect that your things will be outclassed in a while. This is a step towards perfection
Try testing it at normal speed first.
It is at this point that I think trading will mostly be done for parents, not final products.
I will try this, but I can't see rounding error causing my result to double.
EDIT: There's something odd going on here. I tried normal speed, catching one pokemon immediately and checking its seed. I then used the "monster seed" value outputted by RNGReporter as a starting point for when I caught my next pokemon (I re-loaded a save state so the RNG should be seeded the same). I waited 60 seconds, caught a pokemon, and got something that's not on RNGReporter's list, up to 999,999 frames out from my initial seed. I repeated this three times, each time getting a result not on the list.
What am I doing wrong, or is FR/LG that messed up that even using save states does not cause the RNG to behave in the same way?
Awesome work, I think I did guess correctly that they were reseeding with a stored seed and not doing an actual rewind ;)
As for the original statements on D/P, well most came from Japanese sites so to be honest it was taken from there, and early results (I did ask someone to test it a while back either here or on IRC) did not come out positive so I think it just sort of got taken for granted.
Lots of work now piled up for the OP.
I really need to retitle, change the text, AND fully document "Method J" for egg generation.
Plus I am trying to get RNG Reporter ready for another release with a cleaned up version of the tool Jonny used to exploit egg IVs (it's currently pretty nasty and I am very impressed he used it to good results). And then there will be that documentation.
But fun times :)
I think I can explain that.
Help me first -- What method is the pokemon you are catching for the initial seed?
Because the RNG reporter initial seed finder is only doing the IVs -> PID -> Seed for method 1 pokemon since that's all we needed for it to be effective for 4th gen games.
I used Mewtwo specifically to avoid that problem. Save a .sgm in front of Mewtwo, restore it, immediately catch Mewtwo, check its IVs/seed. Restore .sgm again, wait a minute, catch Mewtwo again. Input its IVs/nature into RNGReporter and search from the seed of the first Mewtwo up to 999,999 frames. No match.
okayokayokay;
just to clear this up,
- this IRNG exploitation can be successfully carried out in Diamond/Pearl as well?
if so, I suck. .____.'
_wolfgang.
just to clear this up,
- this IRNG exploitation can be successfully carried out in Diamond/Pearl as well?
if so, I suck. .____.'
_wolfgang.
Yes, I'm now SRing IVs for a shiny croagunk right now ^^
Edit: I think I found what I was doing wrong. If I only put in single digits for Month/Day, I'll futz it up, correct?
Old Jibaku:
Breeding has changed. It's no longer about shininess, egg chains or IV codes. It's an endless series of soft resets, pressed by cheaters and the legit-obsessed. Breeding, and its consumption of the Pokeconomy, has become a well oiled machine.
Breeding has changed. IV bred Pokemon carry IV generated shininess, use IV bred Hidden Powers. Pokerus in their bodies enhance and regulate the speed of EV-training. Genetic control. Information control. Value control. Everything is mapped out and kept under control.
Breeding has changed. The age of well-bred elitism has become the age of control. All in the name of producing the WiFi metagame possible. And he who controls the WiFi metagame controls history.
Breeding has changed. When the battlefield is under total control, breeding... becomes routine.
I wouldn't want to skip this, you're adressing some very important philosophical and ethical questions in it.
First of all, doing this exploit (do we have some catchy name for it, yet?) is not too easy. While Chaining takes a lot of patience and luck and many repels, this one needs you to find out the DVs/IVs. This can be done by lots of rare candys (can't be bought, AFAIR) or cheat module.
I always thought that people having an AR or pokesav already have their options. Of course, stupid cheaters will do some obvious mistakes in creating their fakes, but eggs always have been a problem. It's one thing that bugs me in the Shiny-Clique - they're not fakes, but as you can't verify them and call them 100%legit, it's no real information.
People having their tools know that - at least the ones that know about legit checking - and what's the need to go through reversePRNGing and tapping the poketch a quadrillion times if you can cheat an egg that is exactly the same within the five minutes of creating it in pokesav?
It's like the double-edge of science is single-edge only. Nuclear power yields nuclear bomb. But in this case, there already is a nuclear bomb and it's far more easier doing it not-the-rng-way.
There will always be people who "play" the game. Wander through the story, use the pokemon they get, finish the E4 and afterstory and then call it's a day.
There will always be kids who love their Piplup because it's the first pokemon they got and it's cute and they don't care whether it's shiny or high-power-DV.
So resetting for shinys and flawless DV has always been the scope for some more... "competitive" (word wrong?) players. Players who want to be the best in battling, battle tower and every battle that might arise. I never really understood them - You often have to start all this stuff after the story's over and as you don't get exp for this battles you can't watch your Pokemon grow.
I hope I'm not the only one seeing those "hardcore battlers" as totally different from regular players. Those already put a lot of work into "improving" their Pokemon and RNGing won't change so much about it.
Shinys are not special. Not anymore. Maybe they used to be, back in gold/silver/crystal when they were designed to show kids the use of GBC. But since GameFreaks decided to flood the market with D/P, that time is long over. Think about it: 1:8192 reduced to 1:2048 simply by choosing the parents - or ~1:200 by chaining. The only thing missing is a guaranteed shiny in story but I guess if the G/S remakes arrive, they'll put in the shiny gyarados again.
Plus: Many shinys don't look special. Evoli's one of my favourite Pokemon but like some other Pokes, it's shiny forme doesn't look any better. I like Ponita and Pachirisu for the same reason - you know they're something as soon as they flash into sight. But I guess they're not worth much at competitive battling.
Some time ago, I started believeing, that Pokemon is doing something very wrong. This means the event-pokemon-stuff - keeping kids from content they bought (in germany those events are very few, in the countrys next to us it's often like none), increasing the number of legendarys while still only giving one master ball (After throwing dozens of hyper balls onto sleeping 1HP-pokemon, one realizes that it's just unfair. I decided to give out MasterBalls then), plus making the shinys so "unspecially special" - making some kids hunt them like crazy.
If someone really wants a shiny, I think it's best to give them the road - instead of letting them starve for hours, days or weeks (Shiny Egg Hunting ran for 1.5 years in a german forum and kids really had their DS on power for days or weeks). After some shinys they'll realise they're not really special - especially if you hunt, cheat or breed them in numbers. If they don't - poor kids.
Some shinys will always be special. I'll never forget the first time that Golbat flashed over my screen (victory road). After it was caught I could have exploded with joy. My second shiny was a Graveller and I guess I had sweaty hands for fearing it might simply explode. Snover on jap. Platinum was a real surprise, too.
They are special - because they showed up randomly. If you caught them yourself, you'll always remember them.
As soon as you start manipulating, they lose a lot of their worth - be it chaining, rng-breeding, resetting or cheating. Random shinys showing up in the wild will always be special in your heart - and even if there's no more regular pokemon, your own caught wild shiny will still be special to you.
TCC