Yes. Agreeing that there are still so many other usable abilities still left hopelessly untapped. This is a discussion for another thread anyway.
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CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 1 - Concept Poll 1
- Thread starter cyberzero
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Plus and Magmortified's Pivot Point
Sounds very interesting :D
Sounds very interesting :D
Veedrock has a good point, since a perma-weather abuser would not be the greatest idea (in case this sounds hypocritical on my part, I didn't suggest that my Sun Abuser concept would have Drought). A minor nitpick would be that Rain teams carry at leat one Pokemon with a Damp Rock, so Kingdra would have a little longer to sweep. If "Kingdra in the Snow" passes anyway, we could limit its movepool significantly to make it managable (bulky Waters sans Swampert can manage fine against Kingdra, for example, since it relies on two Water moves and typically Draco Meteor for the Rain variety).
Oh, Bad, but in a Good Way looks fun. I'll vote for that. . .
Originally Posted by Fat Raverist
Name: Shapeshifter
I like this concept as it would allow a similar playing style to how one would use Porygon2, as an example, in being flexible. This is ultimately my goal when constructing a team, for it to not rely on walls ultimately losing my stride, but to instead, be able to work around threats and attacks. Hope it gets more votes!
Name: Shapeshifter
I like this concept as it would allow a similar playing style to how one would use Porygon2, as an example, in being flexible. This is ultimately my goal when constructing a team, for it to not rely on walls ultimately losing my stride, but to instead, be able to work around threats and attacks. Hope it gets more votes!
Guys, don't forget one thing: no matter what ability you can give to CAP8, he will never be Kingdra.
What I mean is, he will never have all the advantages Kingdra has. First of all, while Ice hits more things supereffective than Water, it offers lesser neutral coverage. With things like Scizor, Tyranitar and especially Heatran lurking around, spamming Blizzard is nowhere as effective as spamming Surf.
Moreover, Blizzard is not powered up like Surf is, so it will do less damage (120BP+STAB vs 95BP+STAB+Rain Boost). If you add that Blizzard has only 8PP, you see that it is less powerful.
But most importantly, there is no "icy" Waterfall. What I mean is, no matter how powerful your Blizzard is, Blissey and friends can sponge it without much problem, even if it comes from the likes of Glaceon.
Finally, while there's no perma rain, Tyranitar can come much more easily on an Hail team rather than a Rain team. And while a Rain team generally has 2 or 3 setuppers, Hail teams only have Abomasnow.
EDIT:And don't forget how better Water is defensively than Ice. What makes Kingdra so threatening is his lack of weaknesses and, most notably, his resistance to the ubiquitous Bullet Punch. An Ice type, on the contrary, would be weak to Bullet Punch, or at best neutral. And while you should say, "just pack Magnezone", you still have to fight with a fighting weakness (no pun intended). And there's no type resistant to both Steel and Fighting, so, if CAP8 don't want to give up the Ice STAB (ending being not even comparable to Kingdra in terms of threat, even if still good), you will always be weak to either Bullet Punch or Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave.
So, both offensive teams and defensive ones will probably have an answer to CAP8 (respectively, priority revenge killing/resistance switching and standard special sponging)
I vote Plus and Magmortified The Pivot Point
Pivot Point gets my vote.
Ah, nuts! I should know this, because I often use a Rain team! And how could I forget Scizor's Bullet Punch? Kingdra is a lot easier to switch in versus something like Kabutops (to give a non-Ice example, but still has a lot of weaknesses). To get an Ice-type frail sweeper in would require a sacrifice like getting in Kabutops most of the time. Maybe Ice/Fighting would be a good type (neutralizes Rock weakness, can hurt Blissey)? You overestimate Kingdra's durability a bit, since though he may have good typing, anything hits hard when you have to deal with lackluster defenses, Life Orb, and often Stealth Rock.
I agree with most of your post but contest the idea that "nothing" resists both Steel and Fighting.
Do Starmie, Slowbro, Zapdos, Gyarados, Tentacruel, and Rotom ring a bell? Kitsunoh too, but it will be unavailable during playtesting of CAP8.
This is moot if you meant there's no one single type resistant to both those attacks, but the same can be said of Psychic and Electric.
Voting for Knightofwind's Antibiotic.
Elevator Music's Neglected Ability. Come on, show Filter and Rough Skin some love!
My problem with Neglected Ability is that the Order of Events isn't exactly kind to it. Before we get to Ability, we have to at least do Typing. However, how in the world do we decide what typing to go with when we don't yet know what ability we're going to be basing CAP8 around, and thus aren't able to pick a typing that will optimally benefit CAP8 and allow it to use its ability, the entire pillar of the concept, effectively? Under the current OoE, we'd have to instead agree on some typing first, and then pick an ability that should be able to benefit and perform well with a Pokemon of the type, but the focus of the concept is the ability, and not the typing, and thus the ability we go with shouldn't be restricted by a prior step.
As a result of this, we'd either have to make an exception for CAP8, and allow ability to be decided first, or otherwise go with the current Order of Events and finish with a slightly inferior product due to us having to haphazardly work out the typing without having the actual foundation of the concept, the ability we're going to work with, to guide us in our decisions.
Making an exception for CAP8 hopefully shouldn't be a problem if Neglected Ability is selected, but the fact that we have to even consider making an exception to the OoE to best fulfill this concept really bothers me, and thus I would prefer one of the other concepts to it, which don't need a change to the OoE to optimally achieve their goals.
As a result of this, we'd either have to make an exception for CAP8, and allow ability to be decided first, or otherwise go with the current Order of Events and finish with a slightly inferior product due to us having to haphazardly work out the typing without having the actual foundation of the concept, the ability we're going to work with, to guide us in our decisions.
Making an exception for CAP8 hopefully shouldn't be a problem if Neglected Ability is selected, but the fact that we have to even consider making an exception to the OoE to best fulfill this concept really bothers me, and thus I would prefer one of the other concepts to it, which don't need a change to the OoE to optimally achieve their goals.
I disagree Naxte. I think this is exactly where Concept Assessment will be great for, because we can talk about possible abilities we can give this thing in there (if my concept somehow wins which isn't looking too likely atm) and then discuss possible typings that could be good with some of those neglected abilities. There are plenty of abilities that we can choose from, so I think no matter what typing we come up with we'll have fine choices.
KnightoftheWind's Antibiotic
pivot point by mag and plus
Edit: Kingdra in the snow just wouldnt work. Sure, most teams would have an obama to get the hailstorm going, but what happens when a scizor switches in? Particularly legacy raiders set comes to mind. I once swept an entire hail team because stallrein was broken withing seconds, and from there the rest fell like dominoes. Cursetar is also a top contender for ridding hail from the battlefield, esp cursetar with a careful nature. It shrugs off surf and blizzard and hits back with stab rock and dark typed moves.
Edit: Kingdra in the snow just wouldnt work. Sure, most teams would have an obama to get the hailstorm going, but what happens when a scizor switches in? Particularly legacy raiders set comes to mind. I once swept an entire hail team because stallrein was broken withing seconds, and from there the rest fell like dominoes. Cursetar is also a top contender for ridding hail from the battlefield, esp cursetar with a careful nature. It shrugs off surf and blizzard and hits back with stab rock and dark typed moves.
Kingdra in the Snow Seems like a fun set, although I would much rather prefer a Kingdra in the Sun, so I will vote for KITSn.
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