Lanturn [4F]*

COMPLETE
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/lanturn


[SET]
name: Special Tank
move 1: Surf
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Thunder Wave / Toxic / Heal Bell
item: Leftovers
ability: Volt Absorb
nature: Calm
evs: 40 HP / 76 Def / 140 SpA / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Lanturn makes a unique special tank in UU and even OU environments thanks mostly to its typing and ability. While most bulky Water-types fear STAB Electric attacks, Lanturn actually enjoys them, restoring health on impact. Even though most of its stats aren't overly impressive at first glance, Lanturn's resistances to some of the most common special attacks (Fire Blast, Thunderbolt, Surf, Ice Beam) allow it to absorb special hits left and right.</p>

<p>Surf and Thunderbolt provide good coverage as Lanturn's most reliable STAB moves. Discharge is available over Thunderbolt, however, especially if you're looking to catch switch-ins with some lucky paralysis. Ice Beam rounds off type-coverage, most commonly hitting Grass-types eager to switch in and hit Lanturn super effectively. Ice Beam also punishes any incoming Dragon-types like Altaria, who suffer no weakness to Lanturn's STAB attacks and can tear into Lanturn's weaker defensive stat with a super effective Earthquake. In the fourth moveslot, Lanturn has the choice between two status moves; Thunder Wave is generally preferred for its ability to cripple incoming attackers, while Toxic can wear down bulkier absorbers of Lanturn's attacks. Keep in mind when choosing Toxic, however, that the majority of switch-ins to Lanturn either have an ability that makes status useless (Chansey, Clefable), or are immune to the status (Registeel, Venusaur, Nidoking). Should you be more concerned about your own team's status conditions, Heal Bell is a neat choice. Ice Beam is easily replaceable if you'd like to use both a status move and Heal Bell on the set.</p>

<p>The EVs chosen are meant to allow Lanturn to take a maximum amount of special attacks while balancing usable Special Attack and Defense stats. Since Lanturn's HP is so much higher than its Special Defense, applying EVs to Special Defense first is more productive concerning special hit-taking. 40 HP EVs allow Lanturn to take 4 consecutive Seismic Tosses from the likes of Chansey or Clefable, while over 200 Special Defense EVs are highly recommended considering Lanturn has no way of healing itself. The remaining EVs are placed in Defense to easier take Arcanine Flare Blitzes and the like; however, giving Lanturn 76 Speed EVs instead allows it to outspeed the majority of Nidoqueen, Claydol, and other threats around 75 base Speed. The remaining EVs are distributed to Special Attack to make its hits have at least a small amount of impact against other special-based foes.</p>

<p>The first thing Lanturn wants in a teammate isone immunity or indifference to powerful Earthquakes aimed at Lanturn. Considering Flying-types both do this and also resist Grass, Lanturn's other weakness, they are strong defensive partners. The cherry on top is that Flying is also weak to Electric, a type that Lanturn enjoys switching in on. Some good candidates for this role are Altaria, who has access to instant recovery and who is 4x weak to Ice, a type Lanturn resists, and Moltres, who also has access to instant recovery in Roost. Lanturn makes a formidable switch-in to bulky Water-types in UU like Milotic and Slowbro, so Pokemon who are looking for a way to get around these two walls are generally good attacking partners. Should you wish to take advantage of Lanturn's paralysis-spreading ability, slower attackers like Marowak and Hariyama become usable. Wish support is a neverending stable utility for Lanturn; some good users to pair with are Grass-types like Exeggutor and Leafeon, or the more usable Chansey and Clefable in UU. In OU, Latias and Togekiss are resistant to both of Lanturn's weaknesses, both sporting especially important immunities to Ground-type attacks.</p>

[SET]
name: Parafusion
move 1: Confuse Ray
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Ice Beam / Surf
item: Leftovers
ability: Volt Absorb
nature: Calm
evs: 40 HP / 216 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>If you're looking to use Lanturn in the land of OU, this set is the way to go. "Parafusion" is a strategy that includes inducing both paralysis and confusion on the opponent. This means that for 5 turns out of 8, the notion of "stop hitting yourself" will be quite valid for the opponent. This strategy is quite easy to pull off with Lanturn's unique set of resistances, allowing it to come in several times during the match and cripple the opponent. The best way to utilize the combination is to paralyze first and to then use Confuse Ray. This way, if Lanturn gets the paralysis off, it's guaranteed to get the confusion off as well. However, this is obviously not always possible due to Ground-types, Jolteon, and opposing Lanturn, so the reverse is possible too; just note that the combination will not be guaranteed in that situation.</p>

<p>Thunderbolt and Ice Beam are the recommended attacking moves because of their near flawless coverage, which helps Lanturn compensate for its below average Special Attack stat. Discharge is an option over Thunderbolt for an easier chance at paralysis. However, it isn't the recommended choice because Thunder Wave is already on the set, and being able to control what you paralyze is very important. For example, you don't want to accidentally paralyze something you intended to put to sleep with a different Pokemon. In addition, Thunderbolt allows Lanturn an 87% chance to OHKO a min/min Gyarados even if Stealth Rock is not up, while Discharge has no chance without Stealth Rock. Discharge also cannot guarantee an OHKO on BulkyGyara even if Stealth Rock is up, while Thunderbolt can. Ice Beam is needed so that Lanturn can beat Celebi, Latias, and Zapdos one-on-one while also netting OHKOs on the 4x weak Dragons, provided Stealth Rock is up. Surf is a possibility in the last slot if you find that Lanturn has a lot of trouble with Magnezone or Mamoswine, but it's less useful than Ice Beam due to the poor coverage.</p>

<p>The EV spread is tailored for survival in the OU metagame. The biggest difference is the large amount of Defense EVs. Defense EVs are an absolute necessity for Lanturn's survival in OU because without them, many unboosted neutral attacks can 2HKO it, and even resisted attacks take off massive chunks of damage. It should be noted that with these Defense EVs, Lanturn is easily able to survive a Life Orb MixMence's Earthquake. In addition, without any Defense EVs, Lanturn is 2HKOed by a +1 Life Orb Waterfall from Gyarados, but with them it doesn't even come close to a 2HKO. Lastly, these Defense EVs let Lanturn take next to nothing from Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch, making it a great switch-in to a very common move. Therefore, after maxing out Special Defense and reaching 401 HP for a Leftovers number, the rest of the EVs should be dumped into Defense. This will allow Lanturn to parafuse a much wider variety of opponents. This EV spread also works very well in UU, where it makes a great counter to Arcanine while acting as a check to Blaziken and Azumarill. It also helps Lanturn take non-STAB Earthquakes relatively well if it has no choice. Surf is recommended over Ice Beam in UU as Fire-types are much more common, as well as Steelix and other slow Ground-types.</p>

<p>Since Lanturn's job is to spread paralysis and confuse in the process, teammates that benefit from paralyzed opponents will greatly appreciate partnering up with it. Togekiss is the best example of this, as he and Lanturn cover each other's weaknesses extremely well while paralysis helps Togekiss hax things to death with Air Slash. Encore Supporter Togekiss is the best variation of Togekiss to use in tandem with Lanturn, because he can Encore all the Earthquakes aimed at Lanturn with ease, as well as offer Wish support for it. In addition, the two together are staples on a hax team, as they make it nearly impossible for the opponent to move. Latias and Salamence also greatly appreciate Lanturn's support, as it takes down the Ice Beam wielding bulky Waters with ease, with the exception of Swampert. Lanturn also enjoys their support as they have perfect (Latias) or near-perfect (Salamence) coverage of each other's weaknesses. Teammates with strong Grass-type attacks, such as Shaymin, complement Lanturn very well, as it has a lot of trouble with Swampert, and again, they cover each other's weaknesses. Rotom-C is also helpful for defeating Swampert and covering the Ground weakness, but he also helps against Electivire, who gives Lanturn a bit of trouble. A partner that can kill Blissey is helpful, as Lanturn is helpless against her. Something such as Machamp can fill this role, while being a great partner in hax as well. Lastly, something such as Roserade or Rapid Spinners that can get rid of Toxic Spikes are very helpful to Lanturn's survival, as it becomes very difficult for it to do its job while poisoned.</p>

[SET]
name: Sleep Talk
move 1: Discharge
move 2: Surf
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
ability: Volt Absorb
nature: Calm
evs: 40 HP / 216 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With no way of restoring health instantly thanks to its lack of recovery move, Lanturn can often be worn down by strong special attackers throughout a battle. This problem is void thanks to Rest and Sleep Talk, which also help to clean Lanturn of damaging status. The basic premise of this set is similar to that of other defensive Lanturn sets besides the fact that Lanturn will want to forgo any offensive presence it once had to make sure it can stay on the field for as long as possible. With this in mind, Discharge takes priority over Thunderbolt because it allows Lanturn to retain both its status-inducing ability and Electric STAB. Surf is generally the best secondary attacking option considering it receives STAB and has good coverage alongside Discharge; however, Ice Beam hits dangerous Grass-types super effectively and gets completely perfect coverage alongside Thunderbolt.</p>

<p>Defense EVs are used in place of Special Attacks EVs simply to allow Lanturn to take some physical hits before waking up. Again, 40 HP EVs allow Lanturn to take 4 consecutive Seismic Tosses, which is especially important when you might actually be looking into stalling the user out. A small investment in Speed to beat base 75 Pokemon plus Nidoqueen is a decent idea; however, the defensive EVs will generally be more useful. Special Attack EVs can help as well, but Pokemon without recovery will be quickly worn down by Lanturn's assaults one-on-one anyway. This set still aims to absorb special hits, so a Calm nature and maximum Special Defense EVs are recommended.</p>

<p>Defensive partners are more important to this set than nearly any other listed Lanturn set simply because this variation of Lanturn will be looking to stick around for a while. A solid Levitator or Ground-resist is crucial to Lanturn's long term survival, and one who can take on other trouble Pokemon is extremely helpful. Bulky variants of Moltres and Altaria can check most Grass-types who threaten Lanturn with their STAB attacks; however, they will need constant Rapid Spin support to remain effective throughout the battle. Hitmontop and Donphan are good choices in this regard, as they allow any Flying-type partner of Lanturn or Lanturn itself to not be afraid of powerful Rock-type attacks. For this set to produce satisfying results, its user must rid the opponent of set Lanturn counters like Chansey, Clefable, and all Pokemon with Grass or Ground STAB. A Fighting-type, like the previously mentioned Hitmontop, does well in countering Clefable and Chansey, plus can be a makeshift counter for Ground-types like Rhydon and Steelix. While Moltres and other Fire-types do a good job in beating Grass-types directly, one will need decisive play and prediction to take these enemies out of the battle completely. Having another Water-type to lure out these Pokemon early in the game will be helpful in knowing then beating Lanturn's counters. Toxic Spikes are also helpful in allowing Lanturn to stall out special sponges like Hariyama and last-Pokemon Chansey, although most of Lanturn's counters are resistant to the field effect in one way or another. Partners with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy to cure Lanturn of its sleep status early are great choices, the most notable users being the previously mentioned Altaria, Flareon, or Grumpig, or Grass-types like Meganium, Leafeon, or Vileplume.</p>

[SET]
name: Rain Dance
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 3: Thunder
move 4: Ice Beam / Confuse Ray
item: Damp Rock
ability: Volt Absorb
nature: Calm
evs: 40 HP / 216 SpA / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Lanturn can fill a very special niche for rain teams in that it not only provides a valuable immunity to Electric attacks and can come in to set up Rain Dance on a wide range of special attackers, but can also use the rain to benefit itself as well as its teammates. In the rain, Lanturn can forgo its weaker Electric-type attacks for a fully accurate STAB Thunder with a good 30% paralysis rate while at the same time effectively gaining a second STAB boost on its Water-type attacks.</p>

<p>While Lanturn isn't often seen as an offensive threat, with the rain powering up both its STABs, it can do a lot more damage than the average supporting Pokemon on a rain team. Surf is the reliable STAB attack, but Hydro Pump becomes a very appealing alternative when one considers the highly offensive nature of the teams this set would find itself on. With the added base power, Hydro Pump can force the opponent to bring their Water resists into play, giving Lanturn a great opportunity to soften them up for its more threatening rain sweeper teammates. Thunder is the obvious choice for Electric STAB since it provides power, reliability, and a nice paralysis chance in the rain. Ice Beam can go in the last slot to complete coverage and give Lanturn a weapon against Grass-types, but Confuse Ray is a viable support move as well. Confuse Ray can potentially give Lanturn many free turns to set up Rain Dance while also working with Thunder's paralysis rate to create the dreaded ParaFusion combo.</p>

<p>One of the best things Lanturn brings to the table is some protection against opposing rain teams. Instead of the battle boiling down to the slugfest it often becomes when two hyper offensive rain teams face off, the Lanturn user has valuable resistances to Water, Ice, and Electric backed by high stats on their side. For example, a Gorebyss running Hidden Power Electric instead of Grass can hardly touch Lanturn, giving the Lanturn user a free shot with Thunder at a team that would consist mostly of Water-types, with the added paralysis chance thrown in to wreck any rain sweeper hit by it. Lanturn is also very light and Grass Knot hits it for only 40 BP, meaning that a max Special Attack Life Orb Ludicolo can only manage 35% to Lanturn with it.</p>

<p>Chances are that an offensive rain team won't have space to fit in a Wish passer to keep Lanturn's health up, but some clever playing with Volt Absorb can be just as effective. It's not that hard to pack some Pokemon to draw fire for Lanturn on a Rain Dance team. Kabutops, Omastar, Gorebyss, Azumarill - all attract Electric-type attacks for Lanturn to soak up. In terms of typing, Ludicolo provides a Ground resist for Lanturn, while in return, Lanturn provides a resistance to Flying and the rain support Ludicolo needs to be effective. Altaria makes for a good partner as well for Lanturn, immune to or 4x resisting both of its weaknesses, and also with the ability to set up Rain Dance itself and provide further team support with Heal Bell if need be. While it does share a common weakness to Ground with Lanturn, Muk can be a very valuable teammate for Lanturn because of its ability to easily take on Venusaur and Leafeon, the threatening Grass-types Lanturn inevitably draws in. Muk can also set up Rain Dance as well, and it soaks up hazardous Toxic Spikes that would slash the sweeping potential of the likes of Ludicolo and Kabutops.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Lanturn's most important team requirement as a defensive Pokemon is typing, and as such, this should be the base of any team relationship involving Lanturn. Lanturn's typing leaves it with two important weaknesses: Grass and Ground. As previously mentioned, Flying-types absorb both of these typed attacks impeccably, especially the bulkier Flying-types local to UU. Bulky Grass-types like Leafeon, Tangrowth, and Venusaur complement Lanturn nicely by absorbing STAB attacks from their Grass-type ancestors and also having the ability to switch into Ground-type attacks. While Venusaur has an easier time switching into powerful Leaf Storms coming from the likes of opposing Venusaur or Sceptile, the less common Tangrowth, Leafeon, and even Exeggutor don't mind taking Earthquakes and can heal Lanturn through Wish (in the case of the former two). In any case, having solid counters to the most common Ground- and Grass-type threats of UU is a non-negotiable desicion when it comes to Lanturn's survival. The most important threats to think about when choosing defensive teammates for Lanturn are probably Donphan, Dugtrio, Ludicolo, Sceptile, Torterra, and Venusaur.</p>

<p>Lanturn, although not cursed with a Stealth Rock weakness, is very susceptible to entry hazards. Having no form of recovery besides Rest makes switching into Spikes repeatedly while also attempting to absorb Blaziken Fire Blasts and other powerful attacks a deathwish. Similarly, Toxic Spikes make Lanturn easy to stall out by Chansey, Registeel, and Clefable. To rid Lanturn of these needles in its side, a Rapid Spinner is a worthwhile option. Not only will it help to preserve Lanturn, but it will also allow Lanturn's Flying-type teammates to not worry about Stealth Rock. Some Pokemon to consider for this role are Hitmontop, who beats Chansey, Registeel, and Clefable (all dangerous defensive counters to Lanturn), Claydol, who sports an immunity to Ground-type attacks, and Donphan himself, who can beat some of the strongest physical threats of UU and has access to Ice Shard to finish off any fast Grass-types who can set up on Lanturn. Poison-types who soak up Toxic Spikes automatically are a worthy addition to Lanturn's team as well. Grass+Poison types are especially good choices for this role as they provide additional typing support. Venusaur and Vileplume are the most reliable of these Pokemon, while Muk and Drapion are also decent choices should you have a reliable Ground-resist.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Hydro Pump is viable on all sets as a more powerful Water STAB attack (especially on the more offensive sets) and is recommended for use in OU, where a neutral Surf will fail to do significant damage to the likes of Zapdos and Metagross. With a Life Orb held, Lanturn can become quite the offensive presence when sporting Agility and its three favorite coverage moves in Hydro Pump, Thunderbolt, and Ice Beam. However, the EVs needed to be invested in Speed, and the lack of Leftovers recovery hurts Lanturn's walling potential so should be avoided. Stockpile can turn Lanturn into a threatening tank after a few boosts; however, it will usually be forced out by a strong STAB Earthquake or Leaf Storm.</p>

[EVs]
<p>Lanturn will generally want to focus on special over physical defense primarily because its typing allows it to easily take some of the most popular special attacks combined with the fact that its Special Defense stats is significantly superior to its physical counterpart. A high amount of Special Defense (you'll usually want over 200 EVs) is required to take neutral hits like Mismagius's Shadow Ball and Espeon's Psychic, while 40 HP EVs allow Lanturn to take 4 consecutive Seismic Tosses (even though its primary user in UU - Chansey - isn't a Pokemon Lanturn wants to face one-on-one). 76 Speed EVs allow Lanturn to outspeed Nidoqueen and Claydol should they be brave enough to switch in on an Electric attack and expect to outspeed; however, placing these EVs in the Defense or HP stat can aid in survivability. The remaining EVs can be placed in Special Attack to complement Lanturn's great attacking coverage and relatively low attacking stats. Placing a large amount of EVs in Defense might allow Lanturn to take a few more physical beatings, but it generally isn't wise to rely on Lanturn to take those kinds of hits.</p>

<p>In OU, giving Lanturn a Calm nature, 252 Special Defense EVs, and 40 HP EVs allows it to survive special assaults from even some of the most threatening attackers in the tier (like Modest Salamence's Choice Specs Draco Meteor). With this spread, Lanturn will almost never be 2HKOed by Timid Life Orb Zapdos's Hidden Power Grass and has enough Special Defense to switch into nearly all other Electric- and Water-types without worry. 192 Special Attack EVs are required to OHKO most Salamence with Ice Beam, and 40 Speed EVs are also helpful in beating Skarmory and other base 70s to the punch (absorbing a Meteor Mash from a weakened Metagross and taking it out before it gets the chance to smack Lanturn with Earthquake isn't a bad scenario), however, usually Lanturn will need all the defensive EVs it can gather to take neutral hits.</p>

<p>Although Lanturn may seem to be an interesting competitive choice in Ubers since it resists all of Kyogre's main attacks, it will struggle to take repeated beatings (resisted or not) from the behemoths of the tier; even a 252/252 Calm Lanturn has a chance of being 2HKOed by Modest Choice Specs Kyogre's Water Spout.</p>

[Opinion]

<p>Lanturn's best use doesn't really depend on what tier it's being used in, but more on what Pokemon are being used in the respective tier; Lanturn can switch into most Fire-, Water-, Electric, and Ice special attackers with relative ease even in OU. In UU, however, is where Lanturn really shines. Almost no other Pokemon can hold its own in the diverse special attacking metagame of UU, catching switches on bulky and offensive Fire- and Water-types alike. Even with all of these formidable resistances, however, Lanturn simply cannot take repeated beatings, resisted or not, without proper team support. Smart play and knowing Lanturn's limits are important when using it. With enough practice and experience, Lanturn makes a unique and colorful addition to any team.<p>

[Counters]

<p>In UU, specific Pokemon who can switch in neutrally on Lanturn's main attacking moves and come prepared with a super effective STAB attack do well. Quagsire, Ludicolo, and Gastrodon are good examples, all of which are armed with either Earthquake or a super effective Grass-type attack. Other Grass-types do exceedingly well at stopping Lanturn, especially those who don't mind taking a Thunder Wave while switching in; bulkier Grass-type Pokemon like Tangrowth can absorb the paralyzation in confidence that they won't have to worry about the more dangerous damaging status. Chansey can switch in on any status moves and simply dispose of them when she switches out, meanwhile absorbing any weak special attacks Lanturn throws at her.</p>

<p>Dugtrio can trap and kill Lanturn if it can get in without eating Surf. It will survive Ice Beam at full health most of the time unless Lanturn is running more than 247 Special Attack (which is close to its maximum without a Modest nature). Other strong Ground-type attackers in UU like Donphan, Nidoking, and Nidoqueen can KO Lanturn if they get the chance to switch in.</p>

<p>In general, most strong physical attackers can either switch in and revenge kill Lanturn after it has taken down a member of your team or switch in on a predictable resisted attack and take a chunk out of Lanturn, considering its mediocre Defense stat. Faster Ground-types do well; however most will have to watch out for STAB Water-type moves, especially from more offensive Lanturn. Toxic and Toxic Spikes help to wear Lanturn down enough to sweep, and are popularly used against bulky Water-types for this reason.</p>
 
Why aren't there any descriptions about the sets?

Modest AgiliTurn (Max SAtk) has 358 SAtk with a Life Orb. Only one point less than Jolly ScarfChomp in Uber. According to your analysis, it is a bad option. Switch it in on a Pokemon to force a switch and use Agility on that turn and you have the boost and freedom of attacking. And why are you using Hydro Pump over Surf on AgiliTurn? A miss will cost you your Lanturn. Surf is much safer. Lanturn is frail without EV investment, so safety is important. At the other side, Lanturn needs the power with its paltry 76 base SAtk. You should change Hydro Pump to Hydro Pump/Surf. The sets are working tested standards.

ParaFusion should be included, and AgiliTurn should definitely be included, and also works in OU (with Surf, I use it in OU to counter Zapdos).

Good analysis and sets if you have detailed descriptions, but I suppose you are working on that. 7/10.
 

Bologo

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I can write up the OU parafusion set that I always use if you'd like. I'll obviously do a real write-up later, but here's my thinking on paper (and I've been testing the set for months and months):

Lanturn @Leftovers
EVs: 40 HP / 216 Def / 252 SpD
Volt Absorb
Calm nature

- Thunder Wave
- Confuse Ray
- Thunderbolt / Discharge
- Ice Beam

As a side note for OU EVs, Lanturn REALLY needs physical defense EVs in that tier, because neutral attacks (and even resisted attacks) will hurt him a lot more in OU than in UU. And those 192 Special Attack EVs are absolutely not needed, because Lanturn OHKOs Salamence with Ice Beam if Stealth Rock is up, so with Stealth Rock, it saves a lot of EVs. I also never found the 40 Speed EVs to be particularly helpful at all, because Skarmory's not exactly going to be staying in on Lanturn from fear of death. The only thing Skarmory can switch in on is Ice Beam, and if it tries to Roost off the Electric weakness, it's gonna get parafused.

Therefore, I saw 216 (212 + the 4 extra) free EVs come from that, and I decided to put those in physical defense. This lets Lanturn take several physical hits with physical defenses very close to Vaporeon's (and he's mostly seen as a mixed wall). Lanturn can even take a LO Mixmence's Earthquake, survive, and Ice Beam/Thunder Wave his ass. Believe me, these Defense EVs help a lot and are specially tailored toward OU.

Another thing of note in this set is Thunderbolt over Discharge. This seems odd, but I honestly like having better control over my paralyzing, especially when I already have Thunder Wave. Also, Thunderbolt is a lot stronger, and it can actually net an almost guaranteed OHKO on Gyarados without Stealth Rock if it's not up, and Discharge is never a OHKO without Stealth Rock. Plus, it helps Lanturn compensate for his below average offenses on this set.
 
I would agree with putting the parafusion set in the analysis, as it seems viable. I would be more hesitant about agiliturn (as aquamilotic dubbed it) since it lacks the power to actually do decent damage; 76 base SpA is pretty poor. For an example, Registeel isn't even 3KOed.

For the team options set, Roserade makes an excellent partener to lanturn in UU. It can switch into all the counters you list and set up spikes or leech seed. Opposing grass types get a sludge bomb, while Quagsire and its ilk run in fear of grass attacks. Chansey doesn't threaten Roserade, and if it stays in you just get to set up more entry hazards.

This looks like a solid analysis overall.

aquamilotic said:
Why aren't there any descriptions about the sets?
This:
diinbong said:
This is the skeleton of the analysis.
 

Flora

Yep, that tasted purple!
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Small nitpick:

[SET]
name: Sleep Talk
move 1: Surf
move 2: Discharge
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
ability: Volt Absorb
nature: Calm
evs: 40 / 76 Def / 252 SpD / 76 Spe
Shouldn't it be 216?
 

jrrrrrrr

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Is this going to get finished? It's been posted for almost 2 months now (and 3 weeks since its last edit) and nothing has been done...

Modest AgiliTurn (Max SAtk) has 358 SAtk with a Life Orb. Only one point less than Jolly ScarfChomp in Uber. According to your analysis, it is a bad option. Switch it in on a Pokemon to force a switch and use Agility on that turn and you have the boost and freedom of attacking. And why are you using Hydro Pump over Surf on AgiliTurn? A miss will cost you your Lanturn. Surf is much safer. Lanturn is frail without EV investment, so safety is important. At the other side, Lanturn needs the power with its paltry 76 base SAtk. You should change Hydro Pump to Hydro Pump/Surf. The sets are working tested standards.
Agility Lanturn sounds nice on paper but you won't be hitting much with that pathetic 76 base Special Attack (especially in OU where things like Celebi, Latias, Blissey and Zapdos can shrug off everything you throw at them), even if you do have two of the better STABs in the game.

ParaFusion should be included, and AgiliTurn should definitely be included, and also works in OU (with Surf, I use it in OU to counter Zapdos).
Parafusion is one of the few things Lanturn can do, I would definitely suggest adding this set.
 

cim

happiness is such hard work
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Why aren't there any descriptions about the sets?
Switch it in on a Pokemon to force a switch and use Agility on that turn and you have the boost and freedom of attacking.
That is literally how every set that ever features a stat up move "works". How does Lanturn being able to do this somehow make the set effective? More importantly, how does this contradict anything he wrote?

And why are you using Hydro Pump over Surf on AgiliTurn? A miss will cost you your Lanturn. Surf is much safer.
Being a big accuracy whore I would agree but since Agility Lanturn is so bad (bad enough that it should be OO at best) I would use Hydro Pump just to hope to do damage.

At the other side, Lanturn needs the power with its paltry 76 base SAtk.
Hey look, you figured out why the set doesn't work.

You should change Hydro Pump to Hydro Pump/Surf. The sets are working tested standards.
A "standard" is something that's commonly used. Lanturn's "standard", if it even has one is a tank set.

ParaFusion should be included, and AgiliTurn should definitely be included, and also works in OU (with Surf, I use it in OU to counter Zapdos).
Hidden Power Grass? I must ask what kind of Zapdos you've been battling, most have that... "Works" should mean usable in a variety of situations. Lanturn simply is outclassed in OU, though awesome and all.

I completely agree that Parafusion is pretty key to what Lanturn can do.

Good analysis and sets if you have detailed descriptions, but I suppose you are working on that. 7/10.
This isn't the RMT forum :P
 

Bologo

Have fun with birds and bees.
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Hidden Power Grass? I must ask what kind of Zapdos you've been battling, most have that... "Works" should mean usable in a variety of situations. Lanturn simply is outclassed in OU, though awesome and all.

I completely agree that Parafusion is pretty key to what Lanturn can do.
You do realize that Hidden Power Grass is still very weak on Lanturn, and he can parafuse Zapdos so that he can barely even use it right? He just needs to use Thunder Wave and then use Confuse Ray so he can be guaranteed to the parafusion. Also, only 27.6% of Zapdos have HP Grass. -.-

Also, Lanturn is simply outclassed in OU? You better back up your claim with some good evidence, because I've been using Lanturn for months in OU, and in my opinion, it's not outclassed at all. Lanturn is only a Water-type by name, because as it stands, it's a lot different than the other Water-types in OU.

EDIT: I suppose I should explain that last statement. Lanturn is the only Water-type that doesn't fear Electric attacks, rather it loves them. Also, it takes next to nothing from Grass Knot, with Grass Knot having only 40 BP (80 BP since it's SE). It's nearly impossible to flinchhax to death from Togekiss & Jirachi, since Lanturn 2x resists Flying, and 4x resists Steel. Other Water-types are easily flinched (at least by Togekiss). Lastly, Lanturn is the only Water-type that actually does parafusion decently. Starmie seems like it would be good at it, but Lanturn is far bulkier, and although it has a recovery move, it's Pursuit bait, and has several common weaknesses. Also, if it includes Recover, it only has 1 moveslot for an attack. Therefore, IMO, Lanturn is able to do things that no other Water-type can boast, and is definitely the best parafuser out of the Water-types.

Well, outclassed is the wrong word, but the niche it fills really isn't one that is of much competitive use at all. Blissey, Tyranitar, whatever will do whatever you want Lanturn to do better, generally.
Lanturn isn't just a Special Wall, it's more of Utility than anything. It just happens that taking Special hits very well is a bonus. Blissey and Tyranitar kinda have nothing to do with Lanturn other than the fact that they can also take Special hits. Also, what you just said doesn't exactly back up your claim...
 

cim

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Well, outclassed is the wrong word, but the niche it fills really isn't one that is of much competitive use at all. Blissey, Tyranitar, whatever will do whatever you want Lanturn to do better, generally.
 
That is literally how every set that ever features a stat up move "works". How does Lanturn being able to do this somehow make the set effective? More importantly, how does this contradict anything he wrote?

Being a big accuracy whore I would agree but since Agility Lanturn is so bad (bad enough that it should be OO at best) I would use Hydro Pump just to hope to do damage.

Hey look, you figured out why the set doesn't work.

A "standard" is something that's commonly used. Lanturn's "standard", if it even has one is a tank set.

Hidden Power Grass? I must ask what kind of Zapdos you've been battling, most have that... "Works" should mean usable in a variety of situations. Lanturn simply is outclassed in OU, though awesome and all.

I completely agree that Parafusion is pretty key to what Lanturn can do.

This isn't the RMT forum :P
Lanturn has the benefit to hit a lot of Pokemon for Super Effective damage and it can 'sweep' lategame if the most Pokemon of the opponent are killed. And of course, any opposing Blissey should be dead. Surf is more reliable. I agree, Lanturn's standard is a defensive set. I battled Zapdos with Hidden Power Grass and it doesn't do a lot of damage. There is no Pokemon outclassing Lanturn, there is no Pokemon like Lanturn (great HP, Water/Electric typing, BoltBeam resistance and Agility) who does it better. Lanturn is a nice counter to a lot of Pokemon in OU (an in UU), for example: Zapdos and Jolteon. ParaFusion is also good, but Lanturn can do more. Of course this isn't the RMT forum, but I can still rate an analysis. Maybe AgiliTurn can be in the analysis, but as the last set, and say it lacks power, but it is definitely usuable and worth to be in the analysis. Read my comparision to Garchomp is my first post in this thread.
 

Stellar

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If a set is being debated can we please just actually test the set and keep logs to show its effectiveness / failure instead of just theorymoning everything? The reason that so many analyses are in the shape they are in is because they were based on faulty theorymon.
 
Leafeon should get a special mention in team options. They cover each other pretty well. Flying, Ice, and Fire attacks go to Lanturn and Grass and Ground go to Leafeon. Leafeon can also provide Wish support to Lanturn which is extremely useful.
 
ooh yes I'm picking this up again now and thanks for all the comments guys!!

Chris, Bologo, and Jrr basically said everything concerning the mentioning of an Agility set: it sounds okay on paper but in reality it just is both not powerful or bulky enough. Yeah I've tested it a lot and honestly it just doesn't cut it. Every time I've had it on a team its needed huge amount of support and proper supportive play to do decently at best..

And as you can tell I was kind of on the fence about adding a ParaFusion set in consideration of the small amount of time it makes way into competitive play but since it's one of Lanturn's precious niches (especially in OU) I guess it'll have at least Bologo's set. A UU version/variation will be tested but is on a lower list of priorities.. thanks again

edit!! also I'm editing the evs for the sets as I left a lot out for some reason...

Bologo edit!! ooh that came off wrong but that's irrelevant and I'll definetly just add in UU comments to the OU parafusion set. But it looks to me like the most popular set is just the standard Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Surf/Thunder Wave, no? Parafusion will be second to the top at least until I test it in UU. thanks!
 

Bologo

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And as you can tell I was kind of on the fence about adding a ParaFusion set in consideration of the small amount of time it makes way into competitive play but since it's one of Lanturn's precious niches (especially in OU) I guess it'll have at least Bologo's set. A UU version/variation will be tested but is on a lower list of priorities.. thanks again
OU

| Lanturn | Move | Surf | 78.4 |
| Lanturn | Move | Ice Beam | 68.6 |
| Lanturn | Move | Thunderbolt | 58.1 |
| Lanturn | Move | Thunder Wave | 51.6 |
| Lanturn | Move | Confuse Ray | 38.1 |

UU

| Lanturn | Move | Surf | 88.5 |
| Lanturn | Move | Ice Beam | 69.6 |
| Lanturn | Move | Thunderbolt | 54.8 |
| Lanturn | Move | Thunder Wave | 41.2 |
| Lanturn | Move | Confuse Ray | 25.2 |

In contrast to your bolded part, according to the statistics, the ParaFusion set was actually the most popular Lanturn moveset in both OU and UU, meaning that it should actually be at the top of the analysis.

It really doesn't need a separate set for OU and UU though. The OU Parafusion set works just fine in UU as well, if not better than the one currently onsite. I already put some references to UU in it, so it should be fine for this analysis.
 
I've used an Agility LO set, and i'm sorry but it definately deserves its own set and not just other options. It can completely wreck teams without Chansey after they've been worn just just a little. Surf(or Hydro Pump)/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam gives amazing coverage and it can set up on so many things. Think Milotic/Blastoise/Magneton/Lapras/Slowbro etc... It's probably one of the best late-game sweepers the tier has to offer.
 

Bologo

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<p>In OU, giving Lanturn a Calm nature, 252 Special Defense EVs, and 40 HP EVs allows it to survive special assaults (like Modest Salamence's Choice Specs Draco Meteor) from even some of the most threatening attackers in the tier. With this spread, Lanturn will almost never be 2HKOed by Timid Life Orb Zapdos' Hidden Power Grass, and has enough Special Defense to switch into nearly all other Electric- and Water-types without worry. 192 Special Attack EVs are required to OHKO most Salamence, and 40 Speed EVs are also helpful in beating Skarmory and other base 70s to the punch (absorbing a Meteor Mash from a weakened Metagross and taking it out before it gets the chance to smack Lanturn with Earthquake isn't a bad scenario), however usually Lanturn will need all the defensive EVs it can gather to take neutral hits.</p>
Please fix this part of the EV section. Those aren't the OU EVs anymore.
 

Raj

CAP Playtesting Expert
There's a quite awesome Lanturn set that KD24 was going to submit a while back ago that I believe deserves mentioning in here:

Lanturn @ Lefties
Modest
Volt Absorb
40 HP, 56 Def, 160 Speed, 252 Sp Att
~Agility
~Charge Beam
~Ice Beam
~Surf/Hydro Pump

I'm sure the premise of the set is identifiable. Quite a few people have heard of or used this despite it not being in the analysis.
 
Wasn't there a sub charge beam set before? I remember using one that someone had put up and it was effective enough.

Lanturn can set up on Chansey and SlowBro for sure. Probably could set up on non Haze Milotic as well if it gets a Sub up before Toxic hits.
A +5 Modest Hydro Pump does 52.13% - 61.51% to Chansey.
+6 Surf does 47.02% - 55.54%


Modest 252 SpA, At least 40 HP
218 EV's left for outspeeding whatever you want to, and defenses.
Substitute
Charge Beam
Hyrdro Pump
Ice Beam/Toxic
 
All the offensive sets aren't very good imo but I'll test some of the suggested ones if it'll make you happy!!

Also editing OU EV section.
 
This analysis is complete now in my opinion. If anyone catches anything feel free to post but I think this can be uploaded.
 
40 HP / 140 SpA / 216 SpD / 76 Spe = 472 evs. I think you meant to write 252 SpD Evs for the Special Tank set. Because I was going to use that set today and when I added up the EVs, it came to 472.
 
I think that if Lanturn is truly meant to sponge special attacks and not just serve as a niche counter to certain Pokemon like bulky waters or Rotom, its HP needs to be upped, despite Lanturn's large HP stat. For example (yes I'm aware this will probably be rendered moot in a month), Timid SpecsYanmega's Bug Buzz does 43-51% to 40 HP Lanturn, while only doing 38-45% with max HP. A more relevant example would be Life Orb Moltres, who does 44-53% with Life Orb HP Grass with only 40 HP EVs, but only does 39-47% with max HP, which is a fairly significant difference. Offensive Life Orb Milotic's HP Grass does 38-45% to 40 HP Lanturn, while only doing 34-40% to max HP Lanturn. These aren't moves that Lanturn would like to switch into, but having the extra bulk can't hurt in case of a misprediction or if you absolutely need it to take a hit.

I know that Lanturn isn't supposed to be used as a one-size-fits-all special wall, but the extra bulk can't hurt. The Speed EVs are largely unnecessary, and from what I can tell, the SpA EVs are completely arbitrary.

Maxing HP isn't a dramatic change in defensive abilities, as it'll only increase by about 13% in bulkiness, and that's if you max HP (which you probably shouldn't, as some SpA EVs are necessary to take on some things like Milotic and Rotom), but I find that extra bit of bulk much preferable to outspeeding a couple obscure Pokemon that beat you anyways (their Earthquakes hurt you more than your your Surf hurts them I believe).
 

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