And It Sweeps Again! OU RMT

How did you like my team?


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I didn't say you did, but if it isn't (I saw that you could sweep with it :P) then Scizor would be an option. Scarf Latias can take on a +1 Salamence and threaten a KO with Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor, so that would revenge your Mence problem. Be sure to run Timid so that you outpace +Natured Mences. You always get a OHKO with SR in using Dragon Pulse.
 
Yeah, If DDMence is giving you trouble giving Latias a Choice Scarf would be a good idea. You still have Raikou for Calm Minding.

I've been using this set and it works pretty well:
Latias@Choice Scarf
Nature: Timid
EVs: 82Hp, 176 Speed, 252 SpA
-Draco Meteor
-Thunderbolt
-Surf
-Trick

The 252 Special Attack EVs are obvious because you want to do as much damage as possible, 176 Speed EVs and a Timid Nature lets Latias hit a speed stat of 495, which is just enough to outrun a max speed Salamence after a Dragon Dance and the remaining EVs are just put into Hp to make Latias a little more bulky.

Latias can serve as your revenge killer in place of Heatran if you decide to give it a Choice Scarf but if you make this change things like Tyranitar and Mamoswine will have a much easier time against your team so I recommend replacing Heatran with a Swampert. A standard Mixpert would be fine, I think.

Swampert@Leftovers
Nature: Relaxed
Evs: 252Hp, 252 Def, 8 SpA
-Ice Beam
-Earthquake
-Surf
-Roar/Protect/Toxic

I recommend Toxic in the last slot, because it will help against bulky waters that could be annoying to your team if Raikou goes down early for some reason, and can also help wear down any Rotom that lacks rest who could be difficult to handle without Heatran.

Hope I helped. Good luck.
 
Wait, i didn't say anything about how much i hate swampert in this thread? Well, too bad... I'm using the lati set and its pretty good... I need another replace ment for heatran... I dont want 1/2 my team with a Scarf
 
Alright, well remember that your Heatran is there to revenge kill Lucario. Mamoswine can be taken care of but your Latias needs HP Fire to damage Lucario severely. There is about a 50% chance a full health Latias will be KO'd to a +2 E-speed, and odds are without Recover you'll find yourself at even lower healths, so even a +1 would be threatening. You can do 64%-76% with HP Fire 70, and only 44%-51% with Surf. Suddenly Lucario is a lot more threatening.

Now we either need to change a move to HP Fire or we need to find a new Luke counter. Luke counters I can think of are Gyarados and Gliscor. Gliscor I'm not in favor of currently, so I'll go through Gyarados.

Gyarados has a nice ability in Intimidate to knock down that +2 on the switch to a +1. At +1 It can do 48%-57% to a BulkyDos, while you always KO with EQ (even if you hold lefties). That said, I think it makes a nice counter, and can even set up on Bulky Waters lacking HP Electric (see Suicune) although most do have it.
 
Sigh... I have to counter luke and salamence... WAIT! Instead of Heatran i could put in something with mach punch or vacuum wave! I could get NPape or Specs Luke! what is better? can some one test it or tell me which is better?
 
I copied this from smogon... OK my hands are up, just don't kill me
. If Stone Edge and Ice Punch are absent, Salamence can switch into Lucario thanks to Intimidate, survive a boosted ExtremeSpeed, and follow up with a brutal Earthquake or Fire Blast. So do i really need a counter for luke?
 
What...doesn't Scarf Latias revenge kill it. I mean really there is no "definite counter" to Mence, but Nape could work, I suppose.

Infernape @ Life Orb
Nature: Naive/Hasty
EV's: 252 Atk/64 Sp.A/192 Spd
Moves:
- HP Ice (70)
- Flamethrower/Overheat
- Mach Punch
- Close Combat/Stone Edge

HP Ice can deal with the dragons, and at 64 Sp.A EV's it still KO's Mence and Flygon both. At Max Attack Mach Punch can KO Lucario 100% of the time with SR in. Then you choose between CC and Stone Edge; I am going to reccomend CC for more power there, but Stone Edge can help deal with Pokemon like Zapdos and Gyarados. Finally Overheat is power, flamethrower is consistency.
 
After i put him in, I started losing... Well, not all the time, but b4, i usuallly lost only like 1 every 20 games.... Im just not fond of infernape... And i've never seen a single luke in 20 games...
 
I dunno how you aren't seing any Lucarios, they're on quite a few teams. Number 6 on the most used OU pokemon. If it sets up it will proceed to sweep your team, and most teams are Luke-weak and lose this way. So yeah, I'd say you need one. Oh yeah, when you mentioned losing- was that nape or luke?
 
Well with heatran I had 3 Choice users and i had to switch a lot. And its ugly when u only have choicers left on your team... so it was about the same
 
What about an offensive Zapdos? This would help solve your SD Lucario problem.

Zapdos@Leftovers
Nature: Timid
EVs 4 Hp, 252 SpA, 252 Speed
-Thunderbolt
-Heat Wave
-Hidden Power Grass (For Swampert, mainly)
-Roost

You could use Life Orb over Leftovers but I wouldn't recommend it because this Zapdos isn't very bulky and it needs all the extra recovery it can get. This Zapdos is faster that Lucario, can OHKO it with Heat Wave and takes around around 50% from Extremespeed (I'm not 100% sure on this, so feel free to correct me) so Zapdos can switch it to stealth rock after Lucario faints something, take the Extremespeed and OHKO with Heat Wave.

Gliscor would probably be a better replacement now that I think about it because you already have a powerful electric type in Raikou.
 
That Zapdos takes 78%-92% from a +2 E-speed, KO with SR damage. The Physically Defensive Zapdos from the analysis takes 47%-55% from a +2 E-speed, and can still manage 83%-98% with Heat Wave, generally cutting it off from sweeping.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
EV's: 248 HP/ 228 Def/ 32 Spd
Moves:
- Heat Wave
- HP Grass
- Roost
- Thunderbolt

Mamoswine of course must also be dealt with seeing as how Heatran was your Mamoswine killer. Zapdos' Heat Wave from the same as above can't KO it (73%-87%) at full health, but if its been weakened before then you should be good. It does take a good 45%-54% from Adamant CB Ice Shard though, so be sure you can take the hit before switching it in.

EDIT: Rotom-H can do the job as well. With 188 Spd and a Timid nature it outruns Adamant Lucario by one speed point

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
EV's: 252 HP/ 68 Def/ 188 Spd
Moves:
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- HP Grass/Shadow Ball/Sub
- Will-o-Wisp

This Rotom outspeeds Adamant Lucarios and KO's with Overheat. Mamoswine is outrun by miles and KO'd by Overheat as well. You only take 31%-37% from Ice Shard. It's up to you for the 3rd move. Shadow Ball provides extra STAB, HP Grass takes on Swampy and friends and Sub blocks status.
 
Yeah, most people use Adamant Luke. Jolly Luke would outspeed the Rotom, but the reason for using Jolly Luke is to hit Gliscor with Ice Punch. For this reason, it JOlly Luke doesn't carry Crunch.

+2 Ice Punch from Jolly Luke does this to that Rotom:
638 Atk vs 267 Def & 304 HP (75 Base Power): 129 - 152 (42.43% - 50.00%)
 
There is no better choice between Discharge and TBolt. Discharge has +20% chance of Para at the cost of -15BP. It depends on which your team could use more, para support or hitting things harder.
 

Taylor

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This thread is an absolute mess. I will lock this thread because the amount of double posting and bumps here and there is unacceptable.
 
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