Advanced Tiers Revisited revisited

[obi]

OK, you guys don't seem to be reading anything, so I'm only going to say this once, and then ignore anyone who doesn't seem to be able to read.

It doesn't matter how strong a Pokemon is. If no one used Salamence, it would not be OU. It would be put into BL. The only time strength matters is for banning from UU. So you can move BLs to UU based on power, and UUs to BL based on power, but not BL to OU or UU to OU or OU to UU.

 

[Brood_Star]

OK, you guys don't seem to be reading anything, so I'm only going to say this once, and then ignore anyone who doesn't seem to be able to read.

It doesn't matter how strong a Pokemon is. If no one used Salamence, it would not be OU. It would be put into BL. The only time strength matters is for banning from UU. So you can move BLs to UU based on power, and UUs to BL based on power, but not BL to OU or UU to OU or OU to UU.

Sorry if that's what chaos meant, but really, what's the point of it? The tiers would be totally fucked up. Tiers are meant to divide things into categories of strength. Top tier will mean the <insert item> at the top, or namely the stongest. Strongest. That's what a tier is. Otherwise, the tiers would change constantly. I'm pretty sure the reason usage was added was because people use stronger pokemon to win.

Of course, this should be based off tournaments only since not all people play competitively to win 100%. This is why Salamence is OU and Venusaur should be BL. Although both are very strong, one is stronger and therefore used more

 

[Slobroking]

Sorry if that's what chaos meant, but really, what's the point of it? The tiers would be totally fucked up. Tiers are meant to divide things into categories of strength. Top tier will mean the <insert item> at the top, or namely the stongest. Strongest. That's what a tier is. Otherwise, the tiers would change constantly. I'm pretty sure the reason usage was added was because people use stronger pokemon to win.

Of course, this should be based off tournaments only since not all people play competitively to win 100%. This is why Salamence is OU and Venusaur should be BL. Although both are very strong, one is stronger and therefore used more

The thing is that BLs cannot be used in UU anyway so it wouldnt matter if salamence is was BL(not that it would happen anyway)

 

[Brood_Star]

Makes more sense now that I reread it. "Based on Power" and not listing UU to NU was confusing. :<

EDIT: Strength should matter between UU-NU too

 

[Yuki [old]]

Vigoroth is used in UU a bit; add him.

Marowak is BL, too good for uu for damn sure but noone uses him in standard.

 

[el_B]

Standards

• Charizard -> BL. Despite being fanboy Pokémon #2 I haven't seen one in ages.
• Dusclops -> BL. I hardly encounter any pure stall teams nowadays and therefore even less Dusclops
• Exeggutor -> BL. Has options, but no one uses it.
• Gardevoir -> BL. Same with Exeggutor.
• Ludicolo -> BL. Again, a fine Pokémon absolutely no one uses.
• Marowak -> BL. Hardly ever used nowadays..
• Moltres -> Should stay OU, I don't know if it's just me, but I've seen quite some lately.
• Ninjask -> BL. A lot of potential, but again, no one uses it.
• Regirock -> BL. Does anyone use this?
• Rhydon -> BL. Cool and useable Pokémon that gets no use at all.
• Steelix -> Should stay OU, I see it pretty often.
• Tauros -> BL. Never seen one.
• Umbreon -> Maybe BL. Not sure cause I've seen some, but not many at all.
• Venusaur -> Maybe BL. Same as Umbreon.

Borderline

• Arcanine -> Should stay BL, because it totally wrecks havoc in UU.
• Houndoom -> I would even say OU, for I've seen quite a lot of them lately.

 

[CasMat]

Okay these have already been mentioned, but Butterfree is NU, Charizard Venusaur Ludicolo Marowak Flygon Slaking Should probably be in BL; I'm not sure about Claydol Tauros Rhydon and Regirock. I think if I knew what the least used Pokemon that still deserves to be standard is, it would be easier to put stuff into BL/UU by comparing it's use to that Pokemon... Basically what is the Pokemon that, if one less person used it, would become BL/UU? Actually nevermind, no one will agree on this...

Also, I think Cradily could be BL and Armaldo UU (lol place switch). And if you go by stats, Mantine is as good as Skarm, but we all know that is not true.. still Mantine could be BL...

As a note on the NFEs that end up being Standard when FE, Shelgon could be considered for UU... It has 20 more Defense and Rock Head instead of Intimidate, not to mention that besides Attack and Defense, the rest of its stats are subpar... It's basically a weaker Pinsir statwise, it's only real advantages over Pinsir are Type, with Dragon Dance and Double Edge (without recoil) over Swords Dance and Focus Punch..

 

[Arcturus]

As for my points:

I see some people asking for Flygon to be moved to BL. I am in disagreement with this. Flygon is quite common (I even use one now), and it works great in tandem with a starting Tyranitar, it takes no damage from Sandstorm, and has a pretty decent set of moves. Salamence may be the better pure sweeper, but it can't give you another immunity to Sandstorm on a Tyrani-centric team, and not to mention that Flygon causes some switches with the Screech set. I feel Flygon should stay OU.

I am in support of moving Dragonite down to BL. While it might have an awesome attack stat, it's not used as much as Salamence because it lacks Speed to effectively sweep a team. Because of it's lower speed it makes it a harder switch-in if you aren't using Dragon Dance; your opponent can just bring in someone faster and screw you over. It's not a very practical sweeper, and most of what Dragonite does can be done better by other pokemon that are more commonly used.

Gardevoir should be in the BL tier as well. I hardly see it being used, most people use Alakazam for special attacking and a lesser pokemon like Hypno (which has better defenses) as a support type. It also has a not-too-stellar movepool.

 

[Sir Spanky]

Ok sorry if I mentioned anything about power in my post. People actually use Vigaroth/Pikachu a fair amount in UU so they should be added.

Tangela ia simply not fucking used in UU at all and is NU on all other tier lists.

Bellossom is very debatable. Many sites call it NU, but I find if Flareon is sticking in UU, then so should Bellossom.

Nobody uses Butterfree in UU at all. WOW IT CAN DOUBLE POWDER! So can belly/vileplume etc. Hell Venomoth is used more in NU than Butterfree and that is a tier below :-/

I think hitmonchan should be NU too. If people are going to use a hitmon they will use CBLee for its speed, or Top for its tankyness, Chan just kinda gets ignored/not used.

Again, if we are talking usage, I think Linoone should be BL. I dunno if it is just because of the 'Killoone' gimmick, but I often come across a BDLinoone using my OU team, and this thing is classed two tiers below <_<

Just a few more suggestions there.

Spanky

 

[chaos]

Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic. Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.

No more posts about your personal opinion about the tiers and how they should be setup. Wikey, you totally missed the point of all of this. Reread my post. Reread it again after that. And then don't post something about how you think the tiers should be about power, because I specifically said not to go off topic in this thread. For the millionth time, if we combine OU and BL into "standard" we lose the added bonus of having the tier list represent both usage and power. BL is UU, except banned from the UU metagame. For the love of god, no more posts like this.

If you don't understand the tiers and what they are used for, DON'T POST IN THIS TOPIC. WE DON'T NEED YOUR ASSISTANCE; YOU ARE CLUELESS ABOUT HOW IT WORKS.

Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic. Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.Stop going off topic.

Tier lists aren't just to ban Pokemon separating OU and BL lets new users know which pokemon they will actually commonly encounter stop being stupid in this thread Tier lists aren't just to ban Pokemon separating OU and BL lets new users know which pokemon they will actually commonly encounter stop being stupid in this thread Tier lists aren't just to ban Pokemon separating OU and BL lets new users know which pokemon they will actually commonly encounter stop being stupid in this thread Tier lists aren't just to ban Pokemon separating OU and BL lets new users know which pokemon they will actually commonly encounter stop being stupid in this thread

This is the second time I've had to delete posts from this thread ._.

edit: STOP POSTING "WHAT IF" STUFF. "WHAT IF SALAMENCE WAS BL" hi guys I think the tiers should be based on POWER what is the point of all of this oh wait they are based on power because people use the best pokemon therefore there is a correlation between usage/power and i shouldn't be clueless in this topic because this isn't the topic for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Murkrow]

Is Zam really all that common? It's definitely not OU like Salamence, Metagross, Suicune, Swampert, etc. and I really can't say I've seen many.

I don't know if anyone else agrees, but I'm of the opinion that Alakazam goes to BL.

{edit} I think these should go to BL:

* Alakazam
* Breloom
* Charizard
* Exeggutor
* Forretress
* Gardevoir
* Ludicolo
* Marowak
* Moltres
* Regirock
* Rhydon
* Sceptile
* Slaking
* Steelix
* Tauros
* Umbreon
* Vaporeon
* Venusaur
* Weezing

And Swellow should go to UU.

 

[chaos]

I appreciate the support Basics, however your new tier naming is once again going off topic. Don't go off topic. We aren't changing the names. There is a time and place for such debate and this topic is not it, do you people not understand that :/

You guys can't ignore me, I'm too awesome for that. If you all keep posting off topic I'm just going to delete them all until I have a topic of suggestions for how to move around the Pokemon in the established tier list to use.

This is another reminder that this isn't a topic for your personal thoughts on what tiers are. It is a topic where you post about which Pokemon go in which tiers. Read the topic, read the first post, read my posts. Stop doing this or I will take action, it seems to be the same people everytime.

 

[Brood_Star]

My Somewhat Final Tier List (Editing to come). Sorry for the post. since I didn't think it'd be Off Topic

Ubers

• Deoxys
• Deoxys-E
• Deoxys-F
• Deoxys-L
• Groudon
• Ho-oh
• Kyogre
• Latias
• Latios
• Lugia
• Mew
• Mewtwo
• Rayquaza
• Wobbuffet

Standards

• Aerodactyl
• Alakazam
• Blissey
• Celebi
• Claydol
• Cloyster
• Donphan
• Dragonite
• Dugtrio
• Dusclops
• Flygon
• Forretress
• Gengar
• Gyarados
• Heracross
• Jirachi
• Jolteon
• Magneton
• Medicham
• Metagross
• Milotic
• Raikou
• Regice
• Salamence
• Sceptile
• Skarmory
• Snorlax
• Starmie
• Suicune
• Swampert
• Tyranitar
• Vaporeon
• Weezing
• Zapdos

Borderline

*Note: Because Smogon UU Rules do not allow Borderlines in the Underused metagame (unlike many other websites), this category is used to differentiate the Standard Pokémon that are not as commonly used, but can play well or decently in the Standard metagame or are too powerful for Underused.
*Also Note that all Not Fully Evolved Pokemon, unless stated otherwise, are considered Borderline.

• Arcanine
• Armaldo
• Articuno
• Blaziken
• Breloom
• Charizard
• Crobat
• Dodrio
• Entei
• Espeon
• Exeggutor
• Gardevoir
• Houndoom
• Jumpluff
• Jynx
• Kingdra
• Lapras
• Linoone
• Ludicolo
• Machamp
• Marowak
• Moltres
• Ninjask
• Porygon2
• Regirock
• Registeel
• Rhydon
• Slaking
• Slowbro
• Smeargle
• Steelix
• Tauros
• Typhlosion
• Umbreon
• Ursaring
• Venusaur
• Wynaut
• Zangoose

Underused

• Absol
• Aggron
• Altaria
• Ampharos
• Arbok
• Azumarill
• Banette
• Blastoise
• Camerupt
• Cacturne
• Clefable
• Cradily
• Dunsparce
• Electabuzz
• Electrode
• Fearow
• Feraligatr
• Furret
• Girafarig
• Gligar
• Golduck
• Golem
• Gorebyss
• Granbull
• Grumpig
• Hariyama
• Hitmonlee
• Hitmontop
• Hypno
• Kabutops
• Kangaskhan
• Kingler
• Lanturn
• Lunatone
• Magmar
• Manectric
• Mantine
• Meganium
• Miltank
• Misdreavus
• Mr. Mime
• Muk
• Nidoking
• Nidoqueen
• Ninetales
• Octillery
• Omastar
• Persian
• Pikachu
• Pinsir
  
• Politoed
• Poliwrath
• Primeape
• Quagsire
• Qwilfish
• Raichu
• Rapidash
• Sableye
• Sandslash
• Scizor
• Scyther
• Seviper
• Sharpedo
• Shedinja
• Shiftry
• Slowking
• Solrock
• Stantler
• Swellow
• Tentacruel
• Vigoroth
• Victreebel
• Vileplume
• Walrein
• Whiscash
• Xatu
• Yanma

Neverused

• Aipom
• Ariados
• Beautifly
• Beedrill
• Bellossom
• Butterfree
• Castform
• Chimecho
• Clamperl
• Corsola
• Crawdaunt
• Delcatty
• Delibird
• Dewgong
• Ditto
• Dustox
• Exploud
• Farfetch'd
• Flareon
• Glalie
• Hitmonchan
• Huntail
• Illumise
• Kecleon
• Ledian
• Lickitung
• Luvdisc
• Magcargo
• Masquerain
• Mawile
• Mightyena
• Minun
• Murkrow
• Noctowl
• Nosepass
• Parasect
• Pelipper
• Pidgeot
• Piloswine
• Plusle
• Raticate
• Relicanth
• Roselia
• Seaking
• Shuckle
• Sneasel
• Spinda
• Sudowoodo
• Sunflora
• Swalot
• Tangela
• Togetic
• Torkoal
• Trapinch
• Tropius
• Unown
• Venomoth
• Volbeat
• Wailord
• Wigglytuff

Zam, Dragonite, Dusclops, Flygon, Medicham, Sceptile could move down, but you generally see them enough to warrant OU. Sceptile over Venusaur is kinda tricky though. Jynx could also move up OU, but I don't see many still.

And I'm no pro at UU, but maybe move down Arbok/Xatu? Arbok is outshined by Seviper, Xatu doesn't really look that good. Torkoal and Volbeat look pretty strong for NU's too

Need more of the "Adv. over parent" pokes down. Duskull, but I don't know where it'd go. Maybe Seadra

 

[Toothache]

In agreement with the majority of this, although I think Butterfree should be NU.

 

[Hipmonlee]

In my opinion, the standard tier is pretty good.. I mean some things are not common in the same way metagross is, but they get used enough to warrant inclusion.

The one thing I would change is Gardevoir, which I have all but never seen. I think Houndoom could be moved up, and maybe Smeargle..

Oh yeah, Cloyster should go into standard..

Have a nice day.

 

[dayren]

* Alakazam
* Blaziken
* Breloom
* Charizard
* Claydol
* Dusclops
* Exeggutor
* Gardevoir
* Ludicolo
* Marowak
* Medicham
* Moltres
* Ninjask
* Regirock
* Rhydon
* Slaking
* Steelix
* Venusaur

those should be bl imo. i haven't seen any of those being used

edit: i also think that these pokes should be moved to ou:

* Armaldo
* Cloyster
* Houndoom
* Smeargle

 

[kukuro]

Most things on the current tier list look fine...However, I suggest moving Swellow to UU because Dodrio outclasses it in BL and it only can really shine in UU with the choice band crew. Pikachu should be somewhere around UU/NU. Vigeroth too. Roselia should be NU along with Bellossom, Butterfree and Hitmonchan. Oh, and Wynaut should be BL. Its just a Wobbuffet with crappier defences and HP which is what makes Wobba uber. Thats I all can spot at the moment
​

 

[Tazzler]

I think that:

Aerodactyl
Blissey
Snorlax
Suicune
Tyranitar
Zapdos
Salamence
Weezing
Steelix
Milotic
Swampert
Celebi
Jirachi
Cloyster
Houndoom
Moltres
Metagross
Regice
Gengar
Donphan
Starmie
Heracross

are the ones in the current tier list that should stay in the Overused section. Everything ekse should be BL.

 

[greenbay4]

Breloom, Gardevoir, Regirock, Charizard, Moltres, Rhydon, Venusaur, Steelix should be moved to BL. I'm more in favor of only moving a pokemon if the VAST majority (90-100%) of the ppl here agree with moving that poke, because levels of usage aren't that clear, or else we'd all be in general unison. I've seen Cloyster used a bit more, not enough to be moved IMO, but yeah it should be considered. The one poke that's surprising me by showing up is Umbreon.

 

[JIAN]

:)

Nice job with this Chaos.:)

 

[btway]

umbreon in BL?

I've seen too many toxic+confuseray+meanlook umbreons.

 

[makiri]

Ubers

• Celebi
• Jirachi

Standards

• Smeargle
• Houndoom
• Deoxys-E
  
• Cloyster
• Jumpluff

Borderline

• Moltres
• Blaziken
• Breloom
• Charizard
• Dusclops
• Gardevoir
• Gyarados
• Ludicolo
• Marowak
• Medicham
• Regirock
• Slaking
• Steelix
• Tauros
• Umbreon
• Venusaur
• Weezing
• Wynaut
• Scyther
• Tentacruel

Didn't make any changes in UU/NU

 

[X-Act]

I still see Slaking and Ninjask. I still see BP teams, and Ninjask is staple in them. Slaking and Ninjask should stay in OU.

 

[Hicky]

I agree with Hipno... You can't move everything down to BL that isn't used all the time, you should only move stuff down that really isn't used atall. Ninjask shouldn't be moved, nor should alot of things that people have suggested. Oh and, person 2 Posts up, why the hell are you moving Gyarados down. And Medicham. And Weezing. You don't need to move everything down that isn't Jesus, you know. Otherwize we'd have a Standard Tier list with, like 6 Pokés. IMO the only stuff I really think you should move down are Gardevoir and Exeggutor, and then everything else should stay as it is

 

[Animerocks]

I agree with Hipno... You can't move everything down to BL that isn't used all the time, you should only move stuff down that really isn't used atall. Ninjask shouldn't be moved, nor should alot of things that people have suggested. Oh and, person 2 Posts up, why the hell are you moving Gyarados down. And Medicham. And Weezing. You don't need to move everything down that isn't Jesus, you know. Otherwize we'd have a Standard Tier list with, like 6 Pokés. IMO the only stuff I really think you should move down are Gardevoir and Exeggutor, and then everything else should stay as it is

if eggy is moved down,then so should ludicolo.