Official "I want to edit an analysis" thread (read first post)

some of the counters in the counter section seem a bit incomplete and could add a few more; here's what i've thought:

Venusaur: gengar is a reliable counter for the standard venusaur, if the sleep has been absorbed, as sludge bomb/razor leaf hits NVE, and gengar dents it with ice punch. Hp fire doesn't exactly hurt it and hp ghost is rare

Charizard: The counter section for charizard doesn't give any specific counter. imo, suicune, milotic, swampert and gyarados are the most reliable ones, and to an extent, salamence (watch out for rock slide) and arcanine work (intimidate + Extremespeed for the bellyzard)

Magneton: Salamence is not a good counter, as it gets 2hko'd by thunderbolt and doesn't exactly take thunder waves. Flygon is much better at doing it, as hp ice isn't that common on maggy

Tyranitar: just a suggestion, i think the counter section should be separated into "boah counters" and "physical tyranitar counters", as they are all together, even though tyranitar has a lot of variety

Flygon: Porigon2 is an awesome counter; tracing levitate and being able to ohko with ice beam

Regice: The counter section for it looks like charizard's: you could add Metagross, Snorlax, Registeel, Machamp, Hariyama to the list

That's all i can think for now
 
hm, random cbers...

Moltres @ Choice Band
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 68 HP / 220 Atk / 220 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Fighting]/Hidden Power [Grass]
- Aerial Ace
- Double-Edge/ Return

Modeled after zapdos/ho-oh. same principles.
 
speaking of CBers, heres a weird, semi-useful one to be considered:

Entei @ Choice Band
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 142 Spd
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Fire Blast
- Double-Edge/Body Slam/Frustration
- Hidden Power (any physical type)
- Iron Tail

His move pool sucks, but he has 125 BA, so he can do it. Fire Blast Skarmory and friends, choose your normal move and use Iron Tail. Any physical power thats non-steel should do (Rock to cover Gyarados or Salamence is good). The plus to him is that he is immune to WoW.
 

Great Sage

Banned deucer.
I have used a Choice Band Regirock to great success:

Regirock@CB
252 Atk/Other EV's are up for debate, just no SpA
Adamant/Impish Nature

Rock Slide/HP Rock
Earthquake
Explosion
Focus Punch/Superpower

Rock Slide/HP Rock is obviously for STAB, and Earthquake is a generally good move. Explosion is a guarenteed OHKO on most things, and Focus Punch for Skarm (it does about 38% to max HP, max Def.,Impish Skarm), with very little risk, because Drill Pecks mean nothing to something with 200 base defense that resists. HP Ghost might help against random Psychics and Ghosts, but I suggest Focus Punch unless you're pathetic at prediction. If you do use HP Ghost, use with Magneton.
 
Here's a fun GSC Machamp set that is not novelty at best. It's better:

Machamp @ Leftovers ** Medichamp
-Meditate
-Cross Chop
-Rock Slide
-Fire Blast

This dude is pretty fun. The point of Meditate is to gain attack power while still having a speed advantage over more Pokemon. Fire Blast beats Skarmory. Hidden Power Ghost is also a usable option against the common Machamp counter, Starmie. With enough momentum, this can sweep really nicely.
 

norulz

excellent
Judgement said:
Fire Blast beats Skarmory.
Not really, since Skarmory has 70 speed base and Machamp has 55.
I'm assuming of course, since I don't play GSC much, that Drill Peck 2HKOS Machamp, and that Fire Blast doesn't OHKO Skarmory.

I wouldn't really relly on this strategy to beat Skarmory.
 

Altmer

rid this world of human waste
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
For machamp: CH cross chop choice banded ohko's skarm iirc, or at least puts a HUGE dent in it
 
On the Magneton Analysis, Screech deserves a mention. Screech+Dugtrio can work as a way of taking out the opponents special sponge as long as you don't mind sacrificing Magneton. A 200 def Snorlax takes 93%-100% from Adamant Duggy Earthquake with 2 def drops, so if you fire a Thunderbolt at Lax before dying, it's nearly guaranted to die to Earthquake. I would assume this works with Blissey too
 
CB Adament Scizor needs some love, most people would just except a Agility/SD pass version. There is no reason to waste that monsterous 130 base ATK and half decent part steel typing for minor normal resist. Once a Silver Wind kicks in, this thing can rape milotic and swamperts. 203 SPD for those 200+ rain/sun/random pokemons. Can't go wrong with max ATK. HP EV for survival. Oh yea, this thing resist sandstorm, which can ruin some other CBers.

Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Silver Wind
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Double-Edge
- Steel Wing
 
Vaporeon should be listed as a Metagross counter, especially since it's mentioned in Vaporeon's own info that it can be brought in on Metagross.


Edit:
Also, for Vaporeon, Modest and Calm should be listed at least as possibilities, on the basis that the current EVs section mentions using leftovers in Special Attack or Special Defense--and yet you get +25 Special Attack or +22 Special Defense from a nature alone (with no EVs), which is more than the +21 Defense from full EVs on a Bold nature, meaning that you can put whatever leftover EVs you would have devoted to the Special stats into HP and (mostly) redeem the Defense loss anyway.
 
x1 Attack – You are either immune to Intimidate but have no attack boosts, or you have a 1-stage attack boost but are affected by Intimidate. (CB Heracross; Regirock)
Regirock Have Both STAB&Clear Body
 

noobster

space cowboy
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnuswon the 2nd Official Smogon Tournament
Did a quick cleanup (To people with access to dex: this does NOT mean I added it. I just removed the things that are not to be included). Some of the things I saw were people posting a whole set just for an alternative move which is totally not necessary.

I basically deleted stuff that had been refuted by other people well enough, I felt were too novelty to be included, or I didn't feel was a good enough suggestion in general.

Keep posting your changes though! Suggestions are always welcome :D
 
Other Magic Stat' Numbers

Thunder/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Blizzard/Surf/Hydro Pump Vs. Aero
U Like To Take Aero With SE Attack,But Sometimes Even Aero Survive Kyorge's Water Spout And KO's it (It Happened To My Aero),Lets Know How You Need To Beat It:
Thare Two EV Spreads,4/0(HP/SpD) Or 4/76,How You Need To KO' It:
Non STABED 95BP SE Attack Vs. 4/0 Spread:
185 Will 2HKO it(Without Lefties,Because It Usually Haves A CB)On Average (Or OHKO With Average CH)
202 Will 2HKO It Guaranteed (Or OHKO With A CH)
The OHKO Rates:
With 345 SpAtk,You Have 1/38 Chance To OHKO
373 Will OHKO it on Average
406 Will OHKO it Guaranteed
So Draggy,You Cann't OHKO It (And Zam Cann't With T-Punch)
With STAB,No Pokemon Are So Sad Them Can't 2HKO it,So Hare Is The OHKO Rates:
With 224 SpAtk,You Have 1/38 Chance To OHKO
247 Will OHKO it on Average
269 Will OHKO it Guaranteed
For The 4/76,The Stats Have:
204 Will 2HKO it On Average (Or OHKO With Average CH)
222 Will 2HKO It Guaranteed (Or OHKO It With CH)
The OHKO Rates:
With 380 SpAtk,You Have 1/38 Chance To OHKO
411 Will OHKO it on Average
448 Will OHKO it Guaranteed
With STAB:
OHKO Rates:
With 252 SpAtk,You Have 1/38 Chance To OHKO
272 Will OHKO it on Average
297 Will OHKO it Guaranteed
Bad News,Cune,You Just Can't Without +SpAtk Nature To Guarantee OHKO On Aero.
If U Use Hydro Pump/Blizzard/Thunder For Some Reason:
For 4/0 Aero:
Even With 161 SpAtk You Will 2HKO It Guaranteed
With 275 You Have 1/38 Chance To OHKO
297 Will OHKO It on Average
323 Will OHKO It Guaranteed
With STAB:
OHKO Rates:
Even With 181 SpAtk You Have 1/38 Chance To OHKO
196 Will OHKO It on Average
213 Will OHKO It Guaranteed,A Peice Of Cake
For 4/76:
Even With 176 SpAtk You Will 2HKO It Guaranteed
With 301 You Have 1/38 Chance To OHKO
326 Will OHKO It on Average
354 Will OHKO It Guaranteed
With STAB:
OHKO Rates:
Even With 200 SpAtk You Have 1/38 Chance To OHKO
216 Will OHKO It on Average
235 Will OHKO It Guaranteed
 

Great Sage

Banned deucer.
Skill Swap could be an option on Banette. Skill Swapping Insomnia onto a burned and dying Snorlax is priceless. Of course, it is situational, but so is Snatch.
 
I've written a few that have been used in netbattle, and i've won with.

Zangoose:

@Choice Band
~Shadow Ball
~Aerial Ace (Heracross, breloom, etc)
~Return/Crush Claw
~Brick Break
->CB’er. Only works if used properly. Otherwise, it gets destroyed. High chance, with high pay.

@Leftovers
~Swords Dance
~Shadow Ball
~Return/Crush Claw/Slash
~Brick Break/Aerial Ace
->Dancer. Works well

@Liechi berries
~Substitute
~Focus Punch
~Flail
~Shadow Ball
-> Sub down to 1 HP, buy making sure that the HP is 1 mod 4 (9,13,21,33, etc). Sub, Punch or Shadow Ball, sub until at the last one, then Flail or Shadow Ball.

Swellow
Adamant (-Satk, +Atk)Nature
@Choice Band
~Aerial Ace
~Steel Wing
~Facade (CB + Guts + Facade = massive damage)
~Return/Mirror Move/Quick Attack
–> Last move is a tossup. Nothing better (Mirror move for random, Return for power, Quick Attack for Speed.)

Swampert
Brave (-Speed, +Atk) Nature
@Leftovers
~Substitute
~Focus Punch
~Curse
~Surf/Ice Beam/EQ/Rock Slide
–> Best if you go last. Sub lasts longer (Instead of lasting two turns, it only needs to last one.)
–> Evs in HP and Atk. Maybe a few in defenses

Admant (-Satk, +Atk) / Brave (-Speed, +Atk)
@Leftovers/Choice Band
~Brick Break
~Return
~EQ
~Surf/Ice Beam/Curse/Rock Slide
–> CB for Rock Slide, otherwise lefties.
–> Evs are same as above.


As for the ludicolo, wouldn't DRAINER do much better?
@Leftovers. Rain Dish. Timid/Modest/Calm
~Rain Dance
~Leech Seed
~Mega Drain/Giga Drain (for 2/3 power, 2x base pp)
~Ice Beam/Dive/Seismic Toss/Fire Punch
-> Pretty straight-forward. Rain, Seed, attack. Mega/Giga for stab and soaking. For the last one, ice beam deals with its flying weakness. Dive so you don't get hit, you still soak up their HP, and you cause some damage. Seismic toss for constant 100HP damage and break thru most subs. Fire punch for the bug weakness (big use of scizor and ninjask) and skarm counter (does like 20%, iirc, not bad). Toxic deserves a mention, but I don't like it because if they die, you don't soak up there hp. Same reason im not putting in uproar to prevent rests. while there sleeping, soak more and more.
 
Meh, semi novelty set. Credit on this one goes to dan dan.

Regice @ Choice Band
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 44 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Focus Punch
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Thunder/Rock Slide/Superpower/Hidden Power [Flying]/Sleep Talk

Last move is sort of a filler if you have magneton/nosepass.
 

noobster

space cowboy
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnuswon the 2nd Official Smogon Tournament
Novelty sets like those don't really need to be posted. It seems to me like it's just a waste of space :[
 

Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
Iron Tail should be an option on Steelix' main set over Rock Slide. You can hit stuff like Aerodactyl, 2HKOs Gengar and severely dents Regice. The accuracy sucks, though, but the defensive stats and PP compensate it. In general, it hits Levitators harder. Psych Up should be mentioned as well, as it makes a nice Curselax counter (300 Atk Lax only does 29% damage at max). And then Steelix can Roar Lax off and proceed to sweep. Works best in the later game when the opponent thinks they can sweep with Snorlax, and that their bulky water is dead.

Random Choice Band
Steelix @ CB
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Iron Tail
- Rock Slide
- Explosion
Allright 295 Choice Banded attack is nothing to sneeze at. Earthquake seriously dents bulky waters coming in to wreck your fun. Makes a nice surprise against Tyranitar. Switch it on the DD, and when it thinks it can beat you with Dragon Danced Earthquakes OHKO it back with your own Earthquake. Iron Tail OHKOs Aerodactyl and Gengar. Rock Slide for Zapdos and friends, and Explosion is just because

Skarmory @ Choice Band
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Drill Peck
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Rock Slide
- Steel Wing
The coolest way to use Skarmory IMO. Don't knock until you try it. HP Ground OHKOs the common Magneton switch, Drill Peck is for the sake of STAB. Rock Slide dents Zapdos hard as it might switch in to you, and Steel Wing 2HKOs Tyranitar (although this doesn't mean this willl be your Tar counter; DDed RS 2HKOs this). Best paired with Dugtrio (although gay), and Jirachi IMO. Jirachi gives wish, paralysis and occasionally the screen support. Dugtrio covers Electrics not named Zapdos, and some other stuff. Its fast enough to outspeed bulky waters, and the extra speed might actually come in handy like when a 54% HP Milotic tries to come in and Recover, it eats 2 Drill Pecks and dies. It also outspeeds some Suicunes, Marowaks and Articunos. Suicune might lol at your moves, but Articuno falls to Rock Slide and Marowak hates CBSTAB Drill Pecks. Base 80 might seem horrifyingly average, but Dugtrio's Atk is also 80. The only difference is that Duggy gets STAB Earthquake. I encourage you to start with HP Ground, as Magnetons usually just come in on the birdy at the earliest time to either take Spikes/Drill Peck or in the Risk/Reward analysis, the Roar/Whirlwind.
 

Great Sage

Banned deucer.
It should be noted that Smeargle can Tail Glow. Spore, Sub, Tail Glow, Sub down to the Salac boost, and BP to something like Alakazam FTW. Of course, if the opponent is faster, sub again to replace the just broken one, down to the Salac boost, when you still should have a sub, Tail Glow, and pass.
 
The Shuckle opinion...

I personally think Shuckle is a great pokemon and is never to be taken lightly, yes granted it is horribly weak with offense and is a bad bad attacker only for special conditions will it be good and yes you are right Snorlax and other resters can one up him, but also it is true that one pokemon cannot cover all types of problems regardless of who he is due to there will always be an acheillies heel within them. Now what makes this pokemon so great is his Defenses, i see it always have Rest and Toxic on him and max out his Defenses the best you can, his role is to merely wear down the offenders pokemon PP limits and usages of moves along with killing them with Toxic if able or merely to get a peek on what moves they have before sending in your next creature. More so i would call him a Recon pokemon just due to how good he is on seeing what the other pokemon is capable of and wearing down as i said before its PP. When one looks at a Shuckle they need to think is my opponent using him as a recon role to sniff out my weaknesses because with 5 extra pokemon you can cover all types with that team and have Shuckle in the lead merely to figure out what your opponent can do. I had people at awe trying to dent my Shuckle before however they came to realize what i was doing and it was too late.

More so his greatest weakness has to be Seismic Toss, Night Shade and other such moves..two of them or three will always kill. But this is my opinion, he is to figure on what your opponent can do, poison and wear down PP if able. Otherwise never to be used as an offensive pokemon only defensive and scouting.
 

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