France wants to ban Islamic Religious attire for women

[cloud]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34874754/ns/world_news-europe

"We're going to become the laughing stock of democracies" should France ban the clothing, said Raphael Liogier, a sociology professor who runs the Observatory of the Religious in Aix-en-Provence.

Hell yeah you're going to be a joke you stupid joke country what the hell is wrong with you are you all too asphyxiated from choking on your baguette dicks? This is the worst example of discrimination I've seen as of late, and in a way that is not even remotely veiled (haha).

Where does a country get off banning a religious custom, however ridiculous it may be? You're not assimilating anyone - the people that wear these costumes or whatever you wanna call them were raised in a way that dictates them to wear it - if they don't wear it, they feel naked or whatever. Who cares anyway, it's simply a violation of basic human rights. Wear whatever the fuck you want, you're not hurting anybody.

Furthermore, only an estimated 1-2k of the female muslim population wears this shit so what's the big deal? Live with one less hairy armpit showing everytime the train jerks oh my god eat a dick France.

 

[Fishy]

"Here, it is widely viewed as a gateway to radical Islam, an attack on gender equality and other French values, and a gnawing away at the nation's secular foundation."

Could they SOUND any whinier than this? It's not as if these women are promoting their garb and wanting everyone to emulate them, they're just carrying about minding their own business, wearing what they believe is expected of them because of their religion/culture.

France needs to grow up already.

 

[Synre]

My 'favorite' part of this article was the quote that the garb is a "fundamentalist and barbaric ideology"... if that wording doesn't show bias, I don't know what does. The whole citizenship thing inside the article is almost more interesting to me than the ridiculous ban attempt itself, though, since it's such blatant discrimination. I don't understand what the point of pretending to open to all religious (well, sort of, since I guess it all started by their prez saying that they aren't "welcome here") groups but discriminating against one like this. Would my atheism be an issue there? Judiaism, maybe? I rather doubt it, it's kind of funny since it seems pretty obvious that the ones who aren't assimilating are the French, as I'm pretty sure part of travel being so much easier and the world having so much more of a global economy is that the demographics of basically every country in the world is shifting, and that's something we all should have "assimilated" to and accepted by now.

I'm liked that quote right at the beginning, too -- "They say I'm too attached to my religion." This is a pretty ridiculous idea to me even as someone who isn't religious. I don't think there's a value closer to the heart for most people, trying to legally change people's opinions on religion, in addition to being pretty close to completely impossible, is awfully "barbaric", I'd say.

Yet another case of the majority ruling being unwilling to defend the minority.

 

[cim]

It's plain and simple, utterly ridiculous.

It's religious discrimination. Say what you will about Islam, but what it comes down to is that these women choose to wear the clothing. Taking away that choice impedes the exercise of their religion.

 

[tinfoilman]

Why people live in that place still is beyond me...

;)

 

[Xaqwais]

I'm Muslim as is my entire family. My mom wears the head scarf, as does one of my two sister-in-laws, as does a couple of my cousins and aunts.

So the obvious reaction is to be enraged, but honestly, it's not like I expected better from France, who has always kinda been poking at the concept. I just kinda expect it now.

 

[Nida]

"[G]ender equality and other French values" - since when was gender equality a French value? Jesus butt, the entire nation's economy relies on naked women.

 

[cloud]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlkxlzTZc48 is an interesting watch

people like this blow me away - they're expressing their distaste in a culture that is 'primitive' and go as far as to liken a custom people have drawn out for centuries to star wars.

but they can't accept that these people are doing what they want, just like they're doing what they want in expressing their distaste. go ahead and express your distaste, nobody gives a fuck. just like you shouldn't give a fuck if someone is wearing something they want to wear.

if they didn't want to wear it, they wouldn't wear it. sure you can argue that they're being 'forced' to do so but that's the custom they were raised with. i mean i see gaybos in downtown toronto wearing next to nothing in the summer and that bothers me but fuck all if i stare at them and make it an active point to do something about it. they're just being gay for the sake of being gay. who cares.

nurture over nature, just like you grew up being an idiot with idiot opinions, these people grew up wearing some ridiculous black carpet on their heads.

it's frustrating how so many people are so far in the past and hypocritical.

 

[Altmer]

if they do this ban christian clothing, jewish clothing, hindu clothing etc too

or dont ban anything at all

 

[akuchi]

The whole 'burka is oppressive' thing I think has some merit. Sometimes.
However. Legislating against what women can and cannot wear because they may theoretically in some cases not want to wear it is far more oppressive in the first place.

 

[Altmer]

not just women humans in general

 

[Hipmonlee]

What I'd like to see is some tropical non christian country banning people from wearing pants.

Also a ban on bras as they are well known to be a symbol of patriarchal opression.

Have a nice day.

 

[jumpluff]

France has a history of this shit and trying to get this through, and I'm not surprised. I refer to the Swiss ban on minarets; where's the ban on crosses on the top of cathedrals?

I was going to say that I think anyone here can see that the ban is oppression and frankly ridiculous, but then again the fact there was anything to make a thread about makes me second-guess that. Honestly, I think the concept of burqas in themselves is oppressive and sexist as fuck in all senses, but saying it's a component of radical Islam and a gateway to terrorism is like saying wearing a crucifix is going to make you the next Fred Phelps.

The public security concerns justification doesn't even warrant a response.

 

[Altmer]

Where's the ban on religious oppression altogether?

 

[mattj]

Sounds like normal, secular humanity doing it's thing.

 

[Tayla]

"Here, it is widely viewed as a gateway to radical Islam"

The amount of radical Islamists is vastly outnumbered by the peaceful Muslim population. To think that Muslim garb is anyway a "gateway" to radicalism is just ridiculous. The fact that they also refused this woman because of her clothing is even more so. Her husband and children are all French born citizens.. Hell she even speaks French. Her desire to follow her religion is her own choice, not France's.

 

[akuchi]

Also a ban on bras as they are well known to be a symbol of patriarchal opression.

Have a nice day.

I'd rather just have the choice not to wear one ;)

 

[jumpluff]

TMI but I prefer to wear bras because they're supportive.

Relevant because many Muslim women prefer to wear burqas because of their faith!

 

[Force Majeure]

The attitude behind these laws (the French law and the Swiss Minaret ban that Jumpluff mentioned) is one of creeping despair among a certain section of the European population. Many fear that the traditional European way is being challenged and eventually may fall to Islam. My friend from Macedonia described it best: people who are in their 30s or older look around and they notice not churches, but mosques, and they see all of the other things that have changed about European society and they look for scapegoats, much as we do in America. Islam just happens to be the scapegoat.

tl;dr version: Europeans have more in common with the GOP than we once supposed.

EDIT: Personally, I think it makes no real difference what someone wears. Couldn't France just ban Ugg boots instead? I actually find burqas really pretty.

Saris are prettier, but hey.

 

[cantab]

Does France WANT to be the next terrorist target or something?

And if they push it through, it will have security ramifications beyond France. As I understand it, radical Islamist groups frequently perceive "the west" as one entity, hostile to Islam. If France bans the Niqab, I suspect that will motivate terrorist attacks on Britain, America, and other nations, not just on France.

 

[Raverist]

What the french government have done is effectively bathe themselves in petrol and ask for a cigarette to smoke in the eyes of extremist islamists. And if it is the fault of the french that Britain and America get more terrorist attacks on them, for absolutely no reason other than the enforcement pf the sixth law of chivalry, then we might as well just nuke the frogs and get their idiotic bans out of here.

I mean, seriously, they say they're banning something that's been around for millenia because it might show extremism? They need reminding of the number of female suicide bombers...

 

[mien]

It seems many people here assume that those islamic women wear the burka out of free will while in fact this isn't always true.

The burka is often used as a way for the father to keep complete control over his daughter and his wife. As it is almost impossible to interact with other people while wearing a burka, preventing woman to adept to the society they live in. As such between more radical islamitic families forced weddings are still happening, a part of it thanks to the burka.

Of course there are always women who wear these kind of clothes out of 'free will', but there are also those who are afraid to get beaten by the father when they would express their true opinion in public.

This is how it happens here in Belgium often, i assume it's the same problem in France.

 

[MrIndigo]

I can see a legitimate motivation to ban veils in certain places (courtrooms, for instance, or other places where security is a concern) on the grounds that the 'discrimination' is based on relevant functional differences; but to say "We don't like them because they're symbolic of radical Islam" is just retarded. If anything, that kind of blanket ban is likely to induce more resentment against authority, and stimulate more support for radical Islam.

Stupid stupid.

@Mien: That's true, but not relevant to a ban like this.

 

[cim]

It seems many people here assume that those islamic women wear the burka out of free will while in fact this isn't always true.

This ban doesn't only affect those forced to wear such clothing.

 

[Deck Knight]

Now if only we could get this level of general outrage over banning cigarettes, fizzy drinks, and "hate speech."