-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Team Ethics
- Thread starter sagacious
- Start date
To be honest, copying a team has never occured to me :/
Sometimes, I would look around the RMT forum and find maybe a combo I like and build a team around it but I've never taken a whole team. After reading what some people have posted here, and being rather bad at competitive battling as a whole, I think I might try copying teams. I'll feel guilty but I guess it would be better in the long run. It feels good to win matches with a team you made yourself but first, you need to know how to make a team :P
Sometimes, I would look around the RMT forum and find maybe a combo I like and build a team around it but I've never taken a whole team. After reading what some people have posted here, and being rather bad at competitive battling as a whole, I think I might try copying teams. I'll feel guilty but I guess it would be better in the long run. It feels good to win matches with a team you made yourself but first, you need to know how to make a team :P
For as long as I've been playing pokemon, I never really take a mon and copy its sets, but rather I take the concepts from vague words such as "bulkymence" and stuff, and try to create my own set around that term. It might be identical to another mon, but at least I know that I'm not copying it.
About copying a pokemon or a team, I don't think anything is wrong with it. This is the internet. If you post something here you ought to expect someone to see it and say "oh, this is good, I'll imitate it", since you can't patent a pokemon's set (which will be riddiculous). If you can't stop anyone from copying you, then I guess nothing is wrong about copying sets and teams. Hey, they ARE posted on the internet, everyone can see them!
About copying a pokemon or a team, I don't think anything is wrong with it. This is the internet. If you post something here you ought to expect someone to see it and say "oh, this is good, I'll imitate it", since you can't patent a pokemon's set (which will be riddiculous). If you can't stop anyone from copying you, then I guess nothing is wrong about copying sets and teams. Hey, they ARE posted on the internet, everyone can see them!
As long as the user doesn't claim the borrowed team as their own, I don't see a problem with it. Sure it would be better to win with a team that you created, but for those who aren't too great at team building or just want to understand how certain teams work, it can be good for them to borrow a team from a more advanced player and learn from it.
Does this concept still hold if, say, A person were to use a created team in a Tournament or another bigger picture match?
In that case, you should probably ask the person you got the team from first.
If they put it up for rate, it basically screams: HI! YOU CAN COPY THIS IF YOU WANT!
If they tell it to you, it's basically saying, "You can copy it, but don't tell anyone else."
Just my "two cents" on the issue.
If they tell it to you, it's basically saying, "You can copy it, but don't tell anyone else."
Just my "two cents" on the issue.
exactly. The team you make needs your style, your effort, and it should make you want to correct it. You hve to put your effort or else you'll ask whats the point. It gives you pride and half the fun of battling with your team is saying "Hah, I'm better than you" not "hah, I'm better at searching the web than you"
That being said, if you post an RMT, you cant expect noone to copy your team, unless it already fails misrebly.
That being said, if you post an RMT, you cant expect noone to copy your team, unless it already fails misrebly.
Copying a team off of RMT is totally ethical, it's what newbies do to get aquainted to the game. It's there for public consumption.
As for copying teams you hit, A: It's going to be hard to copy every aspect of the team, since you won't have a chance to find out most of the EVs, movesets, and natures. and B: It'll happen anyway, because that's how the metagame works. The reason scizor's #1 because people got beat by scizors, then started using scizors themselves. That applies to teams--good teams will naturally be used more.
I wouldn't worry about it.
As for copying teams you hit, A: It's going to be hard to copy every aspect of the team, since you won't have a chance to find out most of the EVs, movesets, and natures. and B: It'll happen anyway, because that's how the metagame works. The reason scizor's #1 because people got beat by scizors, then started using scizors themselves. That applies to teams--good teams will naturally be used more.
I wouldn't worry about it.
While on the matter of copying teams, people need to stop ripping "Rotom, Charge". It's a well-made team, of course, but you can just as well use a more standard semistall team with SubCharge Rotom as a spinblocker. What I really took away from Jabba's team was that SubCharge Rotom was good on stall teams. That's why teams in the archive should be studied: not to copy them, but to study them and apply what you learn to your own teams.
Not that there's anything wrong with copying a team, but don't be surprised if you don't replicate Jabba's results.
Not that there's anything wrong with copying a team, but don't be surprised if you don't replicate Jabba's results.
I believe that it's a good idea to use someone elses team but not as your own team. In other words it'd be wrong to use it in a tournament or claim it as your team. Otherwise it's perfectly fine. People can come up with ideas from playing with other people's teams or learn how a type of team operates.
I don't find anything wrong with copying other teams. The only thing I would say that wuold be (slightly) against it is that you kinda lose the pride in winning a good match or a clean 6-0. I mean, sure, you did it and mayeb the original poster couldn't have done so vs. the same person, but knowing that the team wasn't built from scratch (or a small base) and by yourself with moderate help (RMT forum ftw), it's basically like saying "I don't have the initiative to learn competitive pokemon, I'll keep using this sweet team that works all day long and not build another team out of it with my own ideas."
I take more pride in winning with my team (I Rest in Peace; You Rest in Pieces) than I did when I win with the Ubers team revolving around how useful Garchomp is in Ubers (forgot name lol; it's in the archive I know that much. Might I add I played Ubers before I went OU). Contrary to everything I've said, I did learn from that team: I realized that building a team that revolves around one pokemon, even choiced or frail or not even super-powerful or fast, can be incredibly effective, and thus arose my RMT revolving around Heracross. And with the help of raters here, my team has been avidly improving since I started with it.
Copying is perfectly fine, IMO, but you have to understand that using that team you copied should be used to help you learn, not to just contiously use and brag about it (as if there is much to brag about copying a team lol).
I take more pride in winning with my team (I Rest in Peace; You Rest in Pieces) than I did when I win with the Ubers team revolving around how useful Garchomp is in Ubers (forgot name lol; it's in the archive I know that much. Might I add I played Ubers before I went OU). Contrary to everything I've said, I did learn from that team: I realized that building a team that revolves around one pokemon, even choiced or frail or not even super-powerful or fast, can be incredibly effective, and thus arose my RMT revolving around Heracross. And with the help of raters here, my team has been avidly improving since I started with it.
Copying is perfectly fine, IMO, but you have to understand that using that team you copied should be used to help you learn, not to just contiously use and brag about it (as if there is much to brag about copying a team lol).
Fuck ethics. Play to win.
It's pretty well known that out of all the teams that I've battled with, my favorite team to ever use has been JabbaTheGriffin's archived Rotom, CHARGE! team, which I used before it was published with his permission. Playing with archived and well-known teams is more of a liability than it seems, since it means that your team is published out in the open and easy to predict against by any decent player who's up on the trends.
Only scrubs complain about people using borrowed teams.
EDIT FOR MTR: I went something retarded like 47-3 with this team, so there's no real "don't be surprised if you don't get Jabba's results" thing here.
It's pretty well known that out of all the teams that I've battled with, my favorite team to ever use has been JabbaTheGriffin's archived Rotom, CHARGE! team, which I used before it was published with his permission. Playing with archived and well-known teams is more of a liability than it seems, since it means that your team is published out in the open and easy to predict against by any decent player who's up on the trends.
Only scrubs complain about people using borrowed teams.
EDIT FOR MTR: I went something retarded like 47-3 with this team, so there's no real "don't be surprised if you don't get Jabba's results" thing here.
When we consider that most people do use sets created for the strategydex, this becomes a very interesting question.
1. Even if you steal a player's team, there is no gaurentee it will work at all. Alot of teams succes depends (almost) soley on the player's ability to use that team, understanding of the game and hax.
2.People whom add Pokemon movestes and strategies on the strategydex are fully aware that they will be copied by other players. The creators are doing all of us a favour by lending us their expertise. Making a team with six Pokemon copied dirrectly form the stategydex is unoriginal, but it is not stealing.
I would say we can qualify "stealling" as taking someone elses team/movesets and claiming them as your own.
Also, one of the best ways to learn the game is to use a team made by a more experianced player. Don't worry if you use another persons team to learn, just don't "steal" it.
1. Even if you steal a player's team, there is no gaurentee it will work at all. Alot of teams succes depends (almost) soley on the player's ability to use that team, understanding of the game and hax.
2.People whom add Pokemon movestes and strategies on the strategydex are fully aware that they will be copied by other players. The creators are doing all of us a favour by lending us their expertise. Making a team with six Pokemon copied dirrectly form the stategydex is unoriginal, but it is not stealing.
I would say we can qualify "stealling" as taking someone elses team/movesets and claiming them as your own.
Also, one of the best ways to learn the game is to use a team made by a more experianced player. Don't worry if you use another persons team to learn, just don't "steal" it.
My view on this topic is similar to the general notion people usually have regarding intellectual piracy or dishonesty, i.e. stealing the team and passing it as your own, expressly or impliedly (e.g. when someone calls you out on it and you reply "I would never copy teams", etc).
Learn as much as you can from other's teams and don't let useless comments affect you. Good luck ^^.
Learn as much as you can from other's teams and don't let useless comments affect you. Good luck ^^.
While I agree that copying a team is fine, if you don't really know the team your working with it's harder to play and can put you at a disadvantage. By making your own team, you know what you can use as counters and you have a sense of how much damage specific Pokemon can do. Using a team you know is good to learn how to play is great, and would have helped a lot for me, but by learning by myself I believe that I have a sense of what doesn't work, not just what works.
To those players who say that they've never thought about copying someone else's team and that it's more fun to make your own, I agree but this isn't about your own preferences but whether or not this is considered acceptable in the pokemon society in general. "It's more fun" will never add anything to the greater debate because a) fun is subjective and hence creativity may not mean fun to everyone and b)whether or not something is fun and whether or not something is ethically acceptable are two different things.
Didn't mean to offend anyone, just my 2c.
Didn't mean to offend anyone, just my 2c.
Have to agree with that - a game is played on what you enjoy and no-one should tell you how you should have fun.
I bboy so I'm going to use this as an example. There is a foundation to the dance that everyone learns, you then break free from that and start to explore and create your own identity within in the dance.
The point is Pokemon has a certain foundation, compiled of movesets/tiers etc.
Anyone new should not be guilty to use anyones teams, it's apart of understanding how things work, then you can eventually make up your own team and strategies. You should in my opinion always give credit to the person who made the team, but it should never be looked down upon. Hell - if someone used a team I made - I'd be greatful someone acknowledged my idea :)
Pokemon like breaking has it's superstars for eg. ZMT MtgXerves to name a few. Great minds think alike, so sometimes you can have a team that someone made that someone else has done (only playing friends wireless), so people in the spotlight can get the fame yet someone might have even done that beofre them. So you never really know to be entirely honest. Just a thought and my two pence ;)
I too see nothing wrong with it so long as you're not passing the team of as your own. Someone could be brilliant at actual play but rubbish at team building, so I don't think there should be any shame if they need a little push to get them started.
Though I think the real question is up to how the person copying a team feels, how "ethical" they find it - as chances are the person you copy will never even find out, and if they care to a point of being genuinely angry then they're probably taking themselves a bit too seriously.
Though I think the real question is up to how the person copying a team feels, how "ethical" they find it - as chances are the person you copy will never even find out, and if they care to a point of being genuinely angry then they're probably taking themselves a bit too seriously.
This, and if somebody stole my team without my consent, I'd be rather annoyed as I imagine most people would be.