Pokemon Black & White, aka Gen 5. Coming to Japan in Fall 2010.

[Wombat Sky Forme]

I think if Game Freak is going to add around 100-150 new Pokemon, it's gonna be a ridiculously complicated game. I think the 8 Pokemon Party idea sounds good, but as people have posted before, 6 moves on one Pokemon would break Pokemon like Lucario and Salamence. So I would like more Pokemon slots, but more moves is overkill. Also, if for some reason there are no new Pokemon, then I don't think any changes in moveslots or party size need to be made.

Having 8 Pokemon and/or 6 moves would allow a team to basically counter everything. I think that this would actually reduce the fun and skill of the games, and turn Pokemon into a game of switching every turn. We already have rather boring switching matches, we don't need that amplified.

However, if one is allowed to have 8 Pokemon in their party, that drastically affects the ingame play. It's already extremely easy to beat trainers when you have a 6-2 advantage from the start, but 8-2? I'm not sure if Game Freak wants to break the actual game that much, as a lot of the Pokemon-playing world is uncompetitive.

If Pokemon games have voice commands, we had better be able to turn them off. Who wants to be quietly playing Pokemon, and have to make a fool out of yourself by telling your DS to use Thunderbolt? Then there arises the problem of it getting the wrong move, the microphone breaking, being in a place with lots of background noise, e.t.c.


In some of my arguments, I haven't really taken a side. I just hope I can add my ideas to the conversation.

 

[skorpion123]

I think gamefreak has acted very wisely so far , and has proven to me that there is no way that they are going to do something as drastic as changing the number of pokemon per team or the number of moves per pokemon. Something new will come in this generation other than the new Pokemon but it would be something else. Something that we will put in use in competitive battling with good results. IMO. Each new generation brought useful new concepts . IMO each time a new generation came , competitive battling improved.

I have faith that neither "real time battling" or voice overs battling or 8party pokemon or more than 4 moves will happen.

 

[Zuki]

Well, with this new generation on the rise, I think we can expect at least one thing..

Dragonite: (Gen 1)

HP: 91
Atk: 134
Def: 95
SpA: 100
SpD: 100
Spe: 80

Tyranitar: (Gen 2)

HP: 100
Atk: 134
Def: 110
SpA: 95
SpD: 100
Spe: 61

Salamence: (Gen 3)

HP: 95
Atk: 135
Def: 80
SpA: 110
SpD: 80
Spe: 100

Garchomp: (Gen 4)

HP: 108
Atk: 130
Def: 95
SpA: 80
SpD: 85
Spe: 102

---

.. an extremely powerful physical pokemon that has a large movepool and good base stats, usually a dragon type (Tyranitar being an exception). With all of these stats, I see one thing in common: Base 130+ Atk. All of these pokemon are physical monsters, that also have a good special movepool to back it up. In Garchomps case, he made it to uber with his type/ability/stats. I personally am afraid of the monster that will come to our metagame this time.

 

[Buba]

^eh: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pseudo_legendary

 

[Zuki]

^eh: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pseudo_legendary

Yeah, those!

 

[cantab]

Metagross was forgotten in Zuki's pseudo-legendary list.

Thinking about it, what I'd love to see is a SPECIAL pseudo-legendary. I'm sure with 600BST to play with, one could create a special sweeper that could bust through Blissey, especially if it's part fighting. (Maybe Fighting/Ghost?)

 

[Zuki]

Metagross was forgotten in Zuki's pseudo-legendary list.

Thinking about it, what I'd love to see is a SPECIAL pseudo-legendary. I'm sure with 600BST to play with, one could create a special sweeper that could bust through Blissey, especially if it's part fighting. (Maybe Fighting/Ghost?)

With that being said, I could see a possibility of a special equivalent of Dragon Dance. Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence all got that, and even other non-psuedo legends got it like Gyarados to name one. So if the next one IS special, I would expect it to at least be able to raise Spe and SpA +1 at the same time.

 

[skorpion123]

Why is Heatran not a Pseudo-legendary ?

Edit . Is anyone willing to bet whether the physical supremacy will be challenged in the new generation ?

 

[cantab]

Because it's an actual legendary.

Speaking of Heatran...it is unique as being the only legendary with a random gender. I wonder if there'll be a 5th gen legendary Pokemon that can breed with Heatran, to produce a third legendary? Lava + ? = !

EDIT: The 'physical supremacy' arises mainly because of Blissey. So the only way to change it would be to introduce a similarly good physical wall. But that would just either make the metagame a stallfest like GSC was, or require such an offensive boost that nothing besides Blissey and Phys-Blissey stood a hope at walling.

2ND EDIT: Or I guess they could overpower Blissey so it became definite Uber.

 

[Zuki]

I do absolutely hope that we have a new way to take care of Blissey with this generation. Also, keep in mind that all the pokemon won't be offensive threats, but some might be large defensive threats as well, which means more ways to stall, use bulky offense, etc.

 

[MegaKick]

about the mike thing, I was overexagerating just to get the point across-and what if you want to battle in a noisy plase
it will stay 4 moveslots, 6 pokemon.
speciel dragon dance please, give it to Lucario (higher sp. att), plus giving it to alakazam and porygon-z would send them instantley to BL
Which reminds me, how are tiers determined in a new generation? Do we dump all non ubers into one big tier, and the end of the months statistics determine UU?

 

[skorpion123]

How did they do it , in the last generation switch ? I think after an adjuration period where some new pokemon that are uber level (but not completly obvious so) will be allowed , they will also be banned and things would move to normal.

About Physical Blissey. Please God NOO. One Blissey is enough. I wouldn't mind some more physical walls to compensate for no new blissey (and the fact that right now we have more special walls than physical walls and nothing is like Blissey in the physical side) but they don't have to be Blissey level in the way they counter physical defensive threats.

 

[zarator]

How did they do it , in the last generation switch ? I think after an adjuration period where some new pokemon that are uber level (but not completly obvious so) will be allowed , they will also be banned and things would move to normal.

Last generation switch does not count that much, since our policy in regard to tiering as changed a lot in the meanwhile. Anyway, I think the most probable thing is a direct ban for cartridge legendaries (Mewtwo, Lugia, Ho-oh, Groudon, Kyogre, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, the new cartridge gen V legendaries), and everything on that level (Arceus, Wobbuffet, MAYBE Darkrai, Deoxys and Mew, possibly some of the new legends). Everything else (Salamence, Garchomp, Manaphy, Lati twins, Shaymin-S, etc) will get a chance for a new test. This, obviously, assumes that the new gen changes will be drastic enough to justify a re-test (but past examples tend to hint that this will be the case).

About Physical Blissey. Please God NOO. One Blissey is enough. I wouldn't mind some more physical walls to compensate for no new blissey (and the fact that right now we have more special walls than physical walls and nothing is like Blissey in the physical side) but they don't have to be Blissey level in the way they counter physical defensive threats.

Don't worry, If I remember correctly, a topic made several months (maybe even a year or two) ago proved that it is impossible, with the current mechanics, to create a physical version of Blissey (i.e. basically switching Blissey's Defense and Sp.Def). I do not remember exactly the particulars, but the main reason for this was that there is no type (or type combination) which can grant the kind of neutrality which atm Normal boasts towards the special side (obviously, if Special Fighting moves become more common like I hope they will, this may change in the future). In other words, no matter which type you think of, there is a powerful (and fairly well distributed) physical move which can hit it supereffectively.

 

[No winners]

No way we need a physical Blissey. What we do need is a special threat that can deal with Blissey and still be effective(so no focus punch sub Gengar). Make the game more offensive, there's too much stall for my liking. But, I agree with whoever said the got better each generation, because I think it has.

 

[skorpion123]

Well it may be dual type , Dark Ghost. Though I seriously doubt it as at all likely. (that we will have a new dark ghost with Blissey stats only on physical defence). Plus Ghosts in general have small HP . Water Ground is also good physical defensive typing combination IMO. I agree that there is no monotype as good defensively for physical attacks as is Normal for special attacks.

Last generation switch does not count that much, since our policy in regard to tiering as changed a lot in the meanwhile. Anyway, I think the most probable thing is a direct ban for cartridge legendaries (Mewtwo, Lugia, Ho-oh, Groudon, Kyogre, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, the new cartridge gen V legendaries), and everything on that level (Arceus, Wobbuffet, MAYBE Darkrai, Deoxys and Mew, possibly some of the new legends). Everything else (Salamence, Garchomp, Manaphy, Lati twins, Shaymin-S, etc) will get a chance for a new test. This, obviously, assumes that the new gen changes will be drastic enough to justify a re-test (but past examples tend to hint that this will be the case).

I see Manaphy getting a new test or even being allowed until things are decided but i seriously doubt that Garchomp will be retested or allowed. And I am don't know about Latios or Shaymin.

I don't think that Garchomp will be retested.

 

[Age of Kings]

I would either like a nerfed Stealth Rock, or making a new Rapid Spin-like move of a type that has no immunities and give it a wide(r) distribution. Stealth Rock imo has always been broken, and having a way to reduce its potency would make the new metagame interesting since people are so damn dependent on it, regardless of playstyle. I doubt there would be though.

 

[lordkira]

Metagross was forgotten in Zuki's pseudo-legendary list.

Thinking about it, what I'd love to see is a SPECIAL pseudo-legendary. I'm sure with 600BST to play with, one could create a special sweeper that could bust through Blissey, especially if it's part fighting. (Maybe Fighting/Ghost?)

This would be awesome.
I always wanted the meta (OU) to have more powerhouses in the spA spectrum

No more PokeSlot

More MoveSlot, please

And, btw, I really hope to see a new balanced type system :D

Dragon now is just too...powerful, and only 1 type can shut it down T^T

I don't think this is likely to happen as I believe they created the dragon type solely as a powerful/cool type :D

EDIT: oh and i hope for a move with def+/speed+ or spD/spe+

 

[Age of Kings]

EDIT: oh and i hope for a move with def+/speed+ or spD/spe+

What would find a use for that? Boosting defense and speed makes no sense.

 

[skorpion123]

What would find a use for that? You either boost your offense or your defense, not a mix of both that would seem to accomplish little.

It could be somewhat useful in BP teams. (provided that the user has BP) But i don't want them t(BP teams) to become more popular so let's hope it doesn't happen.

 

[Age of Kings]

BP teams aren't too popular to begin with, and there are good boosting moves out there for that purpose. Practically, it makes no sense.

 

[zarator]

I would either like a nerfed Stealth Rock, or making a new Rapid Spin-like move of a type that has no immunities and give it a wide(r) distribution. Stealth Rock imo has always been broken, and having a way to reduce its potency would make the new metagame interesting since people are so damn dependent on it, regardless of playstyle. I doubt there would be though.

Do you realize that Stealth Rock (and Spikes, to a lesser extent) are probably what is keeping Focus Sash from being the dominant item (maybe to the point of brokenness)? If SR didn't exist, Focus Sash Salamence or Gyarados (or Gengar, or Azelf, etc) would running rampant (or, in an alterantive scenario, we would see Hippowdon, Tyranitar and Abomasnow on every team, which is far worse in terms of overcentralization than seeing SR on every team), and would be extremely difficult to stop, especially for defensive teams. SR is what allow defensive, stallish teams to deal with these threats in an acceptable way (although I understand SR is very useful for offense too). No SR has far more wide consequences than making Moltres, Charizard and Articuno viable, and few of them are actually desirable.

 

[lordkira]

What would find a use for that? Boosting defense and speed makes no sense.

would be good for tanking

 

[skorpion123]

Alternatively it would be good to somehow limit SR damage against fire , ice and bug pokemon. Maybe limit SR usefulness , by changing the way it does damage without making it useless. i.e It's the "opposite" of spikes (technically it isn't the opposite ) it hits for double damage Flying types (and everything else for normal damage) but not the ones i mentioned. (it hits them normal damage isntead of super effective.

 

[Zuki]

What would find a use for that? Boosting defense and speed makes no sense.

Pokemon with already great offensive stats but low speed and defences would enjoy a move like that.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

I find it funny that one of the biggest complaints of this gen was the ubiquity of Stealth Rock (and the "shitty" effect of Toxic Spikes) and the massive impact of hazards as a whole, and now we have people suggesting Stealth Glaciers and Burn Spikes.


You know guys, you don't change a winning team. You don't fuck over even more with a loser one either >_>