Japanese Movie Celebi Confirmed

[Oberon]

The dogs will have fixed natures. Hopefully celebi won't though.

Fixed natures? Better not be a neutral nature, or Bold Suicune w/ Air Slash will be illegal, as will Timid Raikou w/ Aura Sphere. >:

But for competitive sakes, no one cares. Raikou. <3

Was anyone else immediately tempted to slap 252 HP EVs on Entei and put it in a TR team when he saw Flare Blitz + Extremespeed?

... I actually did think that for a bit. Entei's bulk could pull it off.

 

[Age of Kings]

I went through this thread and many of the calcs posted for Aura Sphere vs Ttar are inaccurate. Note that Sandstorm is not immediately accounted for if you use the on-site damage calculator.

Though +1 LO Aura Sphere OHKOs the Careful variant with rocks down most of the time anyways.

 

[Oberon]

Is it possible to RNG Pokemon after you receive your wonder card? :O

 

[Zangetsu]

OUTSPED 252/216 Careful Tyranitar - Aura Sphere 128.7% - 151.5% (OHKO)

I don't think you factored in SS because it would do 85.1% - 101%. I was skeptical at first of this because I recall 252/252 Careful Tyranitar will NOT be KO'd by +1 Mewtwo Aurasphere. 4 Atk Tyranitar does 73.3% - 86.3% to Raikou. Perhaps we'll see some Garchomp-esque strategy for Raikou with Scizor BP finishing it off?

 

[Squidd]

I guess this is the Raikou thread. Raikou.

This thing actually has better offensive stats than Latias, and with a relatively easy CM, blissey. With sub, it can probably beat blissey without seismic toss. Fighting + Electric + Ice is essentially perfect too. (though you have to leave out sub)

Life Orb set is best i think. You just want a turn of setup and then sweep. Get rid of Blissey by using a lure of some sort :)

Raikou has definetely benefitted the most from these new moves.

Celebi and her Nasty Plot 'coverage' can go rot in a pile of scrap Metagross.
Suicune is already brilliant.
Pure fire types can go to hell also. Bye Entei.

 

[Lucalibur]

with raikou going to BL (or OU) i can finnaly make a decent UU team that dont need to have a pokemon with more then 361 speed to win every battle (though i love using sceptile), those calcs are amazing and while aura sphere dont make a lot of sense on raikou (and we still got the nature problem) it still something good for him AND me.

 

[M BLADE]

HP Ice?
Why not a combination of Thunderbolt/Aura Sphere/Shadow Ball? You're still going to hit Latias for SE, an +1 Thunderbolt already OHKO Salamence (maybe not Dragonite... maybe).


The only one you'll be missing is Flygon, i believe (which is normally Scarfed anyway).
Well, maybe Breloom too...


About Entei: Well, Pressure does not help it like Intimidate/Flash Fire Arcanine (it does help on the "Crotei set though).
And Arcanine has recovery... but then Entei has Stone Edge, which easily OHKO some UU monsters like Moltres, Houndoom and the like.

 

[Squidd]

I don't think you factored in SS because it would do 85.1% - 101%. I was skeptical at first of this because I recall 252/252 Careful Tyranitar will NOT be KO'd by +1 Mewtwo Aurasphere. 4 Atk Tyranitar does 73.3% - 86.3% to Raikou. Perhaps we'll see some Garchomp-esque strategy for Raikou with Scizor BP finishing it off?

Ah well spotted :P but that cursetar set (which is the only set that is going to use a spread like that in this metagame) is doing 55% - 64.6% with a payback,its strongest move on that set unboosted. so its quite likely you can continue rampaging. I don't know where you got 73.3-86.3 from :S (says me who forgot sandstorm.... =])

Also,lets not forgot Tyranitar is taking 12% from rocks. Small chance of Tyranitar living? Yes I'll take that tyvm.

HP Ice?
Why not a combination of Thunderbolt/Aura Sphere/Shadow Ball? You're still going to hit Latias for SE, an +1 Thunderbolt already OHKO Salamence (maybe not Dragonite... maybe).

And also: no problems with Nautures!

Shadow ball doesn't get the ohko on 4/0 Latias so nothing lost from HP Ice. Also you hit Gliscor with HP ice. Dragonite is OHKOed with rocks. Breloom is OHKOed by aura sphere+rocks. Thunderbolt doesn't get the kill on specially defensive Salamence/Dragonite either. But yeah shadowball isn't needed at all really. Rotom is simply setup bait. So I think thunderbolt/aura sphere/hp ice is offering the most.

What do you mean no problems with natures? You lost me^^

 

[Lucalibur]

specially defensice mence? lol, that shit is a gimmick and 100% outclassed by nite, either way its true that any non-scarf trick rotom is setup bait so shadow ball is not THAT useful (it was used before only because he lacked coverage)

 

[cmurph]

Oh shit. Nasty Plot on Celebi. The new Manaphy, anyone??

what would the moveset be? Assuming you use grass as your main STAB, two attack movesets are walled shitless by heatran and either steel types or dragon types depending on which hidden power you use. 3 attack movesets can cover heatran with earth power, but face the same issue of dragons vs. steels.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

what would the moveset be? Assuming you use grass as your main STAB, two attack movesets are walled shitless by heatran and either steel types or dragon types depending on which hidden power you use. 3 attack movesets can cover heatran with earth power, but face the same issue of dragons vs. steels.

Nasty Plot / Earth Power / HP Ice / Grass Knot. Besides Skarmory and Magnet Rise fuckers, you cover everything important. Am I correct?

 

[cmurph]

Nasty Plot / Earth Power / HP Ice / Grass Knot. Besides Skarmory and Magnet Rise fuckers, you cover everything important. Am I correct?

ahh yeah i forgot earth power hits steels pretty hard. that actually sounds like a scary set to face.

 

[lati0s]

azelf, heracross rotom, gengar, and bronzong are not hit effectively by that moveset. I do not count non stab HP as effective, it is weaker than a resisted icebeam/surf/flamethrower.

 

[DDRMaster]

Nasty Plot / Earth Power / HP Ice / Grass Knot. Besides Skarmory and Magnet Rise fuckers, you cover everything important. Am I correct?

At first I thought it would still get raped by Scizor, but +2 LO max SpAtk Timid Earthpower does 74.1% - 87.5% to standard Choice Band Scizor so it could work. It'll still have to watch out for Scarftar, though. Also, you mean Bronzong, not Skarmory right? Since Skarmory takes neutral damage from HP Ice and Bronzong is the only thing that resists Ground + Ice.

 

[Anachronism]

For the record Fighting/Electric misses out on 5 pokemon in OU: Celebi, Gliscor, Latias, Roserade, and Rotom-A. Sorry if someone has mentioned all of these already but it had to be said.

3/5 are taken care of with shadow ball and 4/5 take super effective damage from hidden power ice. LO is going to be good though.

 

[haxer321]

Even if raikou gets aura sphere and extremespeed, he's not going anywhere. In OU, he is outclassed by Zapdos and Jolteon. Jolteon has more speed, Zapdos has more sp.attack and matches raikou's bulk. Also, Raikou has no way to recover his health outside of rest, while Jolteon has Volt Absorb, and Zapdos has Roost.

 

[deluge]

Neither Zapdos nor Jolteon have reliable ways to boost their SpA.
If Raikou made it to OU it would occupy a different niche from the other electric types.
Why mess about with Charge Beam Rotom-A/Magnezone/Jolteon when there's Raikou with access to Calm Mind and good coverage?
None of the OU Electric types invest in being set up sweepers primarily, but I feel that would be Raikou's niche.

BTW, I hope thqt in future games they get these moves as a standard.

 

[Phantom_IV]

Seems like Expert Belt might be a decent choice for Raikou, as it leaves him much less vulnerable to revenge kills from Luke/Scizor. Speaking of which, Scizor are going to start running Quick Attack over Pursuit to hit Raikou harder.

Additionally, many more pokes are going to be running resist berries to lure and finish Raikou.

Anyone smell Electivire coming back into use?

Going to finish this post off with a prediction that Raikou will become a suspect due to its offensive ability. Ghost-Fighting for perfect coverage and high speed, decent bulk, CM to boost attack. Not to mention that electric is a good typing with only one weakness.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Thing about Baton Passing is that it is a nice way to get around a sweeper's lack of coverage or sweeping limitations. This is especially nice for Celebi, as grass has horrible coverage.

With its bulk and 100 base speed, Celebi could opt for a A) Sweep or B) Pass with a really fast timid set that has the chance to use the boost or pass off when it runs into the counter. Or, it's just slow enough and tough enough that it could go the opposite route, using 0 speed ev/iv and planning to be a dedicated slow passer that protects the switch-in.

It has a lot of opportunities in either direction.

Obviously while passing Nasty Plot, the 3 key ingredients to a good pass-target are:

a) Bulk/survivability (good defenses and/or resistances/immunities)
b) Speed (a Priority move is especially desirable, but seeing as Vacuum Wave is the only special one available, limited opportunities there.
c) Movepool-- needs both good coverage and base power to make use of Nasty Plot.

 

[Syberia]

IMO, Heatran might be a good candidate. It resists all of Celebi's weaknesses and can take on most things that would switch in on it besides Infernape, it could then sub up on the switch (maybe even down to Salac range since it resists Bullet Punch, Extremespeed, and Ice Shard), and sweep with excellent coverage.

 

[Chou Toshio]

^That actually sounds pretty sick. Heatran's coverage and speed aren't incredible, but it has the power to hurt things extremely hard even with resisted fire blasts (lol +2 from Nasty Plot, maybe even picking up flash-fire aimed at Celebi), and subtitute is already an amazing move on even standard heatran sets. Plus, non-choice heatran is always liking items that let it fake being choiced (ie. no leftovers recover, LO damage etc. to blow the gig).

Then I thought how it's a pity that heatran is susceptible to thunderwaves, when I remembered something else sick about B-Pass Celebi.

Even if you are running a timid LO set, you can make slow passes by absorbing thunderwaves. By switching into thunderwave on something that loves to abuse the move, you can pick up the paralysis, making you slow, and then pass out safely after setting up, curing paralysis with natural cure and bringing your sweeper in without any fear of status.

Of course, that strategy would be bait if a Scizor switched in as you nasty plotted, but as long as we're imagining crazy celebi-based teams, you could always include a magnezone to take Scizor out before the action got started.

Hell, Sub-Salac Magnezone might be a ridiculous partner for Nasty-Plot-Pass Celebi anyway, again resisting Extreme Speed, Ice Shard and Bullet Punch.

 

[Cloud9.]

Nasty plot (L)

 

[Quadrophenia]

What everone's forgetting here is that if you run CM, TBolt, Aura Sphere and Shadow Ball, you're basically running the old set but with an improved move in the form of Aura Sphere.

Raikou usually faces DDTar, CBTar or ScarfTar. +1 HP Fighting OHKOs the first two with SR and even with Aura Sphere, Raikou is helpless against ScarfTar. Furthermore, if you run the set above, you get utterly owned by Swampert which is why I currently and will continue to use HP Grass instead of Aura Sphere since my team easily deals with TTar.

 

[SunshineCat]

I'm loving Air Slash Suicune, has some potential with a good nature.

 

[Squidd]

What everone's forgetting here is that if you run CM, TBolt, Aura Sphere and Shadow Ball, you're basically running the old set but with an improved move in the form of Aura Sphere.

Raikou usually faces DDTar, CBTar or ScarfTar. +1 HP Fighting OHKOs the first two with SR and even with Aura Sphere, Raikou is helpless against ScarfTar. Furthermore, if you run the set above, you get utterly owned by Swampert which is why I currently and will continue to use HP Grass instead of Aura Sphere since my team easily deals with TTar.

cool....except that isn't raikous best set in ou. as repeatedly stated above by not just me.....the best set is almost always going to be thunderbolt/hp ice/aura sphere/calm mind (for a life orb set anyway). raikou can always spam aura spheres the first time it comes in (hurting the common switchins tyranitar...swampert...blissey..stuff that resist electric...ya no?) then when you know the opponents team...you can come in and CM where appropriate. And yeahhhhh a moveslot pretty much exclsuively for swampert? yeah no thanks .... it can be eliminated prior to raikou meeting it.