Salamence Theorymonning

[KurashiDragon]

Sacrificing a pokemon in order to kill one of theirs does not make their pokemon broken. It's part of the game. No team can counter every offensive threat.

I also think the team you run has a huge effect on your opinion. Like I said earlier, my team has absolutely no problem with salamence, so the "it's dominant" comments are completely lost on me. However, Jirachi has always given my team problems, so i've always wondered when that little shit is going to be banned. The point is that we're all biased, and noone has played a salaless game yet.

Above poster, you don't actually expect people to take you seriously do you? Petty insults and childish name-calling backed up by non-facts aren't going to win you any support.

I was actually joking around by giving some cheap humor. If I offended you I apoligize. However, this post is full of people who keep saying the same thing over and over and over again without giving any clear facts as to why salamence deserves to stay ou. I just thought "might as well give them something to read my post about and hopefully they'll understand that they're not giving any sorta solid evidence whatsoever. there are other qualms with your post but I just wanted to clear that up.

1. It's far more clear on Salamence than any other poke in the ou metgame. Salamence can quite literally tear apart the entire metagame. It has no hard counters. What should be a counter is dealt with much easier with salamence because of its stats being the way they are, intimidate and such a large movepool. Give me 3 solid counter and I swear whatever you name I can dish right back with the this movepool will counter it. Sala's viability is another major asset that just can't be addressed in ou either.

Also, like I said before you can't compare dragonite because both its sp. atk and spd are much lower than Salamence and it has a different and much more useless.

It's not Jirachi's fault that it kills your team. You specifically designed your team to counter salamence. You didn't take into account that other pokes are gonna walk all over your team.

 

[kilenem]

I'm not sure if many are aware of this but salamence isn't automatically a one hit wonder.
I recently added DD salamence on my team and he's laughed at by a porygon2 (even with brick break which isn't really stronger than dragon claw) primarily any pokemon with intimidate puts a big dent in any hopes i have of taking down one pokemon let alone a whole team.

With much easier sweeps from the likes of SD scizor and DD gyarados (due to his tuant halting most counters) i was surprised to even hear of Salamence being taken from OU.

 

[KurashiDragon]

The only problem with your post kilenem is that mixed mence laughs right back at porygon2.

How many times are people gonna have to explain this. DD gayra is so much worse than ddmence. It's got less power, the bp of its strongest move doesn't exeed 100 and its got much worse typing. Gayra actually has counters as well. Vaporeon and Suicune are two examples.

ddmence is so much easier to set up than sd scizor. Heatran is the main cause of that. Especially Scarf heatran. Magnezone is a good counter to scizor as well. Both of which force it out and not making it much of a threat in the long run. Also Scarf and bulky rotom's ruin scizor's day. Will-o-wisp is just a pain to get around..... if it doesn't miss I'll agree with your future post there.

 

[blasphemy1]

I'm not sure if many are aware of this but salamence isn't automatically a one hit wonder.
I recently added DD salamence on my team and he's laughed at by a porygon2 (even with brick break which isn't really stronger than dragon claw) primarily any pokemon with intimidate puts a big dent in any hopes i have of taking down one pokemon let alone a whole team.

With much easier sweeps from the likes of SD scizor and DD gyarados (due to his tuant halting most counters) i was surprised to even hear of Salamence being taken from OU.

Draco Meteor from the new MixMence (Naive 240 SpA) does 73%-86.1% to the defensive duck (Bold 252 HP / 0 SpD), with the classic MixMence (Rash 252 SpA) doing 81.3%-95.7%. In either case it's a guaranteed 2HKO, though the latter has a chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock. That's the main problem with Salamence: it's versatility. It's just too fast, too powerful, and too diverse. No threat is comparable. I really can't wait to test the metagame without him.

 

[Boondocker]

I'm not sure if many are aware of this but salamence isn't automatically a one hit wonder.
I recently added DD salamence on my team and he's laughed at by a porygon2 (even with brick break which isn't really stronger than dragon claw) primarily any pokemon with intimidate puts a big dent in any hopes i have of taking down one pokemon let alone a whole team.

With much easier sweeps from the likes of SD scizor and DD gyarados (due to his tuant halting most counters) i was surprised to even hear of Salamence being taken from OU.

If you have an easier time sweaping with sd scizor then you do dd mence you arent playing very good players. Most teams have 4-5 pokes that are faster then scizor and resist steel as well as some very sturdy counters (heatran, rotom, gyrados). Yes, p2 counters dd mence. Im not saying certian sets dont have counters. But the trouble is deciding what set your facing. If you bring that p2 into a mixmence it gets 1hkod. All the stuff that beats mixmence loses to dd mence and vice versa. Both sets have perfect coverage and its basically a cointoss as to witch set your facing. And a wrong guess can cost you the game. Also, mence still kod gyra after sr, and no team should be required to use p2 just to deal with 1 varient of mence.

 

[kilenem]

If you have an easier time sweaping with sd scizor then you do dd mence you arent playing very good players. Most teams have 4-5 pokes that are faster then scizor and resist steel as well as some very sturdy counters (heatran, rotom, gyrados). Yes, p2 counters dd mence. Im not saying certian sets dont have counters. But the trouble is deciding what set your facing. If you bring that p2 into a mixmence it gets 1hkod. All the stuff that beats mixmence loses to dd mence and vice versa. Both sets have perfect coverage and its basically a cointoss as to witch set your facing. And a wrong guess can cost you the game. Also, mence still kod gyra after sr, and no team should be required to use p2 just to deal with 1 varient of mence.

I don't actually see the threat posed by a gyarados after 1 bug bite (with my SR up) they're dispatched by the following bullet punch and heatran is handled or scared by my blissey (who by the way i think should be Uber) as is rotom. Also this same blissey of mine gets rid of salamence and can recover back to full health.

The only problem with your post kilenem is that mixed mence laughs right back at porygon2.

How many times are people gonna have to explain this. DD gayra is so much worse than ddmence. It's got less power, the bp of its strongest move doesn't exeed 100 and its got much worse typing. Gayra actually has counters as well. Vaporeon and Suicune are two examples.

ddmence is so much easier to set up than sd scizor. Heatran is the main cause of that. Especially Scarf heatran. Magnezone is a good counter to scizor as well. Both of which force it out and not making it much of a threat in the long run. Also Scarf and bulky rotom's ruin scizor's day. Will-o-wisp is just a pain to get around..... if it doesn't miss I'll agree with your future post there.

With the high frequency of CB scizor with superpower these two checks are often exposed to a OHKO and both were countered by my shed shell, scarf HP ground Magnezone combination, and are currently neutralized by a blissey.

Honestly I'm not that high on the ladder and haven't experienced mixed mence from a top player but the one's i've seen are also rendered useless by blissey or outrage to see their demise in my scizor.

However porygon2 being defensive leaves my DD+2 doing 25% damage and from your stats it seems a max HP sp.ef would be able to recover fro a draco meteor and dismiss and go on to the next. I shall test this kind of team in time for the suspect and get back to this forum later.

 

[S.T.A.R.S.]

Basically we are banning Mence because he has no decent switch ins? As I see it now, Mence really doesn't have any concrete switch-ins giving its large move pool, BUT just because it doesn't have any body that can switch into Mence it is considered broken? Mence can be revenge killed with NO problem, by plenty of pokemon.

 

[Gairyuki789]

1. It's far more clear on Salamence than any other poke in the ou metgame. Salamence can quite literally tear apart the entire metagame.

It seems that the dragon type as a whole is tearing up the metagame from what i'm seeing, first Garchomp gets banned, Latias is unbanned for a while then rebanned and now Salamance is up to bat, Dragonite, Flygon and Kingdra might as well be banned too at this rate.

It has no hard counters. What should be a counter is dealt with much easier with salamence because of its stats being the way they are, intimidate and such a large movepool. Give me 3 solid counter and I swear whatever you name I can dish right back with the this movepool will counter it.

There's no point because while you can make a paper argument over it. Once a battle starts you ain't gonna know what set a Salamance is packing. So you can never truely counter it.

Also, like I said before you can't compare dragonite because both its sp. atk and spd are much lower than Salamence and it has a different and much more useless.

Dragonite has more bulk than Salamance does as well as access to a priority move since HG/SS came out, in my honest opinion that ties things up.

Power alone does not determine a battle, nor does having "perfect counters" seriously do you people want the metagame to be like that, people using the same pokemon with the same movesets over and over? That would get boring really quick. Versatility in a pokemon is a good thing, which by the way all Dragons have not just Salamance.

 

[Efemera]

Basically we are banning Mence because he has no decent switch ins? As I see it now, Mence really doesn't have any concrete switch-ins giving its large move pool, BUT just because it doesn't have any body that can switch into Mence it is considered broken? Mence can be revenge killed with NO problem, by plenty of pokemon.

Oh great, you're back. How exactly do you revenge kill Salamence without losing a Pokemon to it first? And there's a thing called switching you should look into.

^above
Salamence has Intimidate. This gives it more physical bulk than Dragonite.
Extremespeed is a great priority move, but it's really just a crappy means of compensation for being worse than Salamence at everything else. Normal is resisted by Steel, which is the most common type to switch into any Dragon.

 

[gvmgvm40]

I'm on the fence about Mence being broken but good lord, why did I waste 30 precious minutes of my life reading this topic?

Salamence has 2 different sets in MixMence and DDMence. Both are equally deadly and it has no solid counters. Having no counters != broken, but Salamence isn't like Gengar, Lucario or Infernape in that it doesn't have to resort to stupid gimmicks to eliminate its counters. One wrong prediction can cost you a Pokemon. On the other hand, there are many Pokemon that can force Mence out with right prediction and between LO recoil, SR and the ever-present SS, it dies too quick. Gimmicky variants like Bulky DD or Sub DD are easy to wall since they can only run one of EQ and Fire Blast.

EDIT:

It seems that the dragon type as a whole is tearing up the metagame from what i'm seeing, first Garchomp gets banned, Latias is unbanned for a while then rebanned and now Salamance is up to bat, Dragonite, Flygon and Kingdra might as well be banned too at this rate.

Oh fucking god. Do Kingdra/Flygon even come close to Salamence's sheer destructive power? Dragonite is too slow. I'm not arguing that Salamence is broken (or the opposite) but people saying "and next you ban gible" should be hanged, drawn and quartered.

 

[Shao]

Since my previous post was deleted, I might as well elaborate some more.

Salamence is indeed a one of the most powerful threats in OU metagame, no objections. But,"Salamence is Uber". Really? I disagree with this statement. In order to elaborate my point of view, I'll briefly analize its most popular sets.

On Versatility and Unpredictability:
Many points about this are true, however, sometimes, you can assume accurately which set is being used. DDMence is arguably more effective at the late game, when his counters and revenge killers are already KO'd or severely damaged, while MixMence can deal with a multitude of situations and is more suited for midgame(I'm not saying it isn't effective at the late stages of the game). So, if a Salamence switches at the lategame, most of times you can assume it's a DDMence and vice-versa.
"But what if I let a DDMence setup at the midgame?"
Too bad, you'll probably lose a Pokémon(this kind of stuff happens very often when you let a dangerous Pokémon setup), but your team should still have answers for that, bring in your soft counter / revenge killer and take that bitch down!

DDMence:
Very powerful set, can sweep through many teams, it has amazing coverage and relies on setup do to serious damage(it might work without any setup at all, though). In order to setup, it's very common to sacrifice your own Pokémon or going through some risky prediction for a setup turn, if you are giving away completely free setup tickets, there is something wrong with you or your team. Once it setups, at the midgame, you're either forced to predict or sacrifice a Pokémon, while at the lategame, needless to say, you're pretty much dead unless you still have a soft counter or a revenge killer. Most Dancers, Plotters, etc, can force this very situation, or similar situations, actually. There are some who say Salamence is substantially bulkier than most deadly sweepers, because of its decent base HP, average defences and a big plus, Intimidate, which is true. However, Stealth Rock heavily limits its bulk and ability to switch in, take Life Orb into account and you'll see Salamence, in fact, isn't that bulky. Of course there's Rapid Spin and team support, but many Pokémon can bring ravage with properly executed team support. Ultimately, Hippowdon, Swampert, Porygon2 andSuicune can survive boosted Outrages and bring Salamence down, or just phaze it out, if it's locked on Outrage, Skarmory, Jirachi and other Pokémon can do the trick, CB Scizor can also switch in a Outrage and Bullet Punch it down, it's very risky, though. Definitely an amazing set, not denying that, but it can be taken down by several Pokémon, even if you let it setups.

Will write something up about MixMence later.

Thanks everyone, correct me if I'm wrong, please. And grammar, haha. I'm not a native speaker and I didn't revise my post properly.

 

[M Dragon]

As someone said before, we are not in ADV, we can't counter everything. Salamence is just a great sweeper that can hit hard and beat stall, but I don't think it should be uber.
The "one wrong prediction can cost you a Pokemon" thing is true for a lot of OU sweepers like Lucario, Infernape, Gengar, Dragonite, etc, and they don't need gimmicks

 

[S.T.A.R.S.]

Oh great, you're back. How exactly do you revenge kill Salamence without losing a Pokemon to it first? And there's a thing called switching you should look into.

^above
Salamence has Intimidate. This gives it more physical bulk than Dragonite.
Extremespeed is a great priority move, but it's really just a crappy means of compensation for being worse than Salamence at everything else. Normal is resisted by Steel, which is the most common type to switch into any Dragon.

Its called REVENGE kill for a reason, meaning its going to have to kill a pokemon to revenge kill. And Revenge Killing a Mence all depends on the set that a mence has. And its not like your NOT going to lose a pokemon in a battle. Also, do you ALWAYS switch when you see a mence? Its not like, HOLY CRAP MENCE GOTTA SWITCH! No, your always going to lose a pokemon to another. No exceptions. Mence might be hard to switch into, but its not impossible. You just have to know what your doing.

 

[gvmgvm40]

The "one wrong prediction can cost you a Pokemon" thing is true for a lot of OU sweepers like Lucario, Infernape, Gengar, Dragonite, etc, and they don't need gimmicks

How so? How can Gengar beat Blissey, Bronzong or Metagross? How can you beat Gyarados, Tentacruel or Vaporeon with Infernape without deviating from the standard? Tell me how Luke can deal with Dusknoir, Gyarados or Zapdos. All these Pokemon have hard counters to their standard sets. Salamence doesn't. Whether it makes Mence broken or not is another issue, but Salamence certainly is not in the same tier with other OU sweepers in terms of brokenness.

 

[Solace]

Mence is almost unstoppable, unless its caught in Outrage. And if it is +1, then nearly no one is safe.

I personally believe that something that can set up only once and be able to sweep teams in their entirety should be uber. It is clearly too overpowered for OU, you can even read the analysis where it lists counters.

In a nut shell,
Counters:
Scizor- if Mence doesnt Fire Blast
Jirachi- If it doesnt speed tie with Naive DD Mence
Bronzong-2HKO'd by Fire Blast, but has some threatening moves
Metagross + Heatran- Only if scarfed, both useless against DD Mence

Physical walls can take care of Mence to a degree, but still run issues after it becomes +1

If there are no full on counters and safe switch-ins, it should honestly be Uber, since it is most definitely broken in OU.

 

[S.T.A.R.S.]

Okay, I think everybody can agree that there isn't no Concrete switch-ins for mence, depending on the set. But for Revenge killing? Come on now, If i'm a noob for saying this, then please tell me, but isn't Weavile a good revenge killer for mence? I mean, its Base speed is Higher Than mix mence, It has a Prioty move for Dd mence, and with SR and LO damage its almost a certain 0HKO. Now if you ask me, that seems more than enough to be a counter for Mence. But you guys are always going to find something that makes mence seem godly.

 

[S.T.A.R.S.]

You are right, weavile is a good revenge killer. The problem is he cant switch in and is pretty much a waste of a slot if your opponent doesnt have a dd mence. Revenge killing means mence already killed something on your team, witch means hes done his job (and can still switch in later).

Isn't it the job for ANY pokemon to kill another pokemon? Thats what all sweepers made for, to sweep. Thats the point of revenge killing, so you can get your kill back. And just like He can switch out a pokemon, YOU can switch out your pokemon. Also, calling weavile a waste of a slot is a lie. You just don't have a weavile on your team JUST for mences. And your right, Mence is extremely hard to switch into and I agree with you on that.

 

[gvmgvm40]

Okay, I think everybody can agree that there isn't no Concrete switch-ins for mence, depending on the set. But for Revenge killing? Come on now, If i'm a noob for saying this, then please tell me, but isn't Weavile a good revenge killer for mence? I mean, its Base speed is Higher Than mix mence, It has a Prioty move for Dd mence, and with SR and LO damage its almost a certain 0HKO. Now if you ask me, that seems more than enough to be a counter for Mence. But you guys are always going to find something that makes mence seem godly.

For the umpteenth time:

Using Weavile is a handicap itself and if you have to sacrifice a Pokemon just to force something out you've just proved the point of the opposition. Also just like how you cannot have 3 layers on Spikes, 2 layers of TS and SR on one side with nothing on the other side, you cannot assume perfect prediction on the defender's side and say "well you have to switch carefully".

A counter can switch in all the time regardless of the move used and wall/force the opposition out. A check can come in only a few times and thus isn't totally reliable. A revenge killer can only come in after a kill and force the opposition out.


Thank you.

Also may I ask, what the fuck is a 0HKO?

 

[Boondocker]

As someone said before, we are not in ADV, we can't counter everything. Salamence is just a great sweeper that can hit hard and beat stall, but I don't think it should be uber.
The "one wrong prediction can cost you a Pokemon" thing is true for a lot of OU sweepers like Lucario, Infernape, Gengar, Dragonite, etc, and they don't need gimmicks

No, its not true for other pokemon. Blissey counters gengar outside of a gimmick subpunch set. Infernape is checked by gengar no matter what it does. Vaporeon is also a solid counter outside of sd sets, in witch case hippowodon makes a solid counter. Lucario needs ice punch to beat gliscor, and that means giving up crunch and getting walled by bulky ghosts. Agililuke is the exception but he has no way to raise his attcak, so he is countered by bulky walls. Dragonite is in the same boat as salamence, but he is much slower so he is easier to revenge kill. Also, im not too sure he doesnt deserve a test himself.

Salamence gets perfect coverage in both his main sets (mixed and dd). He hits EVERY poke in the game with either a 180bp (360 if super effective) outrage, 240bp fireblast, 200bp earthquake, or a 210bp draco meteor(420 if super effective). Nothing else has that kind of power. Literaly EVERYTHING that resists dragon is hit super effectively by fire blast or eq. Gengar and friends can only dream of hitting all the types that resist their main stab super effectively. Even a set of shadow ball, energy ball, focus blast, hp fire, thunderbolt (yes 5 moves) only hits electric types with a 120bp move, as well as pokes like kingdra and dragonite. Mence hits every poke with a minimum of 180bp, witch is another reason why hes on a different level than other sweepers.

Okay, I think everybody can agree that there isn't no Concrete switch-ins for mence, depending on the set. But for Revenge killing? Come on now, If i'm a noob for saying this, then please tell me, but isn't Weavile a good revenge killer for mence? I mean, its Base speed is Higher Than mix mence, It has a Prioty move for Dd mence, and with SR and LO damage its almost a certain 0HKO. Now if you ask me, that seems more than enough to be a counter for Mence. But you guys are always going to find something that makes mence seem godly.

You are right, weavile is a good revenge killer. The problem is he cant switch in and is pretty much a waste of a slot if your opponent doesnt have a dd mence. Revenge killing means mence already killed something on your team, witch means hes done his job (and can still switch in later).

Also may I ask, what the fuck is a 0HKO?

A one hit knock out

 

[Unholy]

Okay, I think everybody can agree that there isn't no Concrete switch-ins for mence, depending on the set. But for Revenge killing? Come on now, If i'm a noob for saying this, then please tell me, but isn't Weavile a good revenge killer for mence? I mean, its Base speed is Higher Than mix mence, It has a Prioty move for Dd mence, and with SR and LO damage its almost a certain 0HKO. Now if you ask me, that seems more than enough to be a counter for Mence. But you guys are always going to find something that makes mence seem godly.

Do you not grasp the concept of a counter? A counter must be able to safely switch in on most of a Pokemon's attacks. Weavile and Mamoswine cannot safely switch in on any of Salamence's damaging attacks.

 

[S.T.A.R.S.]

Please shut up and stop posting.

For the umpteenth time:

Using Weavile is a handicap and if you have to sacrifice a Pokemon just to force something out you've just proved the point of the opposition. Also just like how you cannot have 3 layers on Spikes, 2 layers of TS and SR on one side with nothing on the other side, you cannot assume perfect prediction on the defender's side and say "well you have to switch carefully".

A counter can switch in all the time regardless of the move used and wall/force the opposition out. A check can come in only a few times and thus isn't totally reliable. A revenge killer can only come in after a kill and force the opposition out.

Weavile isn't a goddamn fucking counter to Salamence.

Thank you.

Also may I ask, what the fuck is a 0HKO?

Why do you people really have to resort to cursing and insulting people to make your point? Anyway How is using a Weavile a Handicap? Weavile isn't as useless as you make it seem, Also, if Weavile Ice Shard/Punch A mence, its as good as gone With or without SR/Spikes/TS. Maybe I used the wrong term, but still, just because a pokemon doesn't have a ONE concrete counter its considered Broken and should be moved to Uber? Just because you can't "safetly" switch-in to a mence makes it so godly that its has to be removed?

 

[SJCrew]

You just don't have a weavile on your team JUST for mences.

Let me do you one better. Here's a list of things Weavile effectively revenge kills:

- Gengar
- Celebi
- Rotom A
- Salamence
- Dragonite
- Flygon
- Mamoswine
- Snorlax
- Lucario (w/out Vacuum Wave, since Espeed does not KO after SR damage)
- Zapdos
- Dusknoir
- Azelf
- Aerodactyl
- Gliscor
- non-scarf Heatran
- Magnezone
- Starmie
- Roserade
- Togekiss
- Tyranitar

If it's really obvious any one of them will switch use Pursuit. Also, you can block status from annoying walls like Celebi and Rotom with Taunt if they're not low enough to kill just yet. A Taunt/Ice Shard/Pursuit/Low Kick set is surprisingly effective, as it keeps bulky sweepers from setting up on you and allows Weavile to do its job effectively at the cost of some power. Gengar and Outraging dragons still have no chance in hell of getting away, lol.

If you can't find a slot on your team for Weavile, then w/e, that's fine, but please know what you're talking about before you go on a tirade about how "useless" it is.

oh, and btw stars, if you claim Weavile is a sweeper one more time, I'm afraid I'll have to flay you alive.

 

[Boondocker]

Why do you people really have to resort to cursing and insulting people to make your point? Anyway How is using a Weavile a Handicap? Weavile isn't as useless as you make it seem, Also, if Weavile Ice Shard/Punch A mence, its as good as gone With or without SR/Spikes/TS. Maybe I used the wrong term, but still, just because a pokemon doesn't have a ONE concrete counter its considered Broken and should be moved to Uber?

People are getting frustrated with you because its obvious that you dont have a lot of competitive experience and cant seem to understand out points. There is much more to the arguement then "mence has no counters so its uber". And yes, weavile is as useless as we make it seem.

Let me do you one better. Here's a list of things Weavile effectively revenge kills:

- Gengar
- Celebi
- Rotom A
- Salamence
- Dragonite
- Flygon
- Mamoswine
- Snorlax
- Lucario (w/out Vacuum Wave, since Espeed does not KO after SR damage)
- Zapdos
- Dusknoir
- Azelf
- Aerodactyl
- Gliscor
- non-scarf Heatran
- Magnezone
- Starmie
- Roserade
- Togekiss
- Tyranitar

If it's really obvious any one of them will switch use Pursuit. Also, you can block status from annoying walls like Celebi and Rotom with Taunt if they're not low enough to kill just yet. A Taunt/Ice Shard/Pursuit/Low Kick set is surprisingly effective, as it keeps bulky sweepers from setting up on you and allows Weavile to do its job effectively at the cost of some power. Gengar and Outraging dragons still have no chance in hell of getting away, lol.

If you can't find a slot on your team for Weavile, then w/e, that's fine, but please know what you're talking about before you go on a tirade about how "useless" it is.

oh, and btw stars, if you claim Weavile is a sweeper one more time, I'm afraid I'll have to flay you alive.

I admit this is an impressive list, but weavile cant switch into ANY of them without takeing huge damage (except maybe celebi and dusknior, neither of witch you will be koing, and azelf who is almost always a lead). Therefore weavile is strictly a revenge killer, witch means they have already killed a member on your team. Weavile is a great revenge killer but revenge killers arent good (unless they can switch in on some attacks). Thats why i make it seem like weavile is bad.

 

[Efemera]

A revenge killer that can't switch in on any attacks is only good for:
- taking out something locked into a move like Outrage
- taking out something that is 1hko'd by Pursuit
- forcing something with a lot of boosts out

I love Weavile to death, but for the most part, the only time it gets a kill is when you already sacrificed something else. Weavile will stop a runaway +2 DD Salamence from sweeping your team, but it's not exactly a reliable Pokemon to have.

And can we stop talking about revenge killing? Revenge killing means you've already lost something to Salamence. You realize that if you're packing a revenge killer for Salamence because you can't stop it head on, it is already overcentralizing the metagame. No, I'm not saying this because I think every game should be won 6-0. Rather, I think I should be able to play a game where Salamence isn't allowed to take out a member of my team and severely injure another just by a coin toss. The whole point of OU is that we're banning the most powerful stuff so that we don't have anything that is impossible to deal with, not making excuses for it. This is Pokemon, not chess where Salamence is a goddamn Queen and we have to protect it. If Salamence gets at least one kill per game, then you have no reason not to pack a Salamence on your team, other than personal choice, because simply by adding it to your team, you've improved your odds of winning.

 

[VKCA]

A revenge killer that can't switch in on any attacks is only good for:
- taking out something locked into a move like Outrage
- taking out something that is 1hko'd by Pursuit
- forcing something with a lot of boosts out

I love Weavile to death, but for the most part, the only time it gets a kill is when you already sacrificed something else. Weavile will stop a runaway +2 DD Salamence from sweeping your team, but it's not exactly a reliable Pokemon to have.

Revenge killers are just counters that can't switch in on attacks. If a revenge killer could switch in on an attack, it would be a counter.