Linoone Team (OU version)

[Xing]

So recently I've been playing around with Linoone on Shoddy. The glory of a Linoone sweep feels so great but when Linoone dies I feel like I just want to give up. =( Here's the main OU Linoone team I've been using. I'm sure I didn't perfect it, so advice would be much appreciated.

At a glance:

Lead / Support:

Uxie (Great Wall) @ Light Clay
Leviatate / Impish Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp.Def
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Memento
- Thunder Wave

Thunder wave anything that isn't ground type. Then I either proceed to Reflect and Light Screen for support or switch to something else to counter opposing lead. Usually I switch to Forretress to set up hazards or rapid spin if opposing Pokemon can't harm Forretress. The EVs are meant to make Uxie to survive as many attacks as possible. Max Def allows Uxie to take Pursuit, Paybacks, Explosions, and other threats without receiving fatal injuries, especially with Reflect. Once I weaken opposing team and set up hazards, I use Reflect + Light Screen + Memento to set up my Linoone sweep. The only problem with this choice for a Lead is that sometimes I wish I have a Stealth Rocker / Spiker lead instead, and then use Uxie later either for support or set up for Linoone. I need advice on this.

Hazard / Rapid Spinner:

Forretress (Impeccable Wall) @ Leftovers
Sturdy / Careful Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def / 4 Def
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Payback
- Rapid Spin

This point of this should be obvious. Max Sp.Def allows Forretress to survive some Fire attacks with the help of Light Screen, so it gets an extra turn to Spike/Spin. Payback is used to hit Ghosts that block Spin. But I'm having a hard time deciding whether to keep it or use Gyro Ball instead. I'm also unsure about max Sp.Def; it loses a lot of physical walling power. Toxic Spikes is not used because the Pokemons the usually stop Linoone sweeps are Steel types, which are immune to poison. Rocks + 3 Spikes give Linoone a chance to 1HKO some Scizors and Heatrans.

Sleep Inducer / Annoyer:

Breloom (Hypnotic Wall) @ Toxic Orb
Poison Heal / Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 Speed / 252 Atk / 4 HP
- Spore
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Seed Bomb

Spore is the main reason I'm using this Pokemon. It is a backup plan for a Linoone setup and is a generally powerful support move. If Linoone sweep if my best option, I'd switch to Linoone; otherwise, I'll just Substitute and spam Focus Punch or Seed Bomb if I can. I never liked Leech Seed and I believe it's not good enough to replaced Substitute or Seed Bomb. Stone Edge is enticing but I hate the 80% accuracy and 20 less BP than Seed Bomb.

Spin Blocker / Status Inflictor:

Rotom-H (Ominous Wall) @ Leftovers
Leviatate / Timid Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Speed / 4 Sp.Atk
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball

Rotom mainly functions as a Spin Blocker so the entry hazards can weaken Steel Types that resist my Linoone's attacks. Will-O-Wisp is important as it weakens opposing Pokemon, giving Linoone more opportunity to set up, especially with Reflect. I switch Rotom in to scare away something and use Substitute on the incoming Pokemon. Then I either burn the incoming Pokemon, use one of the attacking moves, or switch depening on which Pokemon is it. Max Speed I feel is absolutely necessary. Many times have I suprised an non-Scarfed opposing Rotom by going first, and I have a better chance to outrun Pokemon and use Will-O-Wisp. I'm not sure about max HP though; I did that to give it a bit bulk to it can survive an attack and either fight back or use WoW. That bulk is especially useful against Heatrans and Machamps, considering those Pokemon are extremely threatening to my team. I don't know if I should invest some EVs into Sp.Atk.

Support / Tank:

Blissey (Ultimate Wall) @ Leftovers
Natural Cure / Bold Nature
EVs: 252 Def / 12 Speed / 244 Sp.Atk
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

Blissey's fatness is too precious to not have. Heal Bell relieves all Pokemon on my team of fatal ailments, and Wish revitalizes them. This combination can potentially completely reinvigorate a Linoone that has already Belly Drummed / statused. Flamethrower: I lol at Scizors that Sword Dance. It happened so many times. Ice Beam: I switch in on a Salamence while it DDance. I Ice Beam while it fails to 1HKO Blissey with Outrage. This also happened so many times. Max Def. is obvious. 12 Speed is to outrun (let this never happen) an opposing Blissey with 8 Speed EVs when I have no other choice but fight it. But I'm starting to think these 12 Speed EVs are not necessary. The rest it put into Sp.Atk to power Flamethrower and Ice Beam. I don't know if I should put some Sp.Atk or the Speed EVs into HP.

Pillar of Hellfire:

Linoone (Hellfire) @ Salac Berry
Gluttony / Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 ATK / 252 Speed / 4 HP
- Belly Drum
- Extremespeed
- Shadow Claw
- Seed Bomb

After the pre-battle tintinnabulation is completed, please stare in pure, unadulterated horror and ominous presentiment at what is unequivocally the Pokemon with the best sweeping muscle in the whole game. Dare not incur Linoone's furry wrath, or else the consequences shall be severe and merciless, and life shall become an evanescent furball.

Linoone possesses a holy trinity of sweeping power: Belly Drum, ExtremeSpeed, and Gluttony. These three elements combine to form the ultimate one-turn setup. After a Belly Drum, Linoone's shabby Attack score of 262 skyrockets to an amazing 1048, ready for immediate sweepage. At the same time, Gluttony activates its Salac Berry, sending its Speed score from 299 (max EVs) to 448, outspeeding Scarfed Timid Rotom, which is at a pitiful 447 speed. Linoone can then proceed to sweep with ExtremeSpeed (or one of the other moves), a STAB, 80 Base Power priority move, ensuring that the flipped-out polecat will almost never be struck before it can hit, and likely KO, its opponent.

Extremespeed is a ridiculous move; it usually KOs a Bulky Gyarados at full health even after Intimidate, and does ~50-60% damage to common steel types. With 448 speed, Extremespeed hits before slower opposing Pokemon use Ice Shard, Bullet Punch, etc. Seed Bomb takes care of Swampert, Empoleon, and the like. Shadow Claw 1HKOs all common Ghosts before they can strike back. Only exception is ScarfGar. Uxie is the main support for Linoone. Opponents will make a hard killing a Belly Drummed Linoone after Reflect/Light Screen + Memento. Forretress sets up Rocks and Spikes, giving Linoone a chance to 1HKO certain Scizors and Heatrans with Extremespeed and certain Metagrosses with Shadow Claw and certain Regirocks with Seed Bomb. Breloom and Rotom-H can also help by putting opposing Pokemon to sleep and weakening their attack by burning them, respectively. Blissey can turn a worn out Linoone into a full-throttle pillar of hellfire again with Heal Bell and Wish.

------------

My main problems are definitely Substitute Heatrans and Substitute Calm Mind Jirachis. I can't seem to figure out how to deal with them. I would like to have my team modified so it's possible to take them down, assuming I don't already have a Belly Drummed Linnone in play.

 

[DevilinDenial]

How do you get rid of Skarmory? Forretress? Scizor? Jirachi(Especially Scarfed)? Gengar?

Because of the Poke you're trying to set up, these things need to go. Magnezone is practically needed on the team, to get rid of these Pokes. Blissey doesn't survive a +1 DD from Salamence unless it does minimum damage, and Scizor does a better job of just getting out. A Substitute Magnezone with HP Fire and Explosion does a good job of getting rid of all of those threats save Gengar and Salamence, who can be Memento'd.

Rotom-H wants Discharge over Thunderbolt, as the high paralysis rate can save you one occasions. I suggest you try Choice Scarf Breloom: You keep the Spore but also get a little surprise for things like Choice Scarf Tyranitar and Metagross, who can :naughty: your up.

I look at the team and still see a need for a fast revenge killer, 90 speed and up. Hopefully another rater can help me with that. The best I can think of is Sleep Powdor Scarf Roserade over Breloom, though.

 

[Xing]

Thanks for the input. I will use Discharge over T-Bolt.

Which Pokemon should I take out for Magnezone? I don't really want to take out Blissey because of Heal Bell and Wish support.

 

[toshimelonhead]

Linoone doesn't even work in NU anymore.

Any steel-type can come in and wall Linoone (the average team has two of those). Heatran alone takes out your whole team sans Blissey and maybe Uxie. Even with Dualscreen Memento, people will switch to Skarm and phaze you out.

I agree with the Magnezone change. Switch with Rotom on this.

Another idea is to make a whole new team and try this out in UU, where this might work. Uxie/Linoone/Chansey/Magneton/ghost/spiker might start as a good core.

I'll post a link that talks about setting up and countering Linoone in NU. OU is even easier to counter it because many more can withstand attacks. NU usage even declined when people learned how to phaze/counter it.

http://z6.invisionfree.com/Project_NU/index.php?showtopic=19

Good luck with the team.

 

[Xing]

If I take out Rotom for Magnezone, Machamp with Lum Berry have a better chance at massacring my team.

If I take out Rotom for Magnezone, I will have to:
- Take out Blissey for something else (so Machamp won't annihilate my team)
- Something else that can use Wish and Aroma/Heal Bell. If there's no other Pokemon that can do both, then I also have to take out Breloom for something else (preferable a Ghost).
- If I do take out Breloom, I will have to make sure I have another physical Pokemon so Blissey won't wall my team, and I need another sleep inducer.

Also, ever since I started using Linoone, I pulled off about ~10 full team sweeps (with the assistance of Rocks + 3 Spikes to hurt steels) against unprepared teams. Would have gotten 2 more had I used Extremespeed instead of Seed Bomb (I thought they were slower).

 

[toshimelonhead]

Also, ever since I started using Linoone, I pulled off about ~10 full team sweeps (with the assistance of Rocks + 3 Spikes to hurt steels) against unprepared teams. Would have gotten 2 more had I used Extremespeed instead of Seed Bomb (I thought they were slower).

This strategy will do really well against lower level CRE people (<1200 or so) but after that people will know what's coming and you won't get away with this as easily.

I wish I could post a synergy chart from Marriland Team Builder. It wasn't as bad as I thought it could have been, but it could be improved a tad.

The first idea that came into my mind was putting Skarmory over Forretress. Skarm is better at setting up this sweep because a Taunt user is invaluable to make sure that your sweep remains intact. Skarm is also more durable under screens as it can roost of the damage from already halved attacks. I'll put the standard set here for reference, but if I find something better I'll post it.

Skarmory@Leftovers/Shed Shell
252 HP / 64 Atk / 176 Def / 16 Spe
-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Roost
-Whirlwind

I don't know how necessary Blissey is. After looking at this team, I see a huge Infernape/fighting weakness. My first thought was to use Tentacruel for spinning now that Forry is gone, but Vaporeon is a better fit. Here is the set I'm thinking of:

Vaporeon@Leftovers
196 HP / 252 Def / 60 Spe
-Surf
-Roar
-Wish
-Heal Bell

A stall team recently destroyed me with this set. This team almost has to feel like semi stall to put all of the right pieces in for Linoone. This will provide a Fire and Fighting resist that Blissey could not handle. Wish and Heal Bell are akin to Aromatherapy/Wish on Blissey (which might be an illegal combination), while Surf is STAB. Roar is critical here because it allows Uxie/Linoone to find a chance to set up. 60 speed EVs let you attack before standard Skarm gets a taunt on you.

Good luck with the team.

 

[Xing]

So which Pokemon will stealth rock for me? Which Pokemon should I take out?

 

[technomancer]

I think linoone is very usable in ou, but your team lacks offense. I know you really love blissey, but she is literally mauled by the physically dominated OU metagame and by the many pursuit users. If you need a cleric that works, cleric dragonite can be effective. You can eq steels as well, running wish, heal bell, eq, draco meteor, so this set functions decently against stall also and can force a few switches. Mean Look Umbreon is a fair supporter for linoone as well, and may allow you to set up more often. I also agree that skarm should be your spiker. CB Tyranitar's pursuit works well to eliminate and heavily damage threats to linoone before the battle begins.

I guess my problem is, when the hell do you get a turn to set up? I mean, almost every poke carries an attack that does more than 50% to linoone. It seems comepletely outclassed by SD Lucario, who can switch out of threats and just rinse and repeat. With Linoone, you only get one chance and then you're done, and your team has no offense after him. Hope this helps, I like the kid, I just don't see him switching in anytime soon.