The 1v1 Metagame

[TheFourthChaser]

I'm under the impression that "British" Gliscor is Stallbreaker Gliscor. It's a bit confusing to me, since Smogon's analysis page isn't hip to the lingo. Obviously, neither am I. But this Crobat is quite similar to Stallbreaker Gliscor, featuring a fast Taunt, bulky defenses, Roost, and one attack move. I've simply exchanged Toxic for Confuse Ray, considering the circumstances. I chose the name as less because it fit perfectly, and more because I needed a name.

Haha, I never really thought of Britscor as an inside joke but in a way I suppose it is, it's not British because it's a stallbreaker.

Yanmega could really kill in this metagame b/c no rocks.

Actually today a 1v1 #stark cup was held and I faced a Yanmega, I'm not sure of the entire set but it was a good pokemon. I'll have to try out Yanmega on my own later.

Banning sash means banning Level 1 Endeavor. They lose to priority, passive damage (like hail), and ghosts anyway. Cleffa maybe, if it had priority of some sort (which sadly it doesn't), but even then its Endeavor cannot touch ghosts.

I don't think many people would want to run Level 1 Endeavor Pokemon anyway, with all the priority running around it seems like to much of a risk to try especially when any Ghost type Pokemon walls you completely.

Tried out a Yanmega today in a bo3 cup but forgot to switch my item for the next game lol, I think the set can work very well though it was,

Yanmega@Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
Nature: Timid
Evs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
-Protect
-Air Slash
-Bug Buzz
-Hidden Power Ground

Protect is here so you can avoid fake out damage or gain some speed turn 1 for Scarf pokemon and Hidden Power Ground is to hit mons like Heatran. The other 2 moves are just there for Dual STAB.

 

[Zystral]

Pokemon: Togekiss
Set name: Sitting Duck
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Sweet Kiss
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Sky Attack / Air Slash
item: Leftovers
ability: serene grace
nature: adamant / modest
evs: 128 HP / 252 Atk or SpA / 128 Spe

This is the best set ever.
Thunder Wave the first turn, and you should be faster than everything. Sweet Kiss them, ParaFusion, set up a Sub and start Sky Attacking. Sky Attack is great for flinching power, although Air Slash can be used for more reliability. Of course, dedicated tanks wall you but hey.

 

[Ice-eyes]

I would suggest Lum Berry on that Togekiss, allowing you to T-Wave Sleepers and then Sub on the now slower sleep move.

Definitely use Air Slash though.

Yanmega looks cool but it doesn't really match up that well against Jirachi or Swampert.

I'd like to try Machamp, but it has a horrible matchup against Togekiss and a pretty poor one vs. Jirachi.

How about:
Heatran @ Lum Berry / Shuca Berry / Focus Sash
Flash Fire
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Fire Blast
Earth Power
Hidden Power Grass
Taunt / Dragon Pulse

There might be better EVs for that, though.

 

[TPM]

Do you guys play this on Pokemon Online?

 

[Rolf]

Pokemon: Blissey
Set name: Counter Wall
move 1: Counter
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Softboiled
move 4: Protect / Safeguard
item: Leftovers / Lum Berry / Focus Sash?
ability: Serene Grace
nature: Bold / Calm
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA or 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 SpA (with focus sash)

Although I'm 1-2 with this set (Zy's Togekiss with freaking parafusionflinch hax and Sky Attack) it still should theoretically work most of the time bar like Breloom or something who sucks otherwise. Premise is pretty simple: Counter on physical moves, stall special ones and get a 20% freeze chance with Ice Beam.

 

[Stagnant]

^

Chople Berry on Chansey makes alot more sense.

 

[wavedash]

Shedinja @ Focus Sash | Wonder Guard
Anything / Anything
Anything

Counters a whole crapload of Pokémon.

 

[TPM]

Do you guys play this on Pokemon Online?

Do I get an answer?

 

[Ferrouswheel]

Do I get an answer?

I believe most of us are playing in Ditto's tournament or on #stark cups or just theorymoning. Does PO even have a 1v1 tier?

 

[TPM]

I believe most of us are playing in Ditto's tournament or on #stark cups or just theorymoning. Does PO even have a 1v1 tier?

No but PO lets you put less then 6 pokemon on your team.

 

[Ditto]

Several of us are now practicing with sets on Pokemon Online. We are using [1v1] in front of our names to make it easy. I am sure some of us won't mind people watching if you are curious. However please respect if a player wants you to leave.

Also, discussions are going on in #1v1 on IRC.

From our testing today, it seems that Deoxys-D is too powerful for 1v1, however Deoxys-S still needs more testing because it can be taken out by more offensive pokes.

 

[SunshineCat]

This looks interesting :D

I'll make a team...Pokemon and try it out sometime~

 

[cim]

Several of us are now practicing with sets on Pokemon Online. We are using [1v1] in front of our names to make it easy. I am sure some of us won't mind people watching if you are curious. However please respect if a player wants you to leave.

Also, discussions are going on in #1v1 on IRC.

From our testing today, it seems that Deoxys-D is too powerful for 1v1, however Deoxys-S still needs more testing because it can be taken out by more offensive pokes.

You can honestly go down the entire list of Pokemon in the Uber tier and "test" them all. I honestly find it hard to believe DxD is too powerful in a metagame that will definitely have tons of pokemon with very few valid responses.

 

[neato]

protect + hariyama + toxic orb + guts + coverage moves. nothing ohkos hariyama, immune to status. ohko back. slaking's giga impact does nothing. you can add priority via mach punch and sucker punch to deal with flinchers. sucker punch is 2 hko on jirachi

 

[Morm]

You can honestly go down the entire list of Pokemon in the Uber tier and "test" them all. I honestly find it hard to believe DxD is too powerful in a metagame that will definitely have tons of pokemon with very few valid responses.

agility/cosmic power/rest or recover/move that can do damage or toxic

That alone is pretty annoying I'd say, but bet you can find a way to make it more broken can't you CIM? You're better at that stuff than I am.

Yawn/protect is probably as broken as spore would be, unless your opponent was specifically ready for it, meaning that you'd probably need a lum or chesto berry.

Really, this metagame seems to be the definition of "terrible" to me. It simply lacks flexibility or most prediction since switching is right out the door. For example, a great idea can be demolished by your opponent happening to have an advantage from the start and you 'd have ZERO ability to strategically do much about it...and critical hits are something that could LITERALLY decide a match.

I hope people are having fun with it, but as far as I can see, this is totally crap. Why not just do Salamence with flamethrower/earthquake/outrage/draco meteor move with an ev spread for offense and a choice scarf? In this game, an ability like intimidate could reasonably automatically assure victory and having a little move coverage sampler pack like Salamence running around to begin with makes things horrible. Hell, it's brutal enough in 6v6! Even Curselax would just be a beast with some rest action going on.

I think this is more luck than it is skill which is precisely why evasion clause exists in the first place. I don't mean to rain on anyones parade and feel free to verbally molest me for my online denouncing of this game.

Edit: I think that 3v3 holds far more promise than this. Sorry fanboys of 1v1!

 

[SunshineCat]

After reading the above post(hopefully I'm not ninja'd), I have come to think 1v1 isn't as strategic as I first thought. The matchups matter(A LOT), some Pokemon will thrive off hax, there isn't much choice/diversity...hmm. But this 3v3 sounds interesting? Any discussion ever of that? Any testing or anything?

 

[Hobbers]

I think this is perfectly testable on Shoddy too.. With some little rules...

Rules

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- Each team consists of 6 pokémon: 5 battlers, 1 Lvl.1 Magikarps with only Splash. (Or something else crappy)
- Best of 3 wins, you are allowed to bring 5 pokemons, just for tactics.
- After a pokémon is killed, both players switch into their Magikarps and make a simultanious switch. If a Wish is in effect, both players must use Splash, so the wish failes.

Clauses

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- No Weather Inducing pokemon, as they have effect on the rest of the battle (Hippopotas, Hippowdon, Kyogre, Groudon, Snover, Abomasnow (Or as Hegna says: Multiple Battles...)
- No moves that have influence on your/opponents team (SR, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Weather Moves, Gravity, Roar, Whirlwind, Trick Room, *There are probably some more, add if neccesary*)
- Other Clauses: See OP

Things to consider

Hide

- Banning Focus Sash
- Banning Choice Items. These will be massively used, could be considered. However, Choice Items can be countered by, as above, mail, useless items, Torment...

What do you guys think of this?

 

[Hegna]

It would be better to just run multiple battles.
You shouldn't ban weather and weather inducing pokemon just for convenience, since it wouldn't carry over in real 1 V 1, and you could just start a second battle.

 

[Hobbers]

Multiple Battles is perfectly possible. It allows Weather Pokémon. Going to download Pokemon Online this evening on my good pc, to try out some 1v1.

For pokemon sets: Some strong sweepers might be interested in some HP Ev's, to make them a bit bulkier. Ex: LO Scizor with SD + 3 Moves would love some HP ev's so he can set up safer.

 

[Skymin_Flower]

It would be easier to just make the 5 remaining pokemon Shedinja with Sticky Barb ;)

 

[Acritter]

I'm thinking a CurseTar variant would be pretty good for this meta. Thanks to Sandstorm, it already has excellent SpD, and if it can pull off a few Curses, it can tank any attack in the game. Problem is, it instantly dies if the opponent has Fighting- or Steel-type moves.

Also, how would a Torment Infernape work out?

Infernape@Focus Sash
Jolly/Adamant
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Fake Out/Taunt
Torment
Protect
Close Combat

Fake Out to break Sashes, Torment/Protect to screw Choice users, and Close Combat because it's the best attack Infernape has, except maybe Blast Burn if you want to risk it. This set auto-wins against any Choice users, any weaker Sash users, anything that can be OHKO'd by Close Combat, but loses hard to Gliscor and pretty much any other physical wall, as well as anything that can tank a Fake Out and two Close Combats. Shedinja obviously wins.

EDIT: this set can also run Taunt in the place of Fake Out to deal with any Yawners.

 

[PI-Dimension]

I don't understand why you would ban Focus Sash

Awesome set:

Kingdra @ Focus Sash
252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Yawn
- Protect

Yawn -> Protect -> DD -> DD -> OUTRAGE

 

[Ice-eyes]

I'm not sure about Sash. I actually don't think Sash is broken - it makes Fake Out users viable and holds fast attackers in check, but SereneFlinch strategies are going to mess it up badly and Sleepers don't really care about it either.

 

[Wildfire]

Let me get this straight, for the metagame your only allowed one pokemon?
If that's so, then that one pokemon would have to be able to counter every pokemon there is allowed in the metagame. Is'nt that impossible to have the ultimate counter to most pokemon? For the set above, what happens if there was a steel pokemon that was your oppoenet?
I would see that most pokemon would be mixed attackers to handle special and physical walls. Pokemon would also have to be mix walls. You would have to be able to wall infernape and other physcial attackers and special attackers while being able to have an acceptable attack and speed.
Some pokemon taht are so versitle like infernape fall to togekiss. Most dragons would fall to weavile, and other pokemon that are able to use ice beam.
While weavile and those pokemon would be frail and in most causes not win many battles without focus sash. You can't counter every pokemon there is.
Even a novice with a weavile using ice punch could beat a salemace. All the person would have to do is make the weavile adamant and give it a choice scarf to outspeed the salamence with a choice scarf and it would be over. Salamence would have to have a lot of evs in hp and defense with a yache berry to survive.
To me there is not much future in this. The concept is interesting though.

 

[magickzzl]

I have played this metagame just for fun with friend! I never even thought of it as competitive!

Whats nice is the speed of the battles, and also, the total stratagy shift! much like doubles it gets you out of the OU mindset and into a new, exciting part of your brain. Also as mentioned the variety of pokemon changes! I have had much luck with Special Starmie (tbolt/ice beam/surf/psychic) blasting through and mixed hypno (hypnosis(cause its just fun play, as i said i havnt played comp)/psychic/fire punch/reflect or light screen) even against pokemon that out class them!

Basicly thanks for this thread! this is a whole new level of fun!!