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NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)
- Thread starter twash
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Hey, Hey guys, I'm not hyping Regigigas as the end all be all.
@ Wavedash: I don't really think Regigigas should run anything other than that set. It's just bad otherwise.
@Leman: DDZard and Regigigas incomparable (also I think setting up 2 DD's requires screen support). They both do different things. Also Regigigas can beat many of those pokemon. I mean your standard ground type (sandslash) isn't really beating you because EQ only manages (19.8% - 23.6%) so if they switch into your Sub, you get 2 shots at them as opposed to one. The taunters / fighters hate switching into Regigigas because of Sub + Thunder Wave. They always have to come in on a revenge kill. The only thing you listed that can reliably switch in are Encorers, (since a Regigigas usually subs on first) and even THEN that only works once.
Also, Regigigas is never running speed so not outspeeding +base 100 isn't that big of a deal.
@Ice-Eyes: True. Regigigas isn't your straight up wall though. It can wall and pose as an offensive threat.
@Adam Lambert: Actually, Smeargle gets STAB explosion too. Lickily however is incredibly unique. It's explosion is EXTREMELY powerful. 2+ Explosion from Lickilkily OHKO's EVERYTHING in the entire game. (save ghosts)
@ Wavedash: I don't really think Regigigas should run anything other than that set. It's just bad otherwise.
@Leman: DDZard and Regigigas incomparable (also I think setting up 2 DD's requires screen support). They both do different things. Also Regigigas can beat many of those pokemon. I mean your standard ground type (sandslash) isn't really beating you because EQ only manages (19.8% - 23.6%) so if they switch into your Sub, you get 2 shots at them as opposed to one. The taunters / fighters hate switching into Regigigas because of Sub + Thunder Wave. They always have to come in on a revenge kill. The only thing you listed that can reliably switch in are Encorers, (since a Regigigas usually subs on first) and even THEN that only works once.
Also, Regigigas is never running speed so not outspeeding +base 100 isn't that big of a deal.
@Ice-Eyes: True. Regigigas isn't your straight up wall though. It can wall and pose as an offensive threat.
@Adam Lambert: Actually, Smeargle gets STAB explosion too. Lickily however is incredibly unique. It's explosion is EXTREMELY powerful. 2+ Explosion from Lickilkily OHKO's EVERYTHING in the entire game. (save ghosts)
Everything? Impish Regirock even?
+2 Explosion from lickylicky with LO- 103% - 121.4% to impish regirock with 252 hp and 252 def....
Only for it's moves Baton Pass, Agility, Nasty Plot, Taunt. Though I admit it probably wouldn't be anyone's first choice :P.
Sorry, I didn't realize that weather was somewhat of a taboo here D:. NU IS different from UU... but I won't bring it up again if it will disrupt the thread too much, though honestly I didn't mean to say that we should outright start suspects or ban anything. I was more trying to point out that weather teams were pretty dominant in a way, in NU. I wanted to see if anyone had any good answers/counters for pure weather teams, such as +Speed Scarf Primeape (ugh hate him :O) whom can out speed and kill a good amount of Sunny Day/Rain Dance pokemon even when the weather is active. Stuff like that.
I've actually used this set to much success before though I tend to like Headbutt over Return mostly for the 30% flinch rate and your usually not doing that much damage in the first 5 turns anyway. Iron Head could also be a good choice as it has the same 30% flinch rate with the added bonus of hitting ghost-types, though there is a noticeable drop in power and grounds could possibly take advantage of you as they have a good enough chance to bypass confusion enough times.
I agree that Lickilicky is probably a better outright wall, however, Regigigas can survive a powerful hit such as both Close Combat or Weather boosted Eruption/Hydro Pump with the same ev spread a little better, while, having the chance of parafusingflinch haxing them until you get enough hp back for a sub and possibly wreck havoc on another pokemon (though if you don't you still crippled / killed the previous pokemon). While Lickilicky likely only has enough juice to take down one of those powerful Pokemon via explosion or SE attack before being easily revenged by another Pokemon because of Lickilicky's pitiful speed stat. Regigigas is a lot more successful at being a hax king / Supporter, somewhat, in the tribute of Iron Head Jirachi or Flinch Hax Togekiss, and it isn't as unlikely to get through Slow Start's handicap as people might think.
Regigigas
I've used Regigigas extensively, so I feel compelled to comment. Although my experience with it is all in UU, I think it will be useful since I bet most of the people writing it off here have never used it and have never faced someone who knew how to use it.
First, I think it needs to have Earthquake - it can't power through Rock- or Steel-types with Normal attacks the way Miltank can, since it lacks Curse and recovery to tank the hits with. Thunder Wave / Substitute / Return / Earthquake is usually what I go with. While Confuse Ray / T-wave / Sub may give you a lot of chances to set up, I'm not so sure it's ultimately worth it if you're just mono-attacking Normal. If you consider that your opponent will be using their best counter (duh), you have a higher probability of netting a free sub with just parahax than you do of coming out unscathed (most likely burned or hit with a Fighting attack) with parafusion hax.
The second thing, and this is very important, is that it needs to be on the right kind of team. Regigigas actually fits in very well with very bulky teams (or BO supported by Dual Screens), especially if it's not the only one spreading Paralysis. In such a context, not only can Regigigas set up on pokemon that his teammates have paralyzed, but it can spread paralysis to help it's team as well. This is especially true because the opponent is unlikely to send in an already statused pokemon to deal with Regigigas. When you add this status spreading utility to it's immense bulk, what you have is actually a team player that can aid the goals of its team by spreading paralysis and stopping sweepers, which can actually sweep if the opportunity arises.
It certainly has it's shortcomings, and it will definitely suck if you just throw it onto a team. However, don't be so quick to write it off - I've used it on a couple of teams that have gotten onto the UU leaderboard and scored victories against well respected UU players. I've never used it in NU before, but I imagine since it could do well there, too, granted it has the right kind of teammates to choose from.
@Al Alchemist
I think I would much rather use any of the pokemon that learn Agility / Taunt / Baton Pass or Nasty Plot / Taunt / Baton Pass than try to run anything with a set of Nasty Plot / Agility / Taunt / Baton Pass, much less Aipom. Aipom is just never living long enough to get two boosts and pass. Barely anything can do that, really. If you limit to one boosting move, you have awesome choices like Gligar, Floatzel, and Hypno, who can boost, taunt, and pass much more reliably than something as ridiculously frail as Aipom. Hypno particularly has a lot of untapped potential as a Nasty Plot passer, as it is quite bulky, and can take hits before passing so your sweeper gets in unscathed.
@PK Gaming
252 Atk Adamant Lickilicky +2 Explosion vs. 0 Hp 0 Def Aggron: 70.8% - 83.6%
: P
I've used Regigigas extensively, so I feel compelled to comment. Although my experience with it is all in UU, I think it will be useful since I bet most of the people writing it off here have never used it and have never faced someone who knew how to use it.
First, I think it needs to have Earthquake - it can't power through Rock- or Steel-types with Normal attacks the way Miltank can, since it lacks Curse and recovery to tank the hits with. Thunder Wave / Substitute / Return / Earthquake is usually what I go with. While Confuse Ray / T-wave / Sub may give you a lot of chances to set up, I'm not so sure it's ultimately worth it if you're just mono-attacking Normal. If you consider that your opponent will be using their best counter (duh), you have a higher probability of netting a free sub with just parahax than you do of coming out unscathed (most likely burned or hit with a Fighting attack) with parafusion hax.
The second thing, and this is very important, is that it needs to be on the right kind of team. Regigigas actually fits in very well with very bulky teams (or BO supported by Dual Screens), especially if it's not the only one spreading Paralysis. In such a context, not only can Regigigas set up on pokemon that his teammates have paralyzed, but it can spread paralysis to help it's team as well. This is especially true because the opponent is unlikely to send in an already statused pokemon to deal with Regigigas. When you add this status spreading utility to it's immense bulk, what you have is actually a team player that can aid the goals of its team by spreading paralysis and stopping sweepers, which can actually sweep if the opportunity arises.
It certainly has it's shortcomings, and it will definitely suck if you just throw it onto a team. However, don't be so quick to write it off - I've used it on a couple of teams that have gotten onto the UU leaderboard and scored victories against well respected UU players. I've never used it in NU before, but I imagine since it could do well there, too, granted it has the right kind of teammates to choose from.
@Al Alchemist
I think I would much rather use any of the pokemon that learn Agility / Taunt / Baton Pass or Nasty Plot / Taunt / Baton Pass than try to run anything with a set of Nasty Plot / Agility / Taunt / Baton Pass, much less Aipom. Aipom is just never living long enough to get two boosts and pass. Barely anything can do that, really. If you limit to one boosting move, you have awesome choices like Gligar, Floatzel, and Hypno, who can boost, taunt, and pass much more reliably than something as ridiculously frail as Aipom. Hypno particularly has a lot of untapped potential as a Nasty Plot passer, as it is quite bulky, and can take hits before passing so your sweeper gets in unscathed.
@PK Gaming
252 Atk Adamant Lickilicky +2 Explosion vs. 0 Hp 0 Def Aggron: 70.8% - 83.6%
: P
Normally in NU, the most effective Regi set is Confuse Ray T Wave Sub Return for the simple reason that it needs no other attacks. The number of Rock/Steel/Ghost types in the tier are so minimal, that simply having 2 of the most used Pokemon in the tier, Skuntank and Primeape, will solve almost all problems. T Wave and Confuse Ray is so ridiculous taht it isn't even funny and more often than not, you can hax your way through supposed counters.
It sounds ridiculous but it's true. Post SS Regigigas is dealing like 40-50% Magneton with Return alone, and has the bulk to take a hit or too. Not to mention that Parafusion gives your opponent exactly 37.5% chance of moving, it's easy to waste turns. I would only run EQ in the UU metagame where steels and rocks are more common.
Again, Regigigas isn't the END ALL BE ALL. But he's a good pokemon that won't put you down.
NO!
Bah. I'd love to see it TRY to get past a Bastiodon.
Sorry to get off topic here, but remember when everyone was talking about wether magmortar should carry earthquake/cross chop in the last slot? Well, both seemed really filler, and were carried really just for one poke each since magmortar already gets awesome coverage with three moves. What about mach punch or protect? Mach punch, while unSTABed and off of a low attack stat, could revenge things like weakened scarfton, murkrow, primeape after a close combat defense drop, etc. Protect could be used to scout scarfers that try to revenge him. Due to lack of other people on the ladder, there hasn't been much testing, but does anyone think it could work?
Focus Blast works, while it provides little coverage, it CAN hit things. Also HP Dark for Grumpig if you are really daring.
That is just bullshit. As Earthquake kills it.
Anyway I'd rather use Lickilicky as a wall. Instant attacking power and a healing move makes Regigigas a worse option imo. Not to mention Body Slam has a decent chance to para too.
Well this really isn't a threat list more just a list of all NU pokes and (in my opinion) viable enough NFE:
Ampharos
Arbok
Ariados
Armaldo
Articuno
Banette
Bastiodon
Beautifly
Beedrill
Bellossom
Bibarel
Butterfree
Cacturne
Camerupt
Carnivine
Castform
Charizard
Chatot
Cherrim
Chimecho
Clamperl
Corsola
Cradily
Crawdaunt
Delcatty
Delibird
Dewgong
Ditto
Dodrio
Drifblim
Dunsprace
Dustox
Electrode
Entei
Espeon
Exeggutor
Exploud
Farfetch'd
Fearow
Flareon
Floatzel
Furret
Gardevoir
Gastrodon
Girafarig
Glaceon
Glalie
Golduck
Golem
Gorebyss
Granbull
Grumpig
Hitmonchan
Huntail
Hypno
Illumise
Jumpluff
Jynx
Kangaskhan
Kecleon
Kingler
Kricketune
Lapras
Ledian
Lickilicky
Linoone
Lopunny
Lumineon
Lunatone
Luvdisc
Luxray
Magcargo
Magmortar
Magneton
Manectric
Mantine
Marowak
Masquerain
Mawile
Medicham
Meganium
Mightyena
Minun
Mothim
Mr. Mime
Muk
Nidoqueen
Ninetales
Noctowl
Octillery
Pachirisu
Parasect
Pelipper
Persian
Phione
Pidgeot
Pikachu
Pinsir
Plusle
Politoed
Porygon2
Primeape
Probopass
Purugly
Quagsire
Qwilfish
Raichu
Rampardos
Rapidash
Raticate
Regice
Regigigas
Relicanth
Sableye
Sandslash
Seaking
Seviper
Sharpedo
Shedinja
Shiftry
Shuckle
Skuntank
Slaking
Solrock
Spinda
Stantler
Sudowoodo
Sunflora
Swalot
Tauros
Torkoal
Tranpinch
Tropius
Typholosion
Unown
Ursaring
Venomoth
Vespiqueen
Victreebel
Vigoroth
Vileplume
Volbeat
Wailord
Walrein
Whiscash
Wigglytuff
Wormadam
Wormadam-G
Wormadam-S
Xatu
Zangoose
---
Bronzor
Dragonair
Dusclops
Electabuzz
Gabite
Gligar
Golbat
Grovyle
Haunter
Hippopotas
Kadabra
Lairon
Machoke
Metang
Misdreavus
Monferno
Munchlax
Murkrow
Piloswine
Rhydon
Roselia
Seadra
Shelgon
Sneasel
Snover
Tangela
Togetic
Vibrava
Yanma
Arbok
Ariados
Armaldo
Articuno
Banette
Bastiodon
Beautifly
Beedrill
Bellossom
Bibarel
Butterfree
Cacturne
Camerupt
Carnivine
Castform
Charizard
Chatot
Cherrim
Chimecho
Clamperl
Corsola
Cradily
Crawdaunt
Delcatty
Delibird
Dewgong
Ditto
Dodrio
Drifblim
Dunsprace
Dustox
Electrode
Entei
Espeon
Exeggutor
Exploud
Farfetch'd
Fearow
Flareon
Floatzel
Furret
Gardevoir
Gastrodon
Girafarig
Glaceon
Glalie
Golduck
Golem
Gorebyss
Granbull
Grumpig
Hitmonchan
Huntail
Hypno
Illumise
Jumpluff
Jynx
Kangaskhan
Kecleon
Kingler
Kricketune
Lapras
Ledian
Lickilicky
Linoone
Lopunny
Lumineon
Lunatone
Luvdisc
Luxray
Magcargo
Magmortar
Magneton
Manectric
Mantine
Marowak
Masquerain
Mawile
Medicham
Meganium
Mightyena
Minun
Mothim
Mr. Mime
Muk
Nidoqueen
Ninetales
Noctowl
Octillery
Pachirisu
Parasect
Pelipper
Persian
Phione
Pidgeot
Pikachu
Pinsir
Plusle
Politoed
Porygon2
Primeape
Probopass
Purugly
Quagsire
Qwilfish
Raichu
Rampardos
Rapidash
Raticate
Regice
Regigigas
Relicanth
Sableye
Sandslash
Seaking
Seviper
Sharpedo
Shedinja
Shiftry
Shuckle
Skuntank
Slaking
Solrock
Spinda
Stantler
Sudowoodo
Sunflora
Swalot
Tauros
Torkoal
Tranpinch
Tropius
Typholosion
Unown
Ursaring
Venomoth
Vespiqueen
Victreebel
Vigoroth
Vileplume
Volbeat
Wailord
Walrein
Whiscash
Wigglytuff
Wormadam
Wormadam-G
Wormadam-S
Xatu
Zangoose
---
Bronzor
Dragonair
Dusclops
Electabuzz
Gabite
Gligar
Golbat
Grovyle
Haunter
Hippopotas
Kadabra
Lairon
Machoke
Metang
Misdreavus
Monferno
Munchlax
Murkrow
Piloswine
Rhydon
Roselia
Seadra
Shelgon
Sneasel
Snover
Tangela
Togetic
Vibrava
Yanma
There really isn't a list of NU + NFE NU pokemon you can just highlight and (ctrl + c) copy, since the Smogon list has all of that extra stuff on it that you would have to erase first. So useful for NU RMT's I suppose, just needs a bit of organizing maybe ;). Possibly take out some non viable NU pokemon such as Unown or Ditto, or combine pokemon that pretty much are exactly the same like Plusle and Minun.
With a life orb it's 92.2% - 108.5% :P. Not quite perfect, but...
Yeah...not quite perfect...since Aggron could add def/HP EVs if Lickilicky can add a lO lol :)
Lickylicky with SD Explosion and earthquake 1HKOs everything in the game. Leave it at that. But I'd rather use a lickylicky along the lines of
Return
Wish
Coverage Move
Explosion
General wall lickylicky, but I like explosion for when his job is done or to take down a troublesome poke. Besides, every time you use a lickylicky without explosion, a puppy is eaten by a bear. (I don't like kittens or the Hudson river k?)
Return
Wish
Coverage Move
Explosion
General wall lickylicky, but I like explosion for when his job is done or to take down a troublesome poke. Besides, every time you use a lickylicky without explosion, a puppy is eaten by a bear. (I don't like kittens or the Hudson river k?)
It does, but as I said i prefer explosion over mimmicking 2 turn recovery and giving others free setup on predictable protects. Unless you meant over the coverage move, which is needed for all the damn haunter I keep seeing.
To fit in Protect when you need Wish, STAB, and Power Whip or something, you have to give up Explosion. Which is really a main attraction for Licky. Poor guy has a bad case of movepool syndrome. If his Attack stat was just a little higher and he was a little bulkier he could be a threat in OU.
What's the consensus on Golduck? I used him well in OU so I'm sure he can tear shit up in NU
Consensus? He's an awesome Pokemon, pretty damn bulky, and yes it can tear up shit in NU. It usually always takes out at least one Rain Dance / Sunny Day Sweeper, but isn't just for that purpose. Encore can be pretty damn annoying. Calm Mind is sort of meh in my experience, but yeah. His speed is very decent for NU as well.
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