Running Amok [NU/Ubers RMT]

[Barbarossa]

Or, as I like to call it, running a MUK in Ubers. That's right, the squishy pile of goo has migrated to Ubers, and it's taking its NU buddies with it. I've never made an NU or an Ubers team before this, but I've had a surprising amount of success with this NU team in Ubers. I may not win all of my matches, but I get DANG close in the ones I don't. I'm not sure what it is, but this team is magic. Please don't just say "Use a higher tier, moron", because that's not the point. The point is to make a comeback and put a serious beatdown on the Legendaries and the top of the stack.

Speaking of which, here it is!

To be more in depth, we shall look at them carefully.

Wailord

Wally the Wailord
Item - Choice Scarf
Ability - Water Veil
Nature - Naive

EVs: 28 Atk, 228 Spe, 252 SpA

Moves
Water Spout
Hydro Pump
Selfdestruct
Hidden Power (Grass)
​

Wally has been a great aid to me in my battles thus far. Against many leads (Groudon, Deoxys-S, etc), a scarfed Water Spout will do the trick to either force a switch or kill something. Hidden Power Grass is a move that hasn't seen much use, but helps against the occasional Swampert. Hydro Pump is for a STAB move when he switches in later to deal more damage, and Self Destruct is a last resort, and is helpful in taking down Swords Dancers and the like. (Anything that doesn't boost Defense, really.)

Bastiodon

Bastiodon
Item - Focus Sash
Ability - Sturdy
Nature - Relaxed

EVs: 252 HP, 4 Def, 252 SpD

Moves
Metal Burst
Rest
Sleep Talk
Curse
​

Bastiodon has replaced Tauros, and for good reason. Ubers is not kind to Tauros, what with all the special attackers unhindered by his Intimidate. This Bastiodon is one of my own creation, born of much testing. Its Focus Sash is great for countering fighting and ground moves via Metal Burst, and has beaten leftovers for the item spot. Oddly enough, people like leaving a weakened Bastiodon alive in order to set up on it, and that's where Rest comes into play. Often, I can heal back from 1 health, and get a few Curses in, and proceed to wall with repeated RestTalking. In a new development, I think that I have my calm mind counter. Bastiodon rests up to full health, and then uses metal burst repeatedly until they attack me. With the focus sash, the foe is sure to be OHKO'd. I've slain a calm mind Kyogre and Latias with this set.

Regigigas

Regigigas
Item - Leftovers
Ability - Slow Star
Nature - Adamant

EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SpD

Moves
Confuse Ray
Thunder Wave
Return
Fire Punch
​

Regigigas is what I call my 'Win Condition'. Usually he is thrown out at the end, after most of my opponents have been beaten down. He then uses Parafusion to hopefully stall out Slow Start. Once he does, it is usually game over for the other team. Return is for a powerful STAB attack, and Fire Punch is for taking out any steel types that think they can stop the madness.

Quagsire

Quagsire
Item - Leftovers
Ability - Water Absorb
Nature - Impish

EVs: 252 HP, 4 Atk, 252 Def

Moves
Earthquake
Ice Punch
Recover
Yawn
​

Quagsire has replaced Entei, as suggested by Mysterious Man. Quagsire has become one of the central members of my team, able to Ice Punch through the many dragons and flying pokemon at will. Yawn forces numerous switches, so now I just need a way to get some entry hazards out to make the enemy sleep more often. Recover makes Quagsire very hard to take down, and he easily switches into Kyogre, resisting the Thunders that always aim for Wailord and Relicanth.

Muk

Muk
Item - Black Sludge
Ability - Sticky Hold
Nature - Brave

EVs: 252 HP, 68 Atk, 188 SpD

Moves
Poison Jab
Fire Punch
Ice Punch
Giga Drain
​

Muk replaced Xatu when I decided to move to Ubers instead of futilely trying to find NU games. I miss the status absorption sometimes, but Muk makes up for it by being my only Pokemon that can completely wall enemy walls (Such as Deoxys-D). Trick and Knock Off fail miserably at trying to take out his recovery. Poison Jab is for STAB and hopefully poisoning walls. Fire Punch is for steel types that want to switch in on Poison Jab. Ice punch is for the numerous flying and dragon types in Ubers, and Giga Drain is for Kyogre (Although a better option would be nice, Giga Drain hasn't been doing much.)

Relicanth

Relicanth
Item - Choice Band
Ability - Swift Swim
Nature - Adamant

EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe

Moves
Head Smash
Double Edge
Earthquake
Waterfall
​

Relicanth is definitely my MVP. STAB choice band Head Smash makes for a nice wallbreaker. Not only that, it hits the large amount of flying types in the tier for super effective damage. Double edge is just for getting neutral damage on more things. (Grass, especially, but you don't see many.) Earthquake kills many fire types, and Waterfall is my secondary STAB move, for killing Groudon. Relicanth usually functions as a revenge killer, and I've found that Wally's Selfdestruct combined with Relicanth's Head Smash can kill Kyogre pretty easily. Relicanth now has Swift Swim, as suggested by ARandomBoy. Kyogre is now more of an opponent's weakness than a counter to my entire team. With Quagsire walling it and Relicanth getting incredibly fast from it, I could afford to get Choice Band, making my attacks that much more powerful. Unfortunately, Relicanth can't survive more than a few attacks, due to the massive recoil incurred.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
*Kyogre has been mostly countered. Moving on.

Darkrai is now the main threat to this team. The only Pokemon that has a chance against it is Bastiodon, due to its RestTalking set. Unfortunately, Bastiodon has no instant recovery, and the residual damage from sleeping while Darkrai is in wears him down.

Please keep it NU though, I'm trying to see if an NU counter to the Uber metagame is possible.
​

 

[HouseFantastic]

I'm trying to think of a way to counter a kyogre with an NU pokemon, and it's tough. So far, I've thought that you need a pokemon with a large enough movepool to include something that hurts Kyogre, as well as being a type that can defend against Kyogre's water spout and/or his thunder.

Check out the UberSect set of Parasect. Kyogre's ice beam will probably be able to take it down, as far as I can see, but it's the closest thing I've got for you. If you want to let go of your inhibiting NU-only clause (I mean, come on, 5 NU pokemon would be impressive enough), you could also try out Ludicolo, whose swift swim and grass typing would be an excellent way to scare Kyogre off.

Interesting team, though! I should play more ubers so that I hopefully run into it!

 

[Wind2008]

This team is just silly.

But to be even semi-viable you NEED a Quagsire(Kyogre beats you,period.)

Regardless Lati@s can beat this whole team and being limited to NU's you can't do anything to fix that.

Cool idea,but it will never work.

 

[Mysterious Man]

To be honest, I don't play Ubers at all, but it's nice to see other people using lower tiered poke's higher up.

Have you considered using a Licklicky? I don't really see the point of using Wailord when it's almost completely outclassed by Kyogre. It barely 2HKO's Groudon in the sun (according to my damage calculator..). I was thinking something like this:

Lickilicky @Choice Band
Own Tempo / Adamant Natured
252 HP / 212 ATK / 58 DEF (There may be a better spread for this)
Power Whip
Ice Punch
Explosion
-Filler- (Return, Knock Off, Toxic?, etc)

Power Whip 2HKO's Groudon if it doesn't miss, while Ice Punch 2HKO's Lati@s. However, they are both able to 2HKO you as well. If you don't want to take the chance of them attacking you, Explosion is there for you. It's so overwhelming that it's even able to OHKO Dialga.

And for Giga Drain on Muk, try Curse or maybe even Torment for Choice'd Pokes?

EDIT: I'm not sure how stall fends in Ubers, but if you're having trouble with Kyogre, try a Gastrodon-like set with Quagsire using Stockpile/Recover/Toxic/Earthquake over Entei.

 

[Barbarossa]

I'm trying to think of a way to counter a kyogre with an NU pokemon, and it's tough. So far, I've thought that you need a pokemon with a large enough movepool to include something that hurts Kyogre, as well as being a type that can defend against Kyogre's water spout and/or his thunder.

Check out the UberSect set of Parasect. Kyogre's ice beam will probably be able to take it down, as far as I can see, but it's the closest thing I've got for you. If you want to let go of your inhibiting NU-only clause (I mean, come on, 5 NU pokemon would be impressive enough), you could also try out Ludicolo, whose swift swim and grass typing would be an excellent way to scare Kyogre off.

Well, I just looked at a UU Pokemon I could use, and a choice band Torterra's Wood Hammer 1HKO's the bulkiest Kyogre possible. (Max Def/HP, defense boosting nature.) That'd also give me and electric immunity. Thoughts on where it could go? Also, I'll check out the Parasect set.

This team is just silly.

But to be even semi-viable you NEED a Quagsire(Kyogre beats you,period.)

Regardless Lati@s can beat this whole team and being limited to NU's you can't do anything to fix that.

Cool idea,but it will never work.

Lati@s hasn't been too much trouble thus far, actually. Bastiodon, Muk, and Relicanth have all taken one out by themselves at some point.

To be honest, I don't play Ubers at all, but it's nice to see other people using lower tiered poke's higher up.

Have you considered using a Licklicky? I don't really see the point of using Wailord when it's almost completely outclassed by Kyogre. It barely 2HKO's Groudon in the sun (according to my damage calculator..). I was thinking something like this:

Lickilicky @Choice Band
Own Tempo / Adamant Natured
252 HP / 212 ATK / 58 DEF (There may be a better spread for this)
Power Whip
Ice Punch
Explosion
-Filler- (Return, Knock Off, Toxic?, etc)

Power Whip 2HKO's Groudon if it doesn't miss, while Ice Punch 2HKO's Lati@s. However, they are both able to 2HKO you as well. If you don't want to take the chance of them attacking you, Explosion is there for you. It's so overwhelming that it's even able to OHKO Dialga.

And for Giga Drain on Muk, try Curse or maybe even Torment for Choice'd Pokes?

EDIT: I'm not sure how stall fends in Ubers, but if you're having trouble with Kyogre, try a Gastrodon-like set with Quagsire using Stockpile/Recover/Toxic/Earthquake over Entei.

I'll try those moves for Muk, and see how Lickilicky fares. I'll also try Quagsire instead of Entei, that water absorb sure could come in handy.

EDIT: Just a minor problem, Quagsire doesn't learn Recover. That's weird... Both the sets on Smogon list recover, but Shoddy Battle doesn't give the option.

 

[Enroyalle]

Instead of trying to counter Kyogre, you could try abusing its rain instead. Changing Relicanth's ability to Swift Swim and giving it a Choice Band can give you more speed and more power, although you miss out on that no-recoil Head Smash.. Just doing a "mental calc", I'm pretty darn sure a CB Stone Edge (or you could keep Head Smash and deal with recoil) would do more than a Scarf Head Smash.

@above Quagsire gets Recover from HGSS.

 

[Barbarossa]

Instead of trying to counter Kyogre, you could try abusing its rain instead. Changing Relicanth's ability to Swift Swim and giving it a Choice Band can give you more speed and more power

You're right, now Relicanth could 2HKO Kyogre by itself. I'll try that, too.

 

[HouseFantastic]

To use Recover, you have to make a new team and select the 'Smogon University' server to get access to HGSS moves.

 

[The Cicada]

quagsire could really fix your kyogre problem thanx to water absrob,encore and recover.

 

[Charistopher]

Parasect and Quagsire are going to be the best NU Kyogre counters.
Also try fitting Bibarel onto this team. Both of his abilities and most of its sets are great for stopping users trying to set up.

 

[Barbarossa]

DUDE. YOU GOT BALLS. I literally just HAVE to say that. I have no idea on how to help with such a team, but... you have my eternal respect. And I thought an OU team built around Pikachu was gutsy. I salute you.

Why thank you!

I'll test out Bibarel soon, but I need to try some other Quagsire sets first.

EDIT: Quagsire's Bulky water set is awesome at countering rain dance teams, and Relicanth does mad sweeps with Swift Swim and Choice Band. Adding that stuff to post #1

 

[pikmin]

great job man! I once used a ubers team with 4 no-ubers, and it was TOUGH!
I'd use arcanine over entei for sure! His special attack is higher and his speed is just a tad lower. He also has a little less bulk, but you could do extremspeed and flare blitz for more damage. for heatran you have.......dig or mud slap. Ouch. Nevermind.

 

[MetaNite]

I'm sorry, but your team is not competitive and overall will not succeed in the Ubers environment. Furthermore, it doesn't take "balls" to make a crappy team and click find tab on the Ubers ladder and then lose every game. This team's biggest weakness I see is probably offensive Groudon, who with Life Orb can OHKO at least half your team, and if it gets a Swords Dance you have no chance against it unless Wailord is at full health to Water Spout it. (Which by the way has its power reduced thanks to sun). You say that Water Spout "does the trick" against Lati@s but they both resist it, so I don't see what you mean by that as both can OHKO with Draco Meteor. Another Pokemon you are not getting past is Dragon Dance Rayquaza. Between Earthquake and Outrage your entire team is put in jeopardy with only Bastidon having a chance to Metal Burst Ray if it is locked into Outrage. MixGira-O will also give this team hell, as Draco Meteor hits everything hard, with again only Bastidon having the possibility of countering it. Also, nearly every Calm Minding Pokemon (Giratina, Mewtwo, Kyogre) will 6-0 you because you have no way to hit them hard enough nor have Pokemon to withstand their attacks. I would suggest Pokemon to fix these problems but these Pokemon just don't exist in NU. Please, just use Uber Pokemon in Ubers and keep the NeverUsed Pokemon in NU. I'm sure Serebii would love this team, maybe try there for additional help.

 

[Toaster]

Hello, I'm afraid this team is unable to work. Even though it catches the sense of suprise in Ubers. the majority of ubers will threaten this team. To give you some examples:

-Kyorge destroys your team utterly. The Majority of your team is unable to take anything from kyorge's attacks.
-Latias/Latios wreaks this team also. The only thing that would probably stand a chance is Bastiodon.
-Rock Polish Groudon. Once Wailord is gone You'll have a very hard time stopping this.

Those are just the few of ubers that wreaks your team, there are very few options considering you are limited to NU pokmon. Latias and Latios particularely. Also some of your options are unorthodox. Giga Drain Muk when you have better STAB and attack? Choice Scarf Reilcanth when it can't even outspeed Jolly Rayquaza? You should be running Swift Swim on it as the increase of speed plus the freedom of switching into attacks is better than Head Smash. An Entei without CM and without Toxic Support to utilize Protect? Curse Bastiodon with a Focus sash and Rest/Sleep Talk?

If you still want to keep the NU taste, use Quagsire. This will allow you to cover Choice Kyorge and the occasional Groudon. Parasect is another relatively decent pokemon to use courtesy of Dry Skin and Spore. It has Seed Bomb to nail Kyorge and Groudon. These are really your only options when you are limited to use NU pokemon. I honestly want to know how do you fare against these threats.

 

[Jibaku]

Okay I'll be straight and to the point - I heavily dislike this team, if because you posted an NU team for Ubers and expected to get help. As it stands, it violates this rule:

15. As a site dedicated to competitive battling, we request that your team is as competitive as possible within its given metagame. In-game teams and gimmick teams will be closed. Battle Tower teams are permitted. "Theme Teams" are also OK as long as they demonstrate an understanding of the competitive metagame they are to be used in.

However, I decided I would like to point out how incredibly weak this team is to the most common Ubers, because it's simply atrocious.

Mewtwo: Offensive Calm Mind versions can give a lot of trouble, being able to 2HKO Muk after a CM. It sets up freely on Bastiodon. Taunt + Calm Mind sets up easier, but it needs to wait for Muk to be weakened a bit
Mew: Okay I'll be honest, the only Pokemon it's going to have -some- troubles setting up on is Wailord. Otherwise, Nasty Plot + Rock Polish -> BP to Dialga = gg

Wobbuffet: It automatically kills Relicanth, Muk, and Wailord, while the rest are too weak to prevent it from Encoring and getting another mon to set up.
Ho-Oh:: You don't have any form of entry hazards. It gets a free switch in to Entei and occasionally Wailord (in sun) and Muk if it avoids Poison Jab on the switch. Relicanth gets mauled by Earthquake or gets burned by SF.
Lugia: Just be thankful it doesn't hurt you all that much but you do lack a reliable way to hurt it (Lugia outstalls Relicanth's Head Smashes...), and if it gets some entry hazards down you're gone

Latias and Latios: Sets up relatively easily and can cause a whole bunch of dents with Dragon Pulse / Thunder / Grass Knot. You need Regigigas/Wailord alive or you lose against this

Kyogre: flat out kills your team. Scarf Kyogre's Water Spout OHKOes every single member after Stealth Rock damage. RestTalkCM sets up on Entei, Muk, Wailord and Bastiodon, and you can't do anything against it except Selfdestruct with Wailord which doesn't even OHKO.As Kyogre is the #1 Uber in the metagame (usage-wise), I can't believe you didn't prepare for this
Groudon: Horray I spam Earthquake and you lose. You've got absolutely ZERO ground immunity or even resistance, and Relicanth, Bastiodon, and Entei are weak to it. Rock Polish Groudon is especially troublesome since it leaves your only chance to break it down is via Confuse Ray from Regigigas.

Also, Relicanth isn't a wallbreaker, because Head Smash isn't getting past Groudon.

Rayquaza: Sets up on Bastiodon / Wailord (that or it gets help from Wobb) and causes a lot of mess. Swords Dance Rayquaza can OHKO every member except Regigigas, and it doesn't help if Ray is setting up on Regi (via Wobb). Oh, and Relicanth fails to outspeed it, so it loses anyways.

Deoxys-S: Umm it sets up two layers on you?
Deoxys-A: Perhaps Muk can help you with this, but not for long. Also, it gets free switches on Bastiodon -_-
Deoxys-D: Same case with Lugia, except it gets three Spikes on you.

Palkia: Okay, in the rain, it can easily wash your team with Surf. Bye
Dialga: Oddly a lesser problem to your team in general, but Mixed Dialga can give a lot of issues as Bastiodon won't enjoy taking sun Fire Blasts/Brick Breaks
Giratina-O: Walls Regigigas and Wailord. The standard Mixed set doesn't give you a lot of trouble, but Sub Calm Mind eats your entire team alive.
Giratina: Calm Mind version walls your entire team, while Bastiodon's only chance of breaking through it is with the unreliable and easily PP stalled Metal Burst
Darkrai: You better keep Wailord alive if you want any sort of chance at fighting it, and it doesn't help if it's the lead with Focus Sash and Nasty Plot / Dark Void / Focus Blast / Dark Pulse that just runs over your entire team.
Garchomp: See: Groudon.
Shaymin-S: Earth Power / Seed Flare / Air Slash outright wipes your team.
Manaphy: In rain, it walls your entire team, sets up, and douses everything in a flash. Also, you can't even status it.


EDIT: Eh I have some free time so I'll tear apart your sets if you don't mind.

Wailord: Okay where are you battling? Who uses Lati@s leads? and who uses Swampert leads in Ubers? And why would you not have Ice Beam when the metagame is littered with Dragons?

Bastiodon: It sucks. You've got no attacking moves, and Focus Sash on a nonlead is stupid (unless its on Shedinja who is partly silly in the first place anyways) because entry hazards will wreck it. Thus, you're essentially playing without any items.

Regigigas: First of all, good luck stalling out those 5 turns. Second of all, Regigigas isn't even remarkably powerful after its SS turns are over.

Entei: -_-

Muk: Good luck actually hurting things with that (unless you hit them SE)

Relicanth: You don't even outrun Jolly Rayquaza what is this?

If you wish to go on with this type of team, a major overhaul must be done. Your team showed no basic knowledge of the metagame even, being utterly ripped apart by pretty much every single Uber.

And finally, we're not here to limit your creativity (before you even think about it). There is a line between creativity and stupidity.

Okay I decided to compile of list of NU Pokemon that may be usable in Ubers.

Quagsire
Jumpluff
Qwilfish
Shiftry
Primeape
Magneton (lol)

and maybe Ariados.

Have a nice day

 

[Shizzle]

I was just thinking, any sort of Groudon fucks over your WHOLE TEAM. 4 weaknesses to Ground, and no immunities/resist. Not to mention that Relicanth isn't going to do much with Waterfall thanks to Groudon's huge HP/Def AND Drought. Your only viable resist on this current team is Regigas, who can't do jack with Return or Fire Punch thanks to Slow Start, and can really only use Confuse Ray. lol

Using NU's in Ubers is only cool if you are actually making a somewhat competitive team, that is using pokemon with niche abilities/sets that can actually be effectively played with some reliability within the metagame. Your team doesn't even have basic synergy, let alone the power to take on or defeat even the most basic Uber teams.

 

[shrang]

Alright, I've been avoiding this team for a while now because it's just a gimmick. I mean seriously, I'm not sure if you'd even do well in NU with this team. You got way too many problems with this team so I'm not even going to bother trying to fix the whole thing. I'll just cover a few of your biggest weaknesses, Kyogre and Groudon, with NUs so you are happy. Replace Regigigas with Quagsire to at least have a chance to take on Kyogre:

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SpD
Nature: EDIT: Careful (Yeah sorry, I fucked up)
-Encore
-Toxic
-Recover
-Earthquake/Yawn

Now for Groudon, I'd suggest replacing Entei with Jumpluff:

Jumpluff @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 188 Def/68 SpD/252 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Sleep Powder
-Encore
-Substitute
-Leech Seed

Jumpluff reaches 700 Speed, enough to at least put Groudon to sleep and Leech Seed for fun.

Now, if you come back to me and still tell you're having trouble with Kyogre and Groudon, it's not my fault you've decided to use NUs against Ubers. You reap what you sow. These two Pokemon are at least checks now, unlike what you had before. I mean seriously, you may as well put up something like Belly Drum pass from Smeargle to Magikarp to try and sweep, at least that has somewhat of a chance to work, unlike your team at present.

Good luck.

 

[Barbarossa]

I'm sorry, but your team is not competitive and overall will not succeed in the Ubers environment. Furthermore, it doesn't take "balls" to make a crappy team and click find tab on the Ubers ladder and then lose every game.

Really? It seems to be doing just fine, to me. Maybe you should try it out before you come screaming to me about how shitty my team is.

Hello, I'm afraid this team is unable to work. Even though it catches the sense of surprise in Ubers. the majority of ubers will threaten this team.

I need to update post #1, but Quagsire has really helped my team by replacing Entei. Ice Beam has killed numerous foes, including Latias, Rayquaza, Garchomp, and others. and with Yawn I can get Kyogre to switch out if it shows up.

Alright, I've been avoiding this team for a while now because it's just a gimmick. I mean seriously, I'm not sure if you'd even do well in NU with this team.

Of course it doesn't do well in NU, it's not made for that metagame.

Anyway, I'll replace Regigigas with Jumpluff and see how that goes. Also, on the Bastiodon subject, Rest is used to get back to full health, afterwards, I can use metal burst repeatedly until the opponent attacks after setting up. Focus Sash will let me survive while they OHKO themselves. For example, against a Calm Mind Lati@s. I'll try Ice Beam on Wailord to replace Hydro Pump. I'm also going to try replacing Muk with Primeape, even though it breaks my pun.

 

[Jibaku]

Really? It seems to be doing just fine, to me. Maybe you should try it out before you come screaming to me about how shitty my team is.

I honestly wouldn't say that, because the truth is, your team falters against any decently built Uber team, assuming that we're going by the original team.

 

[Barbarossa]

The original team's been heavily modified. In fact, it used to be a UU team, that I simply moved up and began adapting.

 

[Jibaku]

Anyways, onto your current team:

The moveset for Quaggy is wrong. It should be Encore / Toxic / Recover / Yawn or Earthquake. Also, you absolutely need +SDef nature and Careful or Calm nature or Kyogre will eat it alive with Ice Beam. So no, your team hasn't countered Kyogre yet.

Swift Swim still doesn't help you against Ray btw, and Groudon completely walls Waterfall so don't even say it kills Groudon.

As of your current team, many of your problems I mentioned earlier remain

 

[The Cicada]

that quagsire definetly needs careful nature if it will be dealing with kyogre,carfeul over calm because calm will reduce eq's power right?
also replace the def evs with spD evs and kyogre cant do anything to quagsire

 

[Barbarossa]

Okay, editing Quagsire.

Whoops! Forgot about Air Lock. No, I don't suppose Relicanth does hit Rayquaza first. I'll do some damage calcs to see if I can usually get a hit in, at least.

It turns out that the only moves (at least on the smogon sets) that will OHKO Relicanth include Mixquaza's Draco Meteor, and a Choice Band Earthquake (Although that's only a 50% chance to OHKO.)

On the subject of Waterfall and Groudon, every standard set takes at least 60.7% damage from waterfall, a guaranteed 2HKO. The most defensive groudon possible only has an 11.1% chance to not be 2HKO'd. This is with a defense boosting nature and 252 defense EV's. Unfortunately, nearly half of the smogon groudon sets can OHKO Relicanth with an Earthquake. I see a weakness there, but hopefully Jumpluff can stop that. Needs more testing.

I'll test out Quagsire with this new information.

 

[Jibaku]

On the subject of Waterfall and Groudon, every standard set takes at least 60.7% damage from waterfall, a guaranteed 2HKO.

did you forget about Drought?

 

[Toaster]

I'll elaborate about this later:

On the subject of Waterfall and Groudon, every standard set takes at least 60.7% damage from waterfall, a guaranteed 2HKO. The most defensive groudon possible only has an 11.1% chance to not be 2HKO'd.

Uhh what Damage Calculator are you using? Did you assume this with sunshine? Since Groudon will always ruin your 2HKO with drought.

Choice Scarf Reilcanth vs rock Polish Groudon in the sun:22.8% - 27.6%

That certainly doesn't seem like a 2HKO to me...