And Electric type doesn't?It's probably worth pointing out at this point that for all the talk that "Ice is a great and common attacking type", almost nothing good gets STAB on Ice attacks, and even Mamoswine and Weavile are confined to using physical Ice moves, none of which is higher than base 75. For a Pokemon with naturally high SpD like Togekiss, Ice isn't such a bad weakness, since so few Pokemon can OHKO Togekiss with an Ice move.
Edit: Oh, by the way, even if Ground doesn't help all that much offensively with Zapdos or Rotom-a, it DEFINITELY helps with Jolteon, with is another big threat to Togekiss.
Jolteon has Volt Absorb, which stops any STAB attacks from an Electric CAP 11. STAB EQ on the other hand would destroy said Jolteon. And, once they see that Ground CAP 11, they switch out to something that resists EQ, not predicting the switch into Togekiss who then uses Air Slash or Aura Sphere on the Pokemon that switches in from Togekiss for, hopefully, neutral damage.And Electric type doesn't?
^ I agree with this user. ^ Fighting-type's traits benefit Togekiss more specifically than Ground does, as it lacks a complete immunity to Electric-type attacks Gyarados and the like crave.I thought I would be voting Ground, however my vote will go to Fighting for a few reasons.
Ground is definitely a great typing for Togekiss to be paired with, however the thing that really turns me off from Ground is that I fear it will be paired commonly with other Flying types as well. Who's to say that CAP 11 won't be paired with Gyarados because it covers a Rock and Electric weakness? If we want CAP 11 to beat Rotom-a because Togekiss is weak to Rotom-a, why not use it in tandem with Gyarados, who also suffers a weakness to it as well? I feel that Fighting is sufficient enough to get the rock resist down as well as have a nice STAB to use against pokemon like Blissey which Togekiss has trouble with, but not necessarily other Flyers in OU.
I fear that should we make this CAP Ground type, there is nothing really stopping it from using it in combination with something like Zapdos and succeeding even more than if it was paired with Togekiss. Zapdos has very similar synergy to Togekiss in that it is a special flyer who loses to things like Tyranitar and Blissey, also defensive variants of Rotom-a. We must be careful not to make this a perfect mate for both kinds of pokemon, and I feel Fighting will help with that. Fighting keeps the nice SR and Rock resist that will give a backbone to Togekiss, and not shift the attention away from Togekiss and onto something that would LOVE ground type perfect partners more, such as Gyarados.
Guys, vote what you really want to win, not for what the most popular choices are ~_~
We don't have to use STAB to take out Electric types. Ground may stop Electric in its tracks, but Jolteon can't hit an Electric type hard either with only Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball at its disposal. Basing on our secondary typing, an Electric CAP is just as capable of combating Jolteon as a Ground type is.Jolteon has Volt Absorb, which stops any STAB attacks from an Electric CAP 11. STAB EQ on the other hand would destroy said Jolteon. And, once they see that Ground CAP 11, they switch out to something that resists EQ, not predicting the switch into Togekiss who then uses Air Slash or Aura Sphere on the Pokemon that switches in from Togekiss for, hopefully, neutral damage.
Yet Electric is only effective against the semi-rare Flying and Waters barring Swampert and Ground is effective in forcing Steels, Rocks and Electrics to switch while also being immune to TWave on the switch-in. Try to imagine this:Togekiss is out. Opponent sends out Jolteon. You send out CAP 11 to take the TBolt. Ground CAP 11 takes no damage. Jolteon can either overpredict and stay and you can STAB EQ or Jolteon can switch into something effective against CAP 11 and you switch to Togekiss. The sent out Poke switches out into Jolteon to take the expected Air Slash and takes a Aura Sphere to the face. You then switch back into CAP 11 if Jolteon doesn't die and take another TBolt or stay in predicting the switch.We don't have to use STAB to take out Electric types. Ground may stop Electric in its tracks, but Jolteon can't hit an Electric type hard either with only Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball at its disposal. Basing on our secondary typing, an Electric CAP is just as capable of combating Jolteon as a Ground type is.
Ground also resists Rock and hits it for SE damage. As for hitting Ices, when was the last time you went up against an actual Ice type in OU? The point about Fighting/Flying everyone's saying might be good, except, oh wait, most Togekiss carry Aura Sphere!I picked Fighting. The rock resist is incredibly useful against Stealth Rock and the STAB is useful against the Rock and Ice types that Togekiss isn't a fan of. The offensive combo of Fighting and Flying as well as defensive is pleasing and hopefully the secondary type, which I hope to be either electric or rock, will only compliment the offensive and defense capabilities of the duo.
The fact is that Togekiss doesn't really mind Ice moves. While yes, Weavile can kill it, Weavile isn't exactly common enough to be a major problem. And anyway, if you switch a Fighter in on an Ice Punch it'll still take quite a bit. And EVEN if Weavile becomes more common due to this CAP, then that's what the rest of the team is for. We aren't trying to counter every little single thing. Oh, and about Tyranitar, Scarftar deals around 1/3 HP with Aqua Tail to Kiss, and Togekiss scares most Tars with Aura Sphere. If it isn't Scarftar, then it's not going to outspeed an Aura Sphere either. If the CAP is Ground, it can also threaten Tyranitar with EQuake(required move), and can switch in on it's Stone Edges.Ground is plain unattractive to me seeing as Ice-type moves were already used frequently to counter Dragons and Weavile can trap with Pursuit or hit hard with stab Ice Punch or Ice Shard while Tyranittar can carry Aqua Tail for CAP11 and Stone Edge for Togekiss while trapping as well.
But now, Togekiss doesn't have to carry Aura Sphere and can instead use another coverage move.Ground also resists Rock and hits it for SE damage. As for hitting Ices, when was the last time you went up against an actual Ice type in OU? The point about Fighting/Flying everyone's saying might be good, except, oh wait, most Togekiss carry Aura Sphere!
The whole point of Aura Sphere/Air Slash is that it enables kiss to hit basically anything not named Rotom for at least neutral damage. If you have to spend a turn switching to use a Fighting move, then not only does Togekiss have to take another switch in into what's likely SR, but it you also give the opponent time to switch to a resist/attack and severely weaken your Fighting type. Even worse, any NP boost you may of gained from the thing is basically never usable by Togekiss again unless they both have Baton Pass, and even then you're still setting yourself up for extra damage.But now, Togekiss doesn't have to carry Aura Sphere and can instead use another coverage move.
Ever hear of the 4 slot syndrome? Having that Aura Sphere slot freed up thanks to a fighting type partner is a huge benefit to Togekiss. As for ice types in OU, last time I saw them was a long time ago, but the better a ground type CAP11 does the more likely Ice type moves which a myriad of pokemon have and Ice type pokemon will appear. I'd rather go with the option that won't make it a problem in the long run.Ground also resists Rock and hits it for SE damage. As for hitting Ices, when was the last time you went up against an actual Ice type in OU? The point about Fighting/Flying everyone's saying might be good, except, oh wait, most Togekiss carry Aura Sphere!
I don't mean to pick on you, but this is a response to a lot of points being made or presumptions people seem to have with regards to Fighting over Ground.Ever hear of the 4 slot syndrome? Having that Aura Sphere slot freed up thanks to a fighting type partner is a huge benefit to Togekiss. As for ice types in OU, last time I saw them was a long time ago, but the better a ground type CAP11 does the more likely Ice type moves which a myriad of pokemon have and Ice type pokemon will appear. I'd rather go with the option that won't make it a problem in the long run.
The only type that goes better with Flying is maybe Water. Aura Sphere is a GOOD MOVE. Togekiss is not forced to use it with her movepool but does cuz it kicks ass!
Also, the main problem people have with the Fighting type is Rotom-A, but an ability exists in Pokemon called Scrappy which takes care of that, though with a move like sucker punch on CAP11 to use against offensive varients and with the slot previously used for Aura Sphere freed up Togekiss can use Shadow Ball for the resttalk variety which won't outspeed.
Ground + Mold Breaker. I can play this game too, it's not a good game to play here as it should hold little bearing on decisions at this point.
A fighting type will be far from "trying to counter every little thing". Pokemon like Jirachi and Zapdos still cause problems for a fighting CAP11 and Togekiss, but a Ground CAP would also have it's short comings. I just feel that when we get to the later stages of creating this pokemon that Fighting as a primary type will give us alot more open possibilities seeing as it has diversity while the ground type is a one trick pony, EQ or EP.
I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but I'll stick by my opinion until the results and the votes prove me wrong.
There will be another poll, this one is too close. But you shouldn't let a poll decide if you are right, you'd best not vote if you are that unsure of your own opinion
Like I said, I probably have no idea what I'm talking about.I don't mean to pick on you, but this is a response to a lot of points being made or presumptions people seem to have with regards to Fighting over Ground.
Since Steel appears to be out of the running, my support has moved to Fighting for this reason. On top of the Rock resistance, it's more specific to Togekiss that Ground is. We absolutely don't need something meant to absorb TBolts, we need something meant to be a good partner to Kiss. As for arguments that we don't need another Fighting CAP, that's kind of irrelevant to what would make the best Perfect Mate to Togekiss, and it doesn't necessarily have to fail at hitting Ghosts or Electrics. Payback or Pursuit and Earthquake would be sufficient unSTABed.I cannot accept Ground as a decision. Ground helps other Flyers more than Togekiss. Paralysis absorption is acceptable, but Electric-type absorption is not IMO.