Only because of the guessing game you have to play on which move they are going to use. Knowing the mon Wynaut is switching into isn't mixed makes it easier and the Custap Berry helps ease the prediction with a quick Destiny Bond for the Pokemon they choose to try and revenge kill with.
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Wynaut?
- Thread starter eric the espeon
- Start date
maybe because wobbuffet is a better option in ubers ?_?
Wynaut is too powerful. It can easily come in on a slow pokemon (common among stall teams) and encore a support move. spam tickle 6 times. switch to <powerful pursuiter> and then bam 1 wall is dead. after that it doesnt really matter because with one wall gone there is lots of room for lots of pokemon to set up. it basically negates a whole playstyle in and of itself, unless you are going to start putting shed shell on every single member of a team just to counter wynaut.
also, as far as GS and Tmons posts go about Custap being extremely powerful. I can attest to that. X__X You can bring Wynaut and Wobb on a team and basically get 2 kills (or more) if they both have Custap berries. it is v. strong................
Wynaut is too slow to encore a support move unless you invest A LOT in speed. And if you do that it loses a huge chunk of it's already barely viable defenses. Most players would rather be encored into an attacking move rather than a support move as Wynaut could just sit there and drain it's pp with continuously encoring the move or switching to a set up sweeper.
Using Reachzero's spread, Wynaut's already barely decent defenses can pull off a max of 4 tickles off of the standard Spiker Skarmory assuming it DOESN'T encore and starts to tickle the first turn, which admittedly is definitely not bad. But if it does encore first, it can only get off one or two max before dying to Brave Bird, and it's probably not going to be tickling anything to max unless they use a non-attacking move on Wynaut which most intelligent players would probably not do. Of course you could use counter on Skarmory however :).
Most Skarmorys will just taunt you and make Wynaut useless. Really, Wynaut is so slow I've never been able to pull off an encore in the context people talk about Wobbeffet. I only encore if the opponent is trying to be a smartass and spamming thunderwave or protect, or some sort of set up move in order to avoid counter/mirror coat. If I can successfully encore their set up move then great, I react accordingly, but the problem comes in when they attack the turn I encore, because a lot of the time Wynaut is 2HKO'd so I can't mirror coat/counter the second turn before I die (although it can still be used to set up a sweeper of course). The worst is when Wynaut is left in the 26%-40% range after a hit because then I likely won't be able to pull off a custap destiny bond or encore. He's not as consistant or brokenly good as Wobbuffet but can definatly pull his weight for you when you use him right.
Its pretty hard to test wynaut on PO. I got DQed in a OU-Tournament on the Team Uber server with the comment "Wynaut is OU, but only after you got DQed". Obviously thats not because my opponent was a mod...
Back to topic: I used Wynaut in a heavy offense team to set up my sweepers. Wynaut gets a kill nearly every Game, but most times I cant set up my sweepers after the kill (I normall y don't use encore because Wynaut ist to frail and if I use counter the next poke kills me and I cant set up my sweeper. stupid sentence :( )
However, it does a great job at revengin Scizor and Scarfgons/Scarfrachis who can be a big problem to HO.
Nobody plays stall on PO, so i can't tell you how good wynaut against stall is.
Back to topic: I used Wynaut in a heavy offense team to set up my sweepers. Wynaut gets a kill nearly every Game, but most times I cant set up my sweepers after the kill (I normall y don't use encore because Wynaut ist to frail and if I use counter the next poke kills me and I cant set up my sweeper. stupid sentence :( )
However, it does a great job at revengin Scizor and Scarfgons/Scarfrachis who can be a big problem to HO.
Nobody plays stall on PO, so i can't tell you how good wynaut against stall is.
I have a bit less luck than you then, because stall is nearly all I run into on PO.
I can attest to Wynaut's effectiveness at taking down a troublesome sweeper/scarfer, but let me tell you something: I'm reminded quickly on why it's banned for a reason. Being able to kill a scarfer is one thing, but that Custap Destiny Bond really seems to make it broken. You literally cannot revenge it with anything but Uturn, and if you try to fake it out with a support/boost move, it'll Encore and Tickle you. Then comes the Pursuiter like Scarftar.
The key is to send out a foe who could do either. If your opponent guesses wrong, he is SCREWED.
Also, I see Bug Bite being VERY effective against it.
You cannot. Destiny Bond lasts until a different move is selected, so Wynaut literally has nothing to fear if you fake it out once by doing, say, Swords Dance. Even if you strike it then and are still faster, Destiny Bond kicks in, and if you SD again, Wynaut can Encore and give a switch-in a free turn to set up something like SD Lucario.
Wouldn't the trick just be to send in something with a priority move, since it will still go before custap destiny bond
ITT: You choose what to send out against Wynaut.
And if you mean to revenge-kill Wynaut: A priority move is generally not hard to see coming. Wynaut can move out of the way, and come back later for the custap D-Bond.
Custop activates at the beginning of the attack turn, not when health drops below 25%.
BurningMan
fueled by beer
according to bulbapedia and smogon it is a pinch berry so you need to be under 25% health to use it.
[ ] Understood the quoted post.Smogon said:
[ ] Having read your own sources.
Choose one.
Why not test Wynaut? it will get a few KOs, maybe.. If you ask me, it's no more dangerous than a Dugtrio which will probably net more KOs overall and end up supporting your team a lot more in the long run. It seems silly to compare the two, but they're similar in thier abilities, both being uncounterable in a way and Dugtrio is certainly not overpowered in the least.
It's no where near the beast that it's evolution is, I say test it. It'd probably end up in UU anyways. It's just not going to be able to fufill it's support role like Wob.
It's no where near the beast that it's evolution is, I say test it. It'd probably end up in UU anyways. It's just not going to be able to fufill it's support role like Wob.
BurningMan
fueled by beer
sorry misunderstood what you wanted to say thought you stated that custap isnt a pinch berry, but i get it now.
You can still have certain Pokemon beat Dugtrio or switch out of it. Wynaut traps everything and is able to kill nearly anything for it. If we do test Wynaut, I would like if it remains Uber. It is a guaranteed kill unless the user really mispredicts or the opponent has a mixed set or something.
I'm just throwing out my opinion is all. It plays exactly the same as Wobbuffet, but without the bulk to Encore and give a switch-in a free turn.
Well why not putting it on the suspect ladder?
Its not a de-ban and we could see how it fares in the OU metagame without screwing the ladder over.
Its not a de-ban and we could see how it fares in the OU metagame without screwing the ladder over.
It does not play the same as Wobbuffet at all. Wobbuffet can act as a potent revenge killer if needed, netting some times even 2 KOs. You can even predict choice moves with Wob and switch it in, get the kill and switch back out. Wynaut will not be doing this any time soon. Which pokemon can switch out of and or kill Dugtrio, considering it will only be switching in on things it can trap and kill when used by a competent battler. Where Wob can score atleast one KO, support a team member in setting up or even disrupt a support pokemon, Wynaut will die most of the time and in general be a one trick pony.
in my small experiences of using Wynaut on the ladder, 90% of the time, one of two things happens.
1. I send it in on a setup move, they use it again, i encore, and i get a free setup turn
2. They complain about it being uber and 1 happens anyway
Therefore, id say PO isnt the greatest place to test Wynauts brokeness
1. I send it in on a setup move, they use it again, i encore, and i get a free setup turn
2. They complain about it being uber and 1 happens anyway
Therefore, id say PO isnt the greatest place to test Wynauts brokeness
In a few experiences I've been using Wynaut I'm seeing that Pokemon like Infernape are doing more damage to stall teams than Wynaut is. Running Custap Wynaut with Destiny Bond, Encore and CounterCoat seems to be one of the the best thing the little bugger can do. Even resisted attacks to tons of damage to it unless you forgo speed for defense, and if you do that you're missing important outspeeds like Blissey.
Wynaut is frail enough that it hardly gets to countercoat, it's so slow it takes little extra bulk it has away to outspeed anything so Encore isn't as useful either, its ability to Tickle, Safeguard, or Destiny Bond (even with Custap) is severly limited by the fact that it's difficult to stay alive.
Wynaut on his own is pretty bad. Coupling him with something like NP ape setting up on Blissey Wish Encores or something is what people are looking for in Wynaut, I understand, but he's not like Wob. You can't Mindlessly do this multiple times like with Wob. You can do it once a game, and you has to be careful about it. That's the big difference. He can only come in on REALLY slow walls or ones with no real attack power (only an attackless Skarmory comes to mind for that second part, though) and use them as set up bait, either that or on someone stupid enough to use a non-damaging move on you. He's just so limited on how to get an approach on a free move for a switch-in compared to Wob.
I'm not seeing reasons to keep Wynaut Uber so far. You're either too slow to do anything but can take two hits, or too frail to take two hits but fast enough to lock a wall into a move. Maybe Wynaut could be fun on a Trick Room team or something, but even that doesn't sound plausible.
Wynaut is frail enough that it hardly gets to countercoat, it's so slow it takes little extra bulk it has away to outspeed anything so Encore isn't as useful either, its ability to Tickle, Safeguard, or Destiny Bond (even with Custap) is severly limited by the fact that it's difficult to stay alive.
Wynaut on his own is pretty bad. Coupling him with something like NP ape setting up on Blissey Wish Encores or something is what people are looking for in Wynaut, I understand, but he's not like Wob. You can't Mindlessly do this multiple times like with Wob. You can do it once a game, and you has to be careful about it. That's the big difference. He can only come in on REALLY slow walls or ones with no real attack power (only an attackless Skarmory comes to mind for that second part, though) and use them as set up bait, either that or on someone stupid enough to use a non-damaging move on you. He's just so limited on how to get an approach on a free move for a switch-in compared to Wob.
I'm not seeing reasons to keep Wynaut Uber so far. You're either too slow to do anything but can take two hits, or too frail to take two hits but fast enough to lock a wall into a move. Maybe Wynaut could be fun on a Trick Room team or something, but even that doesn't sound plausible.
Wynaut really isnt supposed to be running any speed, much like Wobbuffet in ubers, where speed is only mentioned in the extra section, and een then its frowned upon.
Also, trick room has much better things to be doing in its 5 turns then using Wynaut
when i played with wynaut on PO ( i used reachzero's spread) i found it extrememly diffucult to get into custap zone....most attack done ~60% to him and any other attack wiped him out...although i have had my fair share of kills with him. although i would say he should be used in a team without reasons to destroy scarfer/bander =/
Dugtrio can't revenge scarvers with CounterCoat. And Dugtrio can't trap non-grounded Pokemon. And Dugtrio has much worse HP. And Dugtrio can't use Encore or Custap Destiny Bond.
